The Fire Emblem 3 Houses General Questions Thread

[Randoman]

Thanks for the help, guys!!

I've got a few more questions:

I've recently finished up chapter 8, and I was wondering: did I miss out on too much by not defeating the Death Knight at all yet, and not getting any of the Dark Seals that he drops?

For New Game+, I know that Renown is the currency used to carry over features from previous playthroughs to the New Game+ playthrough. For Renown spent on the second playthrough, does it disappear for good when I do a third/fourth/etc. playthrough? For example, if I get 15000 Renown from my first playthrough and I spend 10000 Renown for New Game+ features, will I only have 5000 Renown plus whatever I obtained in my second playthrough to spend on the third playthrough, or will I have 15000 Renown plus whatever I obtained in my second playthrough to spend on the third playthrough?

Regarding New Game+ and carrying weapon levels, say I train up Cyril to be a Wyvern Lord in my first playthrough (training up his Lance, Axe, and Flying levels only), then without carrying over Cyril's weapons level in the second playthrough, I train him again to be a Bow Knight in my second playthrough (training up his Lance, Bow, and Riding levels only). In the third playthrough and onward, if I were to carry over his weapon levels, would the first playthrough's Cyril's weapon levels only take precedence, would the second playthrough's Cyril's weapon levels only take precedence, or would both playthrough's weapon levels be added to each other (resulting in a Cyril with high skill in Lance, Axe, Flying, and Riding)?

In a similar vein, say I train Flayn in both Reason and Faith in my first playthrough via teaching and goals, but only get her to B+ in both skills since I rarely field her in battle. Then for my second playthrough, I don't carry over her skills via New Game+, but I also train Flayn in both Reason and faith via teaching and goals, still only getting her to B+ again since I rarely field her. For my third playthrough, if I do decide to carry over her weapon levels, will they be at B+ because it only accounts for one playthrough or whatever the highest weapon level I got was, or will it add the weapon levels obtained in both playthroughs, making Flayn's Reason and Faith shoot past B+?

How does choosing a Dancer and New Game+ work? Does who you choose as the Dancer not carry over with New Game+? Can multiple characters have access to the Dancer class, but only one character be a Dancer at any one time?

Regarding Adjutant Units, do they get weapon experience and support points with the character they're teamed up with?

I plan on doing four playthroughs (one for each route), using every character at least once. I have a couple of questions regarding this plan, so I do it right/as ideally as possible (no need to hold back on spoilers regarding obtaining playable characters, or who is playable):
-Do the chapter unit deployment slots increase past 10 eventually? If yes, what do they increase to, and what's the ideal amount of characters to train for a standard playthrough?
-Aside from what's shown on the SF Three Houses Recruitment page, is there any other major information I need to know for setting up my four playthroughs for the four routes, using everyone at least once? It looks to me that the units' four factions and the four routes pretty much sort themselves out, aside from the one Church of Seiros character whose essentially a Blue Lions character.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Randoman
Added More Questions

[SnowFire]

 

On 9/17/2023 at 5:42 PM, Randoman said:

I've recently finished up chapter 8, and I was wondering: did I miss out on too much by not defeating the Death Knight at all yet, and not getting any of the Dark Seals that he drops?

You didn't lose out on anything.  Dark Seals are needed to become Dark Mage and Dark Bishop, but they are sidegrades to Mage and Warlock at best, and downgrades or impossible to qualify for at worst.  This is especially true for the Blue Lions, whose natural mages are Annette, Mercedes, and Flayn, all of whom are women and thus can't even qualify for the gender-locked Dark Mage.  I guess Hanneman could hypothetically be a Dark Mage, but it's not a very good use of his time and by the time he joins, there's not too much time left for Intermediate classes anyway.

The problem with Dark Bishop vs. Warlock is that Warlock has Black Tomefaire & BM Uses x2, which is very good for mages who use Black Magic, which is most of them (including Hanneman - twice as many Meteor casts!).  Dark Bishop offers Fiendish Blow...  except you can get that from mastering vanilla Mage and it doesn't stack with itself.  This means Dark Bishop does less damage with fewer charges for most mages.  (And the three pure Dark Mages in the game who aren't aided by Black Tomefaire & BM Uses x2 are Hubert, Lysithea, and Hapi...  and two of them are female and thus can't pick the Dark Bishop class anyway!  Game really just wants Hubert to have it.  Where it isn't even that great anyway.)

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For New Game+, I know that Renown is the currency used to carry over features from previous playthroughs to the New Game+ playthrough. For Renown spent on the second playthrough, does it disappear for good when I do a third/fourth/etc. playthrough? For example, if I get 15000 Renown from my first playthrough and I spend 10000 Renown for New Game+ features, will I only have 5000 Renown plus whatever I obtained in my second playthrough to spend on the third playthrough, or will I have 15000 Renown plus whatever I obtained in my second playthrough to spend on the third playthrough?

I'm not sure, but I would seriously not worry about this.  You get so much Renown from doing a NG+ that spending it all is difficult unless you are being very loose.  I've never done layered NG+s, but my understanding is that on third and fourth playthroughs, for each character, you'll have access to the best skill level attained across all previous playthroughs - hence the possibility of "perfect files" where everyone has learned everything and the like.  It won't "add" levels, though, so your Flayn would be able to buy up to a B+ skill level.  (Alternatively, if you had an A and a C previously, then you could buy up to A, etc.)

You can carry over class mastery skills and skill ranks in NG+, but not actual class qualifications - you still need to take the exam.  This means no 2nd Dancer in an NG+ (although you could maybe get the Dancer's Special Dance skill in NG+?  Which is almost completely useless on non-Dancers?)

(Edit: And to be clear, by "carry over", what I mean is "the skills and skill ranks are available to buy for Renown."  So you're not FORCED to get them, but you'll have plenty of Renown, because Saint Statue levels carry over, the main Renown drain in-game, and so you don't need to keep "spending" there.)

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Regarding Adjutant Units, do they get weapon experience and support points with the character they're teamed up with?

Yes, specifically weapon XP for what weapon you've equipped them with - so don't use an Adjutant with no weapon!

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-Do the chapter unit deployment slots increase past 10 eventually? If yes, what do they increase to, and what's the ideal amount of characters to train for a standard playthrough?

12 is the hard cap for deploy slots, along with 3 adjutants.  This means there's not much advantage to going over 15 units trained - and you can definitely have some units in a "perma adjutant" state where you're not really training them for deployment, but just farming some support ranks on adjutant duty for support conversations.

I will say that if you're planning on beating the game 4 times, I would highly recommend getting the DLC.  That will give you 4 more units to deploy in the Ashen Wolves.  (After you've beaten the game once normally though, of course.)

You also might want to spy out which units have joint Paralogues that cross class boundaries, as those mean you have to do some "required" recruiting in order to see these paralogues.  You can technically get away with just one half of the pair during White Clouds (e.g. Dorothea / Ingrid, Ashe / Catherine) but that's not an option for the post-skip Paralogues.   Notably, these include Mercedes / Caspar (can't be on Crimson Flower), Linhardt / Leonie (can lock yourself out of this on Crimson Flower if you're not careful, but otherwise accessible to all routes), and Ferdinand / Lysithea (can't be on Crimson Flower).  So make sure you recruit whichever part of that pairing you're missing on at least one playthrough.

You didn't ask this, but I will add one other bit of unsolicited advice: don't play Verdant Wind (Deer) and Silver Snow (Eagles w/ Church) back to back.  It's a common point of speculation that IntSys & Koei Tecmo just shoved what they had done out the door at some point, and one aspect is that these two routes are very, very similar to one another.  Too similar.  Basically, if you play Crimson Flower next and then Verdant Wind, give the game a break for awhile before tackling Silver Snow.  (Less important if you do Verdant Wind next, of course.)

Edited September 20, 2023 by SnowFire

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 9/17/2023 at 5:42 PM, Randoman said:

For New Game+, I know that Renown is the currency used to carry over features from previous playthroughs to the New Game+ playthrough. For Renown spent on the second playthrough, does it disappear for good when I do a third/fourth/etc. playthrough? For example, if I get 15000 Renown from my first playthrough and I spend 10000 Renown for New Game+ features, will I only have 5000 Renown plus whatever I obtained in my second playthrough to spend on the third playthrough, or will I have 15000 Renown plus whatever I obtained in my second playthrough to spend on the third playthrough?

The bolded. The Renown carried over is equal to the Renown you have at the end of the playthrough.

On 9/17/2023 at 5:42 PM, Randoman said:

Regarding Adjutant Units, do they get weapon experience and support points with the character they're teamed up with?

If I recall, they also gain points in movement type (where applicable), but not Authority. You can check this after combat - it will show the skill level gains for both the lead unit, and the adjutant.

On 9/17/2023 at 9:51 PM, SnowFire said:

You can technically get away with just one half of the pair during White Clouds (e.g. Dorothea / Ingrid, Ashe / Catherine)

One exception - Hilda is required for the Hilda/Cyril paralogue, even if it's done pre-skip. Cyril isn't required, but he is recommended, if you want to get Almyra Mercenaries.

On 9/17/2023 at 5:42 PM, Randoman said:

In the third playthrough and onward, if I were to carry over his weapon levels, would the first playthrough's Cyril's weapon levels only take precedence, would the second playthrough's Cyril's weapon levels only take precedence, or would both playthrough's weapon levels be added to each other (resulting in a Cyril with high skill in Lance, Axe, Flying, and Riding)?

The bolded. It's hypothetically possible to get a unit to buyable S+ rank in all areas (say, on NG+++++++). And less difficult to get buyable mastery for all classes.

Edit: To clarify, the ranks won't be "added", per se. If Cyril gets A Lances and B Axes in one playthrough, and A+ Lances and C Axes the next, he'll be able to buy up to A+ Lances and B Axes on NG++.

On 9/17/2023 at 5:42 PM, Randoman said:

-Aside from what's shown on the SF Three Houses Recruitment page, is there any other major information I need to know for setting up my four playthroughs for the four routes, using everyone at least once? It looks to me that the units' four factions and the four routes pretty much sort themselves out, aside from the one Church of Seiros character whose essentially a Blue Lions character.

So, some players intuitively try to focus on the "Church" units on the "Church" route, Silver Snow. However, based on how chapter 13 works, you'll need to use your students in the Black Eagles. As such, I would recommend training at least some of them pre-skip.

Also, if you're doing NG+ for each route, remember that battalions are carried over. This can be really great for Lord battalions, like Claude's Immortal Corps. But I'd also recommend hiring all the route-exclusive battalions - for instance, even on NG+, you can't reacquire Blue Lion Dancers on any non-AM route.

[Randoman]

On 9/17/2023 at 8:51 PM, SnowFire said:

You also might want to spy out which units have joint Paralogues that cross class boundaries, as those mean you have to do some "required" recruiting in order to see these paralogues.  You can technically get away with just one half of the pair during White Clouds (e.g. Dorothea / Ingrid, Ashe / Catherine) but that's not an option for the post-skip Paralogues.   Notably, these include Mercedes / Caspar (can't be on Crimson Flower), Linhardt / Leonie (can lock yourself out of this on Crimson Flower if you're not careful, but otherwise accessible to all routes), and Ferdinand / Lysithea (can't be on Crimson Flower).  So make sure you recruit whichever part of that pairing you're missing on at least one playthrough.

Is there a list of cross-house paralogues that I can reference, which includes the characters it involves? I don't think SF has a list like that.

On 9/20/2023 at 7:50 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Also, if you're doing NG+ for each route, remember that battalions are carried over. This can be really great for Lord battalions, like Claude's Immortal Corps. But I'd also recommend hiring all the route-exclusive battalions - for instance, even on NG+, you can't reacquire Blue Lion Dancers on any non-AM route.

So in preparation for New Game+, should I buy all Blue Lions and Kingdom battallions before defeating the game? If yes, when is my last opportunity to buy all the battallions?

Also, before I defeat my Blue Lions playthrough, is there anything I should spend all my gold on, to make my three New Game+ playthroughs more optimized?

Also, if there's any tips or strategies you guys have on New Game+ optimization, feel free to mention them. I'm planning to do all four routes.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Randoman said:

So in preparation for New Game+, should I buy all Blue Lions and Kingdom battallions before defeating the game? If yes, when is my last opportunity to buy all the battallions?

Yes, I would recommend it. Even if you don't wind up using some of them, better to have a battalion around as an option, than not. Last chance, I believe, is during chapter 21, before the battle at the end of the month.

1 hour ago, Randoman said:

Also, before I defeat my Blue Lions playthrough, is there anything I should spend all my gold on, to make my three New Game+ playthroughs more optimized?

If you have the DLC, I think you can sacrifice certain items to the Pagan Altar to convert into Renown. Otherwise, I don't think there's anything you can "take with you", apart from the battalions.

[Randoman]

I just finished the Azure Moon route.

So for New Game+, if I were to use a female Byleth instead when I formerly used male Byleth in my previous playthrough, would I be able to carry over support levels that I gained as male Byleth, or not? I was thinking of using female Byleth to unlock both CGs for male and female Byleth for the White Clouds CG section (well, as many of the CGs as I can), but if I can't carry over male Byleth's supports when using female Byleth, I'll settle for using male Byleth so I can get the Blue Lions characters on my New Game+ file quickly and easily by carrying over support levels.

Also, I didn't realize that characters other than Byleth could get paired endings. Is there a mechanics guide to this anywhere online? I'm curious as to which paired endings take precedence over others, since I did one save where I chose Byleth x Annette, and another where I chose Byleth x Dorothea, resulting in significantly different paired endings:

The first resulted in the following:

Byleth & Annette
Dimitri & Dedue
Ashe & Mercedes
Sylvain & Ingrid
Felix & Dorothea

And the second resulted in the following:

Byleth & Dorothea
Dimitri & Dedue
Felix & Sylvain
Ashe & Mercedes
Ingrid & Ignatz
Annette & Gilbert

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Randoman said:

I just finished the Azure Moon route.

So for New Game+, if I were to use a female Byleth instead when I formerly used male Byleth in my previous playthrough, would I be able to carry over support levels that I gained as male Byleth, or not? I was thinking of using female Byleth to unlock both CGs for male and female Byleth for the White Clouds CG section (well, as many of the CGs as I can), but if I can't carry over male Byleth's supports when using female Byleth, I'll settle for using male Byleth so I can get the Blue Lions characters on my New Game+ file quickly and easily by carrying over support levels.

You can. In fact, you can already have the points for S supports even with a different-gender Byleth. Granted, they'd still be locked behind when you are in the game.

The way this works, from what I remember looking up about it, is that support points are still gained even once you reach the final rank. Support points cap at like 1001 or so. Characters gain points until they reach the threshold for a support rank. Then until you unlock said rank, they won't gain points, but will again afterwards until they hit the next rank. However, once you unlock the final rank, they'll still gain points until reaching the absolute cap.

So, to use Male Byleth as an example. He and Dimitri can only reach to A rank, which requires 600 points. Once they unlock it, they'll still gain points until reaching 1001 (since there's no further rank). Then, you can transfer that through NG+, so you can have a Female Byleth already have those 1001 points too, thus an instant S rank if it wasn't gated to game progress.

I put this up because it's relevant to below:

1 hour ago, Randoman said:

Also, I didn't realize that characters other than Byleth could get paired endings. Is there a mechanics guide to this anywhere online? I'm curious as to which paired endings take precedence over others, since I did one save where I chose Byleth x Annette, and another where I chose Byleth x Dorothea, resulting in significantly different paired endings:

The first resulted in the following:

Byleth & Annette
Dimitri & Dedue
Ashe & Mercedes
Sylvain & Ingrid
Felix & Dorothea

And the second resulted in the following:

Byleth & Dorothea
Dimitri & Dedue
Felix & Sylvain
Ashe & Mercedes
Ingrid & Ignatz
Annette & Gilbert

Paired endings do seem to have a bit of a complex formula.

Simply put, paired endings work on two details: The support points between any given pair, and their priority. Priority is based on the Roster List, and the game checks them individually in that order. Byleth always goes first since they're first on the list, but also since S supports means they can get 1001 points (everyone else can only reach 1000). I believe Roster List priority is used when a character has the same amount of support points with more than one potential paired ending candidate, and it checks priority also for the second character, again going in descending order on the list.

So to use your two lists. As a Black Eagle, Dorothea is checked before every Blue Lion (sans Dimitri I believe, House Leaders go between Byleth and the rest of the students). Thus in the first list she gets paired with Felix. However, in your second list, because Byleth now chose Dorothea, then she can no longer be paired with Felix naturally. Then, when the game reached the Blue Lions, as Felix is now free, the game checks him now, and thus gets paired with Sylvain. Dorothea taking Felix first due to having higher priority is why Sylvain could get paired with Ingrid on the first list, but now it's with Felix in the second list because Byleth took Dorothea first now.

That's pretty much how it works. So, if you want to trigger certain paired endings, the safest way is to only unlock the A ranks you want. If you still want to unlock the other supports, then hold on until your desired pairs max out their support points (as in, until the hearts no longer appear), then ensure the other pairs don't get enough points so they remain lower and thus aren't chosen.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Randoman]

Thanks for the detailed explanations Acacia!!

Would you happen to remember where you got all this info from? I'm curious, since GameFAQs, Serenes Forest, and the Fire Emblem Wiki doesn't have this kind of info.

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, Randoman said:

Thanks for the detailed explanations Acacia!!

Would you happen to remember where you got all this info from? I'm curious, since GameFAQs, Serenes Forest, and the Fire Emblem Wiki doesn't have this kind of info.

I found it on a Reddit thread. If I can find it again, I'll link it up.

Well, it's not the one I saw, but this one also talks about the priority order and gives more examples:

 

[whase]

IIRC, in the DLC there is a fortune teller that can you can pay to lock certain pairs together. I've never tried it, but if you want to ensure specific pairings that's the way to go.

[Hrothgar777]

I'm slogging through a Maddening run, which is probably the most agonizing video game playthrough of my life that I've resolved to persevere through instead of just dropping. Right now I'm on chapter 8, and I'm doing one of the paralogues.

So there I was tonight, despairing of life itself as usual, when suddenly I noticed the "Retreat" option. The description suggests that I can reset the battle while keeping my EXP, which normally wouldn't be an option on the highest difficulty level.

Is it too good to be true? Are there any downsides? And if the answer is "no" to both questions, can it be done an unlimited number of times or just once?

Edited December 12, 2023 by Hrothgar777

[Dark Holy Elf]

20 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

I'm slogging through a Maddening run, which is probably the most agonizing video game playthrough of my life that I've resolved to persevere through instead of just dropping. Right now I'm on chapter 8, and I'm doing one of the paralogues.

So there I was tonight, despairing of life itself as usual, when suddenly I noticed the "Retreat" option. The description suggests that I can reset the battle while keeping my EXP, which normally wouldn't be an option on the highest difficulty level.

Is it too good to be true? Are there any downsides? And if the answer is "no" to both questions, can it be done an unlimited number of times or just once?

On both Hard and Maddening, you don't keep your exp/etc. when you retreat, it's pretty much the same as resetting the game.

[Hrothgar777]

Any tips whatsoever for Chapter 13? I'm on Golden Deer, Maddening. The difficulty spike makes Chapter 12 (which should've been a climax of the Maddening challenge) seem almost tame in comparison.

[Dark Holy Elf]

A lot of the advice I'd give depends on the builds of Ignatz/Lorenz/Hilda/Leonie/Byleth, but this point should apply regardless:

Avoid agrroing the snipers (that is, stepping inside their range) until you need to. If one wakes up, the crowd of other enemies around them will too. Instead, use any fliers you have (Claude obviously, any others are a nice bonus) to bait individual non-sniper enemies, thinning them out as much as you can. Note that once an enemy is woken up, they will move toward your squishies unit, generally, and if they move beside an enemy, THAT enemy wakes up to, so be careful about waking an enemy then retreating.

Claude's Ashes and Dust is a huge get-out-of-jail free card if a turn looks bad. You get two shots, use them wisely.

Remember that Claude (and any other fliers) can dismount if you want him to take a hit from a sniper... or just in general, because of the thicket evade bonus.

[Shadow Mir]

On 2/10/2024 at 10:05 PM, Hrothgar777 said:

Any tips whatsoever for Chapter 13? I'm on Golden Deer, Maddening. The difficulty spike makes Chapter 12 (which should've been a climax of the Maddening challenge) seem almost tame in comparison.

That isn't something I can help much on without knowing your builds, particularly for the 5 DHE mentioned. That said, even then I'd still defer to a more knowledgeable person for help. 

For my own question... how effective are low HP builds in this game?? Because I am dubious as to whether they really are as effective as some people say..

[Dark Holy Elf]

36 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

For my own question... how effective are low HP builds in this game?? Because I am dubious as to whether they really are as effective as some people say..

Depends on the build, the point in the game, and your playstyle.

Broadly when talking about low-HP builds, we are talking about one of the following:

Vengeance: Vengeance allows its users to kill foes in one hit at a point in the game where few other things kill in one hit (just Catherine and perhaps an RNG-blessed lord). To use it the user needs to have low health so you'll need to protect them, but the payoff can certainly be worth it on some maps, particularly around Chapter 4-8 or so. In fact, I would say Vengeance during this stretch of the game is the most "worth it" low-HP tool. The further you go in the game, the less useful I find it, because you get more and more things which kill reliably without the downside of being one hit from death (and needing to be lowered there every fight), though some players find it useful even late (I'm not a big fan). Bernadetta and Dedue tend to get more out of it than Cyril, for several reasons (they get it earlier, they have Persecution Complex and higher HP respectively, and they don't have the largely superior Point-Blank Volley).

Balthus's personal: It's a cool bonus for sure, but a bit fiddly even by the standards of low HP powerups. The defence boost is quite potent in pure physical situations early (later it won't do much unless you're already stacking a lot of def), and of course the attack allows kills you might otherwise miss, so I do like to keep Balthus at lower HP when possible. The big problem is that Balthus wants to use combat arts on player phase, and those can easily heal him out of this zone due to his crest. If you're leveraging this with him late, chances are it's for Vantage/Wrath (see below).

Defiant [abilities]: Are almost strictly bad, IMO. Most are gained incredibly late, and I can't say I'm ever tempted to kick out one of my existing good skills for something that requires me to be at <25% HP. Defiant Strength is gained earlier but involves mastering Hero (which sucks, on top of being gender-locked), and every time I've tried to use it the unit has fallen off too much to be worthwhile thereafter. Particularly since the main build that wants low HP late is the one below, and the thought of trying to master both Hero and Warrior on one unit fills me with a deep feeling of dread.

Vantage/Wrath: IMO this is the main low-HP build worth using in the later stages in the game, though it's still a bit weird and I would hesitate to call myself a big fan. There's a major investment here: Needing 150 class exp in the mediocre Warrior is a drag (and you'll also want Mercenary), you have to set up for low HP every fight, and you have to avoid or mitigate all the things which punch holes in this build, i.e. siege weapons, monsters/armours, and gambits. But if you do the payoff is cool, being able to reliably kill on the enemy phase without having to worry about battalion durability, and Retribution is nice at expanding the things the build works on (meteor/bolting in particular). Works best on units with high strength since every point counts for triple, and an axe boon is preferred as well to get to Warrior in a decent amount of time.

When using low HP builds in general, watch out for extra sources of healing: there are a lot in this game. Sacred weapons and various accessories, healing tiles, being in range of Fortify, healing crest effects (Byleth, Edelgard, Balthus, Claude, etc.), being adjacent to Dorothea, being named Raphael. Most of these can be worked around to some extent but they're definitely a source of frustration when using these builds in my experience. Conversely, you can take advantage of various ways to safely lower HP like devil weapons, relic backlash (if the unit doesn't have a crest), and of course deliberately leaving the unit in range of certain enemies (archers are especially useful for this on Maddening due to Poison Strike).

[Shadow Mir]

On 2/19/2024 at 7:02 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Depends on the build, the point in the game, and your playstyle.

Broadly when talking about low-HP builds, we are talking about one of the following:

Vengeance: Vengeance allows its users to kill foes in one hit at a point in the game where few other things kill in one hit (just Catherine and perhaps an RNG-blessed lord). To use it the user needs to have low health so you'll need to protect them, but the payoff can certainly be worth it on some maps, particularly around Chapter 4-8 or so. In fact, I would say Vengeance during this stretch of the game is the most "worth it" low-HP tool. The further you go in the game, the less useful I find it, because you get more and more things which kill reliably without the downside of being one hit from death (and needing to be lowered there every fight), though some players find it useful even late (I'm not a big fan). Bernadetta and Dedue tend to get more out of it than Cyril, for several reasons (they get it earlier, they have Persecution Complex and higher HP respectively, and they don't have the largely superior Point-Blank Volley).

Balthus's personal: It's a cool bonus for sure, but a bit fiddly even by the standards of low HP powerups. The defence boost is quite potent in pure physical situations early (later it won't do much unless you're already stacking a lot of def), and of course the attack allows kills you might otherwise miss, so I do like to keep Balthus at lower HP when possible. The big problem is that Balthus wants to use combat arts on player phase, and those can easily heal him out of this zone due to his crest. If you're leveraging this with him late, chances are it's for Vantage/Wrath (see below).

Defiant [abilities]: Are almost strictly bad, IMO. Most are gained incredibly late, and I can't say I'm ever tempted to kick out one of my existing good skills for something that requires me to be at <25% HP. Defiant Strength is gained earlier but involves mastering Hero (which sucks, on top of being gender-locked), and every time I've tried to use it the unit has fallen off too much to be worthwhile thereafter. Particularly since the main build that wants low HP late is the one below, and the thought of trying to master both Hero and Warrior on one unit fills me with a deep feeling of dread.

Vantage/Wrath: IMO this is the main low-HP build worth using in the later stages in the game, though it's still a bit weird and I would hesitate to call myself a big fan. There's a major investment here: Needing 150 class exp in the mediocre Warrior is a drag (and you'll also want Mercenary), you have to set up for low HP every fight, and you have to avoid or mitigate all the things which punch holes in this build, i.e. siege weapons, monsters/armours, and gambits. But if you do the payoff is cool, being able to reliably kill on the enemy phase without having to worry about battalion durability, and Retribution is nice at expanding the things the build works on (meteor/bolting in particular). Works best on units with high strength since every point counts for triple, and an axe boon is preferred as well to get to Warrior in a decent amount of time.

When using low HP builds in general, watch out for extra sources of healing: there are a lot in this game. Sacred weapons and various accessories, healing tiles, being in range of Fortify, healing crest effects (Byleth, Edelgard, Balthus, Claude, etc.), being adjacent to Dorothea, being named Raphael. Most of these can be worked around to some extent but they're definitely a source of frustration when using these builds in my experience. Conversely, you can take advantage of various ways to safely lower HP like devil weapons, relic backlash (if the unit doesn't have a crest), and of course deliberately leaving the unit in range of certain enemies (archers are especially useful for this on Maddening due to Poison Strike).

I see. In a Maddening context, personally, I consider the need for low HP to be a big, and universal, issue with these builds, as being at low HP in a game where reinforcements show up before enemy phase is just asking for trouble. I ten billion percent agree on Defiant abilities though. They just aren't worth it. Also, don't enemies eventually get so strong that you cannot survive one round against them? Setting up low HP builds would be really hard if that's the case... using devil weapons can help with that, but that's kinda slow.

Also, are auxiliary battles EVER worth it on Maddening??? I am very heavily leaning towards no.

Edited February 24 by Shadow Mir

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

5 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, are auxiliary battles EVER worth it on Maddening??? I am very heavily leaning towards no.

Class EXP, Weapon EXP, Dropped stat boosters, and huge Gold dumps go brrrrr.

[Dark Holy Elf]

12 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, are auxiliary battles EVER worth it on Maddening??? I am very heavily leaning towards no.

The ones attached to quests are, obviously, at least big quests like the merchant ones.

Otherwise? I typically find them not worth it, myself. Much of what aux fights give you can be given in a fraction of the time through other means. A seminar gives you comparable weapon exp in seconds, and usually just choosing to explore gives even better rewards still - professor exp, money (via arena), gardening rewards (stat boosters), support building, faculty training.

To go into more detail: realistically, realistically you usually want to explore every weekend except the last of each month, for motivation reasons (exception: if you have lots of paralogues you want to do). In Chapter 5 you should do two quests battles, and in Chapter 8-11 (and for the Lions, Chapter 6), you have paralogues, which give better rewards than aux fights. In Chapter 7 there is no "free" battle weekend, as Chapter 8 opens with an instruction week before the first weekend. That just leaves Chapters 3, 4, and 6 (Eagles/Deer) pre-timeskip. In these chapters, there's a case for aux fights, but IMO early professor rank increases and recruitment prerequisite increases are more valuable, and certainly take less time. I suppose there's also a case for aux fights post-timeskip but I definitely find them to be a bit grindy / time-wasting at that point. You don't need to master many classes post-timeskip unless you're desperately trying to pretend that Gilbert is a good unit.

12 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, don't enemies eventually get so strong that you cannot survive one round against them?

Depends on the unit and the enemy, but I don't feel this is that big a problem. I will say a lot of the units one might favour for Vantage/Wrath builds (i.e. high-str units with axe boons) tend towards being reasonably bulky, so it's usually not very hard to get them to survive something. If you're okay with your V/W user not being a flier, they can also use a guard adjutant to survive doubles (and V/W users kinda want an adjutant for the hit boost), or even Blessing.

[lvrossem]

Seteth's statue in the Cathedral depicts him with the spear of Assal, but when you recruit him, he can't even equip the damn thing, why??

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, lvrossem said:

Seteth's statue in the Cathedral depicts him with the spear of Assal, but when you recruit him, he can't even equip the damn thing, why??

Perhaps he's gotten rusty with age? It's common for older characters to fall behind where they were in their prime, both in stats and ranks. Take Marcus, from FE7 to FE6, for example:

Spoiler

Ranks

Swords: A -> D

Lances: A -> A

Axes: B -> E

Stats

HP: 31 -> 32

Str: 15 -> 9

Skl: 15 -> 14

Spd: 11 -> 11

Lck: 8 -> 10

Def: 10 -> 9

Res: 8 -> 8

Con: 11 -> 11

...Huh. Actually, outside of Strength, his stats are barely changed. Still, FE6 Marcus is far behind where a trained FE7 Marcus would end up. And his ranks, aside from Lances, definitely deteriorated. Seteth has probably experienced the same loss, as he traded his spear for a quill.

[lvrossem]

Fair point, but let's not forget that Marcus is just some guy and Seteth is a Saint 😛

[Hrothgar777]

How do you tank that stupid turtle?

 

I beat Chapter 17 (second Gronder Field) today, and that was no mean feat on Maddening. I took a break for like a month because I knew this battle wasn't going to be a fun one. Leonie's paralogue became available on like Chapter 14 but somehow it's STILL harder than what I just went through.

Any tips on clearing this absolute abomination of a map? I'm Golden Deer, my archers are Claude and Shamir, I've promoted Lorenz to a black magic user, Lysithea and Marianne are what you expect them to be. I have Felix as a brawler but I've also kept Raphael in that role for some reason. Leonie's a horse archer (not a very good one), and I normally don't use Lindhardt so he's a stick in the mud that I just have to keep alive somehow. Byleth is Byleth.

Edited April 12 by Hrothgar777

[SnowFire]

Turtle is one of the hardest & most stressful maps in the game, especially the first time.  No shame in having trouble there.

Light torches and be aware that archers can come mess with you as you move up the center if you stand too far forward.  This can actually be acceptable if you have a Sniper that'll win an archery duel (Shamir?).  Swordmasters from the fog are terrifying, but can be handled with either a dodgetank (break out Swordbreaker if you have it on some Falcon Knight) or a pure defense tank.  I guess Felix or Raphael from your description?  But yeah, it's tricky.  There's also some fliers that need to be somehow safely baited, but once they are they'll die horribly to arrows/magic.  When you take the top right, FAQ the location the swordmaster spawns on the "right" side of the map and place Linhardt there, he can spam Physic from afar or something as long as the cav reinforcements from the bottom right don't gank him.  (Or someone more survivable if you don't trust your timing to be fast enough, but block the swordmasters for sure.)

For turtle himself, you can spend a little time clearing both the front porch and the right side.  It's okay to steer clear of the left side other than the basics since there's another ninja enemy spawning spot there.  Anyway, since he deals magic damage, some of your normally frail mages may actually be able to hang with him and not get OHKO'd.  He's not actually that fast, so as long as you don't get flat OHKO'd, you should be able to throw damage in safely early.  He's a rare time where cooking up an HP boost back at the Monastery has some merit if you have some borderline OHKO'd characters, although I suspect you already saved past that.  But the first two lifebars shouldn't be THAT different from most other monsters.

The last two lifebars are quite rude though, with Miracle (off super Luck, assume it will activate) & Quick Riposte.  Anyway, there are two big ways around Quick Riposte.  One is using uncounterable attacks - Gambits most obviously, but also stuff like Windsweep if Byleth (/Yuri) has learned that, or simply overwhelming fatal damage that KOs a life bar.  The second is the stun status from breaking all the barriers.  He can't counter while stunned.  (The third, and far less preferable one, is to have a huge magic tank who can just take two hits, or to have a high-offense unit with a guard adjutant.)

My main suggestion would be to go for a two-turn kill once the coast seems clear enough.  First turn, weaken most barriers.  It's okay to get horribly mauled on counterattacks (as long as you're not standing near the "left" side ninja reinforcements) because you're going to make sure that whoever uses the last Gambit this turn can survive a round of combat, and they'll be the recipient of his wrath on enemy phase.  Turn 2, break the final barrier and let all hell break loose.  Just dump all your best damage in.  If he's still not dead, well, you won't be attacked on enemy phase (although Renewal will trigger), but you'll still need to finish the job on turn 3, and something has probably gone wrong.  If you haven't tried it much, since you said you have Shamir, note that Hunter's Volley with a Killer Bow is fantastic for shearing off extreme amounts of monster HP, fast.

Edited April 13 by SnowFire

[Shadow Mir]

On 4/11/2024 at 9:23 PM, Hrothgar777 said:

How do you tank that stupid turtle?

 

I beat Chapter 17 (second Gronder Field) today, and that was no mean feat on Maddening. I took a break for like a month because I knew this battle wasn't going to be a fun one. Leonie's paralogue became available on like Chapter 14 but somehow it's STILL harder than what I just went through.

Any tips on clearing this absolute abomination of a map? I'm Golden Deer, my archers are Claude and Shamir, I've promoted Lorenz to a black magic user, Lysithea and Marianne are what you expect them to be. I have Felix as a brawler but I've also kept Raphael in that role for some reason. Leonie's a horse archer (not a very good one), and I normally don't use Lindhardt so he's a stick in the mud that I just have to keep alive somehow. Byleth is Byleth.

That turtle attacks resistance iirc. Therefore, a mage that chugs Pure Water should shrug off his attacks. Also, his own resistance is garbage compared to his defense.