New Heroes Arrive! Dark Burdens (May 8th)

[Jave]

12 minutes ago, Othin said:

Yeah, Celica is the oddball. At this point she looks about as fitting at 5* as half the Gen 1 5* pool.

Heck, she's completely outclassed by Regular Celica (who to this day is Top Tier)

[IEatLasers]

IS isn’t going to do many Chrom alts. Idk why. In Japan Chrom is looked at as a mascot. Huge cipher representation, a lot of merchandise, incredible popularity, KT picked him for warriors first, literally the first character they ever modeled was Chrom (hence why his warriors model is better than his smash model) 

 

and yet...

heroes doesn’t even give him an 8 bit accessory 

[NSSKG151]

2 hours ago, IEatLasers said:

IS isn’t going to do many Chrom alts. Idk why. In Japan Chrom is looked at as a mascot. Huge cipher representation, a lot of merchandise, incredible popularity, KT picked him for warriors first, literally the first character they ever modeled was Chrom (hence why his warriors model is better than his smash model) 

 

and yet...

heroes doesn’t even give him an 8 bit accessory 

A lot of Lords don't have an 8 bit accessory available yet. And Chrom is most likely going to get a Duo alt sometime in the future, probably with Emmeryn.

Edited May 10, 2020 by NSSKG151

[Othin]

19 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

IS isn’t going to do many Chrom alts. Idk why. In Japan Chrom is looked at as a mascot. Huge cipher representation, a lot of merchandise, incredible popularity, KT picked him for warriors first, literally the first character they ever modeled was Chrom (hence why his warriors model is better than his smash model) 

 

and yet...

heroes doesn’t even give him an 8 bit accessory 

Chrom has 5 versions so far, which is already a ton. He's tied with Marth, Hector, Ephraim, Ike, Lucina, and Azura, and the only ones who have more right now are Lyn and Camilla. (Also Tiki, Robin, and Corrin if you combine their versions.)

8-bit accessories are even more exclusive. Aside from the Heroes OCs, the only characters who've gotten one yet are Marth, Leif, Roy, Ike, Lucina, Edelgard, and Claude. They're definitely going to add more over time, and I think it's pretty safe to say that all the leads who already had 8-bit versions featured in the mini Feh Channel (which includes Chrom) will be among them.

If "5 or less versions and no 8-bit accessory right now" is your criteria for being snubbed, that includes Alm, Celica, Eliwood, Hector, Eirika, Ephraim, Micaiah, and Azura. That does not seem right to me.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Othin

[IEatLasers]

3 minutes ago, Othin said:

Chrom has 5 versions so far, which is already a ton. He's tied with Marth, Hector, Ephraim, Ike, Lucina, and Azura, and the only ones who have more right now are Lyn and Camilla. (Also Tiki, Robin, and Corrin if you combine their versions.)

8-bit accessories are even more exclusive. Aside from the Heroes OCs, the only characters who've gotten one yet are Marth, Leif, Roy, Ike, Lucina, Edelgard, and Claude. They're definitely going to add more over time, and I think it's pretty safe to say that all the leads who already had 8-bit versions featured in the mini Feh Channel (which includes Chrom) will be among them.

If "5 or less versions and no 8-bit accessory right now" is your criteria for being snubbed, that includes Alm, Celica, Eliwood, Hector, Eirika, Ephraim, Micaiah, and Azura. That does not seem right to me.

In reference to being the main character of awakening yet having Less than Robin and lucina, his two side characters who further  his story.  And the 8bits, again Chrom is the main character but lucina got hers first. 
 

I’m not saying Chrom got the worst treatment or anything just that, as the main character, he’s kinda stepped in in Heroes despite not being in other games whether from Nintendo, or third party, other games tend to favor Chrom more 

[Jotari]

19 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

In reference to being the main character of awakening yet having Less than Robin and lucina, his two side characters who further  his story.  And the 8bits, again Chrom is the main character but lucina got hers first. 
 

I’m not saying Chrom got the worst treatment or anything just that, as the main character, he’s kinda stepped in in Heroes despite not being in other games whether from Nintendo, or third party, other games tend to favor Chrom more 

Robin only really has one alt. The split gender thing is an inevitability as there's two different characters there, meanwhile Robin's fallen variation is literally a different person. As in the character, on screen, self-identifies as Grima and not Robin. Why they went and called him Robin is baffling to me, but it's not Robin, it's Grima. Really Robin is the one getting snubbed there considering their relative popularity. Even if you include every unit in the game listed as Robin to be the same character (which they're not), they're only ahead of Chrom by one unit.

Also Chrom has the same number of alts as Lucina. So not sure what you're going for there.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Jotari

[IEatLasers]

Maybe I misremembered lucina; I thought there was a 6th 

 

legendary, marth, regular, brave, spring 

 

oh I was thinking summer, which is cipher not heroes. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by IEatLasers

[Jotari]

22 hours ago, IEatLasers said:

Maybe I misremembered lucina; I thought there was a 6th 

 

legendary, marth, regular, brave, spring 

 

oh I was thinking summer, which is cipher not heroes. 

Oh yeah, just while the idea's in my head, if we count alts as literally the number of characters in the game with that name, which is the only way to say Robin has more alts than Chrom as two of Robin's alts are Grima, then Lucina actually has less alts than Chrom as one of her's is labelled Marth. So Chrom can either have more alts than Lucina and less than Robin, or as many as Lucina, but more than Robin.

[IEatLasers]

On 5/10/2020 at 8:00 PM, Jotari said:

Oh yeah, just while the idea's in my head, if we count alts as literally the number of characters in the game with that name, which is the only way to say Robin has more alts than Chrom as two of Robin's alts are Grima, then Lucina actually has less alts than Chrom as one of her's is labelled Marth. So Chrom can either have more alts than Lucina and less than Robin, or as many as Lucina, but more than Robin.

I think the difference between Marth lucina and Grima Robin are fairly clear. 

[Jotari]

As are the similarities between them, which is that both of them are labelled by the game with a name they don't self identify with.

[IEatLasers]

Grima is Robin possessed 

 

‘Marth’ is Lucina in a disguise
so Grima is Robin, and ‘Marth’ is Lucina 

you can also check their character codes with Chrom being 1301 and all his alts being adjacent to him. 
Robin is 1302 with Grima right with his alts. 
Lucina is 6901 (because they didn’t know where to label the future children) with ‘marth’ alt adjacent to her. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by IEatLasers

[Jotari]

42 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

Grima is Robin possessed 

 

‘Marth’ is Lucina in a disguise
so Grima is Robin, and ‘Marth’ is Lucina 

you can also check their character codes with Chrom being 1301 and all his alts being adjacent to him. 
Robin is 1302 with Grima right with his alts. 
Lucina is 6901 (because they didn’t know where to label the future children) with ‘marth’ alt adjacent to her. 

I can't see the code so that's no argument at all. Fallen Robin is Grima in mind. Masked Marth is Lucina in mind. If you're going to argue the biology of it then you're still faced with male and female Robin having literal different biological bodies.

[IEatLasers]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I can't see the code so that's no argument at all. Fallen Robin is Grima in mind. Masked Marth is Lucina in mind. If you're going to argue the biology of it then you're still faced with male and female Robin having literal different biological bodies.

I’m arguing that Robin is Robin, and Lucina is Lucina. 
 

Robin is the vessel for Grima. Grima claiming the vessel is sad, but it’s what robins body was made for. Obviously Chrom fights are and stops that, but in the universe where fallen Robin exists, that’s still Robin who fell. 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, IEatLasers said:

I’m arguing that Robin is Robin, and Lucina is Lucina. 

No, you're claiming Robin is Robin, and Marth is Lucina.

2 hours ago, IEatLasers said:

Robin is the vessel for Grima. Grima claiming the vessel is sad, but it’s what robins body was made for. Obviously Chrom fights are and stops that, but in the universe where fallen Robin exists, that’s still Robin who fell. 

Yes, and now that character is called Grima, by name, self identified. The thinking walking acting individual is an entity called Grima.

[IEatLasers]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

No, you're claiming Robin is Robin, and Marth is Lucina.

Yes, and now that character is called Grima, by name, self identified. The thinking walking acting individual is an entity called Grima.

No, I’m not. The body is Robin, the body is lucina. 
the game dentifies them as Robin and lucina. 
Grima is an alternative version of Robin. “Marth” is an alternate lucina. 
 

[Ice Dragon]

34 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

No, I’m not. The body is Robin, the body is lucina. 
the game dentifies them as Robin and lucina. 
Grima is an alternative version of Robin. “Marth” is an alternate lucina. 

Being identified as Marth and being identified as a Lucina alt are not mutually exclusive of each other.

[IEatLasers]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Being identified as Marth and being identified as a Lucina alt are not mutually exclusive of each other.

They are saying that if Grima is Robin alt, “marth” isn’t a Lucina alt. 
 

im saying that’s not the case. 
 

so to this person, they are mutually exclusive. 

[Hilda]

4 hours ago, IEatLasers said:

No, I’m not. The body is Robin, the body is lucina. 
the game dentifies them as Robin and lucina. 
Grima is an alternative version of Robin. “Marth” is an alternate lucina. 
 

i think what Jotari is trying to say is that the Consciousness is different. Possesed Robin(Grima) has a clearly different consciousness then Masked "Marth". Masked "Marth" is still Lucina in her consciousness, while Possessed Robin is an entire differenty entity and not the same person.

Just an example:
Lets say you could store the consciousness/memorys/personality of a person on to a drive and transfer it from one body to another body.
If my consciousness gets transfered from my original body to lets say the body of for example Angelina Jolie.
Am I as a Person myself or am I Angelina Jolie? From the looks i would be her, but from the thought process and decision makeing i would be myself, would you still call that Person Angelina Jolie?

[IEatLasers]

49 minutes ago, Hilda said:

i think what Jotari is trying to say is that the Consciousness is different. Possesed Robin(Grima) has a clearly different consciousness then Masked "Marth". Masked "Marth" is still Lucina in her consciousness, while Possessed Robin is an entire differenty entity and not the same person.

Just an example:
Lets say you could store the consciousness/memorys/personality of a person on to a drive and transfer it from one body to another body.
If my consciousness gets transfered from my original body to lets say the body of for example Angelina Jolie.
Am I as a Person myself or am I Angelina Jolie? From the looks i would be her, but from the thought process and decision makeing i would be myself, would you still call that Person Angelina Jolie?

That gets complicated if you wee the vessel of Angelina Jolie, and your purpose in life was to become Angelina Jolie. 
min that case, you swapped to her would be sad, but it would be what was always supposed to happen. 
 

Chrom changed fate (go figure it’s the purpose of the entire game); but without Chrom having such a heavy hand, even in the light of his own death, Robin becomes Grima because that’s what s/he’s made for. So Grima Robin is just a sad future for Robin, but not a totally separate unit. And the game itself puts them right after Chrom and his alts. Lead character, deuterantagonist, then into side characters; it’s the way every game is coded. Awakening is no different. The developers themselves consider Grima alternate variants of Robin. 
 

if ??? We’re released, or Grima got their own character in dragon form, I’d not call them Robin alts as they aren’t versions of the Robin we know 

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, IEatLasers said:

No, I’m not. The body is Robin, the body is lucina. 
the game dentifies them as Robin and lucina. 
Grima is an alternative version of Robin. “Marth” is an alternate lucina. 
 

Well then if the body is Robin and biology is what you work off of, you'd have to admit that Robin has two separate bodies (one male and one female) and thus still has less alts than Chrom.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, IEatLasers said:

So Grima Robin is just a sad future for Robin, but not a totally separate unit.

Yet Black Knight and Zelgius are considered separate characters, as are the Three Houses masked characters, who don't have the excuse of being from different games.

Fomortiis is also classified as a Lyon alt despite the fact that the two are clearly separate consciousnesses and are not the same being, though they share the same body. (Having never finished Awakening, I do not know if Robin and Grima are two separate consciousnesses or if Robin simply "becomes" Grima.)

Edited May 12, 2020 by Ice Dragon

[IEatLasers]

15 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yet Black Knight and Zelgius are considered separate characters, as are the Three Houses masked characters, who don't have the excuse of being from different games.

Fomortiis is also classified as a Lyon alt despite the fact that the two are clearly separate consciousnesses and are not the same being, though they share the same body. (Having never finished Awakening, I do not know if Robin and Grima are two separate consciousnesses or if Robin simply "becomes" Grima.)

Three houses we can only guess That based off flame emperor, who was released early and is avoiding spoilers to a certain degree. if she were released now, who knows. 
 

formortiis is still using Lyon as a vessel. While it isn’t his fate like it was for Robin, also wasn’t a lone or full powered Formortiis. It’s the dragon using Lyon’s body and energy. 
 

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Well then if the body is Robin and biology is what you work off of, you'd have to admit that Robin has two separate bodies (one male and one female) and thus still has less alts than Chrom.

not really. Because robin’s are one person, just alternate variants of one another. Male to female Robin is as “alt” as “alt” gets. They’re both the same person with the same history and same future. 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, IEatLasers said:

Three houses we can only guess That based off flame emperor, who was released early and is avoiding spoilers to a certain degree. if she were released now, who knows. 
 

formortiis is still using Lyon as a vessel. While it isn’t his fate like it was for Robin, also wasn’t a lone or full powered Formortiis. It’s the dragon using Lyon’s body and energy. 
 

not really. Because robin’s are one person, just alternate variants of one another. Male to female Robin is as “alt” as “alt” gets. They’re both the same person with the same history and same future. 

I agree. I also think Grima is a different person too though, with a separate history and separate future to Robin.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Jotari

[IEatLasers]

13 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I agree. I also think Grima is a different person too though, with a separate history and separate future to Robin.

They’re connected. By blood and fate. 
 

“but chrom is nagas champion” 

but Chrom isn’t a vessel. 

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, IEatLasers said:

They’re connected. By blood and fate. 

Yes, and you can only connect two separate things.