Admiral "Bull" Halsey Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) Since 6th Gen is now ancient history, I just want to look back in the past to determine which is the most powerful Pokemon that GAME FREAK had ever produced: 1st Gen Mewtwo from RBY or 6th Gen Mega Rayquaza from ORAS? Edited December 12, 2016 by General MacArthur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Mewtwo wins because it's canonically broken; Rayquaza is just the beneficiary of power creep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emerson Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) RBY Mewtwo is pretty much untouchable, whereas Mega Rayquaza can be dealt with if prepared for. Edited December 12, 2016 by Emerson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-Naut Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 RBY Mewtwo is more broken by virtue of there being a lot more options for Mega Rayquaza, and while it can theoretically dismantle each one with a different set Mewtwo is making a mockery of its "checks" with only ONE set. If it's a one-on-one fight... Mega Rayquaza can win if it can bring a Jolly nature and either Delta Stream or a Yache Berry back. If we let it break the EV cap though then all it needs is a Lum Berry. In the former case Mewtwo can still win with T-Wave or Blizzard (unless it faces DS+Lum, which demands a crit), and in the latter it needs a critical Self-Destruct to OHKO. Swords Dance+Dragon Ascent wrecks Mewtwo. BUT if we go strictly off Gen I mechanics, then Mewtwo wins easily. Dragonite (180 Atk) Sky Attack (120 BP) vs. Mewtwo: 214-252 (51.5 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Mewtwo Blizzard vs. Dragonite (105 HP/180 Spc): 309-364 (74.8 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Mega Rayquaza had to be banned from Ubers. Honestly, that has to be saying something about how absurd it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augestein Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 RBY boasted a decent movepool, good special, speed, attack and the rest of its stats being well above average. It had no type disadvantage outside of Pin Missile. Mewtwo takes this by storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) Mega Rayquaza isn't the best pokemon in the game(thats Arceus/Primal Groudon), so RBY mewtwo Even outside the Primal Groudon factor that is a good example of why RBY Mewtwo is more broken. RBY Ubers list of good pokemon is like Snorlax, Slowbro, Chansey, Mew, Tauros, Exeguttor, Jynx, and Gengar For exploder, Mewtwo have Barrier For the rest Mewtwo is faster Like Mew is probably just as retardedly broken, but its a far cry from Mega Rayquaza competing against Arceus, Primal Groudon, and Xerneas Edited December 12, 2016 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Mewtwo in Gen. 1 can buff itself to the point that it cannot be touched (especially by Special Attacks) and also has reliable recovery in the form of, well, Recover. The Psychic type was known to be overpowered as Bug-type attacks do too little SE damage to matter and Gen. 1 programming is faulty which can be seen with Ghost-type attacks doing nothing against Psychic-types. The EV and IV systems are also much different in Gen. 1, allowing Mewtwo to basically achieve its maximums in all of its stats given lots of time. Mewtwo is also too fast to be touched by OHKO moves like Fissure given how ridiculous Gen. 1 mechanics can be. Mega Rayquaza has no such luxury outside of Rest+Sleep Talk but why would you do that anyways? Mega Rayquaza is also bound to the 510 Max EVs system as well as Nature and modern IV systems, Also, the Gen. 6 metagame is considerably much faster than Gen. 1's with focus on OHKOs or 2HKOs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) Psychic type itself actually wasn't overpowered in gen 1. Its actually very bad offensively since a real RBY team have like half the team taking jacksquat against Psychic. Problem is mon that ISN'T Psychic sucks giant balls as far as toolset goes. Normal is the only typing who generally have good pokemon, but their stats sucked. Psychic usually have Recover, Thunder Wave, Reflect, and extremely good stats(Amnesia actually kinda sucked outside Mewtwo since critical hit is expected) Its more of a Steel Type of RBY more than anything else that caused the metagame to be Stall Wars with Normal and arguably Ground as the OP type. Its kinda funny when you remember Alakazam was the best wall in RBY Edited December 12, 2016 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 With the combined Special stats, Gen 1 Mewtwo has the equvialent of 744 BST. It also crits 25% of the time and has Amnesia to double its special. Mewtwo also gets 1000+ EVs. Throw in the speed tier, Gen 1 Blizzard (and freeze mechanics), and Recover and I really don't see how Mega Rayquaza is better. Mewtwo also has no weaknesses aside from Jolteon's Pin Missile, which averages out to a measly 15% on 3 hits. There's a reason the Smogon analysis calls Gen 1 Mewtwo the best Pokemon of any generation. I mean, I guess Rayquaza can hold an item and it gets a nature but that doesn't make up for the statistical advantage Mewtwo has. If you want to compare them one on one... 252 SpA Mewtwo Blizzard (120BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 330-390 (94 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (this is with Rayquaza's ability) 252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo: 274-325 (65.8 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) With the combined Special stats, Gen 1 Mewtwo has the equvialent of 744 BST. It also crits 25% of the time and has Amnesia to double its special. Mewtwo also gets 1000+ EVs. Throw in the speed tier, Gen 1 Blizzard (and freeze mechanics), and Recover and I really don't see how Mega Rayquaza is better. Mewtwo also has no weaknesses aside from Jolteon's Pin Missile, which averages out to a measly 15% on 3 hits. There's a reason the Smogon analysis calls Gen 1 Mewtwo the best Pokemon of any generation. I mean, I guess Rayquaza can hold an item and it gets a nature but that doesn't make up for the statistical advantage Mewtwo has. If you want to compare them one on one... 252 SpA Mewtwo Blizzard (120BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 330-390 (94 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (this is with Rayquaza's ability) 252 Atk Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo: 274-325 (65.8 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO If you factor in old IV system Mewtwo BST is actually 720 + 64 + (63 x 3/2) = 784 + 94 = 878 on current standard 720 + 64 from the Special stats, 63 from how EV works, 3 because you will spend EV for Speed and Special Attack normally, so thats 3 more stats that normally would get EV, but doesn't Edited December 12, 2016 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) http://www.smogon.com/dex/rb/pokemon/mewtwo/ Here...need I say more. ...And why that Amnesia is nerfed to only raise Sp.Def since gen II. Invented Calm Mind to do the same, but only by 1 level in comparison to 2. It is indeed the Ultimate Pokemon. Nothing can ever defeat it! Stated in the dex in the anime when Giovanni used to own one and... Giovanni: It is the Ultimate Pokemon. It can never be defeated. *Slams Blue's Ninoking on the ground with it's Psychic force*. GF made it like this because of that! :) Psychics were dominant of Gen I as they have really no weaknesses as there were only a few Bug moves in the game Leech Life and Pin Missle. That's it! ...And those do next to nothing to those walls. (Alakazam/Mew/Mewtwo) Sure you can use 0HKO moves Fissure, Sheer Cold, etc, or try to freeze it. But...not viable since they almost never work and it really is all you can do and one miss (Ohko moves), No Freeze can give it an Amnesia boost and say goodbye to your team. As almost most other Pokes will just get swept and not be able to do anything about it. Only faster Pokes gets the 0HKO moves, Ice Moves. But they hardly work to this favor and it is really all you can do against this monstrosity. It's completely invincible otherwise. So...Mewtow(RBY)>>>Mega Rayquaza. Since new moves like 0HKO, Endeaver are examples that can deal with them. When in Gen I, you have none of this which is why that there is almost nothing that you can do to stop it! But...yeah. RBY Mewtwo is pretty much unstoppable having no checks whatsoever and Mega Rayquaza already cannot be used, period. No facilities, no online battles, nothing. What on Earth is the point of it's existance if it cannot even be used? I would say the same for Moody, but that can be used in in game facilities. Just now Arceus needs a Mega form and it'll make both Mewtwo and Rayquaza a joke. Edited December 31, 2016 by PuffPuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.