Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Kaden]

39 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I really like Oboro's stat spread. Sadly I think Lukas now does anything Oboro can do better, especially +Def Lukas. Oboro does have much better Res, though...

Donnel, Ephraim, and Lukas do everything Oboro can do better. And eventually, we'll have a lance infantry who specializes in mage killing, so there's that too... Not as bad as Beruka whose marginally higher defense compared to Michalis's is absolutely crushed by his Hauteclare and much, much higher attack. Beruka doesn't have any other option than to be a tank and between a tank who just tanks to a tank who also quickly murders people, the latter probably wins for most people. Or Florina compared to Clair, Est, and Shanna. Or Setsuna who only has 1 high stat and 4 low stats to the other archers and units in general having better balanced stats. At least Oboro can be a jack of all trades, but that comes at a cost of not specializing in anything.

I'm just salty after figuring out what to do with a +Atk, -Res Oboro only to have Lukas show up and then after crunching numbers watching her struggle against Donnel, Ephraim, and Lukas doing the same builds as her... And then the game throws a free Niles at me after being deprived of any archers other than Virion for 21 freaking summons of which Niles showed up and after that, summoning Jaffar, Rebecca, and Setsuna all with -Atk. Yay, thanks for giving me 3 characters I like with -Atk. I'll add them to the list of grievances alongside -Atk Barst, Cherche, Lon'qu -- do not get me started on all the crap natures I've gotten with this guy --, Ninian, Raven, M!Robin, and while I don't like him as much, but he has been a very useful unit, Subaki. Also, Sophia.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Kaden

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

23 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

I really like Oboro's stat spread. Sadly I think Lukas now does anything Oboro can do better, especially +Def Lukas. Oboro does have much better Res, though...

 

Exactly what i thought tbh

Strong Bulky Brave Lancer infantry is a neat spread and then Lukas happened. I guess Donnel too but Lukas just shows it how its done lol

I love how in contrast Axe is FILLED with those with Cherche, Frederick, and Bartre being a day 1 unit

[DehNutCase]

21 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

But would you rather have a Pot head on your team, or a fashionista?

Both you and I know the answer to that question ;)

I don't particularly care about the pot head or the fashion thing, so the guy with more arena points would go on my team, ceteris paribus.

 

That said, it's doubtful any 'trainee' units will end up on my teams, since all of them have balanced stats. Nowi and Y!Tiki are the best of them, but the existence of Falchion neuters them as a practical choice. (Chrom and Lucina in particular can fight through TA3 with proper set-up---Chrom can fight through TA3 and Swordbreaker).

[Extrasolar]

2 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

Compared to Chrom, Alm has somewhat less defense and attack, and slightly more speed and resistance, which makes him more of a slow Marth more than anything, though this in itself isn't bad at all. His strength rating is pretty good combined with Falchion access though. Windsweep doesn't seem like a great skill outside of stopping Close Counter procs, but Alm still needs more speed than his target for it to go off, so it seems redundant either way. Too slow, and you can't use it; too fast, and you should just unequip it and let him double normally. Might do a write-up on this at some point since I'm curious myself. The easiest fix would be either Quick Riposte or Swordbreaker as the B Passive, seeing as Draconic Aura and even Atk+ are good defaults if you want something more budget.

Yeah, Windsweep is really weird. I'm not sure I even understand completely how it works, since the wording is a little confusing.

Any reason for Swordbreaker in particular? Is it to counter swordlords, or something else? I know red swords are everywhere in the meta.

2 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Alm has a great sword, and passable stat spread---SPD isn't high enough to glass-cannon his way through things, but his bulk is decent, especially since his speed is high enough to prevent most doubles.

Windsweep is a derpy skill, situationally useful, and always prevents doubles. Useful if you have a great need for repeated chipping, but costs Alm the ability to double anything.

If I had him, I'd probably use him as crappy Minerva. Minerva has similar bulk, better coverage, and flies, but Alm has more sustained presence thanks to Falchion and Windsweep, meaning he'd be around to chip for longer. Minerva fits better on my teams since everyone is a glass cannon (save Minerva herself, since I don't L&D 3 her), so fights don't go long enough for sustained bulk to matter, but I can see Alm putting in work in a slower paced team.

So wait, are you suggesting building Alm more juggernaut and defensive rather than full on offensive sweeper? What skills would you suggest putting on him?

By the way, @eclipse's suggestion to promote my M!Robin to 5* really paid off for me. Current main team is 5* Klein, 5* M!Robin, 4* Lon'qu (almost Lon'qu of Death with Fury 3 and Desperation 3, but I'm still grinding that SP), and 4* Cherche, and we're stealing souls in the arena. I wasn't too impressed with Cherche at first, but she really grew on me. The team works well together.

[Arcanite]

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

I don't particularly care about the pot head or the fashion thing, so the guy with more arena points would go on my team, ceteris paribus.

That's the wrong answer -_-

 

25 minutes ago, Kaden said:

At least Oboro can be a jack of all trades, but that comes at a cost of not specializing in anything.

This is the part where I go off and say a bunch of crud about "Oboro is the greatest" and "All hail Oboro" and "Take that back right now", but

1. I'm too tired for this right now 

2. Everyone knows Oboro is the greatest anyway, so no need to elaborate.

[DehNutCase]

18 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

So wait, are you suggesting building Alm more juggernaut and defensive rather than full on offensive sweeper? What skills would you suggest putting on him?

Alm can't juggernaut, he doesn't have the spread---too balanced. He definitely can't offensively sweep, either, not enough spd, not enough atk. (All of the other Falchion users, for one reason or another, sweep better than he does.)

His role is off-tank and chipping. He doesn't take damage when chipping except against close-counter mages, which don't have the defensive stats to require chipping in the first place. His balanced spread means that he's decently difficult to double, and single hits find it very hard to KO him. (Effie manages, but exactly, meaning any defensive A skill, boon, or S-seal will let him live). This combined with his Windsweep means that he's excellent for dealing either the first bit of damage or the last bit, whichever bit saves you more damage, and then tanking any EP retaliation. (Last bit vs. Vantage users, first bit vs. guys your damage dealer can't KO without taking a counter.)

 

Edit: With Fury 3 and +3 hp seal, only 5 units, all blue, manage to 1RKO him at base. That said, Fury 3 causes him to take damage while chipping, so +5 hp or +3 speed would be a bit better. 8 or 7 units now 1RKO him from full, but he's at least guaranteed to be at full now. It's also perfectly acceptable to keep +3 atk on him, only the very best damage dealers, mostly blue, KO him anyway.

Edited April 19, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Kaden]

10 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

That's the wrong answer -_-

 

This is the part where I go off and say a bunch of crud about "Oboro is the greatest" and "All hail Oboro" and "Take that back right now", but

1. I'm too tired for this right now 

2. Everyone knows Oboro is the greatest anyway, so no need to elaborate.

Add in this third point that I learned the hard way: It's more productive if you don't.

Let's just say trying to figure out what Falco's worth in Smash 4 and ending up the conclusion that, in my opinion, he's the most worthless and the worst character of Smash 4 and the most broken character of the franchise itself sooner would have saved me so much time that I could have done to do something else like learning how to draw again, but with my left hand because my right had tendinitis, chipping away at a backlog of anime, books, films, and games, no procrastinating, and other stuff.

I'll still rant and be annoyed every now and again about stuff like this, though. It's just better to not care. Knowing they're not as good is good enough. I'd rather focus on using a dopey archer then always focus on the fact that a pineapple is the best option when it comes to archers in general. Pineapples are still tasty, though. Bacon, pepperoni, and pineapples on pizza. Fight me. :p

Edited April 19, 2017 by Kaden

[Korath88]

Regarding Alm, this is the build I'm using now. +Spd gives him a lot of extra doubling potential especially with fury equipped. Didn't give him swordbreaker as I'm out of sullys and can't pull an Abel. Did calculations for the 4 falchions yesterday and he's definitely much better than Chrom with optimised sets for both. With the optimal nature, he's also better than neutral Marth, but that's not exactly a fair comparison. He's the safest of the 4 since he's not too frail and not too slow either. With +spd and fury equipped, he has 0 losses in the mass duel calculator, which means that he can engage most enemies at full HP.

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Korath88

[DarkLordIvy]

So there I was happily training up Nino and Navarre aaaaaaannnnnd

OH THE INHUMANITY!!!

I love it when these things happen.

[Arcanite]

1 minute ago, Kaden said:

Add in this third point that I learned the hard way: It's more productive if you don't.

Let's just say trying to figure out what Falco's worth in Smash 4 and ending up the conclusion that, in my opinion, he's the most worthless and the worst character of Smash 4 and the most broken character of the franchise itself sooner would have saved me so much time that I could have done to do something else like learning how to draw again, but with my left hand because my right had tendinitis, chipping away at a my backlog of anime, books, films, and games, and other stuff.

I'll still rant and be annoyed every now and again about stuff like this, though. It's just better to not care. Knowing they're not as good is good enough. I'd rather focus on using a dopey archer then always focus on the fact that a pineapple is the best option when it comes to archers in general.

I'm not sure if you understood that I was joking but okay? XD

I wasn't being serious at all! Maybe I should've made it more clear . . . . . . . .

Just now, DarkLordIvy said:

So there I was happily training up Nino and Navarre aaaaaaannnnnd

OH THE INHUMANITY!!!

I love it when these things happen.

Heh. I know the feeling.

Especially when I was training my Nino once and got a team of Lancers.

Good times....... good times......

[DehNutCase]

4 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

Regarding Alm, this is the build I'm using now. +Spd gives him a lot of extra doubling potential especially with fury equipped. Didn't give him swordbreaker as I'm out of sullys and can't pull an Abel. Did calculations for the 4 falchions yesterday and he's definitely much better than Chrom with optimised sets for both. With the optimal nature, he's also better than neutral Marth, but that's not exactly a fair comparison. He's the safest of the 4 since he's not too frail and not too slow either. With +spd and fury equipped, he has 0 losses in the mass duel calculator, which means that he can engage most enemies at full HP.

He's better than Chrom in general (the other 3 all are better than Chrom in general), but Chrom has the advantage of dumping Spd for Atk. This means: Breakers don't affect him, and Dragon Fang Chrom laughs at TA3.

Only 4 units manage to survive a +Atk, DB3, Dragon Fang Chrom from full hp. Effie, Lukas, Gwen, and Subaki.

Even with TA-3, only Donnel, S!Xander, Oboro, Sharena, and Ephraim join that list.

(Fun fact, the presence of Sword-breaker never changes his wins to losses, only his draws to losses.)

Edited April 19, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Korath88]

3 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

He's better than Chrom in general (the other 3 all are better than Chrom in general), but Chrom has the advantage of dumping Spd for Atk. This means: Breakers don't affect him, and Dragon Fang Chrom laughs at TA3.

Only 4 units manage to survive a +Atk, DB3, Dragon Fang Chrom from full hp. Effie, Lukas, Gwen, and Subaki.

Even with TA-3, only Donnel, S!Xander, Oboro, and Ephraim join that list.

Dragon fang Alm only fails to ORKO 5 units with +Atk and fury. 1 less KO is nothing compared to his greater utility elsewhere 

[DarkLordIvy]

3 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

Heh. I know the feeling.

Especially when I was training my Nino once and got a team of Lancers.

Good times....... good times......

A good time was had by all! 

[DehNutCase]

29 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

Dragon fang Alm only fails to ORKO 5 units with +Atk and fury. 1 less KO is nothing compared to his greater utility elsewhere 

Dragon Fang Alm fails 19 KOs versus the TA 3, Sword Breaker combo.

 

That's not 1 less KO, that's 10 less.

(And I used Life & Death in place of Fury, Fury fails 23, death blow does best at 17 failed KOs)

Basically: Rather than the majority of blues dying anyway, the majority of blues now live.

 

Edit: +Def/-Res Fury 3 Lucina, +Spd/-Res Fury 3 Chrom, and +Def/-Res Fury 3 Marth also have 0 losing matchups on offense. (There's more builds that work, of course.) Not losing isn't exactly hard to do.

 

Double Edit: That said, I guess the main issue I have with your build is that you've turned Alm into Marth-lite. Nothing wrong with Marth-lite, but it does completely ignore Alm's own niche. Chrom has the fact that he's the least disadvantaged breakers and TA3, he has the Atk to brute force through TA, and is slow enough that breakers don't change anything. Lucina is the 'just bulky enough' glass cannon, even L&D it's hard to 1HKO her, meaning she has the best turn 1 offenses. Marth is basically Wo Dao Selena, fair bulk, decent offenses. Good for off-tanking and taking the occasional KO. Alm has his own niche as an off-tank and chipper---worse offenses than Marth, but much better at providing sustained damage since he doesn't pay HP to attack people.

Again, nothing wrong with the build, just... very slightly grating, I suppose. It may well be that Marth-lite is the best build for Alm in the meta, but it's not a niche only Alm can fill, if you know what I mean. (I mean, technically Marth can rob Alm and take his role, but that's quite pricey---something that often matters. Takumi might be the best archer, but I'm not going to run him as my Brave Bow user over Klein, because it's just too much investment.)

Edited April 19, 2017 by DehNutCase

[eclipse]

17 hours ago, Birdy said:

@eclipse, since when do you go under the name 'Fortuo' on FE: Heroes?

 

I WISH!  Merric hasn't come home, and my one Nino is something like -Spd. 

[Kaden]

40 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

I'm not sure if you understood that I was joking but okay? XD

I wasn't being serious at all! Maybe I should've made it more clear . . . . . . . .

Just giving people friendly advice. :p

[DehNutCase]

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I WISH!  Merric hasn't come home, and my one Nino is something like -Spd. 

33/33 offenses is still amazing for a mage. It's =Tharja tier, for reference.

 

Edit: If I hadn't rolled so many dice to get a great starting lineup, my budget builds definitely would've included Nino, no matter the IV. She's just that good.

Edited April 19, 2017 by DehNutCase

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

33/33 offenses is still amazing for a mage. It's =Tharja tier, for reference.

She'd be right at home with 33 Speed Young Tiki/Lucina.  I think it's a curse or something.  Regardless, I want to train one that's at least neutral in both Attack and Speed.

[DehNutCase]

Just now, eclipse said:

She'd be right at home with 33 Speed Young Tiki/Lucina.  I think it's a curse or something.  Regardless, I want to train one that's at least neutral in both Attack and Speed.

Any reason not to train this 'bad' one and just inherit her to the good one later? This way you get to skip the SP grind and just crystal her up to 40.

 

Side note: I love how the merge skill inheritance works, letting you keep 'learned' skills as 'learned' rather than merely 'possible.'

[eclipse]

Just now, DehNutCase said:

Any reason not to train this 'bad' one and just inherit her to the good one later? This way you get to skip the SP grind and just crystal her up to 40.

 

Side note: I love how the merge skill inheritance works, letting you keep 'learned' skills as 'learned' rather than merely 'possible.'

She's already up to level 19 or something, and she's a 3*.  Not much to learn, sadly!  Hoping to pull a 4* with a half-decent boon/bane combo.

[DehNutCase]

Just now, eclipse said:

She's already up to level 19 or something, and she's a 3*.  Not much to learn, sadly!  Hoping to pull a 4* with a half-decent boon/bane combo.

Hmm, I meant do stuff like Inherit L&D onto her and learning those, letting you skip the SP grind for inherited skills.

 

But I can see why you'd want to wait until a decent IV'd Nino pops out first.

[eclipse]

Just now, DehNutCase said:

Hmm, I meant do stuff like Inherit L&D onto her and learning those, letting you skip the SP grind for inherited skills.

 

But I can see why you'd want to wait until a decent IV'd Nino pops out first.

No one to inherit L&D from - Hana is going to be merged due to my trained one being -Atk (and the free ones were previously merged), and I haven't pulled Jaffar/Minerva (not like I'd sacrifice either of them).

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

No one to inherit L&D from - Hana is going to be merged due to my trained one being -Atk (and the free ones were previously merged), and I haven't pulled Jaffar/Minerva (not like I'd sacrifice either of them).

Ouch, that must hurt. (I'm spoiled because I pulled like 5 Hanas in addition to my free pair.)

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

Ouch, that must hurt. (I'm spoiled because I pulled like 5 Hanas in addition to my free pair.)

It means I need to be all the more creative with my skills (hence why I have Glimmer!Virion).  I welcome the challenge!

[Extrasolar]

1 hour ago, DehNutCase said:

His role is off-tank and chipping. He doesn't take damage when chipping except against close-counter mages, which don't have the defensive stats to require chipping in the first place. His balanced spread means that he's decently difficult to double, and single hits find it very hard to KO him. (Effie manages, but exactly, meaning any defensive A skill, boon, or S-seal will let him live). This combined with his Windsweep means that he's excellent for dealing either the first bit of damage or the last bit, whichever bit saves you more damage, and then tanking any EP retaliation. (Last bit vs. Vantage users, first bit vs. guys your damage dealer can't KO without taking a counter.)

Ohh, okay, this is really helpful. Yeah, his role is a lot different than I thought it would be.

Tested something out, and tossed him on a sustain heavy, slow burn grind down and debuff team rather than a rushdown team like my main.

5* Alm with vanilla skills, 4* Clarine (with Fear and Swift-Winds Balm) 5* Faye with vanilla skills, and my 5* M!Robin with vanilla skills.

Basically using Clarine to debuff melee sweepers like Lucina, poke without fear of retribution with Faye, facetank and deal good damage with Alm, and kill with M!Robin. Working pretty well for me thus far, though of course I'm gonna have to mess with SI for the others to make it even better.

On a side note, I was just up against a Marth with vanilla skills, same level as Alm. Funny enough, they both did exactly 19 damage to each other. Granted, my Alm won out because of better HP.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Extrasolar