Legendary Hero Weapon Refines

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Let's be hypothetical for a moment here. Let's just say that, for some reason, they start giving Legendary Heroes weapon refines, just like they do all the regular units. It's bound to happen at some point, right? Maybe?

...no? Eh, let's be hypothetical anyway! Assuming the do give Legendary Heroes weapon refines, the trick would be to give them a refine that gives them a boost, but doesn't make them totally broken. So, with that in mind, let's hear some ideas for such refines!

An idea I had for Legendary Lyn (surprise surprise I thought of something for her IMMEDIATELY) was to give Swift Mulagir effectiveness against cavalry units (as a reference to the Mani Katti), and color advantage over colorless units. Seeing as she's generally considered among the least impressive Legendary Heroes thus far, this seems like something that'd boost her without making her too crazy.

What about you? What sort of reasonable refines can you think of for Legendary Heroes?

[thecrimsonflash]

legendary Ike needs a refine, he has nothing unique anymore, or they need to retroactively give him a new unique weapon or skill, because legendary Ike has nothing to differentiate him from everything else.

[Anacybele]

I suggest built-in Steady Stance or Sturdy Stance for a Ragnell refine. Ragnell originally grants a Def boost to Ike.

[Humanoid]

Lyn already has two effects (not counting flier effectiveness), so adding one more at most. Given her limitations as an enemy phase unit who doesn't come with close counter, I feel her weakness against bows and daggers ought to be patched up. Maybe simply if foe's range = 2 and foe attacks, calculate damage using the higher of Def or Res? That or Null C-Disrupt.?

Not worried about the Ike and Ryoma, who will simply get whatever their base versions get - maybe some sort of effective damage to mirror Roy? Fjorm gets QR, easy enough. Grima is tricky because it's harder to come up with something that also benefits M Grima about the same and accommodates F Grima's dual-phase versatility. Some sort of Guard effect?

[Zapp Branniglenn]

If they gave L!Ike a refine, wouldn't that also apply to regular Ike's? That puts us in the same position of him not having anything unique. And anyway he does have something unique, his earth boost. 

[Humanoid]

8 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

If they gave L!Ike a refine, wouldn't that also apply to regular Ike's? That puts us in the same position of him not having anything unique. And anyway he does have something unique, his earth boost. 

Radiant Aether (plus, y'know, being a Legendary hero) is all the unique that Legendary Ike needs. If anything, if we wanted the Ikes to be distinct from each other, then regular Ike should get the better refine because he's one of the most outdated units in the game.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

37 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Lyn already has two effects (not counting flier effectiveness), so adding one more at most. Given her limitations as an enemy phase unit who doesn't come with close counter, I feel her weakness against bows and daggers ought to be patched up. Maybe simply if foe's range = 2 and foe attacks, calculate damage using the higher of Def or Res? That or Null C-Disrupt.?

Excluding the pretty generic "Grants +3 to stat" that every weapon has nowadays, the only effect Swift Mulagir has is "If the number of allies within 2 spaces (excluding unit) > the number of foes within 2 spaces (excluding target), grants Atk/Spd+5 during combat." I think adding two more effects is reasonable, especially with how many effects and how long certain descriptions are for skills nowadays. I do like the idea of Null C-Disrupt, though.

26 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

If they gave L!Ike a refine, wouldn't that also apply to regular Ike's? That puts us in the same position of him not having anything unique. And anyway he does have something unique, his earth boost. 

Eh, I'm not so sure. Legendary Roy and regular Roy, for example, have different effects on their weapons. I'm sure there's something to add to Legendary Ike that'd separate him from regular Ike.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Fire Emblem Fan

[thecrimsonflash]

51 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

Radiant Aether (plus, y'know, being a Legendary hero) is all the unique that Legendary Ike needs. If anything, if we wanted the Ikes to be distinct from each other, then regular Ike should get the better refine because he's one of the most outdated units in the game.

radiant aether is not exclusive to legendary Ike (V!Ike was given radiant aether) there is nothing he has that some other unit doesn't have.

[Hilda]

14 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

radiant aether is not exclusive to legendary Ike (V!Ike was given radiant aether) there is nothing he has that some other unit doesn't have.

no but the combination of Radiant Aether + DC weapon is exclusiv on Legendary Ike.
Also because Legendary heroes allways sport a personal exclusiv skill sets them allready apart from other heroes.
The only ones i see that might need a refine are:
Lyn: Just give her Close counter, so she can make more use out of her A-Slot Personal skill. She is in need of a really good refine
Hector: Null Follow up kinda weakened his weapon a bit. But we dont need another offensiv Axe Armorer. I would buff his utility more so it meshes well with his C-Skill in mixed Teams.
In that regard: Infantry, Flying or Armor allys adjacent to unit and unit himself get + 1 Movement range at start of turn, only applies if there is not more then 2 of same movement type (does not stack with other movement enhancing buffs)
FGrima:  Is a bit tricky, she could get really broken with a wrong refine.  Removing her Dragon weakness with a special refine would be in my eyes too much.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

no but the combination of Radiant Aether + DC weapon is exclusiv on Legendary Ike.
Also because Legendary heroes allways sport a personal exclusiv skill sets them allready apart from other heroes.
The only ones i see that might need a refine are:
Lyn: Just give her Close counter, so she can make more use out of her A-Slot Personal skill. She is in need of a really good refine
Hector: Null Follow up kinda weakened his weapon a bit. But we dont need another offensiv Axe Armorer. I would buff his utility more so it meshes well with his C-Skill in mixed Teams.
In that regard: Infantry, Flying or Armor allys adjacent to unit and unit himself get + 1 Movement range at start of turn, only applies if there is not more then 2 of same movement type (does not stack with other movement enhancing buffs)
FGrima:  Is a bit tricky, she could get really broken with a wrong refine.  Removing her Dragon weakness with a special refine would be in my eyes too much.

Did FGrima really need refine? I feel shes still fairly strong. Granted shes.... pretty old by Legendary standard, but i'd consider her on the upper half. A refine for her would be rad though since i have her

[Ice Dragon]

Currently, the only weapons on Legendary Heroes that are at all plausible to receive refines in the foreseeable future are the Distant Counter weapons (Leiptr, Ragnell, Raijinto, Expiration).

Even then, I'd expect relatively tame effects for each of them. Things like

• Leiptr: Distant Stance 2
• Ragnell: Bracing Stance 2
• Raijinto: Fierce Breath
• Expiration: Guard 11

[XRay]

I think the Weapon Refinement thread already covers this.

For LOTW!Lyn, I would just extend the range of her skills by 1. This should make it easier to use her on Player Phase with her native skillset and make her better at buffing her allies.
Refinement: Skill that have "adjacent" in their description becomes "within 2 spaces," and skills with "within X spaces" in their description becomes "within X+1 spaces."
 

[eclipse]

I'd give Fjorm something like Close Def 2 on her weapon.  That way, she has something else to rely on in case Grima gets in her face.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

12 hours ago, Hilda said:

Lyn: Just give her Close counter, so she can make more use out of her A-Slot Personal skill. She is in need of a really good refine

She'd definitely need a refine, but I'm not quite sure how CC would really help her? Wouldn't that be more suitable for someone with higher defense? Wouldn't something like Distant Defense be better in that kind of area?

9 hours ago, XRay said:

I think the Weapon Refinement thread already covers this.

Eh, not really. There is some theoretical stuff in there, true, but that's really more of a discussion of what refines are actually happening for normal-summoning pool characters. This is specifically for the possibility of Legendary Hero refines and what they could be.

[Ice Dragon]

Instead of giving Swift Mulagir a refine, I'd rather they just give Laws of Sacae a buff by giving it Dull Ranged under the same existing condition so that it's more attractive compared to the new 4th-tier skills.

 

If we ever see refines for newer weapons, I'd like to see Swift Mulagir with "If the number of allies within 2 spaces > the number of foes within 2 spaces, resets Special cooldown of target before combat."

[daisy jane]

17 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

If they gave L!Ike a refine, wouldn't that also apply to regular Ike's? That puts us in the same position of him not having anything unique. And anyway he does have something unique, his earth boost. 

i dunno. I mean Ephiriam (prime) can get Legendary Ephriam's weapon but Eirika prime can't get Legendary Eirika's weapon. 

[Ice Dragon]

13 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

i dunno. I mean Ephiriam (prime) can get Legendary Ephriam's weapon but Eirika prime can't get Legendary Eirika's weapon. 

Ike's Ragnell and Legendary Ike's Ragnell are the exact same weapon skill. Any refine that applies to one applies to the other.

Siegmund and Flame Siegmund are two separate weapon skills. Same with the Sieglinde and Storm Sieglinde. Whether they can be refined or evolved as nothing to do with any other weapon skill's ability to be refined or evolved.

[Diovani Bressan]

Some ideas that I had:

 Leiptr (Mt 16, Rng 1)
Unit can counterattack regardless of foe's range.
If foe initiates combat, grants Def/Res+4 during combat.

 Blizzard (Mt 14, Rng 2)
Grants Res+3. Grants bonus to unit's Atk = total penalties on foe during combat.
Grants bonus to Atk/Spd/Def/Res during combat = current penalty on each of target's stats. Calculates each stat bonus independently.

 Ragnell (Mt 16, Rng )
Unit can counterattack regardless of foe's range.
If foe initiates combat, grants Def+7 during combat.

 Flame Siegmund (Mt 16, Rng 1)
Grants Atk+3. If the number of foes within 2 spaces (excluding target) ≥ the number of allies within 2 spaces (excluding unit), unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.
If unit is not adjacent to an ally, grants Atk/Def+6 during combat.

 Expiration (Mt 16, Rng 1)
Unit can counterattack regardless of foe's range. If foe's Range = 2, calculates damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res.
Neutralizes penalties (from skills like Panic, Threaten, etc.) and negative status effects (preventing counterattacks, restricting movement, etc.) on unit during combat.

[Ice Dragon]

21 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

 Leiptr (Mt 16, Rng 1)
Unit can counterattack regardless of foe's range.
If foe initiates combat, grants Def/Res+4 during combat.

Increasing Fjorm's Def and Res decreases the damage output from Ice Mirror, which is not good because Fjorm already has the lowest Atk stat of all infantry lances in the game (lower than Azura even).

Edited June 18, 2019 by Ice Dragon

[Diovani Bressan]

10 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Increasing Fjorm's Def and Res decreases the damage output from Ice Mirror, which is not good because Fjorm already has the lowest Atk stat of all infantry lances in the game (lower than Azura even).

Oh... that's true.

Maybe Wo Dao effect: Grants +10 to damage when Special triggers.

I mean, her main thing is the Ice Mirror, so why not give something related to it?

[Ice Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Oh... that's true.

Maybe Wo Dao effect: Grants +10 to damage when Special triggers.

I mean, her main thing is the Ice Mirror, so why not give something related to it?

Has anyone tested if Harmonic Lance adds to Ice Mirror's damage? It's in this really weird place where Ice Mirror activating doesn't occur at the same time as it deals damage.

 

My thoughts on Leiptr's refine was Distant Stance 2, which is +4 to all stats when a ranged enemy initiates combat (the same thing that Florina has on her weapon, but for ranged units instead of melee units). This gives her the benefits of increased defenses, but also makes up for potential lost damage by adding to her Atk (and also helps with her kind of crummy Spd stat, too).

The obvious drawback is that it wouldn't apply to melee-ranged enemies, but Fjorm's gimmick is her exceptionally good match-ups against ranged units due to Ice Mirror, so I think it's fine to double down on that role.

 

Or give her Dull Ranged. Because that's pretty much the best skill for giving ranged units the middle finger.

[Tree]

14 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Even then, I'd expect relatively tame effects for each of them. Things like

• Ragnell: Bracing Stance 2

Ragnell could have Guard, but I don't know if that's better or worse. (Or they could casually add the Slaying effect combined with Special Spiral. I wouldn't complain. 😀)

[Diovani Bressan]

9 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Has anyone tested if Harmonic Lance adds to Ice Mirror's damage? It's in this really weird place where Ice Mirror activating doesn't occur at the same time as it deals damage.

 

My thoughts on Leiptr's refine was Distant Stance 2, which is +4 to all stats when a ranged enemy initiates combat (the same thing that Florina has on her weapon, but for ranged units instead of melee units). This gives her the benefits of increased defenses, but also makes up for potential lost damage by adding to her Atk (and also helps with her kind of crummy Spd stat, too).

The obvious drawback is that it wouldn't apply to melee-ranged enemies, but Fjorm's gimmick is her exceptionally good match-ups against ranged units due to Ice Mirror, so I think it's fine to double down on that role.

 

Or give her Dull Ranged. Because that's pretty much the best skill for giving ranged units the middle finger.

I liked both your Dull Ranged idea and the Distant Stance 2 idea, which is the same base effect of Faye's Bow of Devotion.

We could also have a boring effect related to her siblings, like "if unit is within 2 spaces of a cavalry or infantry ally, grants Atk/Spd+4 during combat."

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

which is the same base effect of Faye's Bow of Devotion.

Oh... right... that exists. I need to build Faye sometime.

[Diovani Bressan]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

Oh... right... that exists. I need to build Faye sometime.

Faye is a really good unit with her new Bow. "Distant Stance" and QR on the weapon is very useful. I would +10 her, but being a 5* exclusive doesn't help me. Maybe if we get a rerun of the Weekly Banners, I can save orbs for her next appearance.