Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.

[Emperor Hardin]

12 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I hear they were called the same thing in Japanese. Is that incorrect?

They are, Dragon's Altar being Dragon's table and being called Table because thats where Grima eats is a localization change.

There's also a large localization change coming up in one of the spotpass chapters.

12 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Also, what's the conflicting Excellus info?

According to Walhart's supports, Excellus was Grimleal all along and shares their religious beliefs. Walhart says Excellus corrupted his ambitions.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Emperor Hardin

[Alastor15243]

18 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

According to Walhart's supports, Excellus was Grimleal all along and shares their religious beliefs. Walhart says Excellus corrupted his ambitions.

Hmmm... I'd have to see the supports to be sure, that information alone isn't inherently contradictory. He could have originally just been a Grimleal minority in a Mila-Naga-Duma-whatever-majority country, with no affiliation to the Plegian church until Aversa contacted him.

[Interdimensional Observer]

21 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I've heard that, and I've been meaning to watch a Dark Conflict let's play. I seem to remember there not being any in English on YouTube for the longest time. But I have to say... the English localization team did a great job with the script. The end result is a game that kept its darker subject matter and tone while simultaneously making it funnier than the games that were all about being wacky and ridiculous.

You're referring to the prior three Advance Wars? I'd say you're right actually, the character interactions there were kinda shallow and there was still seriousness, did they ever really allow themselves to go crazy? Days of Ruin does let in anime influences, Isabella being a total "Mystery Girl" springs readily to mind, but the character interactions overall, at least according the the NA localization, were a whole lot better.

Those Tactical Tip Show War Room visits were both helpful and amusing advice segments. If it weren't for FE not having a fixed roster of usable units who will always have the exact same stats, I'd love FE to run wholesale with this idea. Wouldn't it be delightful if during the Birthright opera house battle, one of the Hoshidan siblings walked into the War Room and then Garon suddenly showed up making them seriously freak out, only for Garon to say the War Room is not a place for violence and offering them recommendations about how to survive his own fury? -Just thinking of an example. Good luck telling me what strategy Validar would recommend for the battle you finished today, that map for some reason stands out to me as really terribly absent in map design, what could he say?

 

24 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I remember hating that scene with Lucina a lot. Just ... it really rubbed me the wrong way that Lucina's all too happy to kill the avatar when it was someone else's spouse or parent, but the moment it's her mother or her husband she can't do it. All that spiel about "I must save the world no matter what" and she crumbles -- but only when it's someone close to her.

And that would've been nice if it were presented as an actual flaw of Lucina's, but it's not ever brought up again afterwards. So ...

Well, that'd mean variable script extending past select moments. Awakening already has too much text. Okay okay, the Support writers might not be the same people who jot down plot dialogue, but finite writing resources remain a thing?

And if it were a flaw of Lucina, like daughter like father. If Chrom sobbed out loud and then sobered up and said a little while later "Your life is your own, do what you want with it, I'll stand back", I might like him a little more. I don't remember him saying anything to the latter's effect as is.

[Alastor15243]

24 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Those Tactical Tip Show War Room visits were both helpful and amusing advice segments. If it weren't for FE not having a fixed roster of usable units who will always have the exact same stats, I'd love FE to run wholesale with this idea. Wouldn't it be delightful if during the Birthright opera house battle, one of the Hoshidan siblings walked into the War Room and then Garon suddenly showed up making them seriously freak out, only for Garon to say the War Room is not a place for violence and offering them recommendations about how to survive his own fury? -Just thinking of an example. Good luck telling me what strategy Validar would recommend for the battle you finished today, that map for some reason stands out to me as really terribly absent in map design, what could he say?

Hahahaha. Yeah, seeing Awakening try to recommend a strategy would be a huge laugh. It might be fun in the other games though. But weirdly I don't know if any of them could get away with it in quite the same tone that Days of Ruin did, even though I don't feel its existence ruined Days of Ruin's tone like I'm concerned it would ruin Fire Emblem's. Weird how that is. I can't really put my finger on why I suspect that.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Alastor15243

[Emperor Hardin]

46 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Hmmm... I'd have to see the supports to be sure, that information alone isn't inherently contradictory. He could have originally just been a Grimleal minority in a Mila-Naga-Duma-whatever-majority country, with no affiliation to the Plegian church until Aversa contacted him.

Its not a strong contradiction, Excellus could just be very mercantile.

Oddly no one seems to worship Duma all in Awakening, the most we get is Say'ri referring to a frightful demon that was killed where demon's ingle is located, which is hardly worship.

[Venger_06]

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

If you're male and her husband, or female and her mother, the scene gets more emotional and Lucina becomes far more conflicted and ultimately can't bring herself to do it.

You know, one of the reasons I told you to pick Male Robin and S support Lucina was to see the scene of the two as a couple, which in my opinion is the emotional high point of the game and closes their character arcs.

Lucina’s arc is about herself vs her duty. She winds up embodying a near extremist attitude, as from a young age she was extremely burdened with a mission to complete above all else, as everyone would be doomed should she fail, and this is what drives her throughout the story. Her self-sacrificing attitude, placing duty above self to the highest degree, is the very Marth "I am a Prince before a brother or a son" attitude.

Anyway, let’s move on to Lucina and Robin’s Hot Spring Scramble conversation. At the end of it, she worries that her duty may clash with the mission to save the world, and will force her to choose between Robin and the mission, a happy life with her love or the safety of the world and its inhabitants.

Following this, there’s the Judgment scene, where her fears come true and we see her duty vs self appear again. While in the normal version of this conversation Lucina still admits that its murder, she resigned to this fate and was ready to kill Robin. In the lover version, she eventually breaks down, with her hopes and dreams mostly shattered after the turn of events. Using skip review, it's possible to see what Robin has to say without player input and the “canon” choice is him accepting his demise at her blade, only asking that she finds happiness somehow. She eventually yields, but this is an important character moment because she chooses her heart over the world, which she never would have done before.

At the same time, this scene also develops Robin. The entire bad future happened because Robin did not develop bonds strong enough to withstand Grima. Chrom himself states that their bonds are stronger in this dimension, which is why Robin eventually resists the brainwashing. The difference between the original timeline and this timeline? The presence of the future children. It’s not a stretch to imagine that Robin managed to create stronger ties to this place thanks to having married and bonded with their family. Therefore, Lucina traveled back in time to prevent her future from happening and ended up doing it by making Grima’s avatar fall in love with her. Thus, Robin gathers the will to challenge his destiny a second time because of her.

It adds a really good dimension to the story, and fits the concept of “invisible ties” that Awakening has going on for its themes.

[Jotari]

12 hours ago, Ottservia said:

 

I mean that should go without saying.

Well you posted again so it seemed it didn't.

6 hours ago, Samz707 said:

 

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Day 16 Bonus: Chapter 22

And the sky looks absolutely fucked up, with this freaky misshapen crucifix in the background consumed by a pillar of red light. Fucked up image... which makes it amusing that nobody seems to comment on it.

Aaaanywho, in comes one of the big endgame chapters where we fight a bunch of elite risen, most of them wielding legendary weapons. None of them are anyone we know, though. Mostly because all of the really big-name enemies we've killed are actually still alive waiting to be recruited once we unlock the final chapter. They all have extremely high stats, some of them capped, and it's become increasingly obvious that nobody but Alexandria, Morgan and Lucina has any business fighting anyone. Not that it'll be hard to keep them out of the fray. There are only 13 enemies, counting the boss. This will be over with comical speed.

 

I do like the idea of this chapter in terms of gameplay. So much of fire emblem involves enemy phasing enemies weaker than your units, it's nice to fight an elite squad that have equal numbers to your own units with comparable stats.

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

.

 

 

...the game now has Validar talk about the second part of the titanic horseshit that is the Fire Emblem retcon. Apparently not only is the completed Fire Emblem used for powering up Falchion (something Falchion never actually needed before, may I remind you), but it can also be used to resurrect Grima. Something it obviously would have never been built with the intention of doing.

Fuck this. I hate this. I just want this to be over to I can have some fun playing Fates. Anything would be more fun than this. Probably even Revelation!

...Apparently Validar carries “the blood of the fell dragon” inside him, just like Alexandria does. Is this some sort of Genealogy-style holy blood thing?

 

So just bringing up again now we're at the appropriate time that Robin's mother must have been the whitest gal in the world for Robin to inherit none of Validar's skin tone. And the fix for that, giving a skin tone option in the character creation, would have been nice for other reasons too.

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

 

Meaning that if Lucina did in fact reach teenage years by the time Chrom died like half of the game is insinuating, then... well remember, Chrom's roughly 21 after the timeskip. Meaning that in the bad future, Chrom is something like 36 at the youngest when he dies, and yet in that premonition at the beginning of the game, he looks fucking identical to now.

Bear in mind the game also has a three year time skip itself in which Ricken doesn't age visibly at all despite being a child.

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

And also, Grima reveals that literally the bad guys' entire plan so far has been pointless, because Grima could have been revived with human sacrifice without the Fire Emblem's help, and he never told Validar.

HOOOOOOOOLY SHIT.

 

Wait really? There was literally a way to revive Grima from the start that Grima just didñt bother to tell Validar about!?

[Ottservia]

35 minutes ago, Maof06 said:

At the same time, this scene also develops Robin. The entire bad future happened because Robin did not develop bonds strong enough to withstand Grima. Chrom himself states that their bonds are stronger in this dimension, which is why Robin eventually resists the brainwashing. The difference between the original timeline and this timeline? The presence of the future children. It’s not a stretch to imagine that Robin managed to create stronger ties to this place thanks to having married and bonded with their family. Therefore, Lucina traveled back in time to prevent her future from happening and ended up doing it by making Grima’s avatar fall in love with her. Thus, Robin gathers the will to challenge his destiny a second time because of her.

Honestly what I like about the future kids and what they represent thematically in regards to awakening’s narrative is that they are essentially a living breathing reminder that Chrom and the shepards failed. If they hadn’t failed the first time these kids would never have had to suffer. Chrom even admits this when he says “You deserve better from me than one sword and a world of troubles”. And even when you look at a lot of the parent child supports they’re almost all about trying to reconcile with that failure. Cordelia, Sumia, and Cherche failed to keep their promises to come back. Nowi failed to be there for Nah so she could actually have a childhood. Tharja failed to be the loving mother Noire needed. This is even expanded on in the future past DLC where a lot of the conversations involve the kids not wanting their parents to be involved because they don’t want a repeat of what happened in the past. It all just ties back to that theme of overcoming the past that awakening has going for it. Lucina in this scene is desperate as to not repeat the same mistakes that lead to her dark future, she’s willing to kill the avatar/her mother/her lover instead of believing them like she should. And she’s proven wrong in the end. By having faith in Robin and herself, they are able to change the future. They are able to change fate by believing in the bonds they share.

[Emperor Hardin]

19 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Wait really? There was literally a way to revive Grima from the start that Grima just didñt bother to tell Validar about!?

Yeah, 

Spoiler

involving timetravel with the Grima of the future puppet-ting the Grima of the present, its weird and how Grima regularly fights wouldn't be answered until the Future Past DLC.

 

[Alastor15243]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Wait really? There was literally a way to revive Grima from the start that Grima just didñt bother to tell Validar about!?

Yep. Robin reveals the Gemstones are fake, so the ritual to revive Grima that Validar was trying to do couldn't work. But then after Validar dies, the Hierophant, bad future Robin, just shows up and says "Ha, I don't need the Fire Emblem! All I needed was the human sacrifice part of the ritual!"

...So why didn't you tell Validar that years ago!?

Edited January 5, 2021 by Alastor15243

[Axie]

19 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yep. Robin reveals the Gemstones are fake, so the ritual to revive Grima that Validar was trying to do couldn't work. But then after Validar dies, the Hierophant, bad future Robin, just shows up and says "Ha, I don't need the Fire Emblem! All I needed was the human sacrifice part of the ritual!"

...So why didn't you tell Validar that years ago!?

*war flashbacks of nergal opening the dragon's gate without ninian or nils in blazing blade endgame*

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yep. Robin reveals the Gemstones are fake, so the ritual to revive Grima that Validar was trying to do couldn't work. But then after Validar dies, the Hierophant, bad future Robin, just shows up and says "Ha, I don't need the Fire Emblem! All I needed was the human sacrifice part of the ritual!"

...So why didn't you tell Validar that years ago!?

Well does Grima actually say he didn't tell Validar about it? It's possible Validar did know but just chose to do this method...course that still leaves completely unexplained why the two of them didn't just do as soon as Gangrel was deposed and they got control of the country. What lets them sacrifice a bunch of their zombified citizens now and not years before?

Edited January 5, 2021 by Jotari

[Alastor15243]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well does Grima actually say he didn't tell Validar about it? It's possible Validar did know but just chose to do this method...course that still leaves completely unexplained why the two of them didn't just do as soon as Gangrel was deposed and they got control of the country. What lets them sacrifice a bunch of their zombified citizens now and not years before?

Yeah especially since they managed to summon everyone to sacrifice themselves in a trance even without the real Gemstones.

[Samz707]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yep. Robin reveals the Gemstones are fake, so the ritual to revive Grima that Validar was trying to do couldn't work. But then after Validar dies, the Hierophant, bad future Robin, just shows up and says "Ha, I don't need the Fire Emblem! All I needed was the human sacrifice part of the ritual!"

...So why didn't you tell Validar that years ago!?

Because how else would the devs have Robin pull that 5D chess move?

Seriously though, Chrom even states he feels the energy of that one stone earlier, how the heck would Robin get a convincing fake that even gives out a similar energy to the real thing? I'd imagine that'll take weeks at least but it feels like we go and kill Walhart in about a few days at most and Robin apparently got a convincing fake of every single stone.

Not to mention Grima can just mind control all of the Grimleal now? Why not just have every single villager in Plegia body-pile the shepards? I don't think they could take that many people even unarmed at once.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Samz707

[Alastor15243]

4 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Seriously though, Chrom even states he feels the energy of that one stone earlier, how the heck would Robin get a convincing fake that even gives out a similar energy to the real thing? I'd imagine that'll take weeks at least but it feels like we go and kill Walhart in about a few days at most and Robin apparently got a convincing fake of every single stone.

They say the switch happened after that. Basilio gave the real one and then somehow got in touch with Robin later without ever being found out.

[Samz707]

24 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

They say the switch happened after that. Basilio gave the real one and then somehow got in touch with Robin later without ever being found out.

Wait so did they already plan to swap the gems before hand or what? because if not then it's even more implausible they got perfect fakes on such short notice.

[Alastor15243]

Awakening Day 17: Chapter 24

Okay, here's how it's going to go: I'm going to get to the final chapter today, and on Friday I'm gonna finish it (it'll only take 2 turns) and then make my ranking. So on Wednesday and Thursday, I'll do whatever two or three DLC chapters or paralogues were most requested the day before. I'll do as much as I can, but I want to be done with this game by the end of this week.

So, with that out of the way, let's...

...venture to Mount Prism.

...Which is a huge and sacred mountain...

...on the part of the continent...

...that used to be... the tiny, humble island nation of Talys.

...Fuck this game.

...Yeah oh my god this is way too fucking huge to be Talys. There's a fucking waterfall on the island and when you look off the cliff, while the back half of the view is obscured by mist and distance, there is sooooooooooooo much land below this mountain.

As for the map itself... this is just a huge plain with forests scattered about and tons of mounted and flying enemies all over. No time for subtlety, I'm soloing with Alexandria and her children again.

Let's go.

I've given Chrom a brave sword in the hopes of him having a better chance of getting some kills. It would be great if I could at least promote him to paladin or great knight before the endgame for some buffed pair-up bonuses. Hopefully the fact that he'll be doing more damage to these high-res-but-low-def enemies than Alexandria will with her tomes means he'll score a finishing blow or two.

...It definitely seems to have helped. Not just with getting Chrom kills, but with getting kills in general. Man, Alexandria really needs to get ignis. One more level...

So I've basically been ending every turn on forts for the defense, healing, evasion, and reinforcement-blocking, galeforcing back to them after attacking enemies to lessen the enemy-phase load, because there's a real chance that these guys could be killed if they get too unlucky with these 50%-ish hit rates on them. Thankfully I didn't leave the fort to attack with Alexandria this time, because she failed to kill thanks to some aegis procs despite her using Mjölnir. I was lucky that tome didn't break on enemy phase. It lost two of its four remaining uses. Could've easily been all four.

Plus side, Alexandria finally got ignis just now! First time she had it, she procced it, critted, and then then the enemy got aegis so Chrom could just barely finish him off with a single brave sword hit.

Alright, we're done. Now for the cutscene with Naga. The first time she's ever appeared in her visibly-female form. I mean, at least as Naga. She did appear as Nagi before, but...

Yep, and this is where Naga says she's “no god”, which doesn't explain why she's allowed people to worship her as one and let one of the dragons she's in direct communication with build a religion out of her in foreign nations.

Yeah, and this is when they mention that Grima can't be destroyed, and we can only put him to sleep for another thousand years. The only way to kill Grima is with his own power.

Hmmm...

HMMMMMMMM...

Alright, so, I sold a shitton of weapons from the weapon types I no longer even have any use for, and managed to get plenty of gold to get Chrom a second, forged brave sword, with +5 might and +15 hit. He's at level 9 now with 34 experience, so hopefully I can get him promoted today.

So let's continue.

 

Day 17 Bonus: Chapter 25

Yeah, so, Alexandria suggests that she kills Grima rather than Chrom, so that Grima's destroyed for good. Naga tells her this would be at the cost of her own life.

...Unless the power of friendship saves her.

No, for those of you who are just reading this without playing the game, I am not joking. She actually says that maybe the bonds she's forged with the people of this world will tether her there even after Grima's death.

It's annoying that this talk between Chrom and Alexandria about the possibility of sacrificing herself to stop Grima forever... doesn't change if they're married. They talk exactly the same whether they're husband and wife or just close friends.

Also, the game asks you whether or not to promise not to sacrifice yourself, but it means nothing but a single line. You can change your mind later, or I guess reveal yourself to have been lying or something.

...Oh fuck. There are warriors here. And they have counter, because they're high enough level to have that innately, so I don't think they ever won't have it.

And there are forts basically everywhere and I have no clue what's gonna come out of them.

I think I'm going to rush this.

...The enemies here are getting really brutal. Really pushing the limits of what Alexandria and her kids can handle. But I should be able to survive long enough to fight Aversa at least. And Chrom did in fact make it to level 10, so I'll promote him the second we get to the world map again.

Paladin. Alexandria needs the speed bonus more than she needs the mov bonus.

...Alright, I just made it to Aversa and one-rounded her thanks to Balmung and ignis. Chrom's Blue Death forged brave sword attacks would've been able to make the difference between victory and defeat as well. And I've gotta say, there's something frankly ridiculous about watching Aversa fly off her mount backwards and then fall face-and-tits-first into the ground with her spine still bent backwards from the flip.

So at the end, Naga says she can help us GET UP ON THE GRIMA'S BACK!

...so we can attack his weakness at the nape of his neck.

And of course, as Sam said, all Grima's gonna have to do to win this upcoming battle is DO A BARREL ROLL!

But he won't.

And... wow. That's it for today. I don't think I have enough time to do any of the paralogues or xenologues before I go, but... wow, this barely spans three pages.

But oh well. Guess that leaves more time for discussion and voting. Remember: starting when I post this, you have until around 8-ish EST tomorrow morning to vote and make your case for which extra chapters I should do tomorrow, and the same deadline 24 hours later for the next day's extra chapters too. I'll be reading what you say and make my decision by the time I start tomorrow.

Good luck!

Stay safe, everyone!

[Eltosian Kadath]

 

15 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

...Yet again the game is flip-flopping on when Chrom died. Now Lucina says she only has memories of him from when she was little. Which explains the whole “having Falchion” thing, but not the “it is also your turn to die” and the shock that her parents are dead and the fact that she said she started to fight back under the name of Marth as soon as Grima returned, which couldn't have been when she was little.

Only having memories from when she was little has some more issues with how she learned her distinctive sword-fighting techniques from her father...

 

15 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

An why do they talk like Gangrel's death would drive the people of Plegia into despair when they abandoned him to die in the end because he was a piece of shit? Are they saying the knew for a fact that Chrom would do nothing to help the rebuilding process?

Alternatively the game could have treated the harsh monetary war reparations that the Feroxi offhandedly joke about earlier in the plot with the seriousness it deserves...

 

8 hours ago, Maof06 said:

She eventually yields, but this is an important character moment because she chooses her heart over the world, which she never would have done before.

15 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

...Yeah. That's the issue with this scene. Too few changes in the leadup. The focus is still on the fact that Chrom needs to live, and not that Grima has to be stopped. This isn't what she's willing to do to save the world. This is what she's willing to do to save her father. Meaning she's blatantly playing favorites with her parents and the game doesn't even acknowledge it.

If Alartor's insight here holds, I would say that she is following her heart before trying to save the world by trying to kill Robin to begin with.

 

15 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

...Apparently Validar carries “the blood of the fell dragon” inside him, just like Alexandria does. Is this some sort of Genealogy-style holy blood thing?

Chrom & Lucina having the blood of the Exalt, that grants a visible brand on the body, and allows you to use the mythical weapon of the Falchion, was already a blatant reference to Genealogy style holy blood. Robin, having the Grima brand is even more of a hint that this is the case.

 

Since all this thematic commentary is starting to come out, its as good a place and time as any for some of mine, about the ways Awakening dropped the ball with the two conflicting themes that clash in this final act.

Spoiler

One of the most prevalent, consistent, and obvious themes in Awakening is that fate is inescapable. This comes up repeatedly, starting from the very begining with the very first possible death quote, Chrom's unique death quote against Validar in the battle before the prologue. It is baked into numerous key parts of the plot, with some notable examples being Emmeryn's death (and Lucina's lament about it), Basilio's apparent death, Grima's revival, and in one of the most visceral ways possible, with the infamous choice to let Emmeryn die or not having no impact on the plot. Her fate was inescapable. They reiforce this theme even further by doing it again right here

15 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

But anyway, you get to “choose” whether or not to “accept Lucina's judgment”, and obviously you don't die either way. I'll go with “yes” because that's the game's bigger attempt at drama.

...Yeah needless to say I'm not feeling it like I think I might have once.

by making this all important choice also have no impact on the game. The worst part about this is that they are trying, and utterly failing, to use this as a transition point between two conflicting themes, as "the power of bonds" is supposed to overcome the inescapable fate (or at the very least that is what they are building up to). They even try something clever here where an S support with Chrom/Lucina impacts how this scene plays out together with the choice, but neither the choice, nor the power of bonds has any tangible impact on the end result. The game is clearly showing us that the power of bonds is not enough to overcome fate. Despite this the game will pretend that they can, while bungling the buildup that might make it so. For this scene, one solution here would be to make this have some form of impact on the plot further down the line (or more dramatically the possibility of a bad ending), but they could have made this work even with less drastic optiosn. Something simple that shows this had a lasting impact, like getting an item (or better yet diffent items based on the version and/or choice), unlocking a skill, or some small visual addition (like adding a scar to Robin's face) would work to show that bonds can have some impact on fate. They continue bungling the relationship between these two themes with

16 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

...Well, the premonition cutscene repeats, and then the reveal happens that Basilio's still alive, that the Fire Emblem stones are fake, and that Alexandria faked Chrom's death in the cutscene (all of which would have been really satisfying if the plan weren't blatant nonsense; how exactly did Alexandria communicate with Basilio while she was being watched?). And Basilio and Flavia finally become playable.

the big reveal with Basilio. With this reveal they show that the bonds between Chrom and Robin aren't what save Chrom, its that Basilio swapped the ords, so Validar lacks the power to fully takeover Robin.

Quote

Validar
With the five Gemstones in hand, my magic knows no bounds. Robin is powerless to resist me. Do you see now, Son/Daughter? Human bonds are leaves in the wind. They offer you nothing.

They could have made the bonds between Chrom and Robin what saved him, by adding a bad ending (or having Lucina take over Chrom's role in the story after his death) if they don't have a high enough support levels. Instead the day is saved, and fate is changed by a character you have never had control over, whom can only support with Robin, and whom couldn't form said support before the power of his yet to be formed bond lets him save the day. Further more this was the execution of a plan that neither Robin, nor Chrom felt their bond with Lucina was strong enough to share it with her beforehand.

I think I will pause this thought here, as this would otherwise continue on past where Alastor has gotten in this game.

 

[Alastor15243]

6 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Only having memories from when she was little has some more issues with how she learned her distinctive sword-fighting techniques from her father...

Oh shit, yeah, I forgot about that! Excellent point!

As for the stuff you said about the themes of the story... I unfortunately have no comment. Discussion of themes isn't something I've ever been a fan of.

[Interdimensional Observer]

13 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

It might be fun in the other games though. But weirdly I don't know if any of them could get away with it in quite the same tone that Days of Ruin did, even though I don't feel its existence ruined Days of Ruin's tone like I'm concerned it would ruin Fire Emblem's. Weird how that is. I can't really put my finger on why I suspect that.

I think I can understand this. Does it say that the game you like something in, did it with a certain delicacy that is so precisely balanced, that attempting to replicate it elsewhere could end up in all likelihood failing? "Lightning doesn't strike twice", so it goes.

 

28 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

For this scene, one solution here would be to make this have some form of impact on the plot further down the line (or more dramatically the possibility of a bad ending), but they could have made this work even with less drastic optiosn. Something simple that shows this had a lasting impact, like getting an item (or better yet diffent items based on the version and/or choice), unlocking a skill, or some small visual addition (like adding a scar to Robin's face) would work to show that bonds can have some impact on fate.

Mila was "sealed" in the Gaiden Falchion! A bit of Robin aka Grima's life force ends up in Lucina's Falchion as a result of this scene and thus it gains the power to kill Grima permanently because Robin has already shown the willingness to die for a greater cause in having made this decision! Insta Good Ending+, BOOM!

 

28 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Unless the power of friendship saves her.

No, for those of you who are just reading this without playing the game, I am not joking. She actually says that maybe the bonds she's forged with the people of this world will tether her there even after Grima's death.

I wish Pikachu never cried.😛

I've seen uh, possibly more outlandish use of the power of bonds before. As in "the friendships and personal growth along their entire adventure of several individuals is sufficient to reset things to a specific point back in time because things in the present timeline have ended not so well". Although, is it bad if I sorta liked that scenario? It helps that said story continued after the rewind and, perhaps unintentionally, implied friendship can be bad, but wanting help is good at the same time.

 

18 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

As for the stuff you said about the themes of the story... I unfortunately have no comment. Discussion of themes isn't something I've ever been a fan of.

I'm not against themes or discussions of theme, but I'm in general agreement here. Themes, barring the most obvious, can be summarized with the question "Did you love this game?". Themes may be more prevalent and more poignant if you love the game for reasons other than themes, if you really disliked the game, I can imagine you'll cry BS at the presence of themes and if they do exist you'll say they're akin to excrement in terms of execution. Themes are something of a "subjective cherry on top" one might be able to say.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Interdimensional Observer

[Alastor15243]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'm not against themes or discussions of theme, but I'm in general agreement here. Themes, barring the most obvious, can be summarized with the question "Did you love this game?". Themes may be more prevalent and more poignant if you love the game for reasons other than themes, if you really disliked the game, I can imagine you'll cry BS at the presence of themes and if they do exist you'll say they're akin to excrement in terms of execution. Themes are something of a "subjective cherry on top" one might be able to say.

It's almost like you took the words out of my mouth. Discussing themes in a movie can be interesting, especially when it makes you notice stuff you didn't before, but whenever I see people talk about themes as part of an argument for why a movie is brilliant and profound, I have never, ever, ever been convinced by that. It's just a non-starter for me when trying to argue that a story is good. Because the themes often aren't noticed until after you've already experienced the media, and sometimes not even then. Thus they're basically irrelevant to my initial enjoyment of it, and if I didn't already enjoy it, it's not going to add much to repeated viewings.

[Jotari]

I doubt Chrom is strong enough to fight Whalhart to recruit him in his paralogue...unless you feel as if you're up to that challenge.

[Samz707]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

...Unless the power of friendship saves her.

No, for those of you who are just reading this without playing the game, I am not joking. She actually says that maybe the bonds she's forged with the people of this world will tether her there even after Grima's death.

It's annoying that this talk between Chrom and Alexandria about the possibility of sacrificing herself to stop Grima forever... doesn't change if they're married. They talk exactly the same whether they're husband and wife or just close friends.

 

The power of friendship! the best completecopout plot device ever.,

I think it can work, but that's in stuff like FE7,where it's A: not beaten over your head with a Devil Axe and B: the "power" is just good ol' teamwork rather than plot-contrivance, AKA the "power" is good ol' working together and trusting in each other.

Meanwhile Awakening has a copout plan that Robin told literally no one else before hand aside from Basillo I think and requires us to not know what our POV character, who is used to self-insert as us (Quite literally a back on the box thing if I remember) is up to. 

Seriously did Alternative Universe Robin not care about Chrom and the others enough? Did they actually use the Fire Emblem to summon Grima that time? 

WAIT

You kill Validar and Grima saves him, did Validar just not die in the first timeline? I have many questions.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Samz707

[Ottservia]

53 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

It's almost like you took the words out of my mouth. Discussing themes in a movie can be interesting, especially when it makes you notice stuff you didn't before, but whenever I see people talk about themes as part of an argument for why a movie is brilliant and profound, I have never, ever, ever been convinced by that. It's just a non-starter for me when trying to argue that a story is good. Because the themes often aren't noticed until after you've already experienced the media, and sometimes not even then. Thus they're basically irrelevant to my initial enjoyment of it, and if I didn't already enjoy it, it's not going to add much to repeated viewings.

I would disagree with this simply because themes are pretty much the sole reason why stories are made to begin with. Art is a form of expression and storytelling is no different in that regard. The only reason art exists at all is to present ideas and emotions in order to express one’s views on reality. This is true of any art form. Themes are simply a story’s way of expressing those ideas. Everything in a story is in service to those themes. Again this is true of any art form. Look at any painting, drawing, music piece, etc. when you break these things down you’ll notice that every little aspect of it is in service to a specific goal. For example, slow piano pieces might sound somber and hit at more sad emotions. Where as a fast electric guitar is gonna feed more energetic and upbeat. In both cases that’s very much point. The music is supposed to make you feel a certain way as you listen to it. Storytelling no matter what the medium is no different. The writers want you to take something away from their story and every aspect of that should be in line with that message. It’s why we’re able to make these thematic connections and draw these conclusions. Art exists to allow artists to express themselves and their ideas. That’s only reason art exists at all so deny those things as a core part of the experience is to deny why art exists in the first place.  

[Samz707]

8 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I would disagree with this simply because themes are pretty much the sole reason why stories are made to begin with. Art is a form of expression and storytelling is no different in that regard. The only reason art exists at all is to present ideas and emotions in order to express one’s views on reality. This is true of any art form. Themes are simply a story’s way of expressing those ideas. Everything in a story is in service to those themes. Again this is true of any art form. Look at any painting, drawing, music piece, etc. when you break these things down you’ll notice that every little aspect of it is in service to a specific goal. For example, slow piano pieces might sound somber and hit at more sad emotions. Where as a fast electric guitar is gonna feed more energetic and upbeat. In both cases that’s very much point. The music is supposed to make you feel a certain way as you listen to it. Storytelling no matter what the medium is no different. The writers want you to take something away from their story and every aspect of that should be in line with that message. It’s why we’re able to make these thematic connections and draw these conclusions. Art exists to allow artists to express themselves and their ideas. That’s only reason art exists at all so deny those things as a core part of the experience is to deny why art exists in the first place.  

Doom hardly had a story.

Duke Nukem 3D's story is just "Save the babes by stopping those alien freaks!" there's not  really a greater theme, it's just there to kill dudes.

Fire Emblem Heroes (at least in book 1 which I'm at) also basically has a small excuse plot for why you're beating up characters from the games, to the point where the game basically intentionally avoids dwelling on anything. (like the fact our heroes technically still die or how everyone is very sorta chill with the fact they're being forced to fight.)

A story can carry themes but not every story is a "Story".

Edited January 5, 2021 by Samz707