Does IS care too much about new players and neglect long-time fans?

[Cute Chao]

I don't mind GHB reruns or mini Tempest reruns since it feels people who have already played them get something out of those. 

Even the warriors reruns are fine, since people were disappointed to see them go since they're a good training source. 

However, the BHB reruns are just lazy. They replace a new GHB or a GHB rerun and give a handful of orbs for squat. I groan whenever I see them. They're the most annoying thing. I don't even like BHBs to begin with, since they're not really the most exciting and again they're taken the place of a guaranteed new unit, but at least the fresh ones give a fair amount of orbs. 

I don't think it's a new players vs old players thing, though. It just makes me think they're being lazy, honestly. 

[Ice Dragon]

13 minutes ago, GinRei said:

I was talking more about the "actual" reruns, like the BHB.  Older players definitely don't get nothing from the Warriors maps, considering how good it is for SP farming.

Here's a reminder that Grand Hero Battle and Tempest Trials units are still physically impossible to use at the top of the Arena.

 

13 minutes ago, GinRei said:

If only it didn't come out right at the same time as Ereshkigal's event in FGO.

Ereshkigal doesn't require any time investment. Farming the Christmas event doesn't help you do anything involving her unless you need ascension items or experience cards or something of that sort.

 

2 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I don't even like BHBs to begin with, since they're not really the most exciting and again they're taken the place of a guaranteed new unit,

They can't take the place of a character that isn't scheduled to exist.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[Zeo]

If long time fans weren't cared about we wouldn't get things like a Sacred Stones banner or a Geneology banner. They're going to promote the newest and most popular FE games of today because that's what's making them money. The Warriors maps are just as much for the older players because they were SP farming gold.

If anything I wish a little more catering was done for newer players in some areas. TT Minis are strictly for players that missed the seals previously. IE. Newer ones and I wish we could get more of those because a one week Tempest with the same rewards is heaven. Even without new seals.

I'd like more characters that aren't Awakening/Fates, but we're not forgotten, just have to wait a bit longer.

 

[Cute Chao]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

They can't take the place of a character that isn't scheduled to exist.

No, but it doesn't mean it doesn't feel like they don't. I mean, they could be adding new characters, but instead they're doing these BHBs and the reruns. I think the fact there were so many at the beginning and now we don't even get one a month just makes me sick of the BHBs, if I'm honest, so it does feel like they take the place of content I actually care about. Maybe I'm being selfish. Maybe there's a lot of people who are over the moon at these new maps. I just get bored of them since the only reason I like GHBs are for the new characters. 

On the other hand, they are also withholding Camus and Xander reruns, which is another reason I don't feel like they're overly caring for their newer fans, since these would have been rerun long ago if so... in my opinion at least. New infernal map for the older fans, new units for the newer. Would be nice to see them again. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Huh, to answer the OP, since the title for this topic seems to have given some people the wrong idea, I also thought the Warriors maps being re-run ought to have come with quests.  Because it's as you say: if they're worried about handing out too many orbs, hand out some of the other, new resources. Namely those Refinery crystals. Sounds like we can expect these Warriors Maps to return every time Warriors gets some new DLC, so I hope they'll come with quests the next time.

But I don't think they're catering too much to new players. Those of us that have been playing since the beginning of the game still get quite the challenge out of these Infernal difficulties, and through Tempest Trials. If I was a new player, I'd feel overwhelmed. Trying to beat Infernal using my limited amount of 5 stars. Also there's so much story mode to get through for orbs to get more characters, but I've got very few stamina pots so I have to pick and choose what to work on. People are putting up helpful videos of F2P clears, but I may not have those units since they came from a TT or a GHB. And when I do have them, getting a character to level 40 is still time consuming in its own right. I also probably haven't noticed how big of a deal SP is once I wrap my head around skill inheritance so that's more grinding.

If anything this game ought to have more quests to help out new players. Like the shards and crystals quests that have lasted for a year. More of those year long quests so anybody coming in at any time can grab those resources.

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

On the other hand, they are also withholding Camus and Xander reruns, which is another reason I don't feel like they're overly caring for their newer fans, since these would have been rerun long ago if so... in my opinion at least. New infernal map for the older fans, new units for the newer. Would be nice to see them again.

It's pretty obvious they've been doing the old Grand Hero Battles in the order they were released.

Lloyd was the only oddball, but they probably wanted to test things out with him first for whatever reason.

[Prince Endriu]

13 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

No, but it doesn't mean it doesn't feel like they don't. I mean, they could be adding new characters, but instead they're doing these BHBs and the reruns. I think the fact there were so many at the beginning and now we don't even get one a month just makes me sick of the BHBs, if I'm honest, so it does feel like they take the place of content I actually care about. Maybe I'm being selfish. Maybe there's a lot of people who are over the moon at these new maps. I just get bored of them since the only reason I like GHBs are for the new characters. 

On the other hand, they are also withholding Camus and Xander reruns, which is another reason I don't feel like they're overly caring for their newer fans, since these would have been rerun long ago if so... in my opinion at least. New infernal map for the older fans, new units for the newer. Would be nice to see them again. 

Tough topic. Xander and camus will eventually reappear but it seems to take ages. Bhb battles, as long as their new and filled with orbs are actually not that bad imo

Damn, I never thought a mobile game could get me that much involved ☺. Been thinking lately that I spend more time time with this game than any other game. 

[Prince Endriu]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's pretty obvious they've been doing the old Grand Hero Battles in the order they were released.

Lloyd was the only oddball, but they probably wanted to test things out with him first for whatever reason.

What do you mean order they were released? Berkut came after xander...

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Prince Endriu said:

What do you mean order they were released? Berkut came after xander...

Oh. My bad. "The old Grand Hero Battles" referred specifically to the ones before Infernal difficulty was a thing. Sorry if I wasn't clear (because I really wasn't).

Edited December 14, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[TadpoleSuperHero]

1 hour ago, Prince Endriu said:

Or make a bound grand hero battle? 

 

That would be crazy cool! Especially if they're insanely hard but you also get rewarded with BOTH of the bound heroes. That would be way neat.

[TheWill]

Honestly, I'd prefer if Bound Hero Battles (and by extension, Grand Hero Battles) were just permanent maps. Something akin to 'challenge' maps, released each month or so. It'd, at the very least, stop people from being upset about Bound Hero Battle repeats, whilst also being another new source income and challenge for newer players. I understand that they're not made available due to benefiting long-time players, however as someone who has done every BHB and GHB (and completed every difficulty), I feel new players should have the opportunity to do them because the maps are genuinely fun and challenging for newer players. 

[Alkaid]

I think the GHB and especially BHB reruns hogging the content rotation lately is the main issue for older player frustration. Like has been said, they're pretty pointless for older players, and mainly for newer ones who missed out on when they first dropped. I don't have any problem with rerunning stuff so new people can get the stuff they missed, but at the same time they've been cutting back on actual new content alongside it. I mean the last new GHB was Arvis, and in the meantime we get yet another Michalis rerun, some BHB reruns, Berkut, etc.  If new GHBs hadn't slowed to such a crawl compared to the old 1-2 per month we used to have, I don't think there would be a problem with all these reruns.

Yes, we just got a new BHB today, but they're already like a poor man's GHB to begin with. Not getting a new special unit makes them pretty lame in comparison.

Warriors maps coming back are cool since the exp/sp grind with them is still their main draw, even if old players can't get the first clear maps again. So I don't mind we can't double up on the rewards.

 

[Cute Chao]

44 minutes ago, Prince Endriu said:

Tough topic. Xander and camus will eventually reappear but it seems to take ages. Bhb battles, as long as their new and filled with orbs are actually not that bad imo

Damn, I never thought a mobile game could get me that much involved ☺. Been thinking lately that I spend more time time with this game than any other game. 

I don't mind the BHBs as much when they are new, but they've already rerun two of them twice. If they're going to do that, they really should reset the orbs, imo... otherwise it's the most pointless rerun of them all. At least the rest have a reason. These add almost nothing for people who have already completed them. 

And yeah, I get you there. I've spent so much time on this game. I think it's why I don't mind spending money as well, though. It's given me a lot of fun, even if I do love to complain about it a lot xD I do also like to big it up. Everyone who knows me has been shown the game, I think xD 

@Ice Dragon

I will admit, due to the Lloyd rerun and the Berkut rerun, I hadn't even seen the pattern. Hopefully Camus and Xander are soon then (Xander in a couple more runs woooo). I have a friend who's just joined the game and they're jealous of my two ^.^''

Edited December 14, 2017 by Cute Chao

[Sunwoo]

I don't think IS cares too much about new players and are neglecting long-time fans. I think IS has become greedy.

[shadowofchaos]

5 hours ago, Prince Endriu said:

Not saying the warriors maps are bad or anything - its just the game has too many content droughts.  they release amelia and tana battle - I completed all three using up 100 stamina. I guess thats it then for now.

Did you forget what Ice Dragon keeps saying to you?

"Heroes is a game to play in between other things".

For someone like me who does have a full time job and (basically at this point) a wife, Heroes content is at a perfect amount. Any more and I would not be able to keep up.

[Rafiel's Aria]

I think Heroes has been pretty kind to us veteran players. While it would be nice to re-earn orb rewards, it makes sense why they don't. I'm beyond super happy to see the Warriors maps because they make grinding so much easier. No quests is a BIT of a bummer, but I'll be fine without them. I can save so much time and stamina. I don't feel left out at this point in the game because I need resources to make my current characters stronger. While I want resources to pull/promote more, I'm fine with the current pace.

[Humanoid]

4 hours ago, SlipperySlippy said:

Honestly, I'd prefer if Bound Hero Battles (and by extension, Grand Hero Battles) were just permanent maps. Something akin to 'challenge' maps, released each month or so. It'd, at the very least, stop people from being upset about Bound Hero Battle repeats, whilst also being another new source income and challenge for newer players. I understand that they're not made available due to benefiting long-time players, however as someone who has done every BHB and GHB (and completed every difficulty), I feel new players should have the opportunity to do them because the maps are genuinely fun and challenging for newer players. 

This, I think, is the elephant in the room. There's no good reason to have GHBs and BHBs as limited time content, it'd be easy enough to shove them in a submenu under special maps and have them available permanently. For extra copies they'd still be able to run limited time quests for them without restricting their actual availability.

You can't even level the usual accusation at IS that they're doing this out of greed since there's no apparent financial incentive for them to do it this way (it might only if they re-run the banners, which they don't).

Edited December 15, 2017 by Humanoid

[Cornguy]

Personally I think the game is fair to old players. I have no real complaints. 

The only thing about rerunning the Warriors maps that I find iffy, is that there are no quests attached to them. I don't think BHB usually have quests, but I could be wrong. But quests are typically what makes it worthwhile to return to old GHBs, so it was kind of a bummer that the Warriors maps don't have quests. 

[Clogon]

7 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Lyn and Caeda got a seasonal alt, so why can't other older characters who are just as popular? That's all I ask, really.

The answers to X can't be implemented in Y game are always time, labour and $. CYL took about 4 months to release. So you can expect new seasonal units to take the same amount of time to make from the initial decision to make them. 3DS chars already have seasonal art, story and content. Recycling them is quick and easy.

We will eventually get seasonal chars from older FE games. They will just take a LONG time.

[shadowofchaos]

5 minutes ago, Clogon said:

The answers to X can't be implemented in Y game are always time, labour and $. CYL took about 4 months to release. So you can expect new seasonal units to take the same amount of time to make from the initial decision to make them. 3DS chars already have seasonal art, story and content. Recycling them is quick and easy.

We will eventually get seasonal chars from older FE games. They will just take a LONG time.

Honestly, as a veteran of JP only gacha games, I can say...

Heroes is one of the fastest games to churn out alternate costumes.

Even Granblue takes a while for it.

Edited December 15, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Lord_Grima]

Overall I think IS has been pretty fair between the old and new fanbases/games. If you look at how many characters are from each game:

Heroes-					4
Thracia 776-				2
Sacred Stones-				9
Blazing Blade-				20
Binding Blade-				15
Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light-	1
Radiant Dawn-				1
Path of Radiance-			10
New Mystery of the Emblem-		29
Genealogy of the Holy War-		10
Echoes: Shadows of Valentia-		17

Fates-					45
Awakening-				32

In terms of base numbers, Fates and Awakening have the highest numbers of playable characters. But if you want to compare Old games vs New games:

Old games(non-3ds + Echoes)-	118

New games(3ds)-			77

I included Echoes:SoV in old games, because it is Gaiden (Old style).  If you compare that way, then the older games does outnumber the new games by a pretty good margin. The only part I see "unfair" is the ratio of seasonal units: old vs new (2:22), but there are many reasons for this that other people have discussed.

IS definitely knows who the more popular characters/ games are. If you look at the 8 CYL units added, all but Lucina are from older games.

From a marketing stand-point, adding a ton of recognizable characters that newer 3ds players know from Awakening and Fates will get people to download and play, then they can introduce more characters form older games to get those players interested in the older games. Now IS needs to release some of the older games again.

[Sunwoo]

Like, I mean

According to your own list, the "old games" encompass 10 unique games while the "new games" encompass only 2.

I'd certainly hope that the total number of characters throughout ten games is more than the total number of characters from two games.

[Clogon]

1 hour ago, shadowofchaos said:

Honestly, as a veteran of JP only gacha games, I can say...

Heroes is one of the fastest games to churn out alternate costumes.

Even Granblue takes a while for it.

Again, recycling content greatly speeds up the process. Looking at Brave Lucina, Awakening and Fates seasonal art and concepts were already created a long time ago. Only touch up and refining are needed. But for older FE chars with no DLC extra content? Everything needs to be created from scrach.

[Prince Endriu]

8 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

Did you forget what Ice Dragon keeps saying to you?

"Heroes is a game to play in between other things".

For someone like me who does have a full time job and (basically at this point) a wife, Heroes content is at a perfect amount. Any more and I would not be able to keep up.

Didnt forget - I never mentioned heroes should be a full time experience. Playing in between doesnt mean it cant have more meaningful content. As players of this game we are also customers who can voice their opinion and ask for better things, there is nothing wrong with that, it can only help make the game better.

[Ice Dragon]

24 minutes ago, Prince Endriu said:

As players of this game we are also customers who can voice their opinion and ask for better things, there is nothing wrong with that, it can only help make the game better.

While voicing your opinion is fine, it helps to suggest things that are actually feasible from a development or a marketing standpoint. Otherwise, you're just stuck in the limbo of wishful thinking where none of your opinions matter because they cannot ever actually be acted upon.

While more difficult daily missions would be nice for veteran players, they can be seen as unwelcoming for newer players who have nice rewards dangled in front of their faces with no real way to acquire them for a long time.

Mobile games are tricky due to the fact that events happen in real-time and you need to account for players who started playing both from the start and from days or weeks ago. Putting too much focus on newer players leaves your veteran players getting bored, but putting too much focus on veteran players leaves too much out of reach of newer or casual players who will feel locked out of shiny, new content and rewards.