What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Jotari]

29 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I can only think since the fight happened in the middle of a miasma-filled town, the heroes simply surrounded them and there was no room for them to escape. They only live since Alear doesn't feel like killing them, just take the rings and continue towards Elusia Castle.

What's a bit funny about that is that Alear easily could have detained and captured them in terms of gameplay...like the next time we see them is one chapter later where they accompany Alear to dragonland. If they had been captured and then Alear just went to them asking them for info on what Griss was talking about then we're in the exact same place.

[Acacia Sgt]

11 minutes ago, Jotari said:

What's a bit funny about that is that Alear easily could have detained and captured them in terms of gameplay...like the next time we see them is one chapter later where they accompany Alear to dragonland. If they had been captured and then Alear just went to them asking them for info on what Griss was talking about then we're in the exact same place.

I went to check.

Marni and Mauvier flee to... Elusia Castle, since that's where Zephia and Griss were. They get punished, and it seems they remained in the castle (recovering?), since Alear and company are still inside when Mauvier approaches them asking them to help Veyle. Well, he sends Marni back to Givre Port first to prepare the ship they planned to use to reach Lythos.

As it is, if they had been detained... where would they be kept? It's likely they would've dragged them with them. So yeah, same difference.

Edited January 9 by Acacia Sgt

[vanguard333]

13 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

See, I think his appearance at Remire just came out of nowhere. He's just kind of a "hurry up!" feature that most players can completely ignore. Hell, you don't need to visit that side of the map to begin with. It's cool gameplay-wise, to get a couple Crescent Sickles, but they could've easily added those to chapter 6 instead. I'd drop his appearance here, and maybe put a Demonic Beast in his place, if you need a threat.

I honestly think that the only reason the Death Knight is there is not for gameplay reasons, but for story reasons: his presence at Remire ties the Flame Emperor to what Solon was doing, leading to the Flame Emperor having to appear in the aftermath and insist that they were not involved.

 

12 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

In Chapter 20, Griss willingly gives up his ring (though not before still fighting them, at least) so he can see Alear reawaken it and confirm their growing suspicions that Alear is, in fact, a Fell Dragon.

That one I still find strange; it is important to the Four Hounds that they determine whether or not Alear is a Fell Dragon, but, earlier in that very same chapter, they make it clear that the Four Hounds cannot afford to lose any more rings, with Griss berating Marni and Mauvier that there's no point in in trying to take back rings from Alear if they just lose rings in the process.

Not only that, but they had another method for testing if Alear is a Fell Dragon: the dragonstone in Veyle's possession. Veyle told them in chapter 17 that it was given to her by her sole surviving sibling, making them realize that another child of Sombron lives. They could've used the dragonstone instead. So, they had a viable alternative, they emphasized how important it is that they don't lose any more rings, and they gave up a ring to Alear anyway.

[Samz707]

On 1/7/2024 at 9:29 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

I think the Tellius games make a pretty smart move in regards to making the Black Knight intimidating. They incorporate it into the stages. Two times in POR the Black Knight will appear and you'll be completely helpless against him. Don't pursue the Black Knight and all that. Then Radiant Dawn switches it around and its the enemies turn to be completely helpless when you control the Black Knight.

The difference between Ike and BK is probably smaller than between Eliwood and Nergal. But Nergal dominates the cast purely in cutscenes. You don't actually experience it yourself. 

Its a shame the Fire Emblem games kinda lost the ability to make its villains intimidating. These days most of them come off as losers who are probably a lot weaker than the playable characters. The prime example being Team Garon. Iago clearly doesn't come off as very competent or powerful in the grand scheme of things, and Hans is introduced with the notice that Xander has already kicked his ass before. Aside from the little sisters I doubt any of the royals are weaker than Hans and Iago. Thales also never comes across as all that intimidating. Its clear that Edelgard could crush him like a fly, and Dimitri even does so purely by accident. 

The likes of Nergal, Zephiel, the Black Knight or even the likes of Valter and Petrine come off as dangerous and imposing while the likes of validar or Iago come across as mere nuisances at best. Often I think this is reflected in their designs too. Nergal comes across as a dangerous arch mage and Valter like a mad dog, but Validar kinda looks like a mini boss. 

Admittingly I've not played Tellius but I found Death Knight pretty terrifying in Fodlan since my units were always underprepared to fight him for the early stages.

Then Hopes has Byleth who is supposed to be even tougher and scarier who I just effortless juggled in a corner constantly. (Then the game has the gall to say Byleth won afterwards.)

[Acacia Sgt]

9 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

That one I still find strange; it is important to the Four Hounds that they determine whether or not Alear is a Fell Dragon, but, earlier in that very same chapter, they make it clear that the Four Hounds cannot afford to lose any more rings, with Griss berating Marni and Mauvier that there's no point in in trying to take back rings from Alear if they just lose rings in the process.

Not only that, but they had another method for testing if Alear is a Fell Dragon: the dragonstone in Veyle's possession. Veyle told them in chapter 17 that it was given to her by her sole surviving sibling, making them realize that another child of Sombron lives. They could've used the dragonstone instead. So, they had a viable alternative, they emphasized how important it is that they don't lose any more rings, and they gave up a ring to Alear anyway.

I mean, it's Griss we're talking about. He likely deliberately went for giving up a ring so Zephia could punish him too. Whether or not it actually happened, we don't know.

[vanguard333]

18 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I mean, it's Griss we're talking about. He likely deliberately went for giving up a ring so Zephia could punish him too. Whether or not it actually happened, we don't know.

Perhaps. It's still weird, and him giving up a ring denied us a chance to instead see Alear's dragon form and have that be used to reveal that Alear is a fell dragon, while also being yet another time we fight and defeat the Four Hounds, even if, in this case, Griss wanted to lose.

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 1/8/2024 at 7:52 PM, lenticular said:

One other issue I have with recurring bosses is that they can push balance a bit askew by putting a premium on characters/tools that can deal with them. The Death Knight is possibly the worst offender here. Because you have so many fights with him, you're incentivised to make sure you have a way of dealing with a high level mounted unit. Lysithea would still be a good unit even if the Death Knight didn't exist, but because she learns Dark Spikes Τ she is also a premiere counter to the toughest enemy of a lot of chapters. If his three appearences in White Clouds had instead been a Fortress Knight, a Falcon Knight, and a Gremory (or special unique classes based on them) then we'd have to use different characters/classes against each of them.

In the specific case of the Death Knight, he's an optional opponent, so I don't think he's in danger of making any one thing too overcentralizing, e.g. I tend to care more about having units who match up well against the 14 AS rampaging villagers than I do about matching up against Jerry in Chapter 8. And even if he were forced, I doubt it would bother me much. Yeah, Dark Spikes (and Knightkneeler / Lance of Ruin) are a bit better than they would be if he didn't exist, but there are still plenty of other tools that get chances to shine in this game, and I don't think the anti-cavalry tools are overpowered, either in practice or in terms of "vibe".

On 1/8/2024 at 7:55 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

See, I think his appearance at Remire just came out of nowhere. He's just kind of a "hurry up!" feature that most players can completely ignore. Hell, you don't need to visit that side of the map to begin with. It's cool gameplay-wise, to get a couple Crescent Sickles, but they could've easily added those to chapter 6 instead. I'd drop his appearance here, and maybe put a Demonic Beast in his place, if you need a threat.

On 1/7/2024 at 11:55 AM, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Gameplaywise I can take or leave his appearance here, but I agree with vanguard333; his appearance here matters for storyline reasons. I also kinda like how he has steadily more effect on the battle each time you face him:

Chapter 4: doesn't move (except on Maddening, where he still doesn't move unless aggroed), completely optional
Chapter 6: still only moves if aggroed and only on Maddening, but now you have to hunt down every enemy on the map if you don't want to engage with him
Chapter 8: actively pursues you, gets between you and the southern treasure chest (granted, you'll probably just bypass with a flier), can kill Jeralt (loss condition) if you take too long.
Chapter 12: gets in your face
Final appearance: actually a required kill

 

[Etrurian emperor]

6 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Chapter 8: actively pursues you, gets between you and the southern treasure chest (granted, you'll probably just bypass with a flier), can kill Jeralt (loss condition) if you take too long.

He can kill Rhea too during the siege of the monastery. I always found both instances weird since Rhea and Jeralt are supposed to be the strongest persons walking around in Fodlan and its never quite explained how Death Knight because so extremely powerful.  

[SnowFire]

On 1/11/2024 at 4:37 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

He can kill Rhea too during the siege of the monastery. I always found both instances weird since Rhea and Jeralt are supposed to be the strongest persons walking around in Fodlan and its never quite explained how Death Knight because so extremely powerful.  

I think that's just the game not wanting to disrupt Kayfabe and provide "spoilers", sort of, by having Rhea really unleash during White Clouds (same with Catherine & Ashe's Paralogue).  Since Rhea is supposed to just be an important official early in the plot (...for all that...  some other elements suggest Rhea might have been some eternal Archbishop which would have implied that it'd be common knowledge she wasn't), having her be just a person under threat makes sense.

I can think of no less than two other RPGs off the top of my head where you do "escort" missions where the helpless archaeologist / explorer you keep bumping into is actually the final boss slumming around with mere mortals.  But so as to avoid spoilers, if they "die", it's still a Game Over, even if they're really a dark god or the like. 

--

On the general point: Recurring bosses are fine, especially from a gameplay perspective.  Some form of interaction with the villains throughout is also helpful for building a rivalry and why do you care - it can be difficult for a villain you've never met before fighting & killing them to have the proper impact, and one way is just to have that villain show up sooner and either taunt the heroes then teleport off, or just fight them then somehow escape.  There's a reason that allowing this tool is kind of a default in video game fiction.

...THAT SAID, just because something is a healthy default for understandable reasons doesn't mean it should be done ALL the time.  And I'm talking about across fiction here, not within a work or even within a series.  Something that made the older FEs stand out was a "mood" of "this is really happening, there are no guarantees, these are not play fights."  Lyn can DIE to a random-ass bandit and there is no cheap revival item from a store.  When you fight someone, think as if you're doing it in a real RPG - that means you're really fighting them!  If you kill Vaida now, she's obviously not going to appear later, because she's dead!  Older FEs are pretty good about being disciplined about how many fights turn into "eh, that was just a wound", and often only do it for the likes of Cecilia vs. Zephiel (basically a cutscene that uses the in-game battle engine, so sure).  You don't HAVE to do this, but if you set this mood and are consistent with it, it provides a different, realer feel than you'll find in your average Ultimate Anime Battles game where everyone apparently fights with nerf bats and battles never really stop anyone permanently.

The reason I'm less fussed with repeat fights in more modern FEs is that they've stepped much closer to the "Ultimate Anime Battles" style than the low fantasy "You are there, no takebacks, no going easy, this is real" style.  And if you're already having people facetank giant energy beams that only cause their clothes to get dirty, then whatever, might as well take advantage of all the storytelling advantages of repeated encounters with the same people.

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 1/11/2024 at 1:37 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

He can kill Rhea too during the siege of the monastery. I always found both instances weird since Rhea and Jeralt are supposed to be the strongest persons walking around in Fodlan and its never quite explained how Death Knight because so extremely powerful.  

As a general observation, combatants don't exist in a "power ranking" scale where the "stronger" one will always win. By which I mean that even if you perceive Jeralt as stronger than Jeritza, the latter could win if he gets a lucky hit in.

Having said that I'd kneejerk Jeritza as the more impressive warrior than Jeralt anyway, at least in the present day. The biggest in-game thing praising Jeralt is largely based on his fame as a Knight of Seiros from 20+ years previous, and even assuming that reputation is totally deserved, age and alcohol have likely taken a toll since. Jeritza meanwhile is built up as just about the scariest human in the setting: Byleth and even some of the students are hyped up a lot and you're still told, in no uncertain terms, to avoid him when you first meet him. The gameplay backs this up, too.

As for Rhea... even setting aside the Doylist argument about whether the game is still half-heartedly clinging to keeping on her secret in Chapter 12 non-CF, you can argue she's holding back a bit and/or she herself is a bit rusty at this point. And even then it kinda looks like that fight can go either way, judging by the numbers (Jeritza has better stats, mostly speed, but Rhea has draining and a stronghold regen/evade boost so Jeritza will need some luck with criticals to win).

[Samz707]

On 1/12/2024 at 6:32 PM, SnowFire said:

I think that's just the game not wanting to disrupt Kayfabe and provide "spoilers", sort of, by having Rhea really unleash during White Clouds (same with Catherine & Ashe's Paralogue).  Since Rhea is supposed to just be an important official early in the plot (...for all that...  some other elements suggest Rhea might have been some eternal Archbishop which would have implied that it'd be common knowledge she wasn't), having her be just a person under threat makes sense.

I can think of no less than two other RPGs off the top of my head where you do "escort" missions where the helpless archaeologist / explorer you keep bumping into is actually the final boss slumming around with mere mortals.  But so as to avoid spoilers, if they "die", it's still a Game Over, even if they're really a dark god or the like. 

--

On the general point: Recurring bosses are fine, especially from a gameplay perspective.  Some form of interaction with the villains throughout is also helpful for building a rivalry and why do you care - it can be difficult for a villain you've never met before fighting & killing them to have the proper impact, and one way is just to have that villain show up sooner and either taunt the heroes then teleport off, or just fight them then somehow escape.  There's a reason that allowing this tool is kind of a default in video game fiction.

...THAT SAID, just because something is a healthy default for understandable reasons doesn't mean it should be done ALL the time.  And I'm talking about across fiction here, not within a work or even within a series.  Something that made the older FEs stand out was a "mood" of "this is really happening, there are no guarantees, these are not play fights."  Lyn can DIE to a random-ass bandit and there is no cheap revival item from a store.  When you fight someone, think as if you're doing it in a real RPG - that means you're really fighting them!  If you kill Vaida now, she's obviously not going to appear later, because she's dead!  Older FEs are pretty good about being disciplined about how many fights turn into "eh, that was just a wound", and often only do it for the likes of Cecilia vs. Zephiel (basically a cutscene that uses the in-game battle engine, so sure).  You don't HAVE to do this, but if you set this mood and are consistent with it, it provides a different, realer feel than you'll find in your average Ultimate Anime Battles game where everyone apparently fights with nerf bats and battles never really stop anyone permanently.

The reason I'm less fussed with repeat fights in more modern FEs is that they've stepped much closer to the "Ultimate Anime Battles" style than the low fantasy "You are there, no takebacks, no going easy, this is real" style.  And if you're already having people facetank giant energy beams that only cause their clothes to get dirty, then whatever, might as well take advantage of all the storytelling advantages of repeated encounters with the same people.

For what it's worth, I think it also depends on "how" they survive:

Erik in FE7 has Hector yelling at him to get up, so it's clear the implication is that Erik is seriously wounded so while yes, he's alive, the fact we beat the crap out of him is fully acknowledged.

Characters fleeing (even if we assume they have rewarp mages on standby) does get a bit silly. (3H moment.)

Worst is what Hopes does with Byleth, you fight Byleth, possibly beat them up alot since Musou gameplay doesn't exactly lend itself to difficult bosses...then watch as they completely instantly turn things around and are now winning in a cutscene which is the worst thing they could have done. (or in the cases where you can fight Byleth off, the game's dialogue is clearly written for the "You ran away" outcome and the game doesn't have two different end map dialogue to account for it so it's still annoying.) 

Edited January 14 by Samz707

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

The biggest in-game thing praising Jeralt is largely based on his fame as a Knight of Seiros from 20+ years previous, and even assuming that reputation is totally deserved, age and alcohol have likely taken a toll since.

Alcohol, sure, but I don't think we can conclude age has taken any toll out of Jeralt. The game makes it very clear that he basically hasn't aged and Hopes throws a line in putting his age at something like three hundred. That being said, Jertiza probably could take him, because really the most important factor in a fight isn't your strength, it's your willingness to actually fight. I don't think Jeritza actually is meant to be supernatural strong, he's just supernaturally eager to kill which really makes a big difference. Jeralt meanwhile is more of a broken man since the death of Sitri and is not going to be as eager to cause bloodshed.

Edited January 14 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

19 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I don't think Jeritza actually is meant to be supernatural strong, he's just supernaturally eager to kill which really makes a big difference.

Well, that and being geared in Agarthan stuff. His weapon, at least, is definitely Agarthan.

[Dark Holy Elf]

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

Alcohol, sure, but I don't think we can conclude age has taken any toll out of Jeralt. The game makes it very clear that he basically hasn't aged and Hopes throws a line in putting his age at something like three hundred. That being said, Jertiza probably could take him, because really the most important factor in a fight isn't your strength, it's your willingness to actually fight. I don't think Jeritza actually is meant to be supernatural strong, he's just supernaturally eager to kill which really makes a big difference. Jeralt meanwhile is more of a broken man since the death of Sitri and is not going to be as eager to cause bloodshed.

Jeralt is supernaturally old but he is not immortal, any more than Wilhelm and the others who received the blood of the saints were. So presumably his mortal physical decline kicks in at some point, and my read is that it is occurring during the time period of the game. In his Manuela support he kinda implies that he doesn't expect he has that much longer to live. That said, definitely agree that Sitri's death is a huge factor too; it's impossible to say how much of his decline is due to age and how much is due to his mindset. It's certainly possible that the physical decline hasn't kicked in yet at all, that's just not my personal read on the situation.

I would not describe Jeritza as supernaturally strong, no, but he is about as skilled as a human warrior can be. His appearance on the battlefield is consistently painted as a big deal.

[Etrurian emperor]

18 hours ago, Jotari said:

I don't think Jeritza actually is meant to be supernatural strong, he's just supernaturally eager to kill which really makes a big difference.

That's possible but gameplay wise he seems to be a reference to co creator Koei's ''Lu Bu'' archetype which comes with its own implications about how strong he might be. Do not pursue the death knight and all that. 

[vanguard333]

18 hours ago, Jotari said:

Alcohol, sure, but I don't think we can conclude age has taken any toll out of Jeralt. The game makes it very clear that he basically hasn't aged and Hopes throws a line in putting his age at something like three hundred. That being said, Jertiza probably could take him, because really the most important factor in a fight isn't your strength, it's your willingness to actually fight. I don't think Jeritza actually is meant to be supernatural strong, he's just supernaturally eager to kill which really makes a big difference. Jeralt meanwhile is more of a broken man since the death of Sitri and is not going to be as eager to cause bloodshed.

There are multiple ways that age takes its toll on a fighter; one of them is physical aging, but another is all the old wounds & injuries eventually catching up and piling up. Physical aging probably has not affected Jeralt, but I would not be surprised if he has plenty of old wounds that are starting to build up and impair him.

I don't think it's Jeritza's willingness to kill as much as his physical skill and talent. Even when he's being Jeritza and not being the Death Knight, his skill is considered extremely noteworthy, to the point of becoming the combat instructor at the most prestigious military academy in the continent at the age of 21. Bear in mind that his only noble connections are Edelgard and the family that adopted him on her orders to hide the fact that he's actually Emile of House Bartels, so its unlikely that he got in the academy purely through connections (emphasis on "purely"; obviously his connection to Edelgard played a role, but he almost-certainly got the job due to his skill). A number of characters also comment on Jeritza's skill before he's revealed to be the Death Knight.

[Etrurian emperor]

Generally speaking I think Fire Emblem should be less concerned with parity than it currently is. 

Lately Fire Emblem has been very careful to give each country to exact same amount of focus. Just look at Engage. For each country you got two royals, each with a set of retainers and each with a miscellaneous character who's not a retainer. Same with Fates where Hoshido and Nohr have the exact same set up. 

But this ignores the fact that not every country is made equal. Solm is not nearly as important to Engage as the other countries so it be easy to deprive them of some characters and have Timerra appear a bit less in cutscenes. Solm just isn't very important so there's no real need to pretend it should be. Not every royal is made equal either so its unwise to drag Hinoka into every crossover just to keep up a balance between Hoshido and Nohr. In the original Warriors she simply should have been replaced by someone else even if this meant that Nohr would have four royals to Hoshido's three. 

It also makes the world feel artificial if every royal family has the exact same amount of children with the exact same amount of retainers working for them. In Magvel the royal families weren't so directly mirrored. Reneas had twins, but the other countries don't, and L'arachel and Joshua didn't have siblings just so they matched the Reneais twins. L'arachel had two retainers since she was a big kid goofing off far from home, but the others didn't and no attempt was made make the others more akin to her.

In Fodlan the Three Houses aren't made equal either. The Golden Deer are so obviously the third wheel so if cuts need to be made then that's the logical place to start. Nor are the House Leaders made equal. Edelgard is evidently more central to the plot than her peers so Smash should just have ripped the band aid off.

And the funny thing is that it doesn't even work. Engage tries to put Solm on the level of the other countries, but we can tell its not. Fates tries to pretend Hinoka is equal to the other royals but she's criticized because she's not. Part of why Elibe and Tellius feel more real than Fateslandia or Elyos is that each country is allowed to be difference in size, set up and importance. 

 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Generally speaking I think Fire Emblem should be less concerned with parity than it currently is. 

Lately Fire Emblem has been very careful to give each country to exact same amount of focus. Just look at Engage. For each country you got two royals, each with a set of retainers and each with a miscellaneous character who's not a retainer. Same with Fates where Hoshido and Nohr have the exact same set up. 

But this ignores the fact that not every country is made equal. Solm is not nearly as important to Engage as the other countries so it be easy to deprive them of some characters and have Timerra appear a bit less in cutscenes. Solm just isn't very important so there's no real need to pretend it should be. Not every royal is made equal either so its unwise to drag Hinoka into every crossover just to keep up a balance between Hoshido and Nohr. In the original Warriors she simply should have been replaced by someone else even if this meant that Nohr would have four royals to Hoshido's three. 

It also makes the world feel artificial if every royal family has the exact same amount of children with the exact same amount of retainers working for them. In Magvel the royal families weren't so directly mirrored. Reneas had twins, but the other countries don't, and L'arachel and Joshua didn't have siblings just so they matched the Reneais twins. L'arachel had two retainers since she was a big kid goofing off far from home, but the others didn't and no attempt was made make the others more akin to her.

In Fodlan the Three Houses aren't made equal either. The Golden Deer are so obviously the third wheel so if cuts need to be made then that's the logical place to start. Nor are the House Leaders made equal. Edelgard is evidently more central to the plot than her peers so Smash should just have ripped the band aid off.

And the funny thing is that it doesn't even work. Engage tries to put Solm on the level of the other countries, but we can tell its not. Fates tries to pretend Hinoka is equal to the other royals but she's criticized because she's not. Part of why Elibe and Tellius feel more real than Fateslandia or Elyos is that each country is allowed to be difference in size, set up and importance. 

 

Hard agree. These parallels are ultimately a restriction on story telling. If X has to be Y then it can't be anything else. Let things develop from what the story requires of it. This will almost certainly mean the protagonist's nation and the main antagonist's nation getting the most focus (well, almost certainly, Dolhr didn't really get much focus, sorry Medeus). The real best example of this falling flat imo is not Solm, it's Lythos. Like, what even is Lythos? We have the barest indication that humans even live there and it plays absolutely no role in the plot. Even when the villains conquer it there are no story consequences, it's just a different location because they'd already used up Elyos. Buball rights Lythos should be a bustling nation that is the centre of trade between all of the other countries, yet because they had to spend so much time perfectly balancing the other nations, there's neither time nor enough space on the roster to properly make Lythos feel like a real place. It's honestly astounding how poorly developed is. Like, literally the worst country in the series. Gra on the original NES was better.

[Florete]

4 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Not every royal is made equal either so its unwise to drag Hinoka into every crossover just to keep up a balance between Hoshido and Nohr. In the original Warriors she simply should have been replaced by someone else even if this meant that Nohr would have four royals to Hoshido's three. 

I do agree with your overall point, but I think it would have been even weirder to have all the Fates royal siblings* in Warriors except Hinoka specifically.

*Minus Azura, of course, but she's already the "extra" so-to-speak, so it's not quite as weird even though she definitely should have been there to begin with.

[Jotari]

22 minutes ago, Florete said:

I do agree with your overall point, but I think it would have been even weirder to have all the Fates royal siblings* in Warriors except Hinoka specifically.

*Minus Azura, of course, but she's already the "extra" so-to-speak, so it's not quite as weird even though she definitely should have been there to begin with.

Hinoka is a bit singled out in that post. It's not like Elise and Sakura are much more important than her either. Honestly for Warriors they should have...just made a different game more like Three Hopes, but even assuming only Archanea, Awakening and Fateslandia, the royals could have been covered by Corrin, Azura, Xander and Ryoma and then leave some slots open for some other characters. Honestly Garon probably would have been pretty fun to play as in a Warriors style game.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

Classism ahead, I suppose.

 

I think having a lot of units like New Mystery of the Emblem makes perfect sense for Fire Emblem and would make the games overall more interesting, by virtue of having more possible and wacky interactions.

Why should [insert name of military/political leader here] not have an entourage of people they dont directly know? People outside of their innermost circle or court which is at the same time where [insert name of military/political leader here] are most safe? Even the King of the People TM Marth can´t shake hands with every soldiers, otherwise he´d gain +1STR/chapter. Surely you pick up more than Mercenary replacement number 3 or worse Cavalier number 5 on your campaign through the continent.

And why do they need characterization? If they join with Hardin in SD chapter 5 you know their portrait, at least their name, their most obvious allegiance and that´s all you need to be frank. This isn´t "Fire Emblem Hero Number 18" and they dont need to and can´t be, because there can only be so many blue haired sword wielding royals with a dash of draconic heritage or a background of foretold savior, it´s "soldier with barely any contact to their military leadership" and the player is at all times the elusive strategist concerned with numbers anyway.

Not to mention silent stories of the mercenary that joined with bad physical stats and good magic stats? Levin Sword? A reclass to mage for RP mayhaps? Obviously all of the above would have to happen under the viewpoint of balance because being joined by an endless supply of free challenge modes isn´t fun either.

 

On that note and somewhat related, I think Personal Skills ought to be scaled back in number and be given either to the truly relevant story characters or if the character is built around the gimmick of the Personal Skills. I´d much rather have less unique but more overall good Characters/Personal Skills than nothingburgers and edgycases like Fates Selenas skill or many of the Engage PS which i dont remember to be particularly impressive (might be user error, I´ll concede that).

Edited January 18 by Imuabicus der Fertige

[Metal Flash]

On 1/17/2024 at 9:53 PM, Etrurian emperor said:

Generally speaking I think Fire Emblem should be less concerned with parity than it currently is. 

Lately Fire Emblem has been very careful to give each country to exact same amount of focus. Just look at Engage. For each country you got two royals, each with a set of retainers and each with a miscellaneous character who's not a retainer. Same with Fates where Hoshido and Nohr have the exact same set up. 

But this ignores the fact that not every country is made equal. Solm is not nearly as important to Engage as the other countries so it be easy to deprive them of some characters and have Timerra appear a bit less in cutscenes. Solm just isn't very important so there's no real need to pretend it should be. Not every royal is made equal either so its unwise to drag Hinoka into every crossover just to keep up a balance between Hoshido and Nohr. In the original Warriors she simply should have been replaced by someone else even if this meant that Nohr would have four royals to Hoshido's three. 

It also makes the world feel artificial if every royal family has the exact same amount of children with the exact same amount of retainers working for them. In Magvel the royal families weren't so directly mirrored. Reneas had twins, but the other countries don't, and L'arachel and Joshua didn't have siblings just so they matched the Reneais twins. L'arachel had two retainers since she was a big kid goofing off far from home, but the others didn't and no attempt was made make the others more akin to her.

In Fodlan the Three Houses aren't made equal either. The Golden Deer are so obviously the third wheel so if cuts need to be made then that's the logical place to start. Nor are the House Leaders made equal. Edelgard is evidently more central to the plot than her peers so Smash should just have ripped the band aid off.

And the funny thing is that it doesn't even work. Engage tries to put Solm on the level of the other countries, but we can tell its not. Fates tries to pretend Hinoka is equal to the other royals but she's criticized because she's not. Part of why Elibe and Tellius feel more real than Fateslandia or Elyos is that each country is allowed to be difference in size, set up and importance. 

 

I agree with this, the attempt at putting each country on the same level fails. Having some variance in the amount of units from each region would help make each country feel more unique.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Classism ahead, I suppose.

 

I think having a lot of units like New Mystery of the Emblem makes perfect sense for Fire Emblem and would make the games overall more interesting, by virtue of having more possible and wacky interactions.

Why should [insert name of military/political leader here] not have an entourage of people they dont directly know? People outside of their innermost circle or court which is at the same time where [insert name of military/political leader here] are most safe? Even the King of the People TM Marth can´t shake hands with every soldiers, otherwise he´d gain +1STR/chapter. Surely you pick up more than Mercenary replacement number 3 or worse Cavalier number 5 on your campaign through the continent.

And why do they need characterization? If they join with Hardin in SD chapter 5 you know their portrait, at least their name, their most obvious allegiance and that´s all you need to be frank. This isn´t "Fire Emblem Hero Number 18" and they dont need to and can´t be, because there can only be so many blue haired sword wielding royals with a dash of draconic heritage or a background of foretold savior, it´s "soldier with barely any contact to their military leadership" and the player is at all times the elusive strategist concerned with numbers anyway.

Not to mention silent stories of the mercenary that joined with bad physical stats and good magic stats? Levin Sword? A reclass to mage for RP mayhaps? Obviously all of the above would have to happen under the viewpoint of balance because being joined by an endless supply of free challenge modes isn´t fun either.

I like my character to be characterized though. And the bigger the cast the harder it is to do that. Unless they just throw more money and more writers at it, but too many cooks can be an issue too. That being said, my mind just keeps going back to Archanea no matter how much of this series I plan. Despite Jugdral being my favourite narrative, I think Archanea and its cast of nobodies is my favourite setting. There's just some enthralling about all it's various countries and endless list of characters.

1 hour ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

On that note and somewhat related, I think Personal Skills ought to be scaled back in number and be given either to the truly relevant story characters or if the character is built around the gimmick of the Personal Skills. I´d much rather have less unique but more overall good Characters/Personal Skills than nothingburgers and edgycases like Fates Selenas skill or many of the Engage PS which i dont remember to be particularly impressive (might be user error, I´ll concede that).

I think more personal skills should be just plain regular skills. Like Vaike just gets really Strength. He just has it on his moveset at all times, meaning your free to build around that and make a rally build with an extra slot, or just ignore it and use it when it's useful. Rather than creating some kind of very niche skill just for the sake of being unique. Nobody is complaining that Lysethia has vanilla Discipline as he personal skill, because it's a decent enough skill that works on her.

Edited January 18 by Jotari

[Seazas]

On 1/10/2024 at 12:39 PM, vanguard333 said:

Perhaps. It's still weird, and him giving up a ring denied us a chance to instead see Alear's dragon form and have that be used to reveal that Alear is a fell dragon, while also being yet another time we fight and defeat the Four Hounds, even if, in this case, Griss wanted to lose.

Denied us? It didn't really deny us anything. Even if Griss never gave it up: Alear was never getting a dragon form. That just wasn't happening with how Alear was designed as a character.

[vanguard333]

1 hour ago, Seazas said:

Denied us? It didn't really deny us anything. Even if Griss never gave it up: Alear was never getting a dragon form. That just wasn't happening with how Alear was designed as a character.

True; the game really bent over backwards to make sure Alear could never have a dragon form. I really don't know what IS was thinking; making a game with a protagonist that everyone in the game insists is a dragon and then never actually having them be a dragon; instead just having them be yet another young-adult humanoid swordsman.