Fire Emblem 4 Echoes Ideas

[Shadow Mir]

19 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

You can visit Pawnshop at every castle you captured, not just main castle, so you can sell/buy the items with a minimum few turns before you're ready to march to the next castle, backtracking is not required that much.

If I had just killed a boss that was guarding a castle, then it's fine since that castle's soon to be mine anyway. But if it happens to be a drop from someone who was defeated en route to the next castle? Then that's a good few turns spent backtracking to a previous castle with both the unit that obtained the item and the unit that is intended to receive the item if I want to make use of the item ASAP. That's what I take issue with.

[Acacia Sgt]

If it's a boss fought en route to a castle chances are it will be faster to just press onwards and make the exchange there than backtrack.

[Shadow Mir]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

If it's a boss fought en route to a castle chances are it will be faster to just press onwards and make the exchange there than backtrack.

That depends. Especially with Generals and their Great Shield, where unless I'm supremely lucky, they might take a while to die.

[Shrimpica]

8 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

If it's a boss fought en route to a castle chances are it will be faster to just press onwards and make the exchange there than backtrack.

That's still a few turns until the next Castle. + The Trade itself you have to:

1. go to castle with first unit
2. go to shop
3. Sell
4. go out
5. move your unit away
6. then move your 2nd unit into the castle
7. go to shop
8. buy (if enough money, if not, ARENA TIME (if you didn't already)-> more Actions)
9. go out

9 Actions just to trade an item. And that's even not counting the fact that not all units will be at the castle at the same time (especially if you wanna Trade Horsey -> Footie). That's ridiculous. Especially with the bleh Town music not making things easier.

Compare that to normal FE where trading an item is just a click.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Shrimperor

[Tetragrammaton]

24 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

???

I fail to see what battle prep has to do with trading an item you found mid-chapter.

 

7 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

That's still a few turns until the next Castle. + The Trade itself you have to:

1. go to castle with first unit
2. go to shop
3. Sell
4. go out
5. move your unit away
6. then move your 2nd unit into the castle
7. go to shop
8. buy (if enough money, if not, ARENA TIME (if you didn't already)-> more Actions)
9. go out

9 Actions just to trade an item. And that's even not counting the fact that not all units will be at the castle at the same time (especially if you wanna Trade Horsey -> Footie). That's ridiculous. Especially with the bleh Town music not making things easier.

Compare that to normal FE where trading an item is just a click.

That's why I ask how much time you spend for those processes.

[Acacia Sgt]

22 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

That's still a few turns until the next Castle. + The Trade itself you have to:

1. go to castle with first unit
2. go to shop
3. Sell
4. go out
5. move your unit away
6. then move your 2nd unit into the castle
7. go to shop
8. buy (if enough money, if not, ARENA TIME (if you didn't already)-> more Actions)
9. go out

9 Actions just to trade an item. And that's even not counting the fact that not all units will be at the castle at the same time (especially if you wanna Trade Horsey -> Footie). That's ridiculous.

Well, let's see...

Prologue: No items dropped from non-castle bosses.

Chapter 1: Kinbois is closer to Genoa than Evans. You would actually have to let him get closer to Evans than intercept him.

Chapter 2: By the time you reach Elliot, he's likely at Nodion so no need to return to Evans. Phillip doesn't move, best I remember, and is closer to Heirhein than Nodion. Voltz appears far from Anphony he's still likely to be closer to there than Heirhein unless you let him, but you have to backtrack to Herhein to get to Mackilly anyway, so it doesn't matter here. Zyne likewise appears behind Agusty, you would have to let him get closer to Mackilly than just intercept him while he's near Agusty.

Chapter 3: If you're quick to talk/kill Eldigan, Papillon has time to reach Silvail while you're sieging so no need to head to Agusty or Madino. Pizar might be one that could be faster to backtrack to Madino than press on to Orgahill, but he spawns kinda equidistant to both, so it depends of he bothers to head south to the chokepoint, or remain in the area going after Briggid.

Chapter 4: No items dropped from non-castle bosses.

Chapter 5: No items dropped from non-castle bosses.

For now just Gen 1. So, of the 7 non-castle bosses that drop items in Gen 1, only 1 is likely to need the backtracking. Two are borderline, but it's on the player to arrive there in time, so if they delay, it's more on them than the boss.

May do Gen 2, if needed.

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[Shrimpica]

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

-snip-

you forgot the villages.

And the freaking item inheritance management that is ch5. Had to backtrack 2 hours across the desert to the castle to i can move items around how i want em to, because you don't get to do that before BBQ.

[Tetragrammaton]

2 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

you forgot the villages.

And the freaking item inheritance management that is ch5. Had to backtrack 2 hours across the desert to the castle to i can move items around how i want em to, because you don't get to do that before BBQ.

What? 2 hours?

Phinora and Velthomer are so close.

[Shrimpica]

1 minute ago, hanhnn said:

What? 2 hours?

Phinora and Velthomer are so close.

Desert. Makes ''close'' feel like the distance between Goldoa and Daein

[Acacia Sgt]

8 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

you forgot the villages.

And the freaking item inheritance management that is ch5. Had to backtrack 2 hours across the desert to the castle to i can move items around how i want em to, because you don't get to do that before BBQ.

Villages can be planned who to visit, unlike bosses where you may not have who you want deal the final blow.

Also, there's the matter that since the Pawn Shop can be visited at any castle, then you can have Character X place item in Pawn Shop at Castle A, then Character Y can buy it at Pawn Shop from Castle B. No need to have both units in the same castle for the transaction.

Unless you really REALLY need a certain item distribution to fight LEptor and his troops, just do the item transfers at Phinora when you first reach it. Don't fight Leptor and then backtrack. Really...

Edited April 7, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[Shrimpica]

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Villages can be planned who to visit

not if you play blind.

After first Run, sure, but on first run, nope, you don't know what village gives what, and i am the type of player who likes to play his games as blind as possible.

If i need to check an external source for something basic as item Management, then that's a flaw in the game design

Edited April 7, 2018 by Shrimperor

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

not if you play blind.

After first Run, sure, but on first run, nope, you don't know what village gives what, and i am the type of player who likes to play his games as blind as possible

To be fair, that's more on you than the game, then. That's the point of playing blind. Mistakes will happen. The whole point of a blind run is to learn first-hand than just check a walkthrough or be told by someone else. A game should allow you to make mistakes and learn from then, not hand-hold you all the way.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Acacia Sgt

[Shrimpica]

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

To be fair, that's more on you than the game, then. That's the point of playing blind. Mistakes will happen. The whole point of a blind run is to learn first-hand than just check a walkthrough or be told by someone else. A game should allow you to make mistakes and learn from then, not hand-hold you all the way.

There is a difference between a mistake from player side (bad tactics leading units to die for example) and artificial ''Mistakes'' the player can do nothing about (Shit item Management in FE4, Same Turn Reinforcements in FE6/12/13).

 

If i have to reset, it's because of a mistake of my own, and not something the game failed to tell me

Edited April 7, 2018 by Shrimperor

[BBM]

Honestly other than the Elite Ring and Hero Sword, I can't think of many situations where I've ever gotten an item and wanted to trade it immediately. Almost everything other than the Elite Ring and Pursuit Ring are cheap anyways. And sure I guess if the mounted unit is the one who gets the item it costs the infantry to buy it, but there are lots of cases where infantry end up with the item through events and villages. Not to mention there are cases where you should split your party up and the infantry should kill the enemies and get the items (eg the Orgahill pirates in C3).

The real thing that needs to get fixed here is for Sigurd and Lex to not be close to invincible and able to ORKO everything by themselves. Then you need to slow down and then the fact that Ayra/Holyn/Jamka etc are better than their mounted counterparts at fighting actually matters because they can keep up. And then if you fix weapon crit so you don't have 50 crit Light Sword and Hero Sword, Celice can't solo either.

Why wouldn't you transfer items at the castle before the desert??? 

Even if you're playing blind, where are the situations where a unit can't wait until the next castle to get the item?

Like sure some of this stuff can be inconvenient but honestly I really feel it adds more to the game than it takes away.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Shrimperor said:

This is offtopic, but i consider Skills to be an integral part of FE, and one of the reasons i can't stand GBAFE is the lack of skills tbh

Speaking of Skills, i'd like the FE4 remake to replace them with Arts. I just find it so much better when it's not left up to RNG.

1 hour ago, hanhnn said:

You can visit Pawnshop at every castle you captured, not just main castle, so you can sell/buy the items with a minimum few turns before you're ready to march to the next castle, backtracking is not required that much.

I know it can be done at every captured castle but there's still a fair amount of backtracking to be done occasionally. It's just inconvenient.

1 minute ago, BBM said:

Like sure some of this stuff can be inconvenient but honestly I really feel it adds more to the game than it takes away.

Wait, how does inconvenience add to a game? That doesn't make sense.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Shrimperor said:

There is a difference between a mistake from player side (bad tactics leading units to die for example) and artificial ''Mistakes'' the player can do nothing about (Shit item Management in FE4, Same Turn Reinforcements in FE6/11/13).

Item management is only an issue when not knowing of village items. Boss-items indicate you if they are being dropped, and once again, PAwn Shop can be accessed from any castle, so despite how time-space defying is to buy something in one castle that was sold at in a completely different one, it saves you the hassle to have to do it at the same one, forcing tedious unit movements.

Can't comment much on same turn reinforcements. I've never minded them. It's true when there's no indication reinfrocements will appear at any given point (say, obvious map edges or forts and stuff), I'll give you that.

[BBM]

c'mon now you're being facetious. what I meant is that it adds more to the game than it takes away through its inconvenience. it makes you have to actually put units in positions to get the items you want them to get. maybe if you want Lachesis to get that Elite Ring so that she can become a Master Knight quicker, you have to actually set up a kill for her rather than having her get it for free. if you want Cuan to get the Silver Lance, have him kill Elliot, etc.

the argument that it reinforces horse emblem is silly. if you're horse embleming the game and having them kill all the bosses, why do you even want to give the drops to infantry? and if you're not doing it that way, then have the infantry kill the bosses.

and item inheritance is a cool thing that adds tradeoffs to certain pairings... like for example Lex is generally speaking a very good dad because he gives Elite and makes his kids bulky, but if you do that his son (or if you pair him with Briggid, Patty) is stuck with an iron weapon at start.

[Shrimpica]

6 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Speaking of Skills, i'd like the FE4 remake to replace them with Arts. I just find it so much better when it's not left up to RNG.

Turning some Passives to Actives in General would be awesome tbh. However i am not sure HP as activation cost is a good idea. Some can stay Passive (Wrath/Adept/Vantage/etc.) while Luna/Sol/Astra/etc should become active

How about making the skills have to (re-)charge, with charge speed depending on Skill Stat. For Example, Astra would've a Charge Time of 100, and if a unit has 20Skl, it takes 5 battles to charge.

[Jave]

One thing I feel could work to make trading less tedious would be to create a new character for the remake that basically acts like a Merlinus, maybe even Anna herself. She would simply carry the whole convoy with her and every time you want to trade, you do it through her.

[Shrimpica]

2 minutes ago, BBM said:

and item inheritance is a cool thing that adds tradeoffs to certain pairings...

It's not really, considering unequipable items get thrown away somewhere.

Stat (gain) + Holy Blood + Skills is enough for inheritance and is plenty already.

[Shadow Mir]

18 minutes ago, BBM said:

The real thing that needs to get fixed here is for Sigurd and Lex to not be close to invincible and able to ORKO everything by themselves. Then you need to slow down and then the fact that Ayra/Holyn/Jamka etc are better than their mounted counterparts at fighting actually matters because they can keep up. And then if you fix weapon crit so you don't have 50 crit Light Sword and Hero Sword, Celice can't solo either.

What about weapon balance? Because I think it's pretty retarded that axes and fire magic are stupidly heavy relative to other weapons... And Pursuit either needs to go entirely, or if they keep it, simply make follow-ups easier relative to without it.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Armagon]

6 minutes ago, BBM said:

the argument that it reinforces horse emblem is silly. if you're horse embleming the game and having them kill all the bosses, why do you even want to give the drops to infantry? and if you're not doing it that way, then have the infantry kill the bosses.

I mean.....the game is Horse Emblem Supreme regardless. The reason anyone would want to give the drops to the infantry is so they don't fall behind but they're already falling behind anyway.

6 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

How about making the skills have to (re-)charge, with charge speed depending on Skill Stat. For Example, Astra would've a Charge Time of 100, and if a unit has 20Skl, it takes 5 battles to charge.

I mean, at that point, why not just have the Heroes way of handling it?

5 minutes ago, Jave said:

One thing I feel could work to make trading less tedious would be to create a new character for the remake that basically acts like a Merlinus, maybe even Anna herself. She would simply carry the whole convoy with her and every time you want to trade, you do it through her.

Boi, in all my arguments of trying to make FE4 a better game, not once did i ever think of this. This is a genius idea. FE4 allows all units to be on the map, so having a portable convoy won't take up any slots. They could also just give it to the Lord like in recent games.

[Tetragrammaton]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

What about weapon balance? Because I think it's pretty retarded that axes and fire magic are stupidly heavy relative to other weapons...

For this, I'm pretty sure they will fix it, and no one against this improvement.

8 minutes ago, BBM said:

c'mon now you're being facetious. what I meant is that it adds more to the game than it takes away through its inconvenience. it makes you have to actually put units in positions to get the items you want them to get. maybe if you want Lachesis to get that Elite Ring so that she can become a Master Knight quicker, you have to actually set up a kill for her rather than having her get it for free. if you want Cuan to get the Silver Lance, have him kill Elliot, etc.

the argument that it reinforces horse emblem is silly. if you're horse embleming the game and having them kill all the bosses, why do you even want to give the drops to infantry? and if you're not doing it that way, then have the infantry kill the bosses.

and item inheritance is a cool thing that adds tradeoffs to certain pairings... like for example Lex is generally speaking a very good dad because he gives Elite and makes his kids bulky, but if you do that his son (or if you pair him with Briggid, Patty) is stuck with an iron weapon at start.

Now think of it, if everyone can trade, 100* Light Sword, Elite Ring and Pursuit Ring would be free for everyone to use.

[BBM]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

What about weapon balance? Because I think it's pretty retarded that axes and fire magic are stupidly heavy relative to other weapons...

that too, sure, but this doesn't really hurt many people, and movement is a bigger problem for the people whom it does hurt

3 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

It's not really, considering unequipable items get thrown away somewhere.

Stat (gain) + Holy Blood + Skills is enough for inheritance and is plenty already.

The Hero Axe is the only weapon that can't get passed down...? and you get it back almost right away

I guess this is an issue if you're playing blind and screw up all your pairings, but if you do that, again you have bigger problems.

[Shrimpica]

7 minutes ago, hanhnn said:

Elite Ring and Pursuit Ring would be free for everyone to use.

as i said in the last page

Quote

Skills + Holy blood + stat (gains) should be plenty enough. No need to make the game tedious just to inherit weapons. If you are worried about Skill Rings, just make skill Rings non-tradeable and to transfer them you have to pay a specialist at base to do so.

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Shrimperor