Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[DehNutCase]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

So, guys, looking at my units and stuff, I was just thinking. Darting Blow on my Marth. He's -spd, so this could kinda fix it. I have an...interestingly enough, Caeda that can give it to him. lol She never worked well for me, so I don't care to keep her.

Good idea here? I think it is, but I'd like a second opinion. Maybe there's something even better?

37 speed with Darting Blow isn't bad, but, if you assume Fury 3, it won't be doubling anything of note.

 

Better to build a bulky set with Fury 3, (maybe renewal), and have him leverage his great bulk to whittle people down over multiple rounds, I think.

Edited April 15, 2017 by DehNutCase

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Man, Hit and Run might be one of my favourite skills now. Being able to gtfo back to a healer/dancer is amazing. I put Armored Blow on Clair, so that should hopefully help her survivability; I don't have a healer on my Arena team.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

37 speed with Darting Blow isn't bad, but, if you assume Fury 3, it wont' be doubling anything of note.

 

Better to build a bulky set with Fury 3, (maybe renewal), and have him leverage his great bulk to whittle people down over multiple rounds, I think.

Um, Marth doesn't have much bulk though. Neither his def nor his res go past 30. At least on mine.

Also, my Marth would get 38 speed with Darting Blow 3, actually, because he holds the Speed+1 seal too. Also, of course that much speed will double some things. That's a LOT of speed. And my Marth was already doubling things in the arena once in awhile.

I don't have access to Fury or Renewal. Plus, Marth has built-in Renewal in Falchion anyway, so that's redundant.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Anacybele

[Arcanite]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Um, Marth doesn't have much bulk though. Neither his def nor his res go past 30. At least on mine.

Also, my Marth would get 38 speed with Darting Blow 3, actually, because he holds the Speed+1 seal too. Also, of course that much speed will double some things. That's a LOT of speed.

Fury 3 wins more match ups 

Life and death wins more match ups too 

So no, darting isn't worth

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Arcanite said:

Fury 3 wins more match ups 

Life and death wins more match ups too 

So no, darting isn't worth

I disagree. Fury literally hurts your units. I'd much rather not make them easier to kill. Life and Death has a similar effect as well, I believe, and I don't even have access to either one. Darting Blow would still be better.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Anacybele

[DehNutCase]

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Um, Marth doesn't have much bulk though. Neither his def nor his res go past 30. At least on mine.

Also, my Marth would get 38 speed with Darting Blow 3, actually, because he holds the Speed+1 seal too.

29 Def is quite good for a speedy sword like Marth. His bulk is only -3\-5 compared to Selena's, and she's a hell of a wall.

 

On top of his decent defenses, he also has +4 hp on Selena, meaning, as long as he doesn't get his ass doubled, he actually has better physical bulk and only slightly worse magical bulk for 1 round. (Selena comes out on top in short bursts of combat, but Falchion renewal gives Marth excellent longevity. 16MT on top of his 31 Atk stat also hurts like hell.)

 

Edit: Also, Fury makes your units HARDER to kill. 3 Spd matters. So does +3Def\Res. For 2 combats, it's guaranteed to be better (you lose 6 hp from the first, but for the second you have the same EHP as a naked unit (+3Def\Res, so 6 less damage) if the first didn't double, while still managing to have 3 more speed to prevent doubles. If you're getting doubled or braved, Fury is always better than naked.

Edited April 15, 2017 by DehNutCase

[Anacybele]

Just now, DehNutCase said:

29 Def is quite good for a speedy sword like Marth. His bulk is only -3\-5 compared to Selena's, and she's a hell of a wall.

 

On top of his decent defenses, he also has +4 hp on Selena, meaning, as long as he doesn't get his ass doubled, he actually has better physical bulk and only slightly worse magical bulk for 1 round. (Selena comes out on top in short bursts of combat, but Falchion renewal gives Marth excellent longevity. 16MT on top of his 31 Atk stat also hurts like hell.)

I don't consider it good though. Not when I have a Frederick with 39 def before Armored Blow kicks in.

[Arcanite]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I disagree. Fury literally hurts your units. I'd much rather not make them easier to kill. Life and Death has a similar effect as well, I believe. Darting Blow would still be better.

Made a little error actually in my calculations, fury loses by a few matchups 

Darting Blow is better than fury 

Life and death gets the most though

So it's really up to you 

Spoiler

I'd go fury since Falchion has innate renewal anyway

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by Arcanite

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

I don't consider it good though. Not when I have a Frederick with 39 def before Armored Blow kicks in.

...Do you look at numbers or match-ups?

Look at match-ups, not numbers.

 

Lucina, for example, has great bulk despite how it looks, because even L&D Lucina almost never gets 1HKOd, while she 1RKO most people herself.

[MrSmokestack]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I disagree. Fury literally hurts your units. I'd much rather not make them easier to kill. Life and Death has a similar effect as well, I believe. Darting Blow would still be better.

Fury recoil can't kill your units. And even then, Marth's Falchion goes a long way in offsetting the toll it takes on his health.

Darting Blow isn't the same as a permanent boost to your stats, and Marth is more defined by his well-rounded stat spread than being a speedy sword. Yours specifically being -Spd keeps him from getting doubled less **while attacking**. Marth will still get doubled on enemy phase with Darting Blow.

Fury and Life and Death get used more over Darting Blow for good reason. LaD might not be as practical on Marth, but he definitely gets more from Fury than he does Darting Blow.

Edited April 15, 2017 by MrSmokestack

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, DehNutCase said:

...Do you look at numbers or match-ups?

Look at match-ups, not numbers.

 

Lucina, for example, has great bulk despite how it looks, because even L&D Lucina almost never gets 1HKOd, while she 1RKO most people herself.

How am I supposed to look at matchups when I literally have no matchups to look at on my screen? I'm looking at my characters and their skills. No matches there.

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

How am I supposed to look at matchups when I literally have no matchups to look at on my screen? I'm looking at my characters and their skills. No matches there.

Look at a character's stats. Compare them to another. Do math.

 

Edit: Or you can use one of the calculators floating around, or make a spreadsheet like a lot of people.

Edited April 15, 2017 by DehNutCase

[MaskedAmpharos]

16 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

So, guys, looking at my units and stuff, I was just thinking. Darting Blow on my Marth. He's -spd, so this could kinda fix it. I have an...interestingly enough, Caeda that can give it to him. lol She never worked well for me, so I don't care to keep her.

Good idea here? I think it is, but I'd like a second opinion. Maybe there's something even better?

So based on matchup spread, it goes:

• Life and Death > Darting Blow > Fury on player phase
• Life and Death > Fury >>> Darting Blow on enemy phase

Pick based on whether Marth spends more time attacking on player phase or defending on enemy phase and on skill availability. 

EDIT: Also here's a mass matchup calculator you can use: https://rocketmo.github.io/feh-damage-calc/

Edited April 15, 2017 by MaskedAmpharos

[Arcanite]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

How am I supposed to look at matchups when I literally have no matchups to look at on my screen? I'm looking at my characters and their skills. No matches there.

This helps.

Here you go!

Just put in Marf, all his skills, bane and boon, and then alternate Fury, Darting, and Life and death

MAKE SURE YOU CLICK ONE VS ALL

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Fury recoil can't kill your units. And even then, Marth's Falchion goes a long way in offsetting the toll it takes on his health.

Darting Blow isn't the same as a permanent boost to your stats, and Marth is more defined by his well-rounded stat spread than being a speedy sword. Yours specifically being -Spd keeps him from getting doubled less **while attacking**. Marth will still get doubled on enemy phase with Darting Blow.

Fury and Life and Death get used more over Darting Blow for good reason. LaD might not be as practical on Marth, but he definitely gets more from Fury than he does Darting Blow.

Duh, Fury doesn't actually kill, but the enemies will after Fury drains all that HP. Marth's Falchion will only restore health every three turns. Fury takes HP off every turn.

There's no good reason to use Fury or Life and Death. And like I said, I have no one with those skills.

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Look at a character's stats. Compare them to another. Do math.

Isn't that what I JUST did by comparing Frederick's def to Marth's? Compared to Frederick, Marth doesn't have a lot of bulk.

[DehNutCase]

9 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

So based on matchup spread, it goes:

• Life and Death > Darting Blow > Fury on player phase
• Life and Death > Fury >>> Darting Blow on enemy phase

Pick based on whether Marth spends more time attacking on player phase or defending on enemy phase and on skill availability. 

Don't forget to adjust for brave-users. L&D looks good on paper because very few relevant units have brave weapons, but if you factor in inheritance L&D turns you into a massive liability on EP vs. kitted braves.

 

Edit:

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Duh, Fury doesn't actually kill, but the enemies will after Fury drains all that HP. Marth's Falchion will only restore health every three turns. Fury takes HP off every turn.

There's no good reason to use Fury or Life and Death. And like I said, I have no one with those skills.

Isn't that what I JUST did by comparing Frederick's def to Marth's? Compared to Frederick, Marth doesn't have a lot of bulk.

Marth with -spd\+... let's call it Hp, since I don't remember. No inheritance:

vs.

Frederick with Silver Axe+ (better than hammer for this matchup) Armoured Blow 3, theoretical Def + 1 seal, +Def\-Res IV:

Frederick initiates: 50 Atk - 50 * .2 = 40 damage. 40 - 29 def = 11 damage.

-Spd Marth has 31 speed, easily doubling Frederick back for:

47 base + 47 * .2 = 56 damage. 56 - (39 + 1 + 6) = 10 damage each hit, 20 damage total.

 

Absolutely naked Marth with -Spd\+Hp is 5HKOd by Frederick, and 2RKOs him in return. (During EP, Frederick doesn't get Armoured blow and takes 32 damage for lethal).

 

This is what I mean by math. You do the combat math.

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by DehNutCase

[MaskedAmpharos]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Duh, Fury doesn't actually kill, but the enemies will after Fury drains all that HP. Marth's Falchion will only restore health every three turns. Fury takes HP off every turn.

There's no good reason to use Fury or Life and Death. And like I said, I have no one with those skills.

Isn't that what I JUST did by comparing Frederick's def to Marth's? Compared to Frederick, Marth doesn't have a lot of bulk.

If you don't want to use Fury or Life and Death and/or have no one with those skills, then it looks like your decision's made for you. No skill besides those two beats out Darting Blow for you off the top of my head (except for Swift Sparrow, but you're in no position to sacrifice a 5* Easter Lucina, even if you had one). 

Also, directly comparing defense like that is misleading. Speed actually invisibly contributes a lot to a unit's bulk. 

A lot of the time, a unit with 39 def getting hit twice takes more damage than a unit with 30 def that only gets hit once.

Also the two roles are incomparable. Frederick is meant to be a tank, so of course he'll be more defensive than Marth, who is meant to be a speedier damage dealer. You shouldn't be comparing Marth's defenses to Frederick but rather comparing his defenses to other sword users like Lucina or Hana, in which case Marth actually is fairly bulky for his role. 

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

So based on matchup spread, it goes:

• Life and Death > Darting Blow > Fury on player phase
• Life and Death > Fury >>> Darting Blow on enemy phase

Pick based on whether Marth spends more time attacking on player phase or defending on enemy phase and on skill availability. 

EDIT: Also here's a mass matchup calculator you can use: https://rocketmo.github.io/feh-damage-calc/

I already said I disagree on those skills being better, so while I thank you for trying to help, it's not going to work for me.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Isn't that what I JUST did by comparing Frederick's def to Marth's? Compared to Frederick, Marth doesn't have a lot of bulk.

He means compare your units against common enemies you see in the Arena, to see how Marth would fare in combat against normally, with Fury added, and with Life and Death added.

Lol Ana does it again.

Edited April 15, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[MaskedAmpharos]

Just now, Anacybele said:

I already said I disagree on those skills being better, so while I thank you for trying to help, it's not going to work for me.

I typed that out before you said you weren't going to use them :/

In any case, I posted another response right above your most recent post, in case you missed it. 

[MrSmokestack]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Duh, Fury doesn't actually kill, but the enemies will after Fury drains all that HP. Marth's Falchion will only restore health every three turns. Fury takes HP off every turn.

There's no good reason to use Fury or Life and Death. And like I said, I have no one with those skills.

It's fine if you don't have any units that can pass Fury or Life and Death to begin with--the latter of which is still exclusive to 5* units--but Darting Blow still isn't better.

Last time I checked, dead enemy units can't kill Marth. Even if Marth gets hit and drops to low HP, chances are the next attack that comes to finish him off will have the same result whether he has 7 HP or 1. Although Falchion's Renewal does only activate on every third turn, practically speaking it will activate the turn after Marth first initiates combat, considering the first turn is usually spent repositioning your units anyway. It doesn't start counting down after Marth takes damage; it's effect can apply even if Marth has full HP.

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

It's fine if you don't have any units that can pass Fury or Life and Death to begin with--the latter of which is still exclusive to 5* units--but Darting Blow still isn't better.

Last time I checked, dead enemy units can't kill Marth. Even if Marth gets hit and drops to low HP, chances are the next attack that comes to finish him off will have the same result whether he has 7 HP or 1. Although Falchion's Renewal does only activate on every third turn, practically speaking it will activate the turn after Marth first initiates combat, considering the first turn is usually spent repositioning your units anyway. It doesn't start counting down after Marth takes damage; it's effect can apply even if Marth has full HP.

Last time I checked, live enemy units CAN kill Marth. It's not like he can kill everything on one turn, you know. And it's not like every enemy will be a green or dragon that he can pick off easily.

And I still don't think those skills are better than Darting Blow. Darting Blow increases speed on one phase WITHOUT sacrificing HP or other stats. The others DO sacrifice one which is harmful. Fury is the worst of all because it not only hurts your unit, but also your arena score because your score is based on how many units you have alive at the end and how full their HP is.

5 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

He means compare your units against common enemies you see in the Arena, to see how Marth would fare in combat against normally, with Fury added, and with Life and Death added.

Oh, well, he didn't say that. He just said compare one unit with another and that's it. My mistake.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Anacybele

[Bartozio]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

Last time I checked, live enemy units CAN kill Marth. It's not like he can kill everything on one turn, you know. And it's not like every enemy will be a green or dragon that he can pick off easily.

And I still don't think those skills are better than Darting Blow. Darting Blow increases speed on one phase WITHOUT sacrificing HP or other stats. The others DO sacrifice one which is harmful. Fury is the worst of all because it not only hurts your unit, but also your arena score because your score is based on how many units you have alive at the end and how full their HP is.

Oh, well, he didn't say that. He just said compare one unit with another and that's it. My mistake.

Pretty sure arena score only depends on number of allies that are alive, not the amount of HP they have left. sacrificing HP can be worth it if you can kill the enemy with it. Also, since your Fredric can tank most units, Marth doesn't need to tank as much and will enoy the higher offence.

Not that any of this matters, since you do not have the ability to give Marth these skills, but hopefully you can at least see they are usefull in some curcumstances.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Bartozio said:

Pretty sure arena score only depends on number of allies that are alive, not the amount of HP they have left. sacrificing HP can be worth it if you can kill the enemy with it. Also, since your Fredric can tank most units, Marth doesn't need to tank as much and will enoy the higher offence.

Not that any of this matters, since you do not have the ability to give Marth these skills, but hopefully you can at least see they are usefull in some curcumstances.

Then why have I gotten different scores for keeping all my units alive on the same difficulty before? I'm pretty sure HP level is a factor.

Now that I think about it, I think Hana gets Life and Death and I do have her, but I still don't wish to use it because you guys keep talking about Marth's bulk, yet it lowers his def and res, I believe.

[Bartozio]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Then why have I gotten different scores for keeping all my units alive on the same difficulty before? I'm pretty sure HP level is a factor.

Now that I think about it, I think Hana gets Life and Death and I do have her, but I still don't wish to use it because you guys keep talking about Marth's bulk, yet it lowers his def and res, I believe.

Arena score depends on the team you fight. When you pick your opponent, you can see the range of the score you get for winning right? You'll notice it is not always the same, even on the same difficulty. This is because different teams give a different score. The matchmaker will find a team in a certain range, not  an exact number.

Also, yes, Life and Death lowers Marths bulk, but gives him more attack and speed. More speed means he gets doubles less, which can mean less damage (also more kills, and dead enemies don't deal damage). It can also mean more damage it other cases though. Really dependent on the circumstances and what you want from him.