We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Makaze]

If someone can explain it in a way that makes sense, I'll bite, but now that I'm reading it I do not see any reason for a) Shinori to back down like that or b) Walrein to conspicuously put Shinori in their town reads without ever mentioning him before (its the only read that comes out of nowhere)

Edited April 23, 2018 by Makaze
pronouns

[EvanManManMan]

It's a matter of your thought processes lined up exactly and I don't feel that it is purely coincidental. You hop onto Walrein does feel ingenuine in that sense. It only happened after I shed doubt on your Walrein read anyways. It feels like your early read was a poclet attempt or just you being completely oblivious, and I'm more inclined to believe the former.

Can you quote or link me to the posts you want me to look at?

[Alette]

1 hour ago, EvanManManMan said:

Wait Walrein claiked his action failed night 1. Didn't a scum compulsive roleblocker flip? That would clear Walrein if he truly was roleblocked

Also Walrein, you are motivating myself or Alette tonight to get extra kill power. Motivating anybody else won't benefit as most of the PRs left have no beneficial action from an extra charge.

I could day kill only once. This would be useless on me.

[Makaze]

Just now, EvanManManMan said:

It's a matter of your thought processes lined up exactly and I don't feel that it is purely coincidental. You hop onto Walrein does feel ingenuine in that sense. It only happened after I shed doubt on your Walrein read anyways. It feels like your early read was a poclet attempt or just you being completely oblivious, and I'm more inclined to believe the former.

Can you quote or link me to the posts you want me to look at?

... i did quote AND link to them, see my posts just above. are the links not showing for you?

[EvanManManMan]

1 minute ago, Alette said:

I could day kill only once. This would be useless on me.

Then I guess I would be the only valid motivator option unless he wants to make a 3 person neighbourhood?

[EvanManManMan]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

... i did quote AND link to them, see my posts just above. are the links not showing for you?

The formatting of links you used is different. I'd prefer raw links as well. Easier to work with.

[Makaze]

1 minute ago, EvanManManMan said:

It's a matter of your thought processes lined up exactly and I don't feel that it is purely coincidental. You hop onto Walrein does feel ingenuine in that sense. It only happened after I shed doubt on your Walrein read anyways. It feels like your early read was a poclet attempt or just you being completely oblivious, and I'm more inclined to believe the former.

Can you quote or link me to the posts you want me to look at?

I can see this argument. I can't really explain it, but I don't think I would try to pocket him if this was me being Mafia, because I would have every reason to actually read him and expand my PoE for later days. In addition, I have gone to greater lengths to townclear multiple players, so I don't see why I would be different with Walrein here. This makes more sense as a w/w association than anything else, if I'm lying.

[Makaze]

3 minutes ago, EvanManManMan said:

Then I guess I would be the only valid motivator option unless he wants to make a 3 person neighbourhood?

Nope. We have a watcher.

Ask if you can make 2 bets when motivated though. And if you win, do you get two vigs? Because if so that is the best option.

[Makaze]

@EvanManManMan it automatically converts them, let me see if I can get it

Walrein's side

Shinori's side

[Athena_57]

1 hour ago, EvanManManMan said:

Wait Walrein claiked his action failed night 1. Didn't a scum compulsive roleblocker flip? That would clear Walrein if he truly was roleblocked

 

4 hours ago, Snike said:

I think walrein's claim is believable except I don't know how kaoz died in that scenario. If mack had been motivated I have absolutely no doubt one of those martyrs would have been on kaoz in addition to a wifom target.

These two are both good points and sadly point in different directions. I don't agree with Evan it completely clears him, as if scum blocked someone who's now dead he can safely fakeclaim being roleblocked, but I do agree it makes it a lot more likely for him to be town.

Snoyke raises a good question as well, the only answer I can think if is the ballsy play of hoping scum avoids Kaoz because Mack outed he would be on him.

I am not convinced in this vote anymore, especially considering people I read as locktown (Fable, Refa) have left the wagon and only Makaze and Omega remain.

##Unvote

Makaze's stuff on Shinori/Walrein interactions isn't wrong, but I am increasingly worried about how certain he is of his reads. I don't expect full blown paranoia, but if points like the above quote from Evan have been made, how can you remain so convinced based on the in my eyes bad but not damning interactions with Shinori?

[Makaze]

I still don't think the motivator can be real, because I think that Mack would have been on Kaoz.

Unless Mack was on Kaoz n2, and cannot target the same person twice.

[Makaze]

Wait no, we know he wasn't on Kaoz n2 because Snike redirected him

Yeah Snike's argument re: the motivation claim is accurate

[Makaze]

2 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

 

These two are both good points and sadly point in different directions. I don't agree with Evan it completely clears him, as if scum blocked someone who's now dead he can safely fakeclaim being roleblocked, but I do agree it makes it a lot more likely for him to be town.

Snoyke raises a good question as well, the only answer I can think if is the ballsy play of hoping scum avoids Kaoz because Mack outed he would be on him.

I am not convinced in this vote anymore, especially considering people I read as locktown (Fable, Refa) have left the wagon and only Makaze and Omega remain.

##Unvote

Makaze's stuff on Shinori/Walrein interactions isn't wrong, but I am increasingly worried about how certain he is of his reads. I don't expect full blown paranoia, but if points like the above quote from Evan have been made, how can you remain so convinced based on the in my eyes bad but not damning interactions with Shinori?

With regard to this and at @EvanManManMan too: I was waiting for you guys to catch up and realize it yourself, but we know why Walrein's action failed: Fable claimed that it makes sense with his role. Then he explained it with his full claim: He is a role bomb. If he gets NK'd, the player who killed him loses all their abilities.

Also, Walrein did not offer this speculation himself, which says to me he knows it didn't happen. If he had been roleblocked or thought he was he probably would have said it immediately upon realizing it's what happened, regardless of what his claim is.

 

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

##Vote: Makaze

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

I'm down with getting lynched/shot if you guys promise to kill Makaze afterwards.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

6 hours ago, Beru said:

##vote omega

do something besides post "town is bad lol" pls. if you can find someone else to lynch that isn't you with an actual well reasoned argument besides "makaze is pushing me therefore he's a wolf" i won't lynch you :D

Have you been reading my posts? I've explained why he needs to die and it's not just OMGUS.

Do you think as ITP, my strategy is to thunderdome him since D2? Is that an approach you think fits in with playing for survival?

[Makaze]

4 minutes ago, Omega. said:

Have you been reading my posts? I've explained why he needs to die and it's not just OMGUS.

Do you think as ITP, my strategy is to thunderdome him since D2? Is that an approach you think fits in with playing for survival?

it is if your strategy is "play so contrary to a good itp OR town that I get townread"

nice pop in

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

@Beru If you really want me to pull up the posts where I explained why he's wolfy, tell me. That said, you seem to have been keeping up with recent events so I don't get why you're coming at me like I'm just OMGUSing him.

Also know that if you're a villager here, he tried to case your slot D3 despite no one thinking Sully was a possible wolf.

Snike brought up a point earlier about the D1 votecount likely holding another wolf/3p. So that's another decent place to take a look. I just woke up and have a busy day but I think we should lynch Makaze. If you guys want to lynch me, that's cool too, just lynch him afterwards when you realize he's had damn near a 100% wrongness rate to the point that it's wolfy and shouldn't be given a pass because "His thought processes are so natural" or whatever such nonsense is being used to call this scumlord V. Also, keep in mind that Makaze volunteered to be lynched if Sully/Beru is V. I don't want to lynch Beru, but I'm more than happy than to think that Beru is village and take Makaze up on his offer.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

it is if your strategy is "play so contrary to a good itp OR town that I get townread"

nice pop in

##Vote: Makaze

[Makaze]

I am going to point that being patently wrong and pushing actual EoD wagons on exactly three player so far is not that bad, and I've come around on almost all of them. Just because I am the most vocal and I'm not afraid to push my lynches doesn't mean I have any more chance to be right than the next town (although I always think I am at the time, the statistics don't support it.)

You on the other hand are willing to lynch anyone in your PoE, prefer me, and most of your PoE has changed with... Town consensus, which has been on me.

I don't see a world where Omega lynches Walrein if he thinks he is town and I am Mafia. There's self-preservation and there's trying to win the game, and it seems obvious that all Omega is doing is trying to survive. No one is going to push him like I have, save Baldrick, who will be dying if I get lynched today (town doublevoter who agrees with me is bad for him AND mafia).

This simply doesn't hold up.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Beyond that, I guess some thinking needs to be put towards the claims. It seems like every time we wagon someone, they come in and claim, then everyone starts doubting themselves and we just kind of go in circles. I'm not downing everyone; I'm just throwing out a talking point. I guess someone has done something villagery with their claim even if they're a wolf.

@Snike

Why did you shut down today?

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

3 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I am going to point that being patently wrong and pushing actual EoD wagons on exactly three player so far is not that bad, and I've come around on almost all of them. Just because I am the most vocal and I'm not afraid to push my lynches doesn't mean I have any more chance to be right than the next town (although I always think I am at the time, the statistics don't support it.)

You on the other hand are willing to lynch anyone in your PoE, prefer me, and most of your PoE has changed with... Town consensus, which has been on me.

I don't see a world where Omega lynches Walrein if he thinks he is town and I am Mafia. There's self-preservation and there's trying to win the game, and it seems obvious that all Omega is doing is trying to survive. No one is going to push him like I have, save Baldrick, who will be dying if I get lynched today (town doublevoter who agrees with me is bad for him AND mafia).

This simply doesn't hold up.

The main thing in your favor is that so many people have called you V that it had me considering it was TMI on the part of the wolves/ITP. I can't say that's enough for me to want you to stay, though.

[Makaze]

7 minutes ago, Omega. said:

@Beru If you really want me to pull up the posts where I explained why he's wolfy, tell me. That said, you seem to have been keeping up with recent events so I don't get why you're coming at me like I'm just OMGUSing him.

Also know that if you're a villager here, he tried to case your slot D3 despite no one thinking Sully was a possible wolf.

Snike brought up a point earlier about the D1 votecount likely holding another wolf/3p. So that's another decent place to take a look. I just woke up and have a busy day but I think we should lynch Makaze. If you guys want to lynch me, that's cool too, just lynch him afterwards when you realize he's had damn near a 100% wrongness rate to the point that it's wolfy and shouldn't be given a pass because "His thought processes are so natural" or whatever such nonsense is being used to call this scumlord V. Also, keep in mind that Makaze volunteered to be lynched if Sully/Beru is V. I don't want to lynch Beru, but I'm more than happy than to think that Beru is village and take Makaze up on his offer.

This is true, and I am willing to stick up to that if need be, but I think my progression on Sully is genuine and only the person I am hard casing as the ITP actually thinks that I have scum motivation.

I promise you this: If I am alive after all of Omega/Snilke/Walrein are dead and we have not won the game, I will bow out, stop leading the game, and allow whoever wants to to case me without defending. Because whoever the Mafia is at that point is so deep that I have failed completely, and they will want to case me for the same reasons as Omega, and I won't be able to defend them.

(I will post enough to not get MK'd.)

[Makaze]

I am fine with both Snike and Walrein and I think they are probably buddies, with or without Snike's opportunistic outing today.

[Makaze]

I also don't believe both of them would out for out of game reasons at the same time for this long. It's strategic.