Why do people hate Awakening's story?

[Sunwoo]

I can't think of a single thing Mikoto did any better than Emmeryn.

Mikoto didn't walk her ass back to the palace that she knows is unsafe after learning that an entire squadron of pegasus knights sacrificed themselves for her so that she could escape.

Mikoto didn't spout pretty garbage off a rock and commit suicide because she's a weak as fuck ruler.

Mikoto wasn't as much of a slap in the face to characters like Elincia, Eirika, and Eliwood by being hailed as a martyr and a saint for being a terrible queen.

Don't get me wrong. Mikoto is a lot of wasted potential. But at least she's not as much of an insult to previous FE characters as Emmeryn is.

[The Geek]

Also, we know Mikoto far less than Emmeryn by the time she dies, and Corrin somehow reacts to a practical stranger dying by immediately going Super Saiyan, compared to the Awakening cast who basically went through the five stages of grief? (slight exaggeration but you get the point)

I thought it was implied that quite a bit of time occurs between Chapters 4 and 5 in Fates?

[Augestein]

that feel when i got plegia and grimleal mixed up because there is literally no telling the two apart from each other in the story.

i honestly feel embarrassed, but its not like the game made an effort to go "hey not all plegian's worship grimleal, except they apparently do except for the two that join you"

Well considering how little the game does to discern them, it's no wonder. By part 2, the ruler of Plegia IS Grimleal, and Aversa, a character that is with a Plegian is suddenly with a Grimleal. So really, this is one of those "show don't tell sort of things" where no one really flat out says that aren't one and the same.

[Original Alear]

The story felt like it should've been three separate games. Everything felt horribly rushed, which didn't give the story enough time to truly develop the characters.

What characters were missing time to develop? I think they were just developed badly and melodramatically.

i think the real issue with the plegia thing is that by the end of the day chrom's dad was entirely justified.

if he actually did kill them all then the plot of the game would not have happened, so in a round a bout way ylisse is still the "can do no wrong" country, even if the developers didn't intend on it.

you can't just go #NotAllPlegia then have the majority actually be terribly awful brainwashed servants to their religion, heck i'm hard pressed to say that Henry and Tharja aren't bad people either, just in their own ways that aren't tied into the major religion of Plegia.

I think the point of that whole backstory is that Plegia may not have been quite so fucked up if the war hadn't occurred in the first place. Since the war didn't succeed (to the point where Ylisse was conscripting its populace) it's hard to say he would have ever succeeded, so I'm not sure if he's justified. He probably made conditions for both countries worse during the game's present day, and he didn't succeed in his aim.

But it most certainly doesn't push the idea that the Plegian people don't deserve having bad things happen to them, at least not unless they join the Emmeryn fan club.

I don't think the game wants us to feel like the plegians deserve the war, they just don't want us to feel like Gangrel is justified for launching raids into Ylisse when there's been peace between the two countries for some time. I don't think Gangrel can really justify based on a war that's in the past. I'm not saying they definitely have no grounds for any kind of redress, but as far as I can tell Gangrel is sending bandit raids to fuck with the Ylissean citizenry.

Which speech are you talking about? If you mean the one she gives right before she jumps, is she really supposed to apologize to the enemy after they've captured her and held her for ransom and threatened to kill her? Considering she asks them to seek peace and doesn't bitterly revile them as she dies, I think that's good enough. I'm not going to say Emm's a really capable leader based on how the game shows her, but I think you're asking a bit much.

- Gangrel never comes across like he holds a genuine grudge against Emmeryn or Ylisse to the point that he directly mocks Emmeryn for being too kind.

Generally, I would consider someone who mocks someone for something typically perceived as a virtue to be the hallmark of an asshole with a bit of a grudge. It seems to show it's personal. Numerous lines from Gangrel indicate he has a grudge against Ylisse, I have no idea how you come to this conclusion. A couple examples:

Gangrel

That would only prove Ylisse has a bandit problem—something I hear oft of late... But indeed, tonight I shall weep salty tears into my pillow for your dead villagers.

I want what every Plegian wants—a grisly end for every last Ylissean! What could be more noble than that?

Surely you have not forgotten what the last exalt did to my people? Your father named us heathens! His "crusade" across Plegia butchered countless of my subjects and my kin!

Ugh... Taaaaaalk talk-talk-talk-talk. It's time to speak louder than words! This negotiation is over, Your Luminosity! I shall have the Emblem if I have to pry it from your shiny dead hands!

I guess you could say that Gangrel doesn't really hate Ylisse, and is just using all these excuses to gun for the fire emblem, but considering how quick he is to move to violence, I think it's reasonable to say he probably has a genuine grudge against Ylisse.

I won't disagree the game does little to develop people from Plegia and tends to make a lot of them look bad, but we also get mass desertions from Gangrel's army after Emmeryn's death. Those people aren't necessarily Emmeryn worshippers, maybe they just realized the war kinda means fuck all to them. I definitely agree the game goes out of its way to try and make Emmeryn look good, but I don't think it's trying to hate on plegia quite as much as you say.

I think there have been rulers as opportunistic and war mongering as Gangrel, so while it probably takes a little bit of liberty in making him so zany evil, I don't think his belligerence is wildly far from believable.

So then why the fuck does Kamui/Corrin get so upset over someone he/she barely knows dying for him/her. Sure there would be some guilt but not to the extent that Fates wants the player to believe.

I don't know, maybe different people react differently when people give their lives to save them? I mean, maybe you've had lots of experience with people dying to save you, I'm not sure. Or maybe we don't know the particular rage quotient to turn someone into a dragon, since the game (perfectly excusably) never gives us the scientific equation for the level of rage needed for Kamui to dragomorph. Or maybe you have experience dragomorphing, and know not only how someone else would feel about something, but also about how much rage it takes for them to turn into a dragon.

Also, It could probably be explained by saying that repeated trauma has a kindling effect on Kamui's dragon form. Remember when Hans broke the bridge under Gunther and Kamui used dragon fang in response? That was the first time Kamui attacked someone in a rage in the game, and given that he was isolated in that keep before then, maybe he's not used to anger and violence in the real world etc. Seems like natural progression to me, and I'm amazed people think it's out of the blue.

I agree that Mikoto's presence in the game is shortlived, but in real life, sometimes there are important players in your life who you don't get see all that much of (not necessarily because of death). It's not bad for a game to have a character like that. Mikoto gets some time in other character's supports - it's important to remember that her importance isn't just to the avatar, but to other characters in Hoshido who actually knew her for a longer period of time. Some hosh supports involve her, it's worth keeping in mind that the world is actually wider than the avatar's POV.

We should get away from the idea that because a character has this or that position in a government or this or that relation to another character, they require X amount of development in areas 1, 2, and 3 in order for that character to be justified or for the story to be good.

[Emperor Hardin]

I think the point of that whole backstory is that Plegia may not have been quite so fucked up if the war hadn't occurred in the first place. Since the war didn't succeed (to the point where Ylisse was conscripting its populace) it's hard to say he would have ever succeeded, so I'm not sure if he's justified. He probably made conditions for both countries worse during the game's present day, and he didn't succeed in his aim.

The Grimleal were actively trying to cause the apocalypse for an uncountable amount of time, even the late middle aged Valdiar's great Grandpa was a failed vessel for Grima.

Chrom's dad was trying to exterminate the guys actively making life worse for everyone, Plegians included, for no apparent reason!

I guess you could say that Gangrel doesn't really hate Ylisse, and is just using all these excuses to gun for the fire emblem, but considering how quick he is to move to violence, I think it's reasonable to say he probably has a genuine grudge against Ylisse.

Both his supports, and his backstory on the Japanese website never mention the War even once.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Emperor Hardin

[Augestein]

What characters were missing time to develop? I think they were just developed badly and melodramatically.

Chrom, Lissa, Frederick for starters.

Chrom starts out fine, and by part 2, his arc about becoming a good king just kind of stops. It gets hi-jacked by Robin's plot and goes nowhere.

Lissa has this whole inferiority complex that she believes she's not actually part of the Exalted family. Yet, the game barely even touches upon it. And bear in mind that Lissa is for all intents and purposes our female lead for all of part 1.

Frederick: we barely learn anything about this guy. He seems older than Chrom, but not much older, we don't know his history or anything , when he started or served, and he seems to have this bit of a grudge with Robin at the start for being suspicious, and it never goes anywhere. He calls Robin suspicious and then immediately trusts him afterward-- the supports don't help either.

Without DLC, the entirety of what happened in Lucina's future is ridiculously unclear. We know some things happened and can gather that Lucina made events move faster, but it's just awkward all around. Just to name a few. These are our main characters, and we really don't learn much about them. Chrom starts out as a nice guy, and then... Nothing. He becomes a support character in his own game. The vents are so disjointed across the 3 parts that Chrom doesn't really have any personal feelings outside of Part 1. He just does them because he's stuck on a train that he can't leave. Even worse is the only opinions we get about he feels about things is that he likes Robin as a friend / lover.

[Dinar87]

I really would've replaced Aversa and gangrel (who are pretty generic villains in my eyes) with something akin to the apostle and the begnion senators. Have Plegia be more grey as a country with both human and inhuman people in positions of power. Maybe even have a few greedy, selfish arseholes in Ylisse who abuse their power? These sorts of things (as well as them not being good or evil just cuz) would really help awakening's plot imho as it wouldn't be such a clichéd 'good guys kill bad guys' plot that we've seen a trillion times already.

​Also, there's just not enough backstory, character development (a lot of supports waste their opportunities for this on dull comedy) and world building. There's no moments like Rolf's mother in RD in awakening...at least for me. Admittedly, there's a few standout supports that offer some insight into the characters' previous lives (Gaius and Maribelle was ok) but unfortunately those a few and far between...does it get any better in fates?

Edited July 8, 2016 by Dinar87

[eclipse]

What characters were missing time to develop? I think they were just developed badly and melodramatically.

Man, where do I begin?

- Philia the other martyr

- The previous Exalt, right down to what he did, and why

- Aversa's just. . .there, IMO. While her paralogue gave her some background, it was far too little too late

- The game paints Excellus as some sort of manipulator, but HOW is he getting to people? Supposedly Say'ri was threatened or something, but the game doesn't really expand on this, especially after she defects. This also hurts Yen'fay's character.

- Cervantes is in your way, and that's it. Though Fates has its own share of issues, at least I felt SOMETHING towards Iago and Hans.

Of all the antagonists, the one that I felt was the best-written was Gangrel.

The protagonists get time to develop as characters, but in the story, it's a lot less pronounced. Virion has a history with Valm, yet it's mentioned a bit and dropped. Lissa's next in line for the throne, yet she falls off the face of Ylisse, in terms of story. The story shifts from Chrom and his kingdom to The Robin Show, and I think it does more harm than good.

[Jedi]

I am probably in the minority here, but I kind of like the fact that Robin gets the spotlight and takes the focus away from Chrom, as it subverts the typical Fire Emblem formula.

You have Chrom, the literal archtype of the typical Lord. He is brave, charismatic, idealistic, prince of a nation, weilder of a magic sword. He is your entirely typical fantasy hero guy who fights in some wars against evil kingdoms and he and his friends go to stop the big bad from resurrecting and evil god. And then they fail and all die.

it would have been nice, if it hadn't happened right after FE12 where Kris stole Marth's spotlight. Its timing was poor in my honest opinion, but I can see where you are coming from here.

[Dinar87]

Man, where do I begin?

- Philia the other martyr

- The previous Exalt, right down to what he did, and why

- Aversa's just. . .there, IMO. While her paralogue gave her some background, it was far too little too late

- The game paints Excellus as some sort of manipulator, but HOW is he getting to people? Supposedly Say'ri was threatened or something, but the game doesn't really expand on this, especially after she defects. This also hurts Yen'fay's character.

- Cervantes is in your way, and that's it. Though Fates has its own share of issues, at least I felt SOMETHING towards Iago and Hans.

Of all the antagonists, the one that I felt was the best-written was Gangrel.

The protagonists get time to develop as characters, but in the story, it's a lot less pronounced. Virion has a history with Valm, yet it's mentioned a bit and dropped. Lissa's next in line for the throne, yet she falls off the face of Ylisse, in terms of story. The story shifts from Chrom and his kingdom to The Robin Show, and I think it does more harm than good.

I agree with most of your points but, even though gangrel wasn't the worst villain in awakening I still thought he was poorly written. It's been a while since I played awakening but does gangrel ever tell us why he hates Ylisse so much? Or why he wants the fire emblem? Unless I'm missing something he's evil just cuz. Also, I wish we knew more about Chrom's father and what exactly he did to Plegia. They paint him as a bad man and responsible for the likes of gangrel but we don't know enough about him to truly say if we was justified or not...do we?

Edited July 8, 2016 by Dinar87

[TheWerdna]

I really would've replaced Aversa and gangrel (who are pretty generic villains in my eyes) with something akin to the apostle and the begnion senators. Have Plegia be more grey as a country with both human and inhuman people in positions of power. Maybe even have a few greedy, selfish arseholes in Ylisse who abuse their power? These sorts of things (as well as them not being good or evil just cuz) would really help awakening's plot imho as it wouldn't be such a clichéd 'good guys kill bad guys' plot that we've seen a trillion times already.

​Also, there's just not enough backstory, character development (a lot of supports waste their opportunities for this on dull comedy) and world building. There's no moments like Rolf's mother in RD in awakening...at least for me. Admittedly, there's a few standout supports that offer some insight into the characters' previous lives (Gaius and Maribelle was ok) but unfortunately those a few and far between...does it get any better in fates?

Sadly, no. I would even argue that the supports get worse, as due to there being far more of them it feels like less work was put into each individual supports. Some are still fine, but those are the exception.

Like, there are far too many supports that go like this...

Character A: Hey character B, can we talk about something?

Character B: Sure.

Character A: Cool, let't talk about the thing I won't even say what it is in our B support conversation.

C Support unlocked

[Dinar87]

Sadly, no. I would even argue that the supports get worse, as due to there being far more of them it feels like less work was put into each individual supports. Some are still fine, but those are the exception.

Like, there are far too many supports that go like this...

Character A: Hey character B, can we talk about something?

Character B: Sure.

Character A: Cool, let't talk about the thing I won't even say what it is in our B support conversation.

C Support unlocked

Oh shit! Well there goes my hope for the characters getting better in fates. Please tell me it gets better than this! Yet somehow fates earns the title of "best FE of all time" by """"professional reviewers""""-_-I can only hope they're talking about the gameplay when they say that...is THAT any good?

Edited July 8, 2016 by Dinar87

[Dark Holy Elf]

A few things:

1. For all that this fact displeases me somewhat, it is Awakening that has the title of best FE of all time according to professional reviewers.

2. Yeah, the gameplay of Fates is really, really good. Most people agree on this, and generally the biggest fans of Fates are ones who prioritise this more over story.

3. I personally felt like the supports in Fates were some of the better ones in the series, but full disclousure that I consider this a low bar to clear. I can hardly read most GBA supports without being bored to tears.

[Dinar87]

A few things:

1. For all that this fact displeases me somewhat, it is Awakening that has the title of best FE of all time according to professional reviewers.

2. Yeah, the gameplay of Fates is really, really good. Most people agree on this, and generally the biggest fans of Fates are ones who prioritise this more over story.

3. I personally felt like the supports in Fates were some of the better ones in the series, but full disclousure that I consider this a low bar to clear. I can hardly read most GBA supports without being bored to tears.

Yeah...""""professional reviewers""" haha XD

Have you tried the Tellius series? And I hope you're right about those supports being good. Do they have a lot of backstory or is it just shitzngigglz?

Edited July 8, 2016 by Dinar87

[Dark Holy Elf]

<- Check out my favourite FE game, yes.

The Fates supports aren't the best things ever (again: I'm not super-enamoured of supports in general like some fans, notably when Radiant Dawn lacked them I just shrugged), but they do elaborate on some interesting backstory and setting elements (which should have been in the main game itself in some cases, but oh well!), and of course yeah some are funny.

[Dinar87]

<- Check out my favourite FE game, yes.

The Fates supports aren't the best things ever (again: I'm not super-enamoured of supports in general like some fans, notably when Radiant Dawn lacked them I just shrugged), but they do elaborate on some interesting backstory and setting elements (which should have been in the main game itself in some cases, but oh well!), and of course yeah some are funny.

Sounds encouraging...and I wish I could say the exact moments I liked about the Tellius series other than general things like "it was dark and gritty" or "it took itself more seriously".

[Lance-a-lot]

I love Awakening and Ive never heard or seen a single person that dislikes it until now. Jeez I didnt know this fanbase was so nitpicky. Just ignore the minority .ooo1% that you have here that are complaining about nothing, its a great game.

[Dinar87]

I love Awakening and Ive never heard or seen a single person that dislikes it until now. Jeez I didnt know this fanbase was so nitpicky. Just ignore the minority .ooo1% that you have here that are complaining about nothing, its a great game.

Acting as if your opinion is fact that it's a great game -_- just because you personally don't care about the flaws of said game doesn't automatically make them nitpicks now does it. You can like awakening but I'd appreciate it if you didn't act so elitist over it. How about you learn to accept other peoples' opinions instead of just dismissing them as "nitpicks"? I personally love the Tellius series and dislike the newer direction of current fire emblem...but I at least try to recognise this as nothing more than a personal opinion of mine. I don't dismiss anyone who hates them as a "minority" or haters. I try and be somewhat respectful about things...

As I said, you can like awakening and even think it's a good game...but I'd be grateful if you didn't look down upon those who complain about it.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Dinar87

[Lance-a-lot]

Acting as if your opinion is fact that it's a great game -_- just because you personally don't care about the flaws of said game doesn't automatically make them nitpicks now does it. You can like awakening but I'd appreciate it if you didn't act so elitist over it. How about you learn to accept other peoples' opinions instead of just dismissing them as "nitpicks"?

You have this mixed up, the people picking apart insignificant "issues" are the elitists. Ive been playing Fire emblem since 2002 and Awakening is by far the most positively received FE title other than Fates. Dont be that hipster guy that tries to be edgy by talking bad about a terrific game that literally saved the entire franchise. I do accept your opinion, my point is that youre a very small minority and the poor OP thinks everyone hates this game because hes in the forums with the .0001% that feel the need to pick it apart.

[Dinar87]

You have this mixed up, the people picking apart insignificant "issues" are the elitists. Ive been playing Fire emblem since 2002 and Awakening is by far the most positively received FE title other than Fates. Dont be that hipster guy that tries to be edgy by talking bad about a terrific game that literally saved the entire franchise. I do accept your opinion, my point is that youre a very small minority and the poor OP thinks everyone hates this game because hes in the forums with the .0001% that feel the need to pick it apart.

The problem with that is that whether or not these "issues" are significant are based on subjectivity-in other words, what's terrible for some people is perfectly fine for others. Anyways, I'm sorry for getting all aggressive there but I did feel like you were looking down on those who complained. Oh, and while they'll be some people who complain to be edgy, I can at least say I'm not one of those people as there's things in awakening I'm not particularly fond of. Unless I'm somehow unconsciously trying to be all hipster like, I just simply don't like awakening as much as everyone else.

​And OP if you're reading this, I in no way intentionally tried to invalidate your feelings for the series. All I've ever done is just state my opinions (which are sometimes quite ignorant) but oh well. Just enjoy awakening and fates and don't care about us. We ARE a minority after all.

[Augestein]

You have this mixed up, the people picking apart insignificant "issues" are the elitists. Ive been playing Fire emblem since 2002 and Awakening is by far the most positively received FE title other than Fates. Dont be that hipster guy that tries to be edgy by talking bad about a terrific game that literally saved the entire franchise. I do accept your opinion, my point is that youre a very small minority and the poor OP thinks everyone hates this game because hes in the forums with the .0001% that feel the need to pick it apart.

It's not being edgy. I bought the game because people were saying it was the best of the series by far. I wasn't impressed. I actually skipped on SD and Heroes of Light and Shadow because I didn't like the direction the series was going in RD with the power bloat. Awakening is even WORSE than RD in that regard. Fates on the other hand, goes out of its way to address many of the issues that were present in Awakening from a gameplay perspective. The reason it "saved" the franchise is because Nintendo actually decided to do this thing where they advertise for the game and people actually know it exists. It may have become a major IP now for Nintendo, but I think that speaks volumes for how terribly their other IPs are doing at the moment. As a SRPG it sells pretty well, as a game in general? It's not even coming close to other AAA titles.

Most of the issues you'll see in Awakening don't even crop up in a game where you just don't give a whit about anything in the game and play on normal-- which is what most people would play anyways. I've definitely played worse than Awakening, but it doesn't deserve the praise it gets. The story I thought it is pretty bland, but I don't care if the gameplay is good. Some of my favorite games have practically no story. This topic is about story, it's not even the game itself.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Augestein

[Lance-a-lot]

The problem with that is that whether or not these "issues" are significant are based on subjectivity-in other words, what's terrible for some people is perfectly fine for others. Anyways, I'm sorry for getting all aggressive there but I did feel like you were looking down on those who complained. Oh, and while they'll be some people who complain to be edgy, I can at least say I'm not one of those people as there's things in awakening I'm not particularly fond of. Unless I'm somehow unconsciously trying to be all hipster like, I just simply don't like awakening as much as everyone else.

​And OP if you're reading this, I in no way intentionally tried to invalidate your feelings for the series. All I've ever done is just state my opinions (which are sometimes quite ignorant) but oh well. Just enjoy awakening and fates and don't care about us. We ARE a minority after all.

I dont mean to come off as aggressive either I just notice very often theres a trend now where a game comes out and is well received and a bunch of long time fans in the minority of the fan base take to forums like these and begin to nitpick it apart just to be different and edgy when there really isnt any significant issue with the game. I never understood that. Sure every game has faults but all in all this is a good game that deserved the high ratings and reviews and as a very long time fan of the series I love how its evolved and grown into a much larger game. I personally really hope that they bring it back to consoles one day as well as keep it a good handheld game. Its obviously alright to not like a game but the OP asked why everyone hates it and I answered him with facts when I said that the vast majority dont hate the game and the group here that do are a minority and shouldnt be considered as representatives for the entire fan base. Personally I thought it was awesome how the story jumped around and wasnt focused on one big enemy the entire time, that seemed cool to me. My only guess for why some people dont like it is because it drew from a few deus ex machinas to solve its plots and at times things turned out a bit too convenient Edited July 8, 2016 by Lance-a-lot

[Dinar87]

I dont mean to come off as aggressive either I just notice very often theres a trend now where a game comes out and is well received and a bunch of long time fans in the minority of the fan base take to forums like these and begin to nitpick it apart just to be different and edgy when there really isnt any significant issue with the game. I never understood that. Sure every game has faults but all in all this is a good game that deserved the high ratings and reviews and as a very long time fan of the series I love how its evolved and grown into a much larger game. I personally really hope that they bring it back to consoles one day as well as keep it a good handheld game. Its obviously alright to not like a game but the OP asked why "everyone" hates it and I answered him with facts when I said that the vast majority dont hate the game and the group here that do are a minority and shouldnt be considered "everyone"

​I agree that it should return to consoles. And yeah, most people seem to like the game so that's good. I still have my issues with the franchise but I still have a long way to go before I'm no longer a fan of the series. In that sense I should've voted 'No way!' instead of yes.

[Lance-a-lot]

​I agree that it should return to consoles. And yeah, most people seem to like the game so that's good. I still have my issues with the franchise but I still have a long way to go before I'm no longer a fan of the series. In that sense I should've voted 'No way!' instead of yes.

I mean I can see why some people might not like it, the story relied alot on coincidental happenings, deus ex machinas, and stuff like that but I think it has a lot of good going for it and I appreciate their eagerness to evolve the series in terms of story as can be seen by Fates. In my honest opinion Radiant Dawn and Sacred Stones have the best stories of the entire series and Awakening ranks somewhere in the middle. However in terms of gameplay and other features like supports, marriage, and children I think Awakening places in the top 3 alongside Sacred Stones and Fates Edited July 8, 2016 by Lance-a-lot

[TheWerdna]

Oh shit! Well there goes my hope for the characters getting better in fates. Please tell me it gets better than this! Yet somehow fates earns the title of "best FE of all time" by """"professional reviewers""""-_-I can only hope they're talking about the gameplay when they say that...is THAT any good?

The gameplay (particularly in Conquest) is great. In fact, the gameplay is just about the only part of Fates I liked. It somehow tries to tell a better story than Awakening but screws it up so badly it ends up worse.

But yeah, consesus of most series veterens is that the gameplay is genuinely good