I've learned some valuable lessons about this game lately.

[Shiro]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

I use my 4 star Sakura over Lissa now though, because she'll stay alive easier, and I gave her Pain to help knock some HP down without killing the enemies so the units I'm trying to train can kill them. It's especially handy for armors.

But yeah, I tend to focus on only one or two units at a time when training. Like how most of my focus has been on Michalis and kinda sorta Marth. I love making them fight together, because they apparently hate each other. XD

Another issue is getting favorable maps though. It seems like every time I try to train one color unit, I end up with a lot of maps that have a lot of units that the unit I'm trying to train is weak to. I was trying to level up Stahl and Abel and I ended up with too many blue and green units. And I ended up with a lot of maps that have a bunch of red units when trying to level up Michalis...

My advice if you want to focus one or 2 heroes to lvl is to use a dancer/singer alongside a healer that can heal for insane amounts eg. mend +imbue alongisde a mage or not depending on who you want level up. I also personally take off the weapons on the heroes i dont want to level. so Mages would benefit best as taking out tanks would be much easier. But if you want to level a non magic user youll need a mage to take out the tanks but that also means you cant auto battle as much. but yeah i suggest you take out weapons to maximize yhe focus hero you want to max to fullest potential.

[Sunwoo]

4 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

All good. It was all in jest. Though light sarcasm is rather difficult to pull off in a forum environment.

There are also some things that one just shouldn't jest about in general, though. Especially if it involves real people and you don't know either of them (or even just one of them) very well.

[MaskedAmpharos]

I'm just glad you've learned from the past and are adopting a more positive and willing-to-learn attitude because that'll help you more in this game than any number of 5* units. Off the top of my head, I think a lot of what needs to be said has already been covered, but if you have any questions in the future I'll of course do what I can to help!

[Falcom]

It's nice to see you finally starting to understand and I wish you the best of luck for the future and hope you pull Ike once he releases. Seriously hope you and shadowofchaos become good friends too.

Even if you don't like some characters, they aren't bad. I'm sure you can understand that without me needing to give you an example. Heck, it also works the complete opposite (in which those characters are not as good compared to others). But don't let that (tier list) crush your dreams, you have Frederick. Show other players that Frederick can be awesome! I have him and he's certainly proving to be helpful for my lunatic quests. Overall, there is no bad character, but there is also no good character either despite there being a tier list. It's as you said, each character fills a niche. Everyone has a strength, and everyone has a weakness. Perfect is not possible. You simply find a way to get better. And that way is to try every character (even if you think they're bad) and learn to train them more efficiently and find ways to make them more powerful (aka skill inheritance).

I was gonna say that you probably can't beat the Michalis map at this point as you were struggling constantly, but I figured you were going to realize sooner or later. Glad to know you did. Boons and Banes mean absolutely nothing to me and so should you too. My Lucina is -SPD which sucks but I didn't let that ruin my determination. Lucina is still very good despite that bane (and even if she's top tier, that would be because of her speed). I would never replace that Lucina if I got a duplicate with a better boon/bane (just like I do with all my characters), heck that's actually better since I can merge them so she can perhaps gain more speed without me needing to train that duplicate.

I'm not saying that you should keep one of every character (not unless your a collector like me). Rather, try to have more variety with your team. Have 2-4 of each weapon type/color, even if some are bad, at least you're prepared. And once you have another unit that you like, you can simply replace the other unit you don't like. Or use both if you like both of them. The option to send home characters is completely up to you. Just don't say that the reason you sent them home is because they're bad without even trying them.

If you need any more help, just ask anyone here and they'll be glad to help, as long as you don't push them away. I learned that the hard way.

TIP: As SOC said, reset the maps by surrendering on the starting stratum.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Falcom

[Cute Chao]

I hope you keep reporting how you're getting on - whether your enjoyment of the game improves, etc, etc. It'd be interesting to see. 

I'm a collector myself - one of every character with the intention to at least four star lvl 40 as many as possible. I've found it good to use a lot of different characters - even my truly hated one :)

That being said, fingers crossed for Magvel and Tellius soon. I want a unit from every game on my main account and FE8, 9 and 10 are all missing (plus Gaiden but that one's obvious).

[Anacybele]

53 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I think SoC has a girlfriend already, and Frederick would get jealous if Ana was with SoC.

Fixed for ya, Rezzy. lol I love Ike, but not that way. XD Freddy is more my type of love material. <3 Though I guess if someone like Ike WERE to ask me out...I'm not sure I could say no. :3

And yeah, SOC apparently is with someone named Belinda, I think. He talks about her a lot. Which is cool, I'd talk about my lover a lot too!

I'm with no one... Maybe someday. Maybe never. I don't even know if someone could love me, the way my behavior is at times... Eh, just gotta see where life takes you.

58 minutes ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

It's all good. 

I think overall, you were having a bad day. Everyone has those times when we need to vent, including myself, and it just doesn't go very well because we all acted on our emotions at that given time. 

  Hide contents

I actually made the same mistake, but way worse. Almost two years ago, I was on another forum, and I was in a very, very bad mood. I acted in a similar manner, and as a result, I was nearly banned (my behaviour was WAY worse than anyone's that I've seen on here). I haven't gone back to this day because of the altercation. In fact, I was hesitant to join here (or anywhere, for that matter) because of it. 

I've definitely grown up since then, mentally, and I thank you, @Anacybele and @shadowofchaos, for helping me realize that, even if it was a less than savory experience. And the altercation I played witness to in the Michalis thread (vaguely) reminded me of my past, though not nearly as intense. Actually, my past prompted me to act the way I did here. I do believe Shadowofchaos had your best interests in mind, but I also believe he had no right to complain about it the way he did. I just don't want anyone to make the same mistakes I did. 

Apologies for rambling on.

(oh well, now I'mma ship you two in private now XD) 

You're a little late about that not making the same mistake thing. I actually was banned from a forum for too much bad behavior. I've improved a lot since then too. But sometimes we have bad days, yeah, and I've been unlucky in this game a lot too.

But I'm glad some of you guys are willing to put up with me! I really appreciate it. Especially SOC, you know? I mean, I probably will still get tired of how much he calls me out, but... now that I think about it, he wouldn't do it so much if he didn't really think I could listen and improve, would he? He keeps going at it while some people would've just given up. I have to admire that. I really do. I guess to repay him, I have to start listening to him more. And maybe let him criticize me as much as he wants (just keep it civil lol).

Surrendering on the first stratum to reset the maps... That's clever. Why didn't I think of that? It still uses stamina, but not much. Thanks for the tip!

Frederick's my man in the game right now. My leader, my best unit, etc. Yeah, not giving him up for anything. Not after I poured tons of feathers and units into him to make him a 5 star WALL OF DEATH. I got Frederick, you're right.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Anacybele

[Sunwoo]

I think it'll be great if you really do learn to listen to Rey and people who know the game better. Being able to admit that your first impressions of a unit or things that you are doing may not have been right isn't a weakness. Because none of us are perfect.

Also, the people here argue with you and try to help you because they still do believe you can learn and they hope you will listen to them one day, no matter how many arguments it takes. If people really didn't care about you, then no one would even acknowledge you, and the fact that they do shows that they still want you to improve and think you can. You're all right to talk to, when we're just talking about stuff and not arguing, and it'd be nice if one day we could just talk about random stuff about FE without any yelling involved.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:

I think it'll be great if you really do learn to listen to Rey and people who know the game better. Being able to admit that your first impressions of a unit or things that you are doing may not have been right isn't a weakness. Because none of us are perfect.

Also, the people here argue with you and try to help you because they still do believe you can learn and they hope you will listen to them one day, no matter how many arguments it takes. If people really didn't care about you, then no one would even acknowledge you, and the fact that they do shows that they still want you to improve and think you can. You're all right to talk to, when we're just talking about stuff and not arguing, and it'd be nice if one day we could just talk about random stuff about FE without any yelling involved.

Yeah, well said here, Sangyul. And thanks... At times I'd feel like I was worthless, like I can't get anywhere anymore because I keep messing up. But if I keep having people believe in me like you're saying, I can't give up!

I find I do better in one-on-one conversations than group ones. It's how I've been able to connect with people like Randoman, Dragoncat, and more. The people that I met in group conversations that resulted in some trouble...yeah, that never went anywhere.

And yeah, definitely would like to be in more group conversations that just remain fun and don't involve yelling and arguing.

Still, I was serious whenever I said I wasn't afraid to be wrong or that I can definitely admit to being wrong. I think there are just some things I find more embarrassing to be wrong about than others. Better get over that, I guess.

[Sunwoo]

You're definitely not the only person who messes up at times, even a lot. I mean, I've messed up a lot in Heroes (and in general) and failed at things too, but I'm also the type of person who generally does not like to talk about stuff in public. There are lots of people who just don't talk about the stuff that doesn't go right in public, or don't ask for help on it.

Embarrassment is just a natural part of life, there's really no way around it. But I think if you can eventually not be embarrassed about being wrong about certain things, you'll be better off, but it'll just take time to get there. You'll always be embarrassed about certain things and at certain times, so the trick is to not let people know that it bothers you and to gracefully admit that you made a mistake. If you're able to admit a mistake gracefully, people remember that you took it well and learned a new thing, rather than that you were flustered and embarrassed and couldn't let it drop.

[Anacybele]

43 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

You're definitely not the only person who messes up at times, even a lot. I mean, I've messed up a lot in Heroes (and in general) and failed at things too, but I'm also the type of person who generally does not like to talk about stuff in public. There are lots of people who just don't talk about the stuff that doesn't go right in public, or don't ask for help on it.

Embarrassment is just a natural part of life, there's really no way around it. But I think if you can eventually not be embarrassed about being wrong about certain things, you'll be better off, but it'll just take time to get there. You'll always be embarrassed about certain things and at certain times, so the trick is to not let people know that it bothers you and to gracefully admit that you made a mistake. If you're able to admit a mistake gracefully, people remember that you took it well and learned a new thing, rather than that you were flustered and embarrassed and couldn't let it drop.

Well, I meant messing up in life as well as in games, but I see. And yeah, I suppose... I mean, I may seem like a vocal person here online, but in real life...I actually barely talk to people at all and prefer to keep to myself. I'm very afraid of embarrassing myself irl, truth be told, and I'm shy and quiet as a result. I have a stutter in my speech which embarrasses me too.

But it's good to know that I'm not the only one that messes up in Heroes a bunch. I guess I also felt like nobody did but me.

[eclipse]

31 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Well, I meant messing up in life as well as in games, but I see. And yeah, I suppose... I mean, I may seem like a vocal person here online, but in real life...I actually barely talk to people at all and prefer to keep to myself. I'm very afraid of embarrassing myself irl, truth be told, and I'm shy and quiet as a result. I have a stutter in my speech which embarrasses me too.

But it's good to know that I'm not the only one that messes up in Heroes a bunch. I guess I also felt like nobody did but me.

Screwing up in Heroes is the least of my worries.  In the end, it's a game, so if I mess something up, it won't cause me to starve or something.  That's why I'm willing to throw things together and experiment like crazy.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Screwing up in Heroes is the least of my worries.  In the end, it's a game, so if I mess something up, it won't cause me to starve or something.  That's why I'm willing to throw things together and experiment like crazy.

Well, when I want to be better and I see all these other people doing really well with all their 5 stars, strategies, etc. it makes me feel a bit down. xP

[eclipse]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Well, when I want to be better and I see all these other people doing really well with all their 5 stars, strategies, etc. it makes me feel a bit down. xP

I'm the type that learns best by doing.  If something doesn't work, I figure out what went wrong and why, then plan accordingly.  It's something I enjoy doing, especially when there's no consequences for messing up badly!

[Anacybele]

Just now, eclipse said:

I'm the type that learns best by doing.  If something doesn't work, I figure out what went wrong and why, then plan accordingly.  It's something I enjoy doing, especially when there's no consequences for messing up badly!

Sometimes I just don't ever see what went wrong though...

[MrSmokestack]

2 hours ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

It's all good. 

I think overall, you were having a bad day. Everyone has those times when we need to vent, including myself, and it just doesn't go very well because we all acted on our emotions at that given time. 

I've definitely grown up since then, mentally, and I thank you, @Anacybele and @shadowofchaos, for helping me realize that, even if it was a less than savory experience. And the altercation I played witness to in the Michalis thread (vaguely) reminded me of my past, though not nearly as intense. Actually, my past prompted me to act the way I did here. I do believe Shadowofchaos had your best interests in mind, but I also believe he had no right to complain about it the way he did. I just don't want anyone to make the same mistakes I did. 

I was following this thread for a while but wasn't sure what to say until I saw this. 

When I have to have a say on something, sometimes I just let it out without regard to consequences, which has had some admittedly embarassing results in other situations. I recognize that it's something I need to work on but it's far from easy.

@Anacybele, it's great that you've owned up to your mistakes and that you're willing to learn from them. It's human to mess up, but the good news is that we are not defined by our mistakes.

That said, I hope I haven't come off as hostile in any posts I've made addressing you, since that was never my intent. I want to see you improve as much as everybody else does here, even if the lack of tone over text might betray my message at times. Best of luck to you!

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

I was following this thread for a while but wasn't sure what to say until I saw this. 

When I have to have a say on something, sometimes I just let it out without regard to consequences, which has had some admittedly embarassing results in other situations. I recognize that it's something I need to work on but it's far from easy.

@Anacybele, it's great that you've owned up to your mistakes and that you're willing to learn from them. It's human to mess up, but the good news is that we are not defined by our mistakes.

That said, I hope I haven't come off as hostile in any posts I've made addressing you, since that was never my intent. I want to see you improve as much as everybody else does here, even if the lack of tone over text might betray my message at times. Best of luck to you!

Nah, don't worry, I don't recall you being too hostile with me.

But yeah, it's human to mess up, it's just more mature to own up to that, learn from it, and move on.

Why is some of that text bigger than the rest? o.O

[MrSmokestack]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Nah, don't worry, I don't recall you being too hostile with me.

But yeah, it's human to mess up, it's just more mature to own up to that, learn from it, and move on.

Why is some of that text bigger than the rest? o.O

That's good to hear.

Oh yeah, blame that on mobile formatting. Whenever I copy and paste text, the font size is larger for some reason.

Like this.

Like this.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, MrSmokestack said:

That's good to hear.

Oh yeah, blame that on mobile formatting. Whenever I copy and paste text, the font size is larger for some reason.

Like this.

Like this.

Oh. huh. That's rather odd.

[MaskedAmpharos]

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

Sometimes I just don't ever see what went wrong though...

That's exactly what we're here for! As long as you remember enough of the situation to be able to tell us what happened, we should be able to help you figure out what you could do to improve. Screenshots also go a long way towards helping people get a grasp of the situation. 

Also, if you'd like, someone like me or SoC could teach you how to do calculations (it's actually quite simple) so that you could theorize what units to bring to maps like GHBs (which have fixed units and stats) before even going in, instead of wasting stamina trying again and again. Because they took out crit and dodge in Heroes, you'll be able to tell with 100% certainty what will or won't kill a unit before even taking them into battle, once you figure out how. 

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

That's exactly what we're here for! As long as you remember enough of the situation to be able to tell us what happened, we should be able to help you figure out what you could do to improve. Screenshots also go a long way towards helping people get a grasp of the situation. 

Also, if you'd like, someone like me or SoC could teach you how to do calculations (it's actually quite simple) so that you could theorize what units to bring to maps like GHBs (which have fixed units and stats) before even going in, instead of wasting stamina trying again and again. Because they took out crit and dodge in Heroes, you'll be able to tell with 100% certainty what will or won't kill a unit before even taking them into battle, once you figure out how. 

But I can't screenshot something that's already happened. :/ Are you sure the calculations are simple? Because that stuff tends to fly right over my head and that's why I hit a brick wall in my math courses back in high school. I did fine in Algebra I and aced Geometry like it was nothing, but suddenly, Algebra II and trigonometry were just...uh...yeah.

[Sias]

6 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

But I can't screenshot something that's already happened. :/ Are you sure the calculations are simple? Because that stuff tends to fly right over my head and that's why I hit a brick wall in my math courses back in high school. I did fine in Algebra I and aced Geometry like it was nothing, but suddenly, Algebra II and trigonometry were just...uh...yeah.

https://rocketmo.github.io/feh-damage-calc/

This is a damage calculator that could potentially help you out, but the maths behind it is rather simple most of the time, so that it's definitely possible to do some useful damage estimations in your head while fighting in the arena.

Normal damage is just Atk minus Def or Res, though you potentially need to multiply the attack with 1.5 (for effective damage), 1.2 (for weapon triangle advantage) or 0.8 (for weapon triangle disadvantage) before doing the subtraction. The doubling threshold is also just like in the normal games (5 speed).

The tricky part however is keeping an eye on the influence that skills might have on the result, with stuff like Death Blow increasing Effie's attack on enemy phase or your Frederick's damage being lowered due to a Robin with Spur Defense standing next to your opponent.

[Vaximillian]

5 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I use my 4 star Sakura over Lissa now though, because she'll stay alive easier, and I gave her Pain to help knock some HP down without killing the enemies so the units I'm trying to train can kill them. It's especially handy for armors.

I actually like Lissa (and Wrys, and Priscilla whom I didn't manage to pull because Anna is jealous) more than any other healer thanks to her Rehabilitate.

If only I've got Priscilla even once…

[Anacybele]

17 minutes ago, Sias said:

https://rocketmo.github.io/feh-damage-calc/

This is a damage calculator that could potentially help you out, but the maths behind it is rather simple most of the time, so that it's definitely possible to do some useful damage estimations in your head while fighting in the arena.

Normal damage is just Atk minus Def or Res, though you potentially need to multiply the attack with 1.5 (for effective damage), 1.2 (for weapon triangle advantage) or 0.8 (for weapon triangle disadvantage) before doing the subtraction. The doubling threshold is also just like in the normal games (5 speed).

The tricky part however is keeping an eye on the influence that skills might have on the result, with stuff like Death Blow increasing Effie's attack on enemy phase or your Frederick's damage being lowered due to a Robin with Spur Defense standing next to your opponent.

Yeah, see, there's all those variables to keep in mind, so it feels rather overwhelming.

[LuxSpes]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

But I can't screenshot something that's already happened. :/ Are you sure the calculations are simple? Because that stuff tends to fly right over my head and that's why I hit a brick wall in my math courses back in high school. I did fine in Algebra I and aced Geometry like it was nothing, but suddenly, Algebra II and trigonometry were just...uh...yeah.

There's a page on the Heroes wiki that describe the formula for Damage Calculation, but I have to admit that even I got kind of confused by all the text when I first read it. Now I do have a better understanding of it.

I can try explaining it.  Basically, in it's most simple form, the damage formula goes like this : attacking unit's Atk - attacked units's defense. From there, the weapon triangle must be considered. If you have an advantage, multiply your atk by 1.2 and if you have a disadvantage, multiply it by 0.8. Next is to look at effective damage, like bows vs flyers. In that case, you also need to multiply the Atk stat by 1.5.

So for an example, let's say a neutral Frederick is attacking a neutral Hector :
Frederick's Atk with Hammer+ : 47
Hector's defense : 37

So to know how much damage Fred will deal, we can first ignore the weapon triangle since they're both green. But since Hector is armored, we can multiply Frederick's attack by 1.5 for a total of 70. Which means that Frederick will deal 70-37 = 33 damage.

For the weapon triangle, I'll keep Frederick as the attacker but I'll take Marth(29 def) and Oboro(35 def) as the defender :
Against Marth, Fred's at a disadvantage meaning the formula would be : 47*0.8 - 29 = 38 - 29 = 9 damage
And against Oboro, it would got like this = 47*1.2 - 35 = 56 - 35 = 21 damage.

So in summary the formula is Atk*WPM*Eff - Def where WPM is the weapon triangle modifier and Eff the effective boost of 1.5 if it applies. Proc skills do play a role, but considering the way they work varies among skills, I think it's best to understand the basic formula before adding them to the calculation.

 

The tricky part though is that you need to play close attention to the enemies skills to see how it changes things. For example, Triangle Adept 3 or a Gem weapon changes the weapon triangle mods from 1.2 to 1.4 and from 0.8 to 0.6.

This is where practice comes into play. The more you play the game and become knowledgeable of the damage formula, the more you'll take notice of which passive can affect your damage. One thing I did to help me figure it out is to calculate the damage myself before looking at the combat forecast to see if I got it right. 

And if this all this is too much math for you, not only is there the calculator Sias posted, but I'm pretty sure there'll be people here who'd ready to help you out with it. (I'm the nerd who spent part of a lunch break doing math to figure out that Raudrraven would turn my Sanaki into a green and gray unit delete button)

 

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, LuxSpes said:

There's a page on the Heroes wiki that describe the formula for Damage Calculation, but I have to admit that even I got kind of confused by all the text when I first read it. Now I do have a better understanding of it.

I can try explaining it.  Basically, in it's most simple form, the damage formula goes like this : attacking unit's Atk - attacked units's defense. From there, the weapon triangle must be considered. If you have an advantage, multiply your atk by 1.2 and if you have a disadvantage, multiply it by 0.8. Next is to look at effective damage, like bows vs flyers. In that case, you also need to multiply the Atk stat by 1.5.

So for an example, let's say a neutral Frederick is attacking a neutral Hector :
Frederick's Atk with Hammer+ : 47
Hector's defense : 37

So to know how much damage Fred will deal, we can first ignore the weapon triangle since they're both green. But since Hector is armored, we can multiply Frederick's attack by 1.5 for a total of 70. Which means that Frederick will deal 70-37 = 33 damage.

For the weapon triangle, I'll keep Frederick as the attacker but I'll take Marth(29 def) and Oboro(35 def) as the defender :
Against Marth, Fred's at a disadvantage meaning the formula would be : 47*0.8 - 29 = 38 - 29 = 9 damage
And against Oboro, it would got like this = 47*1.2 - 35 = 56 - 35 = 21 damage.

So in summary the formula is Atk*WPM*Eff - Def where WPM is the weapon triangle modifier and Eff the effective boost of 1.5 if it applies. Proc skills do play a role, but considering the way they work varies among skills, I think it's best to understand the basic formula before adding them to the calculation.

 

The tricky part though is that you need to play close attention to the enemies skills to see how it changes things. For example, Triangle Adept 3 or a Gem weapon changes the weapon triangle mods from 1.2 to 1.4 and from 0.8 to 0.6.

This is where practice comes into play. The more you play the game and become knowledgeable of the damage formula, the more you'll take notice of which passive can affect your damage. One thing I did to help me figure it out is to calculate the damage myself before looking at the combat forecast to see if I got it right. 

And if this all this is too much math for you, not only is there the calculator Sias posted, but I'm pretty sure there'll be people here who'd ready to help you out with it. (I'm the nerd who spent part of a lunch break doing math to figure out that Raudrraven would turn my Sanaki into a green and gray unit delete button)

 

Okay, I think I kind of understand. But one of the reasons I didn't do well in some math classes or physics were formulas. I couldn't grasp them much of the time. But hopefully I can eventually get the hang of this one.

...Yet, put them in a song for me and I'll never forget them for some reason. I still remember the freaking quadratic formula because we were given a song for it in school for crying out loud. And I still find that awkward.