Aether Raids General Thread

[Vicious Sal]

On 4/28/2020 at 4:53 PM, XRay said:

3 Mythics provides a lot of stats to super tanks that is not as dependent on positioning unlike regular buffers. 3 Mythics is not suitable for every team, which is why I mentioned 2 or 3.

Which is why I admitted 3 mythics is useful in a certain fringe case. But outside of 3 peony, you shouldn't field any teams with 3 mythics unless you have two at +10 and the third at at least +1. 

On 4/28/2020 at 4:53 PM, XRay said:

Lugging around a bonus unit is not worth the hassle if all the player wants is just resources. I still manage to be in Tier 24 without a bonus unit and I lost a match after using up all my Ladders (O). If the player wants to rank competitively though, then the bonus unit is crucial for getting Thrones. If Thrones are not the goal, there is no need to make Aether Raids more annoying than it is by lugging around a bonus unit.

With how many players dislike doing Aether Raids and many skipping it altogether, issues with motivation and burnout are bigger problems than not playing well. Once players are used to Aether Raids, they can experiment and decide for themselves whether incorporating a bonus unit is worth the extra effort.

 

You're pretending the bonus unit is a worthless unit, whereas the bonus unit only needs smite and a tactics seal or whatever. You need to be able to test traps, and thus you need smite. Galeforce? Need Smite to engage/test traps. CC Vantage? Smite for a link skill or testing traps. Tanking? Smite not the most necessary, though it can always be used to smite someone to the far away Aether pot. Not bringing a bonus unit means you need to have a smitebot elsewhere. This is fine, but Peony, Eir and Altina al fulful other roles better and thus it is not bad to have a bonus unit. The bonus unit is also always treated as +10 since they gain 10 Hp and +4 on every other stat. That makes tanking a stray hit possible, whereas the non bonus unit is actively hurting your lift and often won't even be as useful as a regular bonus unit plenty of times.

 

 

16 hours ago, Zeo said:

So... I was thinking about doing an actual defense team for dark season and I kinda want to do an armor core (stacking Wary Fighter + Ward Armor still a thing?) but I lack OP armor dragons so I'm kinda at a loss, is it possible for me to make one?

This is what I have for armors.

• Valentine Ike
• Halloween Hector
• Arden
• Black Knight
• Zelgius
• Winter Nino
• Halloween Ilyana
• Winter Robin
• Brave Hector
• Valentine Lyn
• Effie
• Picnic Lukas
• OG Hector
• Valentine Hector
• Brave Ephraim
• Halloween Henry
• Surtr
• Amelia
• Winter Jaffar
• Winter Lissa
• Picnic Felicia
• Halloween Dorcas
• Winter Eirika
• Halloween Jakob
• Winter Cecillia

Brammimond is my only dark mythic so he'd be off to the side giving everyone HP+5/ATK+3 but I was thinking stacking Ward Armor and maybe Wary Fighter for everyone except Winter Eirika and giving her her base kit with a couple of armors that share ATK so everyone can get +7 ATK/+5 DEF & RES. Then give her QP so she can proc Heavenly Light on the first turn and have a healing station right next to the team. Maybe Surtr in front with Brave Hector to his side and V!Ike to his other with like Halloween Ilyana behind the unit on the left and Eirika behind Surtr.

Just spitballing currently. I don't really know how to make defense teams. Never learned.

It shows you haven't paid thought to building a def team before. Most people when thinking about defense tend to start with the mindset of "If I am defending, barricading myself seems like a good start" It actually is the opposite. With your setup, you have given the attacking team room to move in 90% of your field. They have so much room to move that they can even attack your Hector, Ike and Surtr without fear of retaliation. The best defense maps try to claim as much territory as they can, making approaching very difficult. Defense maps tend to also have bigger attack ranges than they show initially. This can work by using Ground orders, Flier Formation, Rally traps, Restore etc. The point if not only to have a strong engage on turn one, but also to make a very large attack range on subsequent turns, severely limiting enemy movement. This is why cav lines are so strong, and why flier balls jump half a screen when they attack. 

This map offers none of that, capturing your units, giving the enemy free reign and all the time to tackle the map the way they want.

14 hours ago, Landmaster said:

Armor Balls aren't very good in AR, they're kinda free wins to be honest~ Only your Brammi is really gonna be posing a threat to anyone who fights you and once he's gone, all anyone has to do is just snipe down all your other units. In fact, every single unit is boxed in here so this is really just serving a free win on a platter

You need some big brained, high IQ Armor builds for these to work. Like It's Curtains+ Ignis Brave Hector with Grandscratcher Eirika or something like that. I'd much rather suggest you to use an IP team since those are usually the hardest to straight up tank.

Armour balls are in kind of a weird place right now. Anima season has Duma, so at least with 1 Duma and a max lvl catapult you won't have any bolt towers tearing you a new one. But the comp lacks mobility and follow up. Dark saeson has Yune that can be your ground orders/guidance bot, which has lots of mobility, but then you lose because of bolt tower chip damage. if they get a Dark armour mythic and a anima flying mythic, they can actually be in quite a decent spot.

14 hours ago, XRay said:

I personally do not recommend stalling armor teams. It needs a lot of merges and Flowers to be effective, since often times players can just overwhelm an armor team with Firesweepers and one shot nukes. Even with merges and Flowers, players can still overwhelm stall teams due to how powerful certain nukes are. It is also better if the team has 2 Dumas, since Duma is an armor unit who can contribute towards Ward Armor stacking.

For the best stall maps, you want the armor team to ideally be sitting in a corner that has obstructive terrain that limits mobility. The following is just a sample. I think there might be more effective setups out there, but this is the best I can think of off the top of my head.

This is the same issue that Zeo's map has. No mobility. A good Armour ball has way better mobility, follow up and reach. This formation is still a free win. 

14 hours ago, XRay said:

 

[XRay]

44 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

You're pretending the bonus unit is a worthless unit, whereas the bonus unit only needs smite and a tactics seal or whatever. You need to be able to test traps, and thus you need smite. Galeforce? Need Smite to engage/test traps. CC Vantage? Smite for a link skill or testing traps. Tanking? Smite not the most necessary, though it can always be used to smite someone to the far away Aether pot. Not bringing a bonus unit means you need to have a smitebot elsewhere. This is fine, but Peony, Eir and Altina al fulful other roles better and thus it is not bad to have a bonus unit. The bonus unit is also always treated as +10 since they gain 10 Hp and +4 on every other stat. That makes tanking a stray hit possible, whereas the non bonus unit is actively hurting your lift and often won't even be as useful as a regular bonus unit plenty of times.

If I need to use Smite, I rather put Smite on the Mythic unit since I do not use them for combat much, especially for Eir and Naga, and leave the slot open for a more useful unit.

1 hour ago, Vicious Sal said:

You're pretending the bonus unit is a worthless unit, whereas the bonus unit only needs smite and a tactics seal or whatever. You need to be able to test traps, and thus you need smite. Galeforce? Need Smite to engage/test traps. CC Vantage? Smite for a link skill or testing traps. Tanking? Smite not the most necessary, though it can always be used to smite someone to the far away Aether pot. Not bringing a bonus unit means you need to have a smitebot elsewhere. This is fine, but Peony, Eir and Altina al fulful other roles better and thus it is not bad to have a bonus unit. The bonus unit is also always treated as +10 since they gain 10 Hp and +4 on every other stat. That makes tanking a stray hit possible, whereas the non bonus unit is actively hurting your lift and often won't even be as useful as a regular bonus unit plenty of times.

That is true, but an armor team with good mobility is also a free win since they will be more likely to move outside the healing range of Healing Tower (D) or Ward Armor stack, and they are easier to bait too.

They do have the surprise factor going for them though, since not many players expect Armor March on a stall team.

[Vicious Sal]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

If I need to use Smite, I rather put Smite on the Mythic unit since I do not use them for combat much, especially for Eir and Naga, and leave the slot open for a more useful unit.

That's possible, Naga is indeed a useful smite bot, she can however not 6/6/6/6 your units with a link and two tactics without sacrificing her Divine fang. Eir is more useful as an  engage is you have disarm trap, since she can drop 10 hp every combat with fury. After two rounds of combat, she is a guaranteed WoM beacon. 

In the end, we'll just have to disagree about bonus units vs non bonus. Even when just going for decent rewards, denying yourself more than 140 lift from the get go to me is just a bad investment.

1 hour ago, XRay said:

 

That is true, but an armor team with good mobility is also a free win since they will be more likely to move outside the healing range of Healing Tower (D) or Ward Armor stack, and they are easier to bait too.

They do have the surprise factor going for them though, since not many players expect Armor March on a stall team.

That's because stalling is not what makes a good Armour defense team. A great defense team capitalises on the above average bulk, with units like W!Sothis with svallin's shield in the front, just to have a rally trap with ground orders set up to unleash a V!Faye or something similar with a +60 damage glacies proc.  Armour march is not even mentioned in my previous post. Ground orders gives armours 3 move by means of warping. That does not need march. Healing tower is also not a core part of an Armour defense team. 

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Vicious Sal said:

That's because stalling is not what makes a good Armour defense team. A great defense team capitalises on the above average bulk, with units like W!Sothis with svallin's shield in the front, just to have a rally trap with ground orders set up to unleash a V!Faye or something similar with a +60 damage glacies proc.  Armour march is not even mentioned in my previous post. Ground orders gives armours 3 move by means of warping. That does not need march. Healing tower is also not a core part of an Armour defense team. 

Zeo mentioned Wary Fighter and Ward Armor stacking, so that is why I went with a suggestion for a stall team.

Even if you give armor units better mobility via Ground Orders, I am not sure their above average bulk is of much help. Counter-Vantage units with the right support can still knock out an armor unit if they are not protected by Ward Armor and Healing Tower (D).

[Landmaster]

Astoundingly, despite my Dark Defense being ass, I was able to get T27 this week with Midori. I'm pretty sure I didn't use Annette in every match during her week and took a couple deaths, while every match was Midori this week, so that's probably why it evened out the -140 Lift on Defense.

I never thought I'd be able to get T27 on Light, I didn't even think I'd win my last match with no deaths, but somehow, we did~ I have now truly achieved everything remotely achievable for me.

Best daughter-in-law, for anyone curious~

She was with L!Eliwood, B!Lucina with double Distant Guard, Eir, and Peony

[Rinco]

Out of t27 because of my mistake yesterday. Lol

[Anacybele]

Made it to tier 25 which is pretty much the highest I've ever gone, but still couldn't get into silver throne range... I think this time I just had too many deaths. It's extremely hard to avoid having any... Oh well, maybe next time...

[Vicious Sal]

3 hours ago, Rinco said:

Out of t27 because of my mistake yesterday. Lol

Same here, made a misclick and smited someone in range, couldn't get them out. Lost 5 aether and couldn't get 50 aether for the next match

[Icelerate]

I lost a pretty easy fight because of a miscalculation but I ended up forgetting to put the escape ladder. Why doesn't AR give a warning if you don't have the ladder on your AR offense? It gives a warning if you don't have the bonus structure. 

Pretty mad that I ruined my week with a 100 aether lost because I surrendered after losing one unit thinking I had my ladder. 

[Hilda]

3 hours ago, Icelerate said:

I lost a pretty easy fight because of a miscalculation but I ended up forgetting to put the escape ladder. Why doesn't AR give a warning if you don't have the ladder on your AR offense? It gives a warning if you don't have the bonus structure. 

Pretty mad that I ruined my week with a 100 aether lost because I surrendered after losing one unit thinking I had my ladder. 

because Cav Line is something IS still hasnt fixed, so the assumption is that you have the escape ladder allways on.

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

because Cav Line is something IS still hasnt fixed, so the assumption is that you have the escape ladder allways on.

I'm sorry but I don't understand your point or joke. 

What does Cav line have to do with anything? If anything it is even more reason not to put too many structures especially an escape ladder with no uses. 

[Hilda]

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

I'm sorry but I don't understand your point or joke. 

What does Cav line have to do with anything? If anything it is even more reason not to put too many structures especially an escape ladder with no uses. 

that is the whole point, the only reason to remove the escape ladder and put as little structures on as possible is because of cav line...

[Diovani Bressan]

3 hours ago, Hilda said:

that is the whole point, the only reason to remove the escape ladder and put as little structures on as possible is because of cav line...

Or you could remove the ladder after using all the ladders... There is no point in having the ladder with zero uses in your backline.

[Vicious Sal]

On 5/3/2020 at 9:16 PM, XRay said:

Zeo mentioned Wary Fighter and Ward Armor stacking, so that is why I went with a suggestion for a stall team.

Even if you give armor units better mobility via Ground Orders, I am not sure their above average bulk is of much help. Counter-Vantage units with the right support can still knock out an armor unit if they are not protected by Ward Armor and Healing Tower (D).

He mentioned thinking about an armour defense team. I then explained why the setup, including WF, is a bad idea.

I also did not say to completely take out WA, but you do need some march, a unit with GO and such so you can’t stack it to 6 WA. The whole point of the movement is that units cannot engage safely without overextension. Thus bypassing the vantage unit entirely.

 

 

 

 

Also, people are putting more structures than Bolt tower, bonus, ladder and fort down?

 

The only other useful structures imo are infantry school, if you can’t deal with IP teams, Catapult, for the healing tower snipe. Cav school sucks since cav lines have restore or HC+, which just gives the cav line stat boosts. Fliers are sparce and armours are just rare  as a comp.

[Diovani Bressan]

Successes in both today and yesterday, and some perfect offensive matches as well... I am doing pretty well this season. It's so much easier when one of the offensive mythics is the bonus unit.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Diovani Bressan

[XRay]

4 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

I also did not say to completely take out WA, but you do need some march, a unit with GO and such so you can’t stack it to 6 WA. The whole point of the movement is that units cannot engage safely without overextension. Thus bypassing the vantage unit entirely.

But having movement means the armor team will be extra vulnerable to Counter-Vantage though, since the player can just set a Counter-Vantage unit at the edge of enemy range and bait armor units to attack.

[Vicious Sal]

28 minutes ago, XRay said:

But having movement means the armor team will be extra vulnerable to Counter-Vantage though, since the player can just set a Counter-Vantage unit at the edge of enemy range and bait armor units to attack.

No they can't. A rally trap with ground orders has range that extend beyond the movement range that is initially shown. So the actual range is bigger and because of the open layout of the map, they can easily walk past and kill a support unit.

[XRay]

13 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

No they can't. A rally trap with ground orders has range that extend beyond the movement range that is initially shown. So the actual range is bigger and because of the open layout of the map, they can easily walk past and kill a support unit.

But that is only if the player puts a support unit adjacent to a Counter-Vantage unit, which I do not think happens very often, since Counter-Vantage units are not dependent on support skills that requires adjacency. Counter-Vantage Blade mages just need bonus buffs, so they do not need any allies to be close to them once they got their bonus buffs.

Edited May 6, 2020 by XRay

[Vicious Sal]

45 minutes ago, XRay said:

But that is only if the player puts a support unit adjacent to a Counter-Vantage unit, which I do not think happens very often, since Counter-Vantage units are not dependent on support skills that requires adjacency. Counter-Vantage Blade mages just need bonus buffs, so they do not need any allies to be close to them once they got their bonus buffs.

 

I've just quickly searched for something that resembles what I mean. Switch reyson with jacob with a bold fighter firesweep setup (V!Faye is a better version of jacob, but let's not overly complicate things.) With a Rally, he is able to reach B!Micaiah after a dance and proper slot order. That covers a shitload more ground than the initial range. F!Tiki should be a ranged tome armour with spectral tome, and with a restore staff on Eirika, you can set a similar chain off on turn one by accident if you have a chill or shrine anywhere on your units or structures.  Ephraim should be Duma, and the flying school is where catapult should be. That covers the two most common lanes that have bolt towers. And next to the catapult should be panic manor. The shrines offer rather little, but they'll do for all intents and purposes.

So unless you know the ai, slot order and don't have chills, you won't be able to easily get the healing tower, snipe the firesweep+dazzling combo and keep all support units out of reach.

 

 

How exactly are you going to CC vantage this map?

Edited May 6, 2020 by Vicious Sal

[XRay]

54 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

I've just quickly searched for something that resembles what I mean. Switch reyson with jacob with a bold fighter firesweep setup (V!Faye is a better version of jacob, but let's not overly complicate things.) With a Rally, he is able to reach B!Micaiah after a dance and proper slot order. That covers a shitload more ground than the initial range. F!Tiki should be a ranged tome armour with spectral tome, and with a restore staff on Eirika, you can set a similar chain off on turn one by accident if you have a chill or shrine anywhere on your units or structures.  Ephraim should be Duma, and the flying school is where catapult should be. That covers the two most common lanes that have bolt towers. And next to the catapult should be panic manor. The shrines offer rather little, but they'll do for all intents and purposes.

So unless you know the ai, slot order and don't have chills, you won't be able to easily get the healing tower, snipe the firesweep+dazzling combo and keep all support units out of reach.

Ah, okay, I get what you mean now. The visuals help.

58 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

How exactly are you going to CC vantage this map?

Assuming unlimited resources, I would have Phina/TSOIA!Marth and give them Null C-Disrupt, but that is not something most players can afford.

Assuming there are three stacks of Ward Armor on the front line, I am not sure Rapier can punch through that in one hit on top of the defense tile. I will probably try to tackle it from the right flank and have Phina/TSOIA!Marth knock out the Bright Shrine (D) and let Rapier do its job from there.

[SuperNova125]

Already Tier 23. Honestly, Astra seasons have to be the easiest thing in AR. My team is Altina, Naga, Aversa, Rinea, Spring Iddun. So far only one death for Naga but that's fine. If this keeps up I can see going in 26 or something. 

If only Light was that great. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by SuperNova125

[XRay]

13 minutes ago, SuperNova125 said:

Already Tier 23. Honestly, Astra seasons have to be the easiest thing in AR. My team is Altina, Naga, Aversa, Rinea, Spring Iddun. So far only one death for Naga but that's fine. If this keeps up I can see going in 26 or something. 

If only Light was that great. 

I breezed through Light season for the first time last week with BH!Ike. It was a truly an off week for the first time in months. While I do take it easy during Light weeks, I still used my Astra Kronya team to practice on Light weeks for past half a year or so, and the extra challenge on Light weeks helps prep me a little better during Astra week when I tried to rank.

Pretty expensive set up though, but I am glad was able to put it all together finally. And with Darting Breath now a thing, I do not feel too bad about merging my BH!Ike instead of using him as fodder for my dragons.

[SuperNova125]

42 minutes ago, XRay said:

I breezed through Light season for the first time last week with BH!Ike. It was a truly an off week for the first time in months. While I do take it easy during Light weeks, I still used my Astra Kronya team to practice on Light weeks for past half a year or so, and the extra challenge on Light weeks helps prep me a little better during Astra week when I tried to rank.

Pretty expensive set up though, but I am glad was able to put it all together finally. And with Darting Breath now a thing, I do not feel too bad about merging my BH!Ike instead of using him as fodder for my dragons.

Yeah Ike is pretty good however I avoid using him as much now as he doesn't kill a lot and requires Lucina to work properly. In light seasons I mostly use either Larcei with Quickend Pulse to kill stuff with Regnal Astra and take some hits when needed or Fallen Corrin to tank with some Peony help, then I have Eir, Peony, Brave Michy and bonus. Thing is that Azura, Alm, Bramimond, Leif, Ophelia (the typical AR threats) are hard to counter with my current setup. While most of these guys die to Spring Iddun and Altina (if only Sothis was viable in AR offence and could get blessed all my AR related problems would be gone).

[Diovani Bressan]

Recently, Astra Seasons became easier for me. I managed to make a team where Altina is not targeted by global debuffs, so she will not allow Thrasir to trigger her B skill and will be able to bait her without problems. Thrasir is the biggers threat in Astra, in my opinion, and be able to deal with her makes it easier. I don't know how it will work in seasons where Altina is the bonus unit, though.

For Light, Young Marth with Null Follow-Up is doing great against Bramimonds.

[Vicious Sal]

On 5/6/2020 at 7:31 PM, XRay said:

Ah, okay, I get what you mean now. The visuals help.

Assuming unlimited resources, I would have Phina/TSOIA!Marth and give them Null C-Disrupt, but that is not something most players can afford.

Assuming there are three stacks of Ward Armor on the front line, I am not sure Rapier can punch through that in one hit on top of the defense tile. I will probably try to tackle it from the right flank and have Phina/TSOIA!Marth knock out the Bright Shrine (D) and let Rapier do its job from there.

Ok, but that's assuming. How would you fight it with your own team?