Sun and Moon Competitive Discussion

[Quintessence]

The most "consistently good" Arceus is probably the bulky and fast Swords Dance one

Not sure which between Bold or Timid for the second copy. Bold is essentially only for Water Arceus and this is probably the best support Arceus and PROBABLY one of the best Arceus overall. Timid is used mainly for Dark Arceus(and Fairy Arceus) but it technically have the most set. Its a quality vs quantity

Thanks!

Doing some research about Arceus-Dark, Smogon has the Calm Mind+Judgement Arceus with Recover and Refresh for more life, I think I'd be fine with it. On the other hand, will Normal Arceus work with SD, Extremespeed, Shadow Claw and Earthquake?

Regarding Melo I think I'll stick to Specs offensive and Calm Mind Sub.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

tier list for lulz

M Tier:
Magearna

S Tier:
Greninja
Hoopa Unbound
Landorus Incarnate
Pheromosa
Genesect
Tapu Lele

A+ Tier:
Jirachi
Manaphy
Landorus Therian
Zygarde
Tapu Bulu
Celesteela

Ferrothorn

A Tier:

Pelliper
Mamoswine
Porygon-Z
Heatran
Skarmory
Tapu Fini
Tapu Koko
Excadrill
Tyranitar

B+ Tier:
Lati@s
Garchomp
Alolan Marowak
Skarmory

Silvally

Necrozma

B Tier:
Kartana
Toxapex
Buzzwhole
Alolan Muk

Xurkitree

Mega Scizor, Mega Metagross, and Mega Alakazam are A+. Not sure about the rest

Edited December 7, 2016 by JSND

[Ema Skye]

Going to try Psychic spam out. Enjoyed rain but it was too struggling to beat Ferrothorn. :<

Going with Specs Lele/MZam/Scarf Gene/CB Zydog/Phero/AV Gear

[Deltre]

Going to try Psychic spam out. Enjoyed rain but it was too struggling to beat Ferrothorn. :<

Going with Specs Lele/MZam/Scarf Gene/CB Zydog/Phero/AV Gear

Where are your rocks my man? For the rain thing maybe try Ludicolo as your swift swimmer. He literally does not care about Ferrothorn and easily KOs in return.

JSND Mega Venusaur would land somewhere in high A to low A+, with the same for Zard X. Zard X just wins vs a huge chunk of the teams I've faced, so much so that I wish I had a Zard X team ready to go. Amoonguss should also be added probably about 1 grade below MSaur, for checking most of the same things and not costing a megaslot at the price of being a lot less threatening offensively. I'm curious about some of those ratings though, like why does Magearna get its own tier lol

[Shadow Mir]

Where are your rocks my man? For the rain thing maybe try Ludicolo as your swift swimmer. He literally does not care about Ferrothorn and easily KOs in return.

JSND Mega Venusaur would land somewhere in high A to low A+, with the same for Zard X. Zard X just wins vs a huge chunk of the teams I've faced, so much so that I wish I had a Zard X team ready to go. Amoonguss should also be added probably about 1 grade below MSaur, for checking most of the same things and not costing a megaslot at the price of being a lot less threatening offensively. I'm curious about some of those ratings though, like why does Magearna get its own tier lol

I was curious about that as well.

Thanks!

Doing some research about Arceus-Dark, Smogon has the Calm Mind+Judgement Arceus with Recover and Refresh for more life, I think I'd be fine with it. On the other hand, will Normal Arceus work with SD, Extremespeed, Shadow Claw and Earthquake?

Regarding Melo I think I'll stick to Specs offensive and Calm Mind Sub.

That Normal Arceus moveset sounds good to me.

[Ema Skye]

Oshit I forgot rocks! Gonna have to look into that. I think I'll swap Gear with Lando-T.

I tried Ludicolo but it was kinda mediocre. My team is Pelipper/Ferro/Scizor/Koko/Mana/Kingdra. I might try Superpower Scizor since that's the only place I could fit a fighting move.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Where are your rocks my man? For the rain thing maybe try Ludicolo as your swift swimmer. He literally does not care about Ferrothorn and easily KOs in return.

JSND Mega Venusaur would land somewhere in high A to low A+, with the same for Zard X. Zard X just wins vs a huge chunk of the teams I've faced, so much so that I wish I had a Zard X team ready to go. Amoonguss should also be added probably about 1 grade below MSaur, for checking most of the same things and not costing a megaslot at the price of being a lot less threatening offensively. I'm curious about some of those ratings though, like why does Magearna get its own tier lol

I legit think Magearna is probably the best mon in the meta right now. Godlike typing, insane bulk, hits hard, can be used as a sweeper or as a pivot, can trick room, and had potential use of T Wave to support on something with Dark resists. Its 2 weakness is Fire(which contrary to what everyone said is actually pretty rare right now). It can fit every team

Honestly the only one i'd defend out of those are the Top 7 mon(Magearna, Broken 4, Phero, Lele). A rank is either crowded or biased(see: Ferro, Zygarde), while my criteria for B+(good but kinda shaky mon because of how good some of their problems are) assume everyone used Hoopa/Tyranitar/Tapus for it to made sense

[Deltre]

That thing gets T-Wave? Well that settles that then, 10/10 mon right there.

I don't argue that Fire is rare ATM, but that in turn makes it insanely underprepared for which makes ZardX really, really good right now. The most common resists right now would be the Latis which obviously get murked by +1 Zard. Heatran is a bit more scarce because of Duggy, who coincidentally is a really good partner for a ton of offensive mons right now, Zard included. Tapu Fini hard walls, but those are somewhat rare tbh. Not bad, just uncommon.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Yeah Zard X is really good atm. +1 it beats the Tapus bar Fini, and beats Genesect+Scizor.

Honestly as far as Magearna movepool goes, the only thing i'm surprised about it is it don't learn Psychic, but learns Psybeam for some reason. Not like it would be all that crazy, since Fairy vs Psychic overlaps, but having it able to abuse every single Terrain on top of its current movepool would be kinda funny

[Deltre]

So the usage stats for the first period have dropped, and well... maybe I should just link lol.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/official-smogon-university-usage-statistics-discussion-thread-mk-2.3508502/page-10

UU is about to be insane. That or BL is going to get so big it should be its own tier lmao. Notable mons positioned to drop include Dragonite, possibly Hippowdon, Gliscor, Torn-T (Oh god, not again), Azumarill, Keldeo, Weavile, Latias, Kyurem-B, Jirachi, Mew, Breloom, Thundurus, and Serperior. UU confirmed for BW OU? Mind you, this is just November so new toy syndrome is at an all time high in these usage charts, but UU's gonna be poppin if we see even half of these drop.

[Ema Skye]

It's the new toy syndrome more than anything else. Things will level out.

Tiers aren't updating until January so nothin is set in stone yet.

But yeah, those drops are insane.

[Shadow Mir]

No news of any new bannings?

Aside from Pheromosa, Genesect, Hoopa Unbound and Greninja, I wonder what else has a good chance of getting hit upside the head with the banhammer.

[Deltre]

No news of any new bannings?

Aside from Pheromosa, Genesect, Hoopa Unbound and Greninja, I wonder what else has a good chance of getting hit upside the head with the banhammer.

Throw in Lando-I and you have the most blatant 5 IMO. Funnily enough I think Pheromosa is the least problematic of the on the radar mons, since of the 5 it at least has actual hard counters, as limited as they may be. It also hates priority (LO Adamant Mamoswine deals like 80% with Shard). Good luck with the other 4 before scouting the set!

Tapu Lele won't be quickbanned but will probably get a suspect at some point. I still dunno how I feel about it, if anything puts it over it's definitely the Specs variant though. It has Hoopa Syndrome where clicking your STAB is the right move in 95% of situations, bar any Dark Types. It's hilariously good w/ Hazard Stack, and also doubles as a great support mon for others like MZam, MSharpedo, and ironically Pheromosa. Scarf is good vs Offense, but has actual answers so it's not too extreme IMO, just good. For Specs you have like... AV Magearna. Heatran and Metagross once or twice. Reuniclus if you don't get crit or Sp.Def dropped before terrain ends. Sp. Def Jirachi does alright too. The thing is, Tapu Lele gets coverage for all of them and outspeeds every one bar Mega Metagross. Also 4/5 just drop to Duggy. So yeah. Definitely gonna be suspected eventually.

IDK if anything else really strikes me as broken atm to be honest.

[Ema Skye]

Speaking of AV Magearna, I'm running it with Z-Parting Shot support. It's so much fun and the healing is a major help.

[Deltre]

Speaking of AV Magearna, I'm running it with Z-Parting Shot support. It's so much fun and the healing is a major help.

That's genius. Who's the user if you don't mind sharing?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Dugtrio comes to mind as potential broken mon imo

Speaking of which Tyranitar is a gud mon

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-493167944

not a good game but my boy Ttar coming through

Edited December 9, 2016 by JSND

[Ema Skye]

That's genius. Who's the user if you don't mind sharing?

I use Alolan Persian. There's a fair bit of natural synergy as Persian can take physical hits for days, while Magearna can take special hits forever. Plus there's a pseudo-Volt Turn between them.

I'm loving it.

[Deltre]

I use Alolan Persian. There's a fair bit of natural synergy as Persian can take physical hits for days, while Magearna can take special hits forever. Plus there's a pseudo-Volt Turn between them.

I'm loving it.

That sounds really cool, I might have to try that out haha.

I definitely a believer of Magearna after playing around a bit today. Had some pretty decent games where Magearna put in a ton of work.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-493807132 vs A bunch of broken shit

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-493789277 vs A Zard X team

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-493698281 vs Rain (I misplay slightly towards the end)

I think I finally put together a pretty good rain team too. I've had to play around with the last move on King a lot, I can't decide on Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, or surprise Flamethrower lol. Still praying they free my man Mega Pert though.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-493585763 vs Shed Stall (this is my favorite one lol)

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-493716758 vs LeleZam

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-493782152 vs Sticky Web

I've basically come to the conclusion that balance/bulky offense is still totally viable, it just needs to evolve a bit to keep up with all these powerhouses. It'll be really good if we start to see some bans here, but I don't know how many things will really be going when the dust settles. No matter what though, some form of speed control is mandatory right now be it a Scarfer, Trick Room, Rain, whatever. There's just too much power flying around.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Deltre

[BANRYU]

^ That Shuckle user was a fool not to run Mental Herb lol. And no spinblocker? What were they thinking??

Hot damn that Magearna sweep tho, ahaha.

I don't know whether to be glad or offended that SR/SW Shuckle has become a thing in OU nowadays... I WAS USING HAZARD-LEAAD SHUCKLE BEFORE IT WAS COOL (pre-ORAS gen 6). I kinda feel like I invented it but obv I can't take all the credit, obviously other people are gonna figure out that he's the only/best user of those two hazards eventually... x___X

Edited December 10, 2016 by BANRYU

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

it have been a thing since like gen 5. Its just kinda shit because of the frankly awkward nature of the move + the holder of the move itself

Edited December 10, 2016 by JSND

[Water Mage]

So the usage stats for the first period have dropped, and well... maybe I should just link lol.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/official-smogon-university-usage-statistics-discussion-thread-mk-2.3508502/page-10

UU is about to be insane. That or BL is going to get so big it should be its own tier lmao. Notable mons positioned to drop include Dragonite, possibly Hippowdon, Gliscor, Torn-T (Oh god, not again), Azumarill, Keldeo, Weavile, Latias, Kyurem-B, Jirachi, Mew, Breloom, Thundurus, and Serperior. UU confirmed for BW OU? Mind you, this is just November so new toy syndrome is at an all time high in these usage charts, but UU's gonna be poppin if we see even half of these drop.

I can see why some these Pokemon could drop, but Azumarill?

Other than Toxapex, I really can't of anything new that would be trouble for Azumarill.

Tapu Lele and Psychic Terrain do come to mind, but Aqua Jet+Choice Band is far from the only thing Azumarill can use.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

FUCK yes that cancerous 664 BST pokemon with 229 special attack is finally banned

Now for phero and unbound

Edited December 11, 2016 by JSND

[Zanarkin]

FUCK yes that cancerous 664 BST pokemon with 229 special attack is finally banned

Who is that?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Landorus

[Nobody]

I can see why some these Pokemon could drop, but Azumarill?

Other than Toxapex, I really can't of anything new that would be trouble for Azumarill.

Tapu Lele and Psychic Terrain do come to mind, but Aqua Jet+Choice Band is far from the only thing Azumarill can use.

It's just that people are experimenting with new pokemon, so old pokemon that are good but not great on the new meta drop.

Once the metagame stabilizes, it's probable most of these will go back to OU