What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Samz707 said:

Eh to be fair here, Fire Emblem itself has a very messy relationship wtih romance.

The only good romance in Fire Emblem is in Sacred Stones. Between Orson and Monica. He was really willing to do anything for his "darling".

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

You understood me, but my comment actually was a bit unclear. Seluf talks about Claude's ghost. Claude is definitely dead by the time of Thracia yet is still interacting with the world.

I understood. I was just joking about Sleuf getting M-preg'd by the Ghost of Claud.

Anyway, I'm fine with ghosts hanging around, since Genealogy's secret scene, in chapter 10, featured the ghosts of Sigurd and Dierdre.

[lenticular]

1 hour ago, Samz707 said:

Eh to be fair here, Fire Emblem itself has a very messy relationship wtih romance.

I'd say the two most "romance" focused FE games with the first 2 3DS games had some romance writing that was absolutely awful with the supports while I ironically found the less "romance" focused games did better. (I outright ship 3H characters which I can't say for AwakenFates.) 

I've always thought of Shadows of Valentia as being the Fire Emblem with the most in common with a romance story. Alm and Celica's relationship is a core part of the story, and it also features a fair few romance tropes: the outside forces keeping them apart, the argument/misunderstanding, the grand sacrificial gesture, the ultimate happily ever after style ending. By contrast, while matchmaking is important to the gameplay of Awakening and Fates, it's almost entirely unimportant to the story, so neither one of those games really has the feel or the flavour of a romance.

(Also, for the record, I do read romance novels and have a whole lot of thoughts on the genre, but this thread seems like an entirely inappropriate venue for them.)

[Etrurian emperor]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The only good romance in Fire Emblem is in Sacred Stones. Between Orson and Monica. He was really willing to do anything for his "darling".

Too bad for him that Monica has eyes only for Edelgard. 

[Eltosian Kadath]

Not sure how unpopular this one is exactly, but I don't think I have shared it in this thread yet. Engage is a game that is funner to play than it is to talk about, while Three Houses is a game that is funner to talk about than it is to play.

 

On 12/1/2023 at 8:12 PM, Spiritfox55 said:

 

Eldigan and Ares have the best Father & Son relationship despite never interacting on screen

I would like to hear you elaborate on that point a bit, as I find it a bit surprising.

 

20 hours ago, SnowFire said:

On Echoes: Well, Echoes didn't sell as well as Fates.  Not saying it lost money, but effort isn't infinite.  If you can assign people to more lucrative or less lucrative projects, pick more lucrative ones; maybe some sort of Fates ripoff would have sold better as 3DS FE game #3.

The other remakes almost killed the franchise, and they didn't learn their lesson for Echoes, why would they have learned from this far lighter setback.

 

[Saint Rubenio]

2 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Not sure how unpopular this one is exactly, but I don't think I have shared it in this thread yet. Engage is a game that is funner to play than it is to talk about, while Three Houses is a game that is funner to talk about than it is to play.

Honestly? Yeah, I feel like you hit it right on the money.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

4 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The other remakes almost killed the franchise, and they didn't learn their lesson for Echoes, why would they have learned from this far lighter setback.

Huh? Most sales data I can find indicates that Shadow Dragon sold better than either Path of Radiance or Radiant Dawn. It didn't "save" the series, but it somewhat reversed the "low point" of marketability in the Tellius era.

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Too bad for him that Monica has eyes only for Edelgard. 

...Well you've got me there. Ochward.

[Jotari]

39 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Huh? Most sales data I can find indicates that Shadow Dragon sold better than either Path of Radiance or Radiant Dawn. It didn't "save" the series, but it somewhat reversed the "low point" of marketability in the Tellius era.

...Well you've got me there. Ochward.

If I were to guess, I'd say Shadow Dragon did a lot better with the Japanese market than the international market. As there was actual potential for nostalgia there. If Shadow Dragon really did do well then they probably would have localized New Mystery. Today it would be virtually unthinkable for Fire Emblem to release a new main line title and not see a western release even if a console is almost finished. I like Shadow Dragon's box art, but honestly it might have been better if they'd stick Marth's face up there front and centre so at least the Smash Bros. fans could know straight away that this is "the Marth game".

[Acacia Sgt]

On the subject of sales, to be fair, SoV also came out around the time the Switch did, so of course that would impact its sales. Same thing happened to PoR and the Wii, if I recall.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

On the subject of sales, to be fair, SoV also came out around the time the Switch did, so of course that would impact its sales. Same thing happened to PoR and the Wii, if I recall.

Thracia is king when it comes to that. It came out closer to the Game Cube release than the Nintendo 64's! So on that original point, I can't imagine Nintendo or IS blame Thracia much for its weak sales. No doubt they knew it was a niche title for hardcore fans when they brought it out. Hell, it actually was a limited addition exclusive to Nintendo Power for a few months before it got a general release.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Jotari

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

If I were to guess, I'd say Shadow Dragon did a lot better with the Japanese market than the international market. As there was actual potential for nostalgia there. If Shadow Dragon really did do well then they probably would have localized New Mystery. Today it would be virtually unthinkable for Fire Emblem to release a new main line title and not see a western release even if a console is almost finished. I like Shadow Dragon's box art, but honestly it might have been better if they'd stick Marth's face up there front and centre so at least the Smash Bros. fans could know straight away that this is "the Marth game".

The thing is, New Mystery came out in July 2010 in Japan. So, it would've made it to other territories in late 2010, early 2011. Just a few months before the 3DS was due out. Nintendo probably figured that it was too late in the system's lifespan to localize it. Capcom did the same thing with Ace Attorney Investigations 2, which was February 2011 in Japan. Who's getting excited for a new game on yesterday's system? Pokemon fans notwithstanding...

Looking at this site, it seems to be the case that Shadow Dragon did roughly as well as each Tellius game (outside Japan), while surpassing the Tellius games inside Japan. So, perhaps New Mystery would've come out if the ratio for Shadow Dragon were more internationally-skewed. Still, it's impossible to ignore the timing within the handheld's lifespan.

13 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Thracia is king when it comes to that. It came out closer to the Game Cube release than the Nintendo 64's! So on that original point, I can't imagine Nintendo or IS blame Thracia much for its weak sales. No doubt they knew it was a niche title for hardcore fans when they brought it out. Hell, it actually was a limited addition exclusive to Nintendo Power for a few months before it got a general release.

To pay homage to this, Nintendo will remake and rerelease Thracia 776, but only to players who have accumulated (and are willing to spend) 10,000 Platinum coins on their "My Nintendo" account.

[Acacia Sgt]

6 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The thing is, New Mystery came out in July 2010 in Japan. So, it would've made it to other territories in late 2010, early 2011. Just a few months before the 3DS was due out. Nintendo probably figured that it was too late in the system's lifespan to localize it. Capcom did the same thing with Ace Attorney Investigations 2, which was February 2011 in Japan. Who's getting excited for a new game on yesterday's system? Pokemon fans notwithstanding...

Looking at this site, it seems to be the case that Shadow Dragon did roughly as well as each Tellius game (outside Japan), while surpassing the Tellius games inside Japan. So, perhaps New Mystery would've come out if the ratio for Shadow Dragon were more internationally-skewed. Still, it's impossible to ignore the timing within the handheld's lifespan.

Then again, the 3DS is backwards compatible. Unlike the Switch. But yeah, people would already be focusing on games for the up-and-coming.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The thing is, New Mystery came out in July 2010 in Japan. So, it would've made it to other territories in late 2010, early 2011. Just a few months before the 3DS was due out. Nintendo probably figured that it was too late in the system's lifespan to localize it. Capcom did the same thing with Ace Attorney Investigations 2, which was February 2011 in Japan. Who's getting excited for a new game on yesterday's system? Pokemon fans notwithstanding...

Looking at this site, it seems to be the case that Shadow Dragon did roughly as well as each Tellius game (outside Japan), while surpassing the Tellius games inside Japan. So, perhaps New Mystery would've come out if the ratio for Shadow Dragon were more internationally-skewed. Still, it's impossible to ignore the timing within the handheld's lifespan.

Oh of course the timing is relevant. I didn't mean to suggest Shadow Dragon's sales were the only reason. My point is more that Shadows of Valentia was in the same boat timing wise. It came out literally a month before the Switch in Japan, and after the Switch's world wide release elsewhere. But there wasn't really any question of a localization for Shadows of Valentia not happening, because by that point Fire Emblem's world wide sales were good enough that it justified a localization on a console on the way out, so to speak. So if Shadow Dragon had done exceptionally well outside of Japan and not just on part with the previous titles that undersold, we could have got a New Mystery localization in spite of the time release. Another alternative they could have chances was the Zelda method. Ie releasing it on the old console and new console simultaneously. Though that might be a bit redundant with the 3DS's backwards compatibility.

1 minute ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

To pay homage to this, Nintendo will remake and rerelease Thracia 776, but only to players who have accumulated (and are willing to spend) 10,000 Platinum coins on their "My Nintendo" account.

Thracia will only be available to those who signed up to the 3DS Ambassador program, and it will be a 3DS release XD

[Acacia Sgt]

You know, I decided to do a random search and...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakedown:_Hawaii

Nintendo 3DS

• NA: September 19, 2019 (Digital), 6th November 2023 (Physical)

Talk about dedication.

[Jotari]

16 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

You know, I decided to do a random search and...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakedown:_Hawaii

Nintendo 3DS

• NA: September 19, 2019 (Digital), 6th November 2023 (Physical)

Talk about dedication.

Oh wow. That's amazing. A digital release in 2019 alone is weird enough, but a physical copy exactly one month ago! My head is spinning. How many copies did they make? How many are they expecting to sell? How much does it cost to physically distribute a 3DS game today? It was also released on the Wii in 2020! It's like they were intentionally trying to go for a record of bizarriest release cycle. Well at the very least a late 2023 physical release makes the barest iota of sense as the 3DS EShop closed in March making the 3DS version unavailable. But still...I want to meet a real actual person who bought this unironically. Where can it even be purchased? Are physical stores really stocking it for sale?

 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

32 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh wow. That's amazing. A digital release in 2019 alone is weird enough, but a physical copy exactly one month ago! My head is spinning. How many copies did they make? How many are they expecting to sell? How much does it cost to physically distribute a 3DS game today? It was also released on the Wii in 2020! It's like they were intentionally trying to go for a record of bizarriest release cycle. Well at the very least a late 2023 physical release makes the barest iota of sense as the 3DS EShop closed in March making the 3DS version unavailable. But still...I want to meet a real actual person who bought this unironically. Where can it even be purchased? Are physical stores really stocking it for sale?

 

Sadly, the article doesn't talk in detail about the 3DS physical release. Probably in dedicated shops... like Gamestop, maybe. Somewhere in the US, for sure.

[Jotari]

38 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Sadly, the article doesn't talk in detail about the 3DS physical release. Probably in dedicated shops... like Gamestop, maybe. Somewhere in the US, for sure.

Maybe not. Maybe only Canada. As that's where the company is based, they might have done a pretty regional release. Though most physical production probably involves NoA in Seattle (close to the Canadian border I'm somewhat sure). I was thinking even GameStop would be too general for such a release.

Edit: Seems they made 6,000 copies and it's only available to order online

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2023/10/surprise-the-3ds-is-getting-a-brand-new-physical-release-next-week

Edited December 6, 2023 by Jotari

[SnowFire]

14 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The thing is, New Mystery came out in July 2010 in Japan. So, it would've made it to other territories in late 2010, early 2011. Just a few months before the 3DS was due out. Nintendo probably figured that it was too late in the system's lifespan to localize it. Capcom did the same thing with Ace Attorney Investigations 2, which was February 2011 in Japan. Who's getting excited for a new game on yesterday's system? Pokemon fans notwithstanding...

I think both FE12 and AAI2 could have been released in North America, even if a little "late" for the DS...  but...  frankly, they weren't that good.  And even if you disagree, their reputation was certainly mixed at best, and both sold quite poorly compared to series expectations in Japan.  So you're talking about "may lose money to localize, may reduce the value of the brand long-term if word spreads about it being bad."  (Side note: As someone who's played every mainline Ace Attorney game (i.e. excluding stuff like the Professor Layton crossover), I feel like I can pretty safely rank AAI2 as the worst of the series.  Which is still not a bad game overall because it's a good series, and it has its moments, but...  yeah.)

I get the impression the Ace Attorney series is actually more popular worldwide than it is in Japan, but that wasn't really true of FE in 2010.  FE12 is interesting for the kind of super-fans who post on FE websites about games released 13 years ago because of replayability from its large cast and some high difficulty modes to show off on, but if played casually on Normal, just isn't that special.  Plus, by video game standards, FE12 would have been an expensive localization due to more text than a random other game, and AAI2 would have been an EXTREMELY expensive localization from a novel's worth of text, some minor voice acting, etc.  I can see passing on localizing them even if the games had come out a year earlier, and the late release date is just the cherry on top.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, SnowFire said:

I think both FE12 and AAI2 could have been released in North America, even if a little "late" for the DS...  but...  frankly, they weren't that good.  And even if you disagree, their reputation was certainly mixed at best, and both sold quite poorly compared to series expectations in Japan.  So you're talking about "may lose money to localize, may reduce the value of the brand long-term if word spreads about it being bad."  (Side note: As someone who's played every mainline Ace Attorney game (i.e. excluding stuff like the Professor Layton crossover), I feel like I can pretty safely rank AAI2 as the worst of the series.  Which is still not a bad game overall because it's a good series, and it has its moments, but...  yeah.)

Really? I thought Investigations 2 was one of the more popular titles in Ace Attorney. And as someone who has also played all the Ace Attorney games I wouldn't rank it the worst. I would definitely rank it above the original Investigations which I feel is a much weaker title (the best games imo are Trials and Tribulations and Justice for All, though Ace Attorney is probably better ranked by individual trials than by overall games).

Edited December 6, 2023 by Jotari

[Saint Rubenio]

3 hours ago, SnowFire said:

I feel like I can pretty safely rank AAI2 as the worst of the series.

Hello, it's me, the guy that calls AAI2 his favorite Ace Attorney game.

...That's all.

[Punished Dayni]

So I've been playing Fell Xenologue. How unpopular is it to be bothered by the execution of it's story? I wasn't spoiler free going in admittedly, but the handling of the world, the other twist's implications for how little agency really was there all along and that ending.... well, certainly was a choice.

I will say that boss was fascinating as a fight (Frustrating too), though of course Eirika was crucial again. This has been a thing in Engage I worry about sometimes.

18 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Who's getting excited for a new game on yesterday's system? Pokemon fans notwithstanding...

Excuse me. You mean PEAK.

So peak I got White 2 day one, a feat that wouldn't be matched for 9 years.

But in all seriousness, considering how the 3DS did in the first year or so of sales, it probably would have liked better first game . Now Game Freak probably could have cut out BW2 from development to get a title out sooner for 3DS, but that's not what happened there. Some of that could be driven by GF going for the established base they had for the DS games with how Unova was a bit of a sales dip (A crying shame, because again PEAK), combined with keeping to the same hardware base for the game that was a direct sequel to their previous title.

19 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

To pay homage to this, Nintendo will remake and rerelease Thracia 776, but only to players who have accumulated (and are willing to spend) 10,000 Platinum coins on their "My Nintendo" account.

[Jotari]

25 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

So I've been playing Fell Xenologue. How unpopular is it to be bothered by the execution of it's story? I wasn't spoiler free going in admittedly, but the handling of the world, the other twist's implications for how little agency really was there all along and that ending.... well, certainly was a choice.

I will say that boss was fascinating as a fight (Frustrating too), though of course Eirika was crucial again. This has been a thing in Engage I worry about sometimes.

For my opinion on the Fell Xenologue's epic plot twist, see here

25 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

Excuse me. You mean PEAK.

So peak I got White 2 day one, a feat that wouldn't be matched for 9 years.

But in all seriousness, considering how the 3DS did in the first year or so of sales, it probably would have liked better first game . Now Game Freak probably could have cut out BW2 from development to get a title out sooner for 3DS, but that's not what happened there. Some of that could be driven by GF going for the established base they had for the DS games with how Unova was a bit of a sales dip (A crying shame, because again PEAK), combined with keeping to the same hardware base for the game that was a direct sequel to their previous title.

Honestly it's a bit strange they even made the original Black and White to begin with and didn't just stick to the one generation per hand held console format they'd established before. They could have kept things spinning without a whole lot of effort and still earned a bunch of money.

[Samz707]

On 12/5/2023 at 4:43 PM, lenticular said:

I've always thought of Shadows of Valentia as being the Fire Emblem with the most in common with a romance story. Alm and Celica's relationship is a core part of the story, and it also features a fair few romance tropes: the outside forces keeping them apart, the argument/misunderstanding, the grand sacrificial gesture, the ultimate happily ever after style ending. By contrast, while matchmaking is important to the gameplay of Awakening and Fates, it's almost entirely unimportant to the story, so neither one of those games really has the feel or the flavour of a romance.

(Also, for the record, I do read romance novels and have a whole lot of thoughts on the genre, but this thread seems like an entirely inappropriate venue for them.)

The Echoes pairings did work for me.

I guess I mean more the "Matchmaker" Fire Emblem games or whatever you want to call the "Supports for child units" games thing.

Since as you said, the romance is purely contained to  supports and the quality of it is on par with the rest of the writing in those games. (So bad) 

Granted 3H has matchmaker-y stuff and I liked it there but I think that's more a Testament to the writing quality of Fodlan.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

though Ace Attorney is probably better ranked by individual trials than by overall games).

Ace Attorney "have a third case that's actually good" challenge

3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Hello, it's me, the guy that calls AAI2 his favorite Ace Attorney game.

...That's all.

Yeah, I haven't played AAI2, but I've heard really good things about it. Of course, every review is anecdotal on some level, so it's hard to evaluate its "objective" quality. My own "gut feeling" is that it was more of a timing issue.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Honestly it's a bit strange they even made the original Black and White to begin with and didn't just stick to the one generation per hand held console format they'd established before. They could have kept things spinning without a whole lot of effort and still earned a bunch of money.

It was very weird for me, coming of age in the GBC/A era, to see another "generation" on the same console. Admittedly, though, RBY came out (internationally) super late in the Game Boy's lifecycle, while the Color and Advance had relatively short reigns. The DS went 7 years strong, and it probably could've lasted another year.

1 hour ago, Punished Dayni said:

But in all seriousness, considering how the 3DS did in the first year or so of sales, it probably would have liked better first game . Now Game Freak probably could have cut out BW2 from development to get a title out sooner for 3DS, but that's not what happened there. Some of that could be driven by GF going for the established base they had for the DS games with how Unova was a bit of a sales dip (A crying shame, because again PEAK), combined with keeping to the same hardware base for the game that was a direct sequel to their previous title.

Admittedly, Pokemon has always been late to the party. The original RG came out in 1996, while RB made it out of Japan in 1998. On a console that came out in 1989/90. Months before the Game Boy Color was due out. RS took about 18 months, while Diamond & Pearl came out about 30 months after the DS in North America. Likewise for X & Y. Game Freak probably don't want to get out in front of any unproven console.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Punished Dayni said:

So I've been playing Fell Xenologue. How unpopular is it to be bothered by the execution of it's story? I wasn't spoiler free going in admittedly, but the handling of the world, the other twist's implications for how little agency really was there all along and that ending.... well, certainly was a choice.

I will say that boss was fascinating as a fight (Frustrating too), though of course Eirika was crucial again. This has been a thing in Engage I worry about sometimes.

Quite unpopular, apparently. The prevailing notion from what I recall is that FX's story was much better than the main game's.

I disagree. Feels just darker and edgier and Darkness Induced Audience Apathy on me... but that's just me.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ace Attorney "have a third case that's actually good" challenge

Yeah, I haven't played AAI2, but I've heard really good things about it. Of course, every review is anecdotal on some level, so it's hard to evaluate its "objective" quality. My own "gut feeling" is that it was more of a timing issue.

It was very weird for me, coming of age in the GBC/A era, to see another "generation" on the same console. Admittedly, though, RBY came out (internationally) super late in the Game Boy's lifecycle, while the Color and Advance had relatively short reigns. The DS went 7 years strong, and it probably could've lasted another year.

Admittedly, Pokemon has always been late to the party. The original RG came out in 1996, while RB made it out of Japan in 1998. On a console that came out in 1989/90. Months before the Game Boy Color was due out. RS took about 18 months, while Diamond & Pearl came out about 30 months after the DS in North America. Likewise for X & Y. Game Freak probably don't want to get out in front of any unproven console.

It's really down to Pokemon's recurring issue of playing it too safe. It's been four years guys and the DS is still going strong. What should we do? Silver/Gold remake? Something like Pokemon Coliseum again? Shake up the formula entirely somehow? Nah, let's just get the artists in here to design a few more Pokemon and release a new generation. Then we can do all that same stuff only now it feels vaguely newer.

Admittedly effort went into making Black and White, more than a lot of the games actually, but it was still a safe play.