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Ideas for FEH


Rapier
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Understandably, the game has expanded a lot since it was released, and with it the amount of playable characters. The problem is that this increasing number of playable characters is not being accompanied by a proportionate number of orbs (I'm not saying we're not been given more orbs, only that this amount isn't really enough), and the chances of drawing characters grow ever thin.

To at least mend this issue, I suggest a few unoriginal measures:

- Add the Infernal difficulty for all Story Maps and Paralogue Maps and have them give one orb for each stage completion;

- Make an alternate currency that can be used instead of orbs (for summoning, expanding the barracks, upgrading the castle etc.), like with Fate GO. This currency should be obtainable from doing quests, going rounds in the arena and obtained as Tempest Trial rewards, and it should be technically infinite - it just costs a lot to do stuff with it, and requires grinding for methods that are not quest/TT rewards;

- Separate staff users from bow/shuriken users, because it's time we clean the colorless hell. To deal with the issue of having 6 types of Summoning Orbs, increase their number from 5 to 6 and code it so that only 4 Summoning Orbs of the same color can appear in a session;

- Increase the chances of drawing a character that hasn't been drawn yet. I think increasing it by 2% is a good number, but I still need to think if this number is going to be the same for all stars, or which number would be ideal for each unit star type;

- Take the "one free summon per day" idea that Fate GO uses and implement it.

Edited by Rapier
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3 minutes ago, Rapier said:

Add the Infernal difficulty for all Story Maps and Paralogue Maps and have them give one orb for each stage completion;

This actually could happen

I am just unsure if the story mode is supposed to be super duper hard. I mean, the GHBs and BHBs were meant to be challenges so they got infernal. Not sure about those though

I'll never say no to more orbs on the other hand

4 minutes ago, Rapier said:

Make an alternate currency that can be used instead of orbs (for summoning, expanding the barracks, upgrading the castle etc.), like with Fate GO. This currency should be obtainable from doing quests, going rounds in the arena and obtained as Tempest Trial rewards, and it should be technically infinite - it just costs a lot to do stuff with it, and requires grinding for methods that are not quest/TT rewards;

Making new currency means you'd need to add new methods to get them. I think we already have enough different types of currency, Refining Stones, Divine Dew, Arena Medals, Sacred Coins, Feathers, and everyone's favorite, ORBS (I am not sure if I missed any)
EDIT:
Badges! Forgot about those lol

I mean, realistically; you're not forced to spend orbs on anything. MKV showed that lol You can go through the whole game without spending a single orb. If you dont want to spend orbs to expand your barracks then dont spend orbs to expand your barracks. But if you're a whale or something you'd eventually need to, I guess.... now we have 300 slots so to me it's more of a non issue. Upgrading the castle was kinda tedious, but considering how many orbs they give you to start.... it doesn't really take much

We get over 200 orbs a month. November gave us 263 orbs. Each orb gives 5 unit slots... that's 1,315 unit slots right there! :PPPpppp

As far as a new currency for summoning.... that makes sense. Maybe it could happen, but giving us a free summon from each banner is already good enough for me. Thats basically 5 free orbs!

14 minutes ago, Rapier said:

Separate staff users from bow/shuriken users, because it's time we clean the colorless hell.

They buffed staves now so maybe people won't be as... unhappy about pulling a Serra or two?

I think this probably won't happen.... something about that seems unnecessary. It is a good idea though. I mean, who actually needs a 5 star Mist?!?!

18 minutes ago, Rapier said:

To deal with the issue of having 6 types of Summoning Orbs, increase their number from 5 to 6 and code it so that only 4 Summoning Orbs of the same color can appear in a session

Gacha is built on "no guarantees", that's how they make cash uwe hee hee

Well, the only guarantee is anything they give you for free, but that's beside the point lol

19 minutes ago, Rapier said:

Increase the chances of drawing a character that hasn't been drawn yet. I think increasing it by 2% is a good number;

HECK YEAH

I want Ryoma... so bad. Not sure if it'll ever happen though.... I've never seen anything like this in gacha before 

23 minutes ago, Rapier said:

Take the "one free summon per day" idea that Fate GO uses and implement it.

One summon per day

One summon per banner

I think it balances out.... right?
Are FGO and FEH the only gachas you play

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So my personal ideas (will never happen though)

1. Make orbs grindable, like have a special map challenge that rewards 1 orb for every five clears and make it cost 10 stamina an attempt, it would encourage more stamina potion usage (and orb usage if people were out of orbs) and f2p players could grind it forever (I myself got 210+ stamina potions so I certainly would) while it could still be too long for some people and they will buy orbs instead.

2. A character shop, what I mean by this is have random characters available to be purchased by orbs, it could be something like a random 5*, new 5*, or out of season character, to balance this the prices could be 50 orbs, 75 orbs, and 75 orbs. As those will take some time to obtain and you are giving up at least 10 units to get one five star.

3. Currency converter, cause I'm doing nothing with the 300+ dueling crests I have laying around.

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Cooking up ideas for FEH is hard because it's not my place to say "Fire Emblem Heroes needs to give players more orbs, feathers, etc." I only have my experience to go on and I feel like they give plenty of orbs, and definitely more feathers then I feel like I've earned. Regarding infernal difficulty for story mode, I was thinking they just do a collection of lunatic quests for each chapter rewarding another orb on the game's anniversary. And you have a year to clean up those quests just like the "Shards and Crystals" quests you already forgot existed. Because incentivising players to go back and play the game again is good filler. Keep infernal difficulties for the challenge maps.

There are two things in particular I want to see. The first is I want there to be a way to collect previous seasonal heroes. Limited availability is my most hated aspect about this game, and the worst part is not knowing when/if they ever will return. So I'd like a way to spend a finite resource (anything you couldn't grind, like sacred coins or orbs) to just buy a neutral summon of a seasonal hero. Ditto for TT reward units and the sacred seals that might not come back.

The second thing is a personal focus mechanic. You select a character that's in the normal summoning pool, and they will be a focus unit sharing a focus rate along with any banner you decide to summon from. I think this idea would be paired well with demoting units from the 5 star pool if they ever decide to do that. Because whales like 5 star units that they can get +10 versions of. But they can't do it if they're dropped to 3-4 star rarity. With a personal focus unit, you can pull 3-4 star units at 5 star rarity, as well as create an avenue for F2P players to get +10 5 star units of their own. Oh, and in order to switch your personal focus unit, you gotta spend orbs. Otherwise you can only "toggle" on and off that unit's odds of appearing. This game likes choices to have some level of permanency, and gacha games are all about making money off a person's weak willpower and indecisiveness.

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1 hour ago, Rapier said:

- Make an alternate currency that can be used instead of orbs (for summoning, expanding the barracks, upgrading the castle etc.), like with Fate GO. This currency should be obtainable from doing quests, going rounds in the arena and obtained as Tempest Trial rewards, and it should be technically infinite - it just costs a lot to do stuff with it, and requires grinding for methods that are not quest/TT rewards;

I'm trying to figure out what alternate currency you're talking about. F/GO has Mana Prisms, which are used for entirely different things, tickets, which are essentially SQ that can only be used for summoning and nothing else, and a bunch of other things that are not substitutes for SQ.

 

1 hour ago, Rapier said:

- Separate staff users from bow/shuriken users, because it's time we clean the colorless hell. To deal with the issue of having 6 types of Summoning Orbs, increase their number from 5 to 6 and code it so that only 4 Summoning Orbs of the same color can appear in a session;

It's already amazing that we can pick the color of the character when summoning. None of the other games I'm familiar with (F/GO, Tales of Asteria, PaD) do this. You just pick how many times you pull and hope for the best.

 

1 hour ago, Rapier said:

- Increase the chances of drawing a character that hasn't been drawn yet. I think increasing it by 2% is a good number, but I still need to think if this number is going to be the same for all stars, or which number would be ideal for each unit star type;

It's already amazing that our 5-star summon rate increases when you fail to summon a 5-star. Again, no other game I'm familiar with does anything similar.

On top of that, Heroes's "rate-up" system uses a separate 3% rate character pool. F/GO's "rate-up" system just gives certain characters and equips a higher rate within their normal low pull rate (1% for 5-star characters, 3% for 5-star equips).

It's physically impossible to get the Stahn curse in Heroes because after 120 failures, you are guaranteed a full set of 5 5-star pulls.

 

1 hour ago, Rapier said:

- Take the "one free summon per day" idea that Fate GO uses and implement it.

F/GO's free summon per day is from a summoning pool of 1- to 3-star "things" (all kinds of things, really) where 3-star "things" are rare. (Granted, there are a few useful 1-star and 2-star pulls in the mix.)

That would be the equivalent of a summoning pool in Heroes consisting of 1- to 3-star versions of the Hero Battle characters with a 50% chance of 1-star, 40% chance of 2-star, and 10% chance of 3-star.

 

tl;dr: Heroes is already spoiling us.

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This will probably never happen but I'd like to see a Hero "store" alongside/ instead of the banners (the latter especially if the lootbox outrage reaches all the way to Japan and the F2P market):

Have each Hero be available at a fixed price based on their rarity, e.g. any 3* for 15 Orbs, 4* for 20, 5* for 30, with the 5* cost for Focus units dropped to 20 for the duration of the banner. This way we're still encouraged to grind/ buy Orbs ASAP and avoids the frustration of bloated summoning pools and pity breakers. Granted, the latter is how IS makes money, but I feel people would be more willing to pay up if they had the option to guarantee exactly what they'd get (I know I would).

Also, you could gauge your Orb usage based on your number of Feathers, e.g. opting for a 3 or 4* Hero because you have enough Feathers to make them a 5* (thus saving 15/ 10 Orbs).

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11 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

e.g. any 3* for 15 Orbs, 4* for 20, 5* for 30,

You realize that the average cost of a single 5-star focus character (assuming all other possibilities are considered worthless to you) when summoning is around 150-200 orbs, yes?

No one would pull for additional copies of 5-star characters the moment they get one with an optimal nature if the prices were as cheap as you propose.

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21 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You realize that the average cost of a single 5-star focus character (assuming all other possibilities are considered worthless to you) when summoning is around 150-200 orbs, yes?

No one would pull for additional copies of 5-star characters the moment they get one with an optimal nature if the prices were as cheap as you propose.

 

16 minutes ago, Arcanite said:

You know we get over 200 orbs a month right

HEHEH

I just came up with those numbers on the spot. I don't think the cost of a 5* should exceed 50 Orbs though. What about 25 for a 3*, 40 for a 4*?

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1 hour ago, LucarioGamer812 said:

3. Currency converter, cause I'm doing nothing with the 300+ dueling crests I have laying around.

Dueling crests can effectively be converted into Arena medals.

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2 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

I don't think the cost of a 5* should exceed 50 Orbs though.

Far too cheap, which is why 5-star characters shouldn't be directly purchasable with the premium currency in the first place. Any price higher than ~50 orbs is an obvious rip-off and any price lower than ~100 orbs is too much better than trying to pull for the character through normal summoning.

F/GO has a system where every copy of a 5-star character you pull after you have already pulled 5 copies of that character (the maximum "merge") gives you a token. You can trade 10 tokens for any 5-star character of your choice as long as the character is currently on at least one currently running banner or is in the regular summoning pool. This system is completely useless in F/GO because the rate of pulling a 5-star character is so abysmally small that most players never see more than two or three copies of a single 5-star character ever.

However, something similar can be done in Heroes. Every 5-star character you pull could give you a token. You could potentially trade, say, 20 tokens for a free 5-star of your choice. This would encourage summoning for characters rather than discourage it and allow players who did not get the characters they want to have a path towards getting the characters they want.

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What I'm me interested right now is an update to the damage calculator. At the moment it shows AOE+ att * n(number of attacks). It does not show what the final damage before battle, only afterwards. 

For example if Delthae hits Sigurd it shows what the damage would normally be and the results show the real damage (its 50% less for the first hit and then 80% less). 

I would hope that it would not be too much work. 

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5 minutes ago, Rezanator said:

What I'm me interested right now is an update to the damage calculator. At the moment it shows AOE+ att * n(number of attacks). It does not show what the final damage before battle, only afterwards. 

For example if Delthae hits Sigurd it shows what the damage would normally be and the results show the real damage (its 50% less for the first hit and then 80% less). 

I would hope that it would not be too much work. 

Problems:

  • Showing actual damage per hit means you cannot indicate that the unit will perform a follow-up attack if the unit is killed by the counterattack (because those attacks never happen). This is not helpful if you want to quickly know if you will perform a follow-up attack and then figure out if you need to bring in a Spur/Drive to avoid being killed.
  • Space restrictions for Brave weapons. Showing a weapon as hitting for "10 + 10 + 27 + 10 + 27" (AoE skill plus four hits) takes up a lot of space.
    • If you want to show modified damage as additions or subtractions to the base damage (because the base damage is useful to know), it gets worse: "10 + 10 + 10 + 17 + 10 + 10 + 17".
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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's already amazing that our 5-star summon rate increases when you fail to summon a 5-star. Again, no other game I'm familiar with does anything similar.

FFRK used to do this in Japan (they've since replaced it with a system where you're outright guaranteed a minimum of one 5-star on every 11-pull).  The pity rate mechanic (FFRK's fanbase called it rolling gacha) never came to FFRK global, but the guaranteed 5-star did.

Edited by Reiska
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4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Problems:

  • Showing actual damage per hit means you cannot indicate that the unit will perform a follow-up attack if the unit is killed by the counterattack (because those attacks never happen). This is not helpful if you want to quickly know if you will perform a follow-up attack and then figure out if you need to bring in a Spur/Drive to avoid being killed.
  • Space restrictions for Brave weapons. Showing a weapon as hitting for "10 + 10 + 27 + 10 + 27" (AoE skill plus four hits) takes up a lot of space.
    • If you want to show modified damage as additions or subtractions to the base damage (because the base damage is useful to know), it gets worse: "10 + 10 + 10 + 17 + 10 + 10 + 17".

I'm going to think about this. I don't like  using mobile to respond. 

On a side note, the length of descriptions for abilities is free game right :D:

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1 minute ago, Rezanator said:

On a side note, the length of descriptions for abilities is free game right

That text box is expandable, so as long as the description fits on one screen without scrolling, it's good.

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1 hour ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Dueling crests can effectively be converted into Arena medals.

True, but only a handful of units I use are eligible for those, besides Lilina, I haven't used any yet because I don't use most of those units, I will probably upgrade some seasonal weapons but besides those I mainly just need the divine dew for Ephraim. (it will fix his -atk nature)

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5 hours ago, Rapier said:

- Separate staff users from bow/shuriken users, because it's time we clean the colorless hell. To deal with the issue of having 6 types of Summoning Orbs, increase their number from 5 to 6 and code it so that only 4 Summoning Orbs of the same color can appear in a session;

I actually prefer the way it is now. I need 4* healers as Feather fodder, and 5* healers for their skills to deck out Elise.

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7 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

This will probably never happen but I'd like to see a Hero "store" alongside/ instead of the banners (the latter especially if the lootbox outrage reaches all the way to Japan and the F2P market):

Have each Hero be available at a fixed price based on their rarity, e.g. any 3* for 15 Orbs, 4* for 20, 5* for 30, with the 5* cost for Focus units dropped to 20 for the duration of the banner. This way we're still encouraged to grind/ buy Orbs ASAP and avoids the frustration of bloated summoning pools and pity breakers. Granted, the latter is how IS makes money, but I feel people would be more willing to pay up if they had the option to guarantee exactly what they'd get (I know I would).

Also, you could gauge your Orb usage based on your number of Feathers, e.g. opting for a 3 or 4* Hero because you have enough Feathers to make them a 5* (thus saving 15/ 10 Orbs).

Even though it would be quite convenient, a hero store would piss off lots of people who had paid for orbs - summoning heroes is part of what makes the game fun (and frustrating). If you could just buy the units you wanted, nobody would summon and the game would be at a huge loss and probably shut down sooner or later.

I think each summoning should have a guaranteed 5* unit, that way people wouldnt feel bad if the bought orbs and otherwise might have gotten nothing.

Just btw, people comparing this game to other gacha games, and saying how awesome this one is. We have to judge this game on its own. Its like saying the mafia is not as bad as the russian mafia or something. And if we compare - I recently checked out hearthstone (dont really like it very much and will not play it), hearthstone gives you the option to craft each and every card - and its also a gacha game. Thats why I dont like comparisons. Some games just rip you off more, some rip you off less. I would like feh to not rip us off at all  :)

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54 minutes ago, Prince Endriu said:

Just btw, people comparing this game to other gacha games, and saying how awesome this one is.

So you mean me.

The thing is you have to balance the amount of free or easy-to-obtain things with enough carrots to get enough of the player base to pay money. You need a particular balance between whales, minnows, and casuals free-to-players.

As you give out more free things, you will see some whales drop to minnows, and some minnows drop to free players, which costs revenue. On the other hand, this will spread by word of mouth how generous the game is, which may prompt some players who pick the game up to pay.

In general, Heroes appears to have been doing a good job of maintaining this balance. Pulls from the gacha are in general worth something (except Est and Oboro) even if the character itself is not useful to you because Skill Inheritance exists. All characters in the game can be promoted to higher rarity, which is actually rather uncommon among games of this type (most games assign each character a specific rarity, and if you like the character, but the character is a low rarity, you're usually out of luck in using them). There are clear goal posts that players can set on their way up the ladder. Power creep has been rather tame, and players just starting or players that have taken a break don't find themselves far behind the curve. Challenge content can be completed with easy-to-obtain team compositions with a bit of ingenuity. Stamina potions and dueling crests literally rain from the skies.

Sure, there are some quality-of-life improvements that can be had (please, can we have new skills available on more characters?), but in general, this game has been rather good at balancing free meat and cheese plates with hanging carrots.

 

57 minutes ago, Prince Endriu said:

hearthstone gives you the option to craft each and every card - and its also a gacha game. Thats why I dont like comparisons.

It's actually worthless to mention that a game has x mechanic without actually explaining what impact is has on the game and how relevant it is.

As I mentioned above, F/GO has a means of allowing a player to summon any 5-star character of their choosing, and 5-star characters have a horrendously bad 1% pull rate. This sounds amazing until you're told that the method of doing so involves pulling an absurd number of 5-star characters (especially since no players paying efficiently would ever try to pull for more than 5 copies of a character intentionally because every copy after the 5th is literally useless outside of its somewhat useful sell cost because you cannot field multiple of your own copies of a character), thus making the system utterly worthless.

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24 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

So you mean me.

The thing is you have to balance the amount of free or easy-to-obtain things with enough carrots to get enough of the player base to pay money. You need a particular balance between whales, minnows, and casuals free-to-players.

As you give out more free things, you will see some whales drop to minnows, and some minnows drop to free players, which costs revenue. On the other hand, this will spread by word of mouth how generous the game is, which may prompt some players who pick the game up to pay.

In general, Heroes appears to have been doing a good job of maintaining this balance. Pulls from the gacha are in general worth something (except Est and Oboro) even if the character itself is not useful to you because Skill Inheritance exists. All characters in the game can be promoted to higher rarity, which is actually rather uncommon among games of this type (most games assign each character a specific rarity, and if you like the character, but the character is a low rarity, you're usually out of luck in using them). There are clear goal posts that players can set on their way up the ladder. Power creep has been rather tame, and players just starting or players that have taken a break don't find themselves far behind the curve. Challenge content can be completed with easy-to-obtain team compositions with a bit of ingenuity. Stamina potions and dueling crests literally rain from the skies.

Sure, there are some quality-of-life improvements that can be had (please, can we have new skills available on more characters?), but in general, this game has been rather good at balancing free meat and cheese plates with hanging carrots.

 

It's actually worthless to mention that a game has x mechanic without actually explaining what impact is has on the game and how relevant it is.

As I mentioned above, F/GO has a means of allowing a player to summon any 5-star character of their choosing, and 5-star characters have a horrendously bad 1% pull rate. This sounds amazing until you're told that the method of doing so involves pulling an absurd number of 5-star characters (especially since no players paying efficiently would ever try to pull for more than 5 copies of a character intentionally because every copy after the 5th is literally useless outside of its somewhat useful sell cost because you cannot field multiple of your own copies of a character), thus making the system utterly worthless.

Like I said, I dont like comparing feh to other games. There will always be a mechanic that is better here and a mechanic that is better there. I play feh and I want this game to get better, not just in relation to pull rates and stuff, but also challenge and game modes. And no, I dont think IS is overly generous :)

.

 

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I think the season element is a good idea, but badly implemented.
It forces you to run a unit you might/dont want to run. The Bonus should be present without the Hero of the season, the hero of the season should just slap another bonus on top of it.

Also I wish they would incorporate the Seaons into specials:
Give Specials Elemental Affinitys (not all of them). If the Elemental Affinity matches the current Season Element, the Special trigger has a permanent cooldown -1 and +5additional dmg effect slaped on it or -5 dmg reduction slaped on it:

Example:
Fire Elemental: Blazing Flame, Bonfire, Glowing Ember, Growing Flame, Ignis, Kindled-Fire Balm (changes the buff to be +8 instead of +4), Rising Flame
Water Elemental: Chilling Wind, Glacies, Ice Mirror, Iceberg, Rising Thunder, Growing Thunder, Still-Water Balm
Wind Elemental: Blazing Wind, Galeforce, Growing Wind, Swift-Winds Balm, Miracle, Rising Wind
Earth Elemental: Aegis, Daylight, Blazing Light, Growing Light, Escutchon, Buckler, Holy Vestments, Noontime, Pavise, Sacred Cowl, Sol, Solid-Earth Balm

or somethign like that. But i would definitly leave some special outs from it (Personal Skills from units and Aithir, Astra Moonbow glimmer etc.) and leave those Specials as "non-Elemental"

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16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm trying to figure out what alternate currency you're talking about. F/GO has Mana Prisms, which are used for entirely different things, tickets, which are essentially SQ that can only be used for summoning and nothing else, and a bunch of other things that are not substitutes for SQ.

I was referring to tickets.

16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's already amazing that we can pick the color of the character when summoning. None of the other games I'm familiar with (F/GO, Tales of Asteria, PaD) do this. You just pick how many times you pull and hope for the best.

It's still problematic that I want to try to get, dunno, maybe Setsuna, and she's mixed with a ton of shurikens and staffbots which makes her chances of being drawn much more slim than the other colors'. FEH is more generous than the other gachas, but I don't see much point in comparing to worse things and using them as standards (I'm not saying these games are bad, by the way, only that we shouldn't really be saying "be glad FEH does X, some games does X but much worse!").

16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's already amazing that our 5-star summon rate increases when you fail to summon a 5-star. Again, no other game I'm familiar with does anything similar.

On top of that, Heroes's "rate-up" system uses a separate 3% rate character pool. F/GO's "rate-up" system just gives certain characters and equips a higher rate within their normal low pull rate (1% for 5-star characters, 3% for 5-star equips).

It's physically impossible to get the Stahn curse in Heroes because after 120 failures, you are guaranteed a full set of 5 5-star pulls.

I see. Also, where did you get that info about getting a full set of 5 5-star pulls after 120 failures? I can remember spending 200+ orbs to get Sigurd in that FE4 banner before Alvis' GHB. It's pretty stupid to have to spend 100+ for that, especially when banners bring 5* exclusive versions of chars, and it is even worse when we have more than one banner (hi FE9 banner running along the Legends banner and the Halloween banner and Less than Heroic banner).

16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

F/GO's free summon per day is from a summoning pool of 1- to 3-star "things" (all kinds of things, really) where 3-star "things" are rare. (Granted, there are a few useful 1-star and 2-star pulls in the mix.)

That would be the equivalent of a summoning pool in Heroes consisting of 1- to 3-star versions of the Hero Battle characters with a 50% chance of 1-star, 40% chance of 2-star, and 10% chance of 3-star.

I'm saying a Free Summon per day (as opposed to a Free Summon per banner) would be good because it'd incentive players to spend on them, slightly reduce orb spending and increase chances of getting desired pulls. Since FEH uses a system where consecutive colors = -1 orb spent, it's possible that some people decide to spend their orbs when they see that opportunity.

Edited by Rapier
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