Best and worst dads in Fire Emblem

[Rezzy]

*comes out of corner*

Well actually that was quite common in the Ottoman Empire; the Sultan knew that if his heir had competition it would lead to a civil war every time the Sultan died, so he had all competition killed. This practice was ended by Selim II, however, which many historians believe contributed to the Empire's decline.

Killing off all potential rivals can easily backfire. People died unexpectedly all the time. The heir and a spare mentality was much more common. Having no heir was much worse than having two. In England, the Norman Conquest, the Stephen-Matilda Civil War, and the English break from the Catholic Church were all triggered in part due to the lack of an heir.

I take great pride in the fact that I have produced a male heir already. The nation is saved!

Edited June 2, 2016 by Rezzy

[Rend Keaven]

The only good thing I'll say about Desmond is that his neglectful acts were the catalysts that lead to the rise of one of the best villain's in the series.

[blah the Prussian]

Killing off all potential rivals can easily backfire. People died unexpectedly all the time. The heir and a spare mentality was much more common. Having no heir was much worse than having two. In England, the Norman Conquest, the Stephen-Matilda Civil War, and the English break from the Catholic Church were all triggered in part due to the lack of an heir.

I take great pride in the fact that I have produced a male heir already. The nation is saved!

Well yeah but the Ottoman practice was to do it right before Ascension. It's also important that European culture had established succession laws, while Turkish culture still borrowed some elements of their steppe horde ancestors, such as no hereditary rule, but rather the strong survive. I think history has shown which is better.

Regarding villain fathers, I actually think Arvis does a decent job; he's faced with essentially Rosemary's baby and he still does his best to protect his daughter and people from his possessed son. The possession is hardly his fault, either.

[Sunwoo]

Desmond for the worst, no contest. Even Garon had a reason (no matter how contrived and shitty it is) for being a bad father. I can even overlook He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named on account of not being human. Desmond has no excuse. He's just a human who tried to murder his son because he's jealous that Zephiel is the perfect prince and he was an average person. Even if he did not love Zephiel's mother, and even if he adored his daughter and was a good father to her, he's still a shitty ass father because he is an ordinary man who's not being controlled or manipulated by anyone, and his primary motivation in offing Zephiel is jealousy over his potential. I mean … Zephiel in his youth was basically the son any parent would want, and you're going to kill him over it?! The fuck.

Eliwood for the best. He's a great guy and he doesn't die. What more can you ask for?

[Shadowess]

garcia is a great father i love him and ross

worst father is fe14 dads you threw ur kids in the babyrealms good job

truthfully i don't know have an opinion on the worst father.

[The Draco Knight]

Surrogate fathers count, yes. And remember, they don't have to be the absolute best or worst father, just an example of a father whose terribleness or excellence as a father stood out to you.

And I can think of a villain father who was actually a good dad: Lyon's father whose name escapes me.

Lyon's father is named Vigarde.

Btw, about Fates parents: I can't actually blame for what they did to the children considering they only wanted to protect them from the war. Plus, the parents also try to pass more time with their children.

Anyway, I think a good father in the series is(don't open if you haven't played Revelations and Hidden truths 1 and 2)

human Anankos: he really loved Corrin and he even took the trouble to send three heroes from another world to help him; also, even if he didn't knew nothing about her, he sacrificed himself to save Lilith, hjs daughter, from his insane, altough he knew that It would kill him

A

A bad father in the series is Chrom, Lissa and Emmeryn'father: he begun a war because of his lust of power; this bought both Ylisse and Plegia to hate not only him, but also his daughter Emmeryn(at least at the beginning of her reign)

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Brom is a great example, I'm surprised he hasn't been mentioned more. You can tell through all of his dialogue and supports how much he loves his wife and kids.

Greil and Largo are a couple more good dads from Tellius.

Elibe has a bunch of good dads, too. Elbert, Eliwood, Bartre, Hawkeye, Hector, Pent (although with how spoiled Clarine is one could question that, but I'd say Klein shows he's a good dad), Douglas (if I remember right, isn't he Lalum's adoptive father?)...even Brendan Reed is supposedly good before being brainwashed by Sonia.

And in Magvel, you have Garcia and King Hayden. Fado and Vigarde were said to be good before their deaths, too.

Chrom is another good dad. I'd list more Awakening characters, but Chrom is really the only one we know canonically had a kid, so...

Dheginsea and Desmond are both terrible fathers. And if Ashnard knew who his son was, he would have been a bad dad too. Nergal could have been a good dad, but he kinda went crazy and tried to kill his kids. Chrom's dad was terrible, too.

Canas would have been a good dad, but he died and didn't really get to raise his son.

[Lethal Llama]

A lot of people are saying Desmond, but I think that Validar just edges him out as worse. Both try to kill their children, which puts them at the top. But Validar only had Robin with the intention of sacrificing him/her, whereas Desmond, for all that he was horrendous, clearly didn't have Zephiel with the intention of killing him. I mean, his reasoning for trying to kill him pretty much implies that he never wanted him in the first place, which is slightly better than purposely having a child so you can kill them later.

As for best, I'd agree with the general consensus of Eliwood, Chrom, Hector, and Brom. All pretty great dads.

[Katie]

Vigarde, that was his name! Thanks.

Oh, and I find Geese and Geitz's father to be an interesting one to place. While he was certainly not the best morally, having had slaves he treated like dirt, there's nothing to suggest he wasn't a good father, and Geitz himself admits he loved his father and enjoyed spending time with him before he found out about the whole slaves thing, not to mention Geese grew up to be a good person, one who even seemed opposed to slavery given his desire to help free the Western Isles, so I'd say their father is an example of a bad person but a surprisingly good father.

Another villain who was actually a good father would be Jill's dad, Shiharam. He may be on the bad guys' side, but he and Jill clearly care about each other deeply and she'll even defect to his side if you have her talk to him without fulfilling certain requirements, and he doesn't even seem to be a bad person, just someone who sadly doesn't realize the people he's working for are evil. He's more of a victim of circumstances, really.

[BrightBow]

Best: Hannibal

He unambiguously loves his adopted kid just like a biological father should. Finn seems to have adopted Nanna too but there is still some ambiguity about her biological father and he seems rather uncooperative when Nanna wants to know about her mother. Not to mention that as a knight he would put his liege before his kids. Unfortunately for Hannibal and his son, his unconditional love means that the kid makes for a good hostage. He also doesn't seem to try to force his legacy on his son, seeing how his son is a priest and not a warrior. He seems perfectly fine with letting the kid go his own way.

Worst: Garon

Desmond is not the only dad who tries to have his kid killed. Considering how awful that is, you really need to dig deep in order to find a tie breaker. And I would say that compared to Gauron, Desmond has at least one tiny little thing going for him: He is at least honest. He makes it clear that he hates his son and considers him a thorn in his side. Garon meanwhile pretends that he gives a damn about his kids. That's bad enough but he can't even be bothered to put any kind of effort into his deception. He respects his kids so little that he thinks he can just act like the worst puppy kicker ever and throw evil laughs around without one of them thinking: "Gee, my father is an evil, sociopathic and unpredictable monster. Maybe I need to take drastic action and remove him from power somehow, before he kills my beloved siblings or me."

Edited June 2, 2016 by BrightBow

[Etrurian emperor]

I think Muarim deserves some mentions as a great dad. He took Tormod in and raised him as his own without any particular reason to do so. Despite their bond Muarin is still concerned about limiting Tormod's world and does encourage him to make more human friends.

For the worst I'd nominate Reptor. I hear Desmond and Garon come up a lot and rightfully so. But the thing about them is: Desmond doesn't care about Zephiel and has never done so. Garon also never shows he hold any kind of attachment to his children.

Its brief but Reptor does indicate that he loves Tiltyu. He's clearly upset about having to fight her...and then still tells Tiltyu that she should just go and die for their house.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Geez, it's so much easier to think of bad dads. Anyway, here we go:

BAD DADS!

Desmond doesn't ride a horse, to my knowledge, but if he did it would've been beaten to death by now.

Everyone seems to forget that Nergal is a dad too. One who succumbs to darkness, tries to use his children to end the world, and then orchestrates the death of his own daughter, which he feels fantastic about.

...Actually, the same thing roughly applies to Validar, too.

Lord Darin leaves his jerk-of-a-son Erik to die, making him an even bigger jerk.

QUESTIONABLE DADS!

Lord Hausen (Lyn's grandfather) seems to have truly cared for his daughter Madelyn, yet decried her love for Hassar, pushing her away.

Canas died protecting his wife and son... after abandoning them in favor of a quest for knowledge.

Leo initially disapproves of Forrest's appearance and behavior, making him an absent father (even for Fates), but he comes to accept his child after Forrest's paralogue.

GOOD DADS!

Douglas. He has a really sweet and heartfelt support set with Lalum.

Mustafa fights the Chrompany against his own wishes, in order to protect his family from Gangrel's fury.

Fuga is pretty good too, I guess. He passes on his knowledge and skills to Hayato, and they get along really well.

For the worst, I'd say pretty much the whole cast of Fates. The whole idea of abandoning one's children in the babyrealm is abhorrent to me.

For best? King Garon, hands down.

1: He adopts a child mere seconds after seeing their father get killed by a volley of arrows.

2: He gives Corrin his/her own castle to grow up in.

3: He gives Corrin a nifty heirloom sword.

4: He arranged a trip for Corrin to visit his/her birth mother, when said mother hasn't bothered to visit in years.

5: He sends Corrin out on missions to learn valuable life lessons.

I nominate Garon for Father of the Year.

Don't forget, he also

6. Prays for Corrrin,

7. Spends a quality evening with Corrin at the finest theater in the land,

8. Provides Corrin with a powerful and ruggedly handsome bodyguard,

9. Entrusts Corrin with major responsibilites, and

10. To his dying breath, he helps Corrin and friends grow stronger.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate

[Katie]

Nergal seems like he was actually a good father at first, and in fact only turned to dark magic because he wanted to open the Dragon's Gate and reclaim his children, but unfortunately got corrupted by the dark magic to the point where he forgot why he even wanted to open it in the first place, turning him into the bad father we see in FE7.

[Rezzy]

People say Leo is a bad father, although I think people give him a hard time. I hate the baby realm deadbeats, but that's beside the point.

He's had a knee jerk reflex to seeing his son not turn out as he'd like. Now for Forrest, this has been a lifetime, but for Leo? It's been a few days. He hasn't had time to adjust and take it in. In my experience, these things can be a tender subject, and sometimes, you need to give parents a little time, and more often than not, they'll come around and decide they still love you.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Rezzy

[Jagen]

Wow, I'm downright shocked to hear that nobody even brought of Jiol as the worst dad in the series. The guy kills not just his 1st wife, but his 2nd wife as well leaving Sheema to grow up motherless. It doesn't help that the game goes on to portray him as a disgusting cowardly man who kills, kidnaps, and rapes woman and children through out the events of fe12. All the while effectively leaving his entire kingdom(gra) alone without a king so his daughter has to take while simultaneously being hated by her people just for being related to the guy.

I would also like the say that Judah from Gaiden could easily be among the list of worst dads with the way he tries to sacrifice his three daughters to summon the crazed god of darkness, Duma, but most people probably doesn't even know who he is.

[NinjaMonkey]

Best: Shiharam Fizzart

Worst: Canas

Worst: Garon

Desmond is not the only dad who tries to have his kid killed. Considering how awful that is, you really need to dig deep in order to find a tie breaker. And I would say that compared to Gauron, Desmond has at least one tiny little thing going for him: He is at least honest. He makes it clear that he hates his son and considers him a thorn in his side. Garon meanwhile pretends that he gives a damn about his kids. That's bad enough but he can't even be bothered to put any kind of effort into his deception. He respects his kids so little that he thinks he can just act like the worst puppy kicker ever and throw evil laughs around without one of them thinking: "Gee, my father is an evil, sociopathic and unpredictable monster. Maybe I need to take drastic action and remove him from power somehow, before he kills my beloved siblings or me."

I was under the impression that the Garon we see isn't the real one, but some kind of monster doppleganger, and that the real one died ages ago.

Edited June 3, 2016 by NinjaMonkey

[blah the Prussian]

Shiharam is a good father? Really? I don't buy it. He fled Begnion because he hated the corruption of the Senate; that's fair. But was it really the best choice for his daughter's moral development to flee to the FE equivalent of Nazi Germany? Remember, Jill is still racist when you recruit her, implying that Shiharam didn't teach her to not be racist himself. That's pretty obviously bad parenting.

[Jotari]

Shiharam is a good father? Really? I don't buy it. He fled Begnion because he hated the corruption of the Senate; that's fair. But was it really the best choice for his daughter's moral development to flee to the FE equivalent of Nazi Germany? Remember, Jill is still racist when you recruit her, implying that Shiharam didn't teach her to not be racist himself. That's pretty obviously bad parenting.

Well if we can forgive Jill for her sheltered up bringing in regards to the Laguz why would we condemn Shiharm? I doubt he had the same exposure to laguz as Jill managed to get. Sure he might have had a little more exposure to the world having lived in two countries but I doubt Begnion is much better when it comes to racism than Daein (especially before Sanaki started trying to reform things). They are the people that committed the Serenes Massacre after all. Sure he might have been a better person if he could look past his society's social conditioning but I can't really say it makes him a bad father for not doing so. There's also the very real possibility (unless I'm forgetting optional conversations that say otherwise) he felt absolutely ambivalent towards the laguz and didn't care about them one way or the other, leaving Jill's racism to come from many of the other facets of society that influence people.

Also I don't think anyone's mentioned it so far so I'm going to bring up Naga and give him the reward for most neutral parent in the series (assuming He is a He sometimes which I personally like to assume). He clearly loved Tiki but still denied her a childhood, though for a pretty valid concern. On the same note Bantu seems to be a pretty great surrogate. I think some flavor text in FE3 or 12 suggests Tiki would grow to resent Naga for his actions, that would have been a nice thing to see in Awakening had Awaekning actually utlizied Tiki as a character in any meaningful way.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Jotari

[blah the Prussian]

Well if we can forgive Jill for her sheltered up bringing in regards to the Laguz why would we condemn Shiharm? I doubt he had the same exposure to laguz as Jill managed to get. Sure he might have had a little more exposure to the world having lived in two countries but I doubt Begnion is much better when it comes to racism than Daein (especially before Sanaki started trying to reform things). They are the people that committed the Serenes Massacre after all. Sure he might have been a better person if he could look past his society's social conditioning but I can't really say it makes him a bad father for not doing so. There's also the very real possibility (unless I'm forgetting optional conversations that say otherwise) he felt absolutely ambivalent towards the laguz and didn't care about them one way or the other, leaving Jill's racism to come from many of the other facets of society that influence people.

Huh, I thought he was explicitly anti racist. I still think he loses points for not leaving Daein when someone as obviously batshit insane as Ashnard came to power, though that's probably because I dislike the Camus in general.

[Jotari]

Huh, I thought he was explicitly anti racist. I still think he loses points for not leaving Daein when someone as obviously batshit insane as Ashnard came to power, though that's probably because I dislike the Camus in general.

Well he might have been confirmed as racist, I just personally can't recall any instances of it. It's not a core aspect of his character at least. Most of his dialogue revolved around how much he cared for his underlings from my recollection.

[blah the Prussian]

Well he might have been confirmed as racist, I just personally can't recall any instances of it. It's not a core aspect of his character at least. Most of his dialogue revolved around how much he cared for his underlings from my recollection.

Yeah, fair enough. Still, though, I'd consider staying in Ashnard's Daein to be putting his daughter in danger.

[Katie]

Also I don't think anyone's mentioned it so far so I'm going to bring up Naga and give him the reward for most neutral parent in the series (assuming He is a He sometimes which I personally like to assume). He clearly loved Tiki but still denied her a childhood, though for a pretty valid concern. On the same note Bantu seems to be a pretty great surrogate. I think some flavor text in FE3 or 12 suggests Tiki would grow to resent Naga for his actions, that would have been a nice thing to see in Awakening had Awaekning actually utlizied Tiki as a character in any meaningful way.

Naga has always been depicted as female whenever she actually appears in a game, i.e., in FE11-13. It's possible she can take on many forms though, but I think the reason for her sometimes being called male is because she's referred to as the Divine Dragon King in the Japanese games, but the thing is, King is a gender neutral term in Japanese.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Finn canonically had bad influence to Leif, but damn if he isn't a "good" father

EDIT: Actually no Eliwood is probably the best father lol. He doesn't fucking die, and the game explicitly mentioned that the war would be one sided if the greatest knight of Lycia take the matter in his own hand. Badass

Edited June 3, 2016 by JSND

[Jotari]

Naga has always been depicted as female whenever she actually appears in a game, i.e., in FE11-13. It's possible she can take on many forms though, but I think the reason for her sometimes being called male is because she's referred to as the Divine Dragon King in the Japanese games, but the thing is, King is a gender neutral term in Japanese.

I found the way Naga was described in Genaology of the Holy War as "taking the form of a young maiden" (or something to that effect) as indicative that it was noteworthy (beyond the fact that's it's a bloody dragon). I reckon there's enough ambiguity at least that I can make an assumption. Mainly because I find the all benevolent goddess archetype pretty over used in video games. COming to think of it I should probably add that to the head canon thread active at the moment.

[Katie]

I found the way Naga was described in Genaology of the Holy War as "taking the form of a young maiden" (or something to that effect) as indicative that it was noteworthy (beyond the fact that's it's a bloody dragon). I reckon there's enough ambiguity at least that I can make an assumption. Mainly because I find the all benevolent goddess archetype pretty over used in video games. COming to think of it I should probably add that to the head canon thread active at the moment.

I think Naga might have said something in Awakening about being able to take many forms, iirc, but cba to look it up.