Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER

[Makaze]

2 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

The early wagon on me was Rapier/Fenrir/Junk.

Do you think it's reasonable to look for scum there?

Do you think that townreads on Rapier/Junk combined with Fenrir basing their case on a (in my eyes flawed) pocket theory and bad questions which he shows by quoting an RVS joke of mine as example makes him the most likely scum of the bunch?

I think it's reasonable for you to look for scum there, I just happen to think it's all towns on that wagon. lol

I don't believe Fenrir is independently scummy, including for reading too much into your joke, so your conclusion is flawed since you are assuming there is a scum when there might not be.

[Iris]

Votals:

SatsumaFSoysoy (5): RADicate, Junk, Mackc2, athena_57, Makaze
Makaze (3): Rapier, Zeonth, Fable
athena_57 (2): Fenrir Aesir, SatsumaFSoysoy
Fable (1): Bartozio
Bartozio (1): XnadrojX
Rapier (1): EvanManManMan

Phase ends in 3 hours and 15 minutes.

[Athena_57]

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I think it's reasonable for you to look for scum there, I just happen to think it's all towns on that wagon. lol

I don't believe Fenrir is independently scummy, including for reading too much into your joke, so your conclusion is flawed since you are assuming there is a scum when there might not be.

Okay, I can agree with that. Maybe I'm just mad he (perhaps unintentionally) misrepped me by quoting the jokepost.

[Athena_57]

POE

Too townie to be lynched: Junk, RAD, Rapier, Nadroj, Zeo

Lesser extent Makaze

Need to be given more time: Evan, Fable, Mackc

 

This for me leaves Fenrir, Bartozio and Satsuma. Of the bunch I think I prefer the Satsuma lynch.

[Athena_57]

@SatsumaFSoysoy Could you place a vote, if only for self-preservation?

[Rapier]

18 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

I think Evan is a pretty poor lynch as well actually

I agree. We won't get any tells and his actions were NAI imo.

---

I'm willing to lynch Athena, but there are other players who I need to ISO now. I'm not liking some of Mack's previous stuff, nor am I liking Bart's easy vote on Fable, for example.

But what got me inclined further to lynch Athena is his focus on the wagon against him. He seems to be a in witch hunt for who is the supposed scum voting him, trying to find a suitable target for voting back in retalliation. Some of his posts contribute to my theory, namely:

17 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

The early wagon on me was Rapier/Fenrir/Junk.

Do you think it's reasonable to look for scum there?

Do you think that townreads on Rapier/Junk combined with Fenrir basing their case on a (in my eyes flawed) pocket theory and bad questions which he shows by quoting an RVS joke of mine as example makes him the most likely scum of the bunch?

"I'm trying to sort out the people who've voted me. I think Rapier's vote on me was good, his point was correct (there was no change of opinion on my end) and I think his vote came from a good place in that it was meant to evoke reactions. Fenrir's is more iffy, especially because I dislike him using my RVS as evidence, and also ignoring my vote when giving his pocket theory.

This leaves Junk. I originally wanted to take a look at the most sheepish vote on me, but I think I sort of liked their stuff so far. If you could explain why he's town to you, that'd be great.

On this note, I'll be rereading Junk, but for now, this was the most iffy vote on me and I'd be surprised if zero scummembers joined in on this. "

Looking for scum on your wagon makes sense if you previously thought one of the players in your wagon was scummy. However, Athena instantly assumes that a 3 or 4 player wagon on him necessarily has a wolf, when in a game with 10 people it is not unlikely that a 3 player wagon is fully town. Note that he insisted with this from early-mid game to 17 minutes ago, with 3 hours until D1's end. It feels like a very forced way to witch hunt players in your wagon out of a sense of self-preservation and/or paranoia. In another post, he comments that he thinks there is scum on his wagon, but then he reads the players voting him as mostly non-scummy and says the least non-scummy one is Fenrir, so he votes him. Which is scum logic, in my opinion.

I'm content with an Athena lynch.

##Vote: @athena_57

(I have been voting him all this time, but Iris asked me to re-vote in the new format)

 

[Rapier]

bbcodes ruined my life

His quote ends and my text begins at this:

Looking for scum on your wagon makes sense if you previously thought one of the players in your wagon was scummy. However, Athena instantly assumes that a 3 or 4 player wagon on him necessarily has a wolf, when in a game with 10 people it is not unlikely that a 3 player wagon is fully town. Note that he insisted with this from early-mid game to 17 minutes ago, with 3 hours until D1's end. It feels like a very forced way to witch hunt players in your wagon out of a sense of self-preservation and/or paranoia. In another post, he comments that he thinks there is scum on his wagon, but then he reads the players voting him as mostly non-scummy and says the least non-scummy one is Fenrir, so he votes him. Which is scum logic, in my opinion.

I'm content with an Athena lynch.

##Vote: @athena_57

(I have been voting him all this time, but Iris asked me to re-vote in the new format)

[Fable]

45 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Okay, finished the ISO on town!satsuma from IDNSFMM5. 

They started out similarly and were quite stubborn for a long time on not having solid reads or voting. Angered/annoyed tone in response to people questioning this is similar.

There are a few differences

- They entered a 1v1 with someone who accused them (hey, it's scum!me). This in contrast with here where he's more nonchalant about the wagon on him, though I should mention he never backed that up with a vote either and kept it at a slight scumread. I did see more interaction there however.

- Late day 1 he actually had reads and shit, though this was after his flaked hydra-partner was replaced (so ignore this point)

- There was no real shading, as opposed to the stuff he's done this game

 

Bad lynch. Behaviour is pretty NAI and lynch grants no info besides confirming/denying your gut feeling. There's nothing in particular I want to ask them, I'd mostly be interested to see whether/how he picks up steam in later days.

Do you think it makes sense FMPOV (knowing I'm town) to look at my early day wagon for scum and conclude Fenrir is the most likely to flip scum?

Who has satsuma shaded? His posts have been pretty inoffensive from what I can tell. 

[Athena_57]

12 minutes ago, Rapier said:

bbcodes ruined my life

His quote ends and my text begins at this:

Looking for scum on your wagon makes sense if you previously thought one of the players in your wagon was scummy. However, Athena instantly assumes that a 3 or 4 player wagon on him necessarily has a wolf, when in a game with 10 people it is not unlikely that a 3 player wagon is fully town. Note that he insisted with this from early-mid game to 17 minutes ago, with 3 hours until D1's end. It feels like a very forced way to witch hunt players in your wagon out of a sense of self-preservation and/or paranoia. In another post, he comments that he thinks there is scum on his wagon, but then he reads the players voting him as mostly non-scummy and says the least non-scummy one is Fenrir, so he votes him. Which is scum logic, in my opinion.

I'm content with an Athena lynch.

##Vote: @athena_57

(I have been voting him all this time, but Iris asked me to re-vote in the new format)

I never said it was a necessity at all, just that it was quite likely. Fenrir isn't a scumread merely for being the least townie of those on me, he's scummy for basing his case on an RVS joke taken out of context.

I'm actually quite surprised by your stance on me, considering I've been your biggest scumread this entire game apparently, why have you not interacted with me besides asking about my nadroj read and pressure votes 3 times with the same answer each time? I'd say there's more than enough stuff of me out there for you to base a case on or question me.

Why is there scum intent in analyzing people voting me? And if there is scum intent there, why are you only commenting on this now?

7 minutes ago, Fable said:

Who has satsuma shaded? His posts have been pretty inoffensive from what I can tell. 

Comment about nadroj giving good info without going into detail/his alignment, "meta"-shade on me, saying good points were raised on me, both without going into detail or taking a firm stance.

[Bartozio]

Wooh, reads time. I haven't reread or fully read as much I would've liked, but I'm going to sleep, so here's what I'm currently at, mostly from towny to scummy:

I feel Makaze is likely town. His sticking to a "soul read" might be annoying, but his later reasoning for it wasn't bad (as in, I can believe someone being convinced for these reasons), and I feel his posts are very much made in an attempt to solve the game. Would not lynch.

Rapier (YESSS, he's not really flaking yet) made some pretty sharp comments, and I like his reasoning overall. Likely town.

Athena: I liked Athenas start of trying to get things going, and his content till now has looked fine or good to me. I also feel scum Athena struggles more with producing meaningfull content and will generally stick too easy content, where town Athena feels a lot more natural. His current play clearly fits in the second category, imo.

Fenrir, Junk and Rad feel fine to me, but I really need to reread their content. Homework for N1 I guess.

Mackc2: I feel his later posts were a bit above average in terms of scumhunting and interacting with the thread for him, so I'm not really scumreading this slot. His general playstyle and
me not knowing his scum meta (roll scum already dude) make it more of null/slight town lean though.

Zeonth catch up post wasn't bad, but I need to hear opinions about the second (and more intresting) half of the game before forming a real opinion on him. Or read it if it is actually already posted...

Xnad: Taking a step back, I'm more willing to believe he really just doesn't give any value to rvs (not an actual quote, but an interpretation), and as much as I disagree with his case on me,
I do think there's actual thought put into it. He also doesn't use his case on me as a reason to ignore other stuff, which I like. Basicly, a lot less sure about him being scum. Urgh, leaning
more towards null/slightly town right now, but that might swing over to any side in the next span of a day. (Did I mention I suck when I start to secondguess stuff).

Satsuma: His content is low, but it's not a lot different from IDNSFMM, which makes me mostly null on him. I feel like he was slightly more cooperative then though, even though there was
less content from my memory, so small scum lean here.

Evan's posts were bad, but about the same as last game I feel. He could be coasting since people seem to not want to lynch based purely on his lack of content, but that's mostly NAI right
now.

I feel Fable's first real content post was scummy, because the case on Makaze was something he seems to have had in his mind for most of the game, and Evan hadn't posted in at least a day. He could have made that post a full day earlier without changing anything. This feels less like having trouble to get reads, and more like just not wanting to post for half a day. It would literaly not suprise me if he had that whole post written out a day in advance.

@Fable, I think you can respond to a case without me asking questions, but sure:

Why did you post those cases against Makaze and Evan at the time you did? Why not a full day earlier?

I'd prefer a Fable lynch at this point, but since that doesn't seem likely to happen, I'm a lot more in favor of Satsuma then any of the alternatives:

##Unvote

##Vote: @SatsumaFSoysoy

[Fable]

Because I wanted to give the thread time to develop. I don't jump at a thing, I let a thing happen then wait for context and analyze from there but Mak just kept pushing the same bullshit and Evan still has not reappeared. 

Also while Mak is saying he knows my meta without having been in the beginning of IDNSFMM you were there d1 so you pretending this is some new thing for me is also questionable. 

[EvanManManMan]

Hi I'm here now

[EvanManManMan]

Wait somebody cased me?

I had like 0 analyzable content wtf

[Fable]

@athena_57

I don't buy what you're saying about satsuma. It was already noted that he shaded you last game as well and I went back and looked and if anything he was more aggressive that game with how he went after you (and I think he was a little more aggressive in general) so saying him shading you here is out of character is ??? to me. 

Also with how run away the satsuma wagon is with nobody wanting a counter I'm very much doubting satsuma is a wolf atp. 

[EvanManManMan]

On page 3 right now. I think that Athena is towny due to their early vote on Junk and the way they questioned Xandroj. I think the way that xandroj responded was scummy. Athena basically said "there is a lot of content go find stuff" and xandroj just basically said no and I don't like that for obvious reasons.

[Rapier]

5 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

I never said it was a necessity at all, just that it was quite likely. Fenrir isn't a scumread merely for being the least townie of those on me, he's scummy for basing his case on an RVS joke taken out of context.

He didn't base his case solely on the RVS joke taken out of context. Yes, that part is bad, but that's not all there is to it. He brought up a pocket theory that is debatable (I think I've already stated what I think of it).

5 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

I'm actually quite surprised by your stance on me, considering I've been your biggest scumread this entire game apparently, why have you not interacted with me besides asking about my nadroj read and pressure votes 3 times with the same answer each time? I'd say there's more than enough stuff of me out there for you to base a case on or question me.

I didn't point out the fact that you were focusing too much in your wagon because it is not, by itself, scummy when you believe other players have very bad cases or you or when you were already getting scum vibes from said players. However, you've been insisting on scum being on your wagon since the midgame, and you still do that even after you moved on to Satsuma. There are 3 players voting for you currently, the odds would be more in favor of the wagon being fully town than someone being there setting you up. Yet still you insist with that assumption that there is scum voting for you, like someone trying to witch hunt people without any concrete scumread on them to base your theory on (your best one is claiming Fenrir is scummy because of his read on your RVS joke, which I agree is bad but doesn't constitute a scumread alone imo).

Reading Satsuma's ISO now since he's a likely lynch candidate. I didn't really pay that much attention to him, even though I answered some of his posts and asked a few questions. brb

 

[Makaze]

49 minutes ago, Rapier said:

bbcodes ruined my life

His quote ends and my text begins at this:

Looking for scum on your wagon makes sense if you previously thought one of the players in your wagon was scummy. However, Athena instantly assumes that a 3 or 4 player wagon on him necessarily has a wolf, when in a game with 10 people it is not unlikely that a 3 player wagon is fully town. Note that he insisted with this from early-mid game to 17 minutes ago, with 3 hours until D1's end. It feels like a very forced way to witch hunt players in your wagon out of a sense of self-preservation and/or paranoia. In another post, he comments that he thinks there is scum on his wagon, but then he reads the players voting him as mostly non-scummy and says the least non-scummy one is Fenrir, so he votes him. Which is scum logic, in my opinion.

I'm content with an Athena lynch.

##Vote: @athena_57

(I have been voting him all this time, but Iris asked me to re-vote in the new format)

Why does this behavior look bad for Athena and not for Fable (FMPOV Fable is doing the same thing but with more self-pres).

[EvanManManMan]

I think that the way that Mack responded to Athena's vote on him was townyn since he basically said they were right but weren't scummy which I like.

[Bartozio]

1 minute ago, Fable said:

Because I wanted to give the thread time to develop. I don't jump at a thing, I let a thing happen then wait for context and analyze from there but Mak just kept pushing the same bullshit and Evan still has not reappeared. 

Also while Mak is saying he knows my meta without having been in the beginning of IDNSFMM you were there d1 so you pretending this is some new thing for me is also questionable. 

I already mentioned I didn't mind you not having cases at the start of the game though. You did pick up there though, and I remember you posting suspision on Zeus or an early townread on Bibbons without seemingly waiting endlessly for it.

6 minutes ago, EvanManManMan said:

Wait somebody cased me?

I had like 0 analyzable content wtf

People will find a way it seems.

1 minute ago, EvanManManMan said:

On page 3 right now. I think that Athena is towny due to their early vote on Junk and the way they questioned Xandroj. I think the way that xandroj responded was scummy. Athena basically said "there is a lot of content go find stuff" and xandroj just basically said no and I don't like that for obvious reasons.

THANK YOU!

[Makaze]

8 minutes ago, EvanManManMan said:

Wait somebody cased me?

I had like 0 analyzable content wtf

No one has cased you, I just said you were scum out of the gate and you haven't proved me wrong lol

[EvanManManMan]

I also like the way that Bartozio pointed out that Xandroj's responses were wolfy

[EvanManManMan]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

No one has cased you, I just said you were scum out of the gate and you haven't proved me wrong lol

Then why did you say Fable (I think) cased me. Or am I misreading.

And saying somebody is guilty until proven innocwnt is a mentality I like to use as mafia so I would get that out of your head if you are town

[Athena_57]

I'm leaving in 15 minutes, if anyone has something to say, do it now. @Rapier

3 minutes ago, Fable said:

@athena_57

I don't buy what you're saying about satsuma. It was already noted that he shaded you last game as well and I went back and looked and if anything he was more aggressive that game with how he went after you (and I think he was a little more aggressive in general) so saying him shading you here is out of character is ??? to me. 

Also with how run away the satsuma wagon is with nobody wanting a counter I'm very much doubting satsuma is a wolf atp. 

He didn't shade me last game, he engaged me, adressed me directly, asked me questions, accused me etc.

That's actually what I was thinking until you and Rapier popped in.

3 minutes ago, Rapier said:

He didn't base his case solely on the RVS joke taken out of context. Yes, that part is bad, but that's not all there is to it. He brought up a pocket theory that is debatable (I think I've already stated what I think of it).

I didn't point out the fact that you were focusing too much in your wagon because it is not, by itself, scummy when you believe other players have very bad cases or you or when you were already getting scum vibes from said players. However, you've been insisting on scum being on your wagon since the midgame, and you still do that even after you moved on to Satsuma. There are 3 players voting for you currently, the odds would be more in favor of the wagon being fully town than someone being there setting you up. Yet still you insist with that assumption that there is scum voting for you, like someone trying to witch hunt people without any concrete scumread on them to base your theory on (your best one is claiming Fenrir is scummy because of his read on your RVS joke, which I agree is bad but doesn't constitute a scumread alone imo).

Reading Satsuma's ISO now since he's a likely lynch candidate. I didn't really pay that much attention to him, even though I answered some of his posts and asked a few questions. brb

 

Bolded: Scroll up to the top of the page where I've already talked about this.

What changed during the last 5 hours that there was nothing to talk about then, but there is now all of a sudden?

And also, if I was your biggest scumread the entire day and this wasn't a problem 5 hours ago, what was your reason?

[Fable]

1 minute ago, Bartozio said:

I already mentioned I didn't mind you not having cases at the start of the game though. You did pick up there though, and I remember you posting suspision on Zeus or an early townread on Bibbons without seemingly waiting endlessly for it.

So your example your using for someone I was able to read quickly is my gf?

Also Zeus read didn't come until halfway through the day, if you remember I had both eury and ecplise pushing me because I was slow to get started that game as well.  

[EvanManManMan]

Rapier's case on Athena is hot garbage oh boy