Pokémon Sun and Moon Demo leaks and Early copy leaks related discussion (Obviously spoilers)

[Magical Glace]

Eh, no worries. I really need to double check these threads.

So ... I hear that everything in this generation is horrendously slow?

Not everything, but an awful lot for some reason.

Pheromosa/UB-02 Beauty has 151 base speed, so some things are fast.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Sunwoo]

Not everything, but most 'mons are really slow and bulky. Decidueye is the fastest fully evolved starter with 70 base speed, and few 'mons break 100.

It just feels weird that GF put in a bunch of slow, bulky 'mons- and then decided that things like Tapu Koko and Salazzle should have both good speed and offenses.

And then there's the UBs- half of them are ridiculously biased towards one or two stats while the other half are just plain average in every regard.

It really feels like GF did not make this gen with the meta-game in mind.

*checks bulbapedia*

Holy balderdash, that's just slightly faster than Chesnaught (who was my starter of choice in Y but had a +spd nature, so shrug). If Decidueye is as bulky as Chesnaught, I can make this work, especially since I don't play competitive. But I guess I'm a bit surprised that it's Chesnaught tier slow. Considering it's based on an archer. Maybe stats work differently this generation? Nah, I doubt it.

I guess GF did whatever they wanted, or something.

Not everything, but an awful lot for some reason.

Pheromosa/UB-02 Beauty has 151 base speed, so some things are fast.

151? Okay, that's faster than both Greninja and Talonflame. What are its other stats like, at least?

Also, apparently everything I want to use in Alola is slow XD I heard that Lurantis is really bad?

[Magical Glace]

*checks bulbapedia*

Holy balderdash, that's just slightly faster than Chesnaught (who was my starter of choice in Y but had a +spd nature, so shrug). If Decidueye is as bulky as Chesnaught, I can make this work, especially since I don't play competitive. But I guess I'm a bit surprised that it's Chesnaught tier slow. Considering it's based on an archer. Maybe stats work differently this generation? Nah, I doubt it.

I guess GF did whatever they wanted, or something.

151? Okay, that's faster than both Greninja and Talonflame. What are its other stats like, at least?

Also, apparently everything I want to use in Alola is slow XD I heard that Lurantis is really bad?

137 in both Attack stats, crap defenses and HP

Lurantis is apparently worse than Tsareena.

[Sunwoo]

137 in both Attack stats, crap defenses and HP

Lurantis is apparently worse than Tsareena.

Literal glass cannon then.

And is Tsareena also kind of lackluster? As long as it's not Luvdisc tier, I can probably use it for main game.

[Magical Glace]

Literal glass cannon then.

And is Tsareena also kind of lackluster? As long as it's not Luvdisc tier, I can probably use it for main game.

Lurantis is shown at 8:16

Tsareena at 2:01

[Sunwoo]

Lurantis looks like a worse Gallade with higher special attack.

Tsareena, well ... at least its speed isn't as bad as Lurantis's? But holy shit, why is her attack so sky-high and her special attack pitiful? Actually, this looks more like Gallade with worse special defense.

[Magical Glace]

Lurantis looks like a worse Gallade with higher special attack.

Tsareena, well ... at least its speed isn't as bad as Lurantis's? But holy shit, why is her attack so sky-high and her special attack pitiful? Actually, this looks more like Gallade with worse special defense.

The really sad thing about Tsareena is her strongest physical grass attack has a wonderous 70 BP.

...yeah.

[Emeraldfox]

Lurantis looks like a worse Gallade with higher special attack.

Tsareena, well ... at least its speed isn't as bad as Lurantis's? But holy shit, why is her attack so sky-high and her special attack pitiful? Actually, this looks more like Gallade with worse special defense.

A physical attacker with a low special attack? Boggles the mind.

I want to hug Lurantis

[Sunwoo]

The really sad thing about Tsareena is her strongest physical grass attack has a wonderous 70 BP.

...yeah.

Remind me, because I had a hard time reading the tiny font, what physical grass moves does Tsareena get?

[Magical Glace]

Remind me, because I had a hard time reading the tiny font, what physical grass moves does Tsareena get?

Trop Kick and Razor Leaf

That's it.

Tsarevna Alena is saddened by the lack of good physical grass moves for Tsareena.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[Sunwoo]

Trop Kick and Razor Leaf

That's it.

Tsarevna Alena is saddened by the lack of good physical grass moves for Tsareena.

Wow, that's pretty awful. Are there any non-grass physical moves she can take advantage of, at least?

[Magical Glace]

Wow, that's pretty awful. Are there any non-grass physical moves she can take advantage of, at least?

Return, Fascade, Rapid Spin, High Jump Kick, Play Rough, Acrobatics, U-Turn, and Payback.

She also gets a really good ability in Queenly Majesty.

[Sunwoo]

Return, Fascade, Rapid Spin, High Jump Kick, Play Rough, Acrobatics, U-Turn, and Payback.

She also gets a really good ability in Queenly Majesty.

Well, I guess that's not THAT bad. I like to run a varied moveset anyway for coverage.

[Magical Glace]

On another note, music's leaking now as well, for those interested.

[UNLEASH IT]

So the majority of the regular pokemon are slow mixed attackers while the legendaries and UBs tend to be minmaxed?

[Magical Glace]

So the majority of the regular pokemon are slow mixed attackers while the legendaries and UBs tend to be minmaxed?

Even some of the UBs are fairly average. The UB-02's are the only super extreme minmaxers.

[The DanMan]

Trop Kick and Razor Leaf

That's it.

Tsarevna Alena is saddened by the lack of good physical grass moves for Tsareena.

Sounds like somebody else should've learned solar blade.

So the majority of the regular pokemon are slow mixed attackers while the legendaries and UBs tend to be minmaxed?

Heck, Solgaleo and Lunaala only have slight stat deviances towards physical and special, respectively. It works out much better for Solgaleo as it can afford be kinda tanky, while Lunaala needs to be a glass cannon.

[Quintessence]

I've chacked the movepool of some units and Drampa amuses me with the bunch of moves it can learn: ice beam, thunderbolt, flamethrower, focus blast, shadow ball, energy ball, dragon pulse, hyper voice (?), extrasensory, man, that's a lot.

Also, I like how Solgaleo and Lunaala are diverse but still focused on a theme. Solgaleo has sun related moves like Morning Sun, Solarbeam, Flare Blitz, its signature and Giga Impact; while Lunaala gets Moonblast, its signature, Night Gaze, Psychic, Moonlight, etc. Quite cool!

Edit: statwise they're pretty similar to Yveltal and Xerneas

Edited November 8, 2016 by Quintessence

[Konnor97]

I've chacked the movepool of some units and Drampa amuses me with the bunch of moves it can learn: ice beam, thunderbolt, flamethrower, focus blast, shadow ball, energy ball, dragon pulse, hyper voice (?), extrasensory, man, that's a lot.

Normal and Dragon do tend to help a lot for movepools.

[Zanarkin]

Oh yeah. I mixed up Sand Rush and Sand Force.

Oh yeah. Here's Alolan pokemon stats + Zygarde.

All changed stats/abilities of old mons.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwwCLZ2UAAIF_r9.jpg

Move sets of all mons.

https://projectpokemon.org/research/sunmoon/learnsets.txt

They're real.

[spoiler=more videos]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvkFsQfnYZk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=mNPIhIRKsas

Evolution methods/levels for new mons.

https://twitter.com/Kaphotics/status/796029351439405056

Here's a bunch of stuff.

https://twitter.com/KazoWAR/status/796015665148809216

Can we get these links and videos on the front page? It is a hassle to go back looking for the link you need :V.

Edit: Im sure there are more links i missed that might be useful

Edited November 8, 2016 by SlayerX

[Magical Glace]

Can we get these links and videos on the front page? It is a hassle to go back looking for the link you need :V.

Edit: Im sure there are more links i missed that might be useful

On it.

[Emerson]

I can't say enough about how pleased I am with Mudsdale.

100 Hp, 120 Attack, 100 Defense, and 85 Special Defense. Sure, 35 Speed, whatever. Doesn't matter when I can run Assault Vest/Choice Band to completely wall/kill everything. Not to mention damaging it with any attack boosts it's Defense. It's not type specific, contact required, or ony physical moves; ANY move makes it's Defense go up by one.

I'm already a massive fan of tanky things, and Mudsdale just makes me so happy. Toxapex too.

I'm also thinking of running Choice Scarf!Tsareena. Queenly Majesty pretty much negates the worry of priority, and while it can't use Fake Out or Rapid Spin, it can do some nice sweeping with Play Rough and High Jump Kick.

Running Normalium Z could be worth looking into as well since it gets access to Splash.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Emerson

[The DanMan]

On another note, music's leaking now as well, for those interested.

It's not quite grabbing me, at least the battle themes.

They really don't "sound" like Pokemon- I can't hum along to any of the battle themes so far. All the major fights sound either mysterious and imposing, "epic", or some combination thereof. They said that they had Go Iichinose back on, but I feel like he either still had a minor role in things or that they deliberately tried taking the soundtrack in a different direction. It's stuff like the Team Skull battle themes and rival themes that end up memorable, while the major story fights just really don't feel like something you'd hear in Pokemon.

I'll use an example: the legendary theme sounds like some alien is chasing after you and trying to kill you, with "oh yeah" and "go go go" thrown in sounding like someone screamed them into a guitar. X and Y's legendary theme, though repetitive, gave me a sync point- a baseline. The main chord of that song sounds freaking awesome and is something that I can recall instantly from memory and made an impression on me from the start. SM's is not as weak as Sinnoh's, certainly, but it just doesn't feel like what I've come to expect from pokemon.

I think the most damning, though, is the Aether Grunt theme. I'll just put it right here, and let the song mostly speak for itself:

That does not sound like a grunt theme. Like, at all.

The issue here is that it (and the other Foundation battle themes) are derived from the locational theme for the Foundation, which is meant to be atmospheric. Using ORAS as an example, both Zinnia and Wally had their battle themes based off of a pre-existing piece that was related to them. The difference is that piece wasn't fully atmospheric- it had a clear tune and leitmotif that, when brought out guns blazing, made for easily two of the best battle themes in the series.

Heck, even the champion theme is just a 1:30 booming orchestral arrangement of the main theme.

I'm not against the different direction- considering the different direction the game and it's story took in general, it makes sense. But the major battle themes just don't quite sound like Pokemon. Where's my Hoeen E4 theme? Where's the Cynthia's theme of the game? Where's N's theme?

Team Skull is nice and all, and the rival themes are suitable energetic, but the BGM of the biggest fights in the story just feel kinda lacking on their own.

Edited November 9, 2016 by The DanMan

[Konnor97]

I can't say enough about how pleased I am with Mudsdale.

100 Hp, 120 Attack, 100 Defense, and 85 Special Defense. Sure, 35 Speed, whatever. Doesn't matter when I can run Assault Vest/Choice Band to completely wall/kill everything. Not to mention damaging it with any attack boosts it's Defense. It's not type specific, contact required, or ony physical moves; ANY move makes it's Defense go up by one.

I'm already a massive fan of tanky things, and Mudsdale just makes me so happy. Toxapex too.

Yeah. I am surprised on how not-bad Mudsdale's Special Defense is. 100/100/85 bulk ain't bad at all. An Assault Vest set doesn't sound that bad, and although it lacks reliable recover, it can hold out for a bit hopefully. Heavy Slam, EQ, Rock Slide, and Close Combat/Superpower/Double Kick ain't bad. Unfortunately that's all it gets besides Return of course, so it sounds incredibly predictable. At least Assault Vest/Choice Band can sorta be a thing to guess, but eh.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Konnor97

[Magical Glace]

snip

I liked Gladion's theme, at least. A lot. I really hope I wind up liking Gladion himself, he's grown on me.

The Aether Grunt Theme... Tbh, I first heard it used as the bgm for the UB stats video... and thought it suited them really well, it's got this super unearthly feel to it for me. Then I learned it was the Grunt theme. And my reaction was basically "but it fits the UB's so much better."

The actual UB theme, meanwhile, just doesn't have that same feel that makes the Aether Grunt theme sound so unearthly and dangerous. As far as I'm concerned, Aether Grunt should have gotten something else, and the UB's got their theme.