Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[null]

That may be the case, but I'd still say that games like WW and TP hold up far better despite coming only a generation after. Heck, even Majora's Mask holds up better than Ocarina.

[Benice]

IMO GC games have sort of not aged very well, visually speaking. Wii and DS seem to have aged like wine, though.

[Armagon]

5 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Consider what Mario Sunshine and Galaxy are wannabe games of. Right, that would be Mario 64. Probably because it was successful? 

??????

Galaxy is far more linear than 64. And saying that Sunshine and Galaxy are "wannabe 64" games is undermining them a lot.

 

[Lightcosmo]

Just now, Armagon said:

??????

Galaxy is far more linear than 64. And saying that Sunshine and Galaxy are "wannabe 64" games is undermining them a lot.

 

Mechanically. The whole idea of collecting stars is just the core concept of Mario 64. The way Mario moves, most of the tricks he can do. Hell, Galaxy 2 even has a throwback to which game? Right, Mario 64. They chose that for good reason, the game was amazing and people still love it. How is that not aging well?

[null]

6 minutes ago, Benice said:

IMO GC games have sort of not aged very well, visually speaking. Wii and DS seem to have aged like wine, though.

Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, Sunshine, Double Dash, F-Zero, etc. all hold up exceptionally well visually. Third-party games perhaps don't hold up as well, but first-party looks incredible even today, to me at least.

Edited October 19, 2020 by twilitfalchion

[Armagon]

1 minute ago, lightcosmo said:

Mechanically. The whole idea of collecting stars is just the core concept of Mario 64. The way Mario moves, most of the tricks he can do. Hell, Galaxy 2 even has a throwback to which game? Right, Mario 64. They chose that for good reason, the game was amazing and people still love it. How is that not aging well?

You're confusing legacy with aging well. A game can have a good legacy and age terribly. Pokemon Red and Blue have a giant legacy but those games have aged terribly.

[BrightBow]

Wind Waker holding up better then Ocarina? Ehhhhh...

Wind Waker is the most linear Zelda game ever. It's so bad about it, they might as well have changed the key display from decimal to binary, because there is never a single point in the game where you can have more then 1 key in your inventory. To say nothing about actually beating dungeons in a different order and whatnot.

Edited October 19, 2020 by BrightBow

[Armagon]

3 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Mechanically. The whole idea of collecting stars is just the core concept of Mario 64. The way Mario moves, most of the tricks he can do. Hell, Galaxy 2 even has a throwback to which game? Right, Mario 64. They chose that for good reason, the game was amazing and people still love it. How is that not aging well?

You're confusing legacy with aging well. A game can have a good legacy and age terribly. Pokemon Red and Blue have a giant legacy but those games have aged terribly.

[Lightcosmo]

Just now, Armagon said:

You're confusing legacy with aging well. A game can have a good legacy and age terribly. Pokemon Red and Blue have a giant legacy but those games have aged terribly.

I suppose since that it's my time I can see the splendor of those games. But RBY have always had good gameplay, even if it's one of the most busted games you'll ever play. 

1 minute ago, BrightBow said:

Wind Waker holding up better then Ocarina? Ehhhhh...

Wind Waker is the most linear Zelda game ever. It's so bad, they might as well as changed the key display from decimal to binary, because there is never a single point in the game where you can have more then 1 key in your inventory. To say nothing about actually beating dungeons in a different order and whatnot.

This. The sailing alone kills that game.

[Armagon]

1 minute ago, lightcosmo said:

This. The sailing alone kills that game.

Only the GameCube original. The Wii U remake fixes the sailing.

[null]

1 minute ago, BrightBow said:

Wind Waker is the most linear Zelda game ever.

Hm, I'd say that title goes to Skyward Sword, whose overworld is quite possibly the most straightforward in the series' history.

At least WW has a nicely-sized overworld to traverse.

[BrightBow]

Just now, lightcosmo said:

This. The sailing alone kills that game.

The sailing is the best part about the game. It's a genuine open world that is fun to explore.

Problem is that it's entirely disconnected from progressing in the game. Everything that amounts to story progress has to be done in an exact order. ...except for placing the orbs into their pedastals and collecting the Triforce pieces, I suppose.

[Lightcosmo]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Only the GameCube original. The Wii U remake fixes the sailing.

Not really, all they fix is adding a sail that doesnt require you to change the wind direction. Now Master Quest? That was something!

2 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Hm, I'd say that title goes to Skyward Sword, whose overworld is quite possibly the most straightforward in the series' history.

At least WW has a nicely-sized overworld to traverse.

But theres nothing on the map! Just water!

[null]

Just now, BrightBow said:

The sailing is the best part about the game. It's a genuine open world that is fun to explore.

Agreed. Sailing is enjoyable regardless of the version of WW you play.

[Lightcosmo]

And Wind Wakers dungeons are very lackluster, IMO. The puzzles are a bit too simple.

[Sooks]

23 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Compared to most N64 games, it holds up pretty well, but that isn't exactly a high bar to surpass for most games apart from Nintendo 1st party titles. And even Ocarina 64 doesn't hold up that well either.

Glares in iron boots

19 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Heck, even Majora's Mask holds up better than Ocarina.

To be fair, it is pretty hard to hold up better than Majora’s Mask.

5 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

At least WW has a nicely-sized overworld to traverse.

With nothing in it

[null]

There are several islands you can visit for certain items or other side quests. It's not nothing.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Truth be told, I never once finished Wind Waker a veeeeeeeeeeeery pathetic and cowardly me never did the Ghost Ship. Having the Nintendo Power game guide also might've killed the sense of exploration others may have derived joy from. Replaying the game is a little hindered by nitpicky dislike of the start at Godforsaken Fortress.

Though yeah, they should've let you chosen which of the Wind and Earth temples to do first. Choosing between Dragon Roost Cavern and Forbidden Woods would be cool too, but the Grappling Hook is too important and you'd have to tweak Dragon Roost Cavern for the gaining of the Deku Leaf then. Throwing Greatfish Isle into this freedom as a full-fledged town island with a dungeon, while keeping the pearl drop-off for the Tower of the Gods, would be awesome too. But such is a pipe dream.

 

3 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

But theres nothing on the map! Just water!

I think the various eyed-reefs could use a visual overhaul. They're too plain. Not asking for coral everywhere, that'd be weird since it's above water. but these square-shaped atolls could do with some life on them.

[BrightBow]

Ocarina by comparison has a ton of depth. For example you can use the Hookshot on any survive that the game considers wooden. So the Hookshot is not only a necessary key for progress but can also be used to help you scale walls quicker, pull yourself towards the nipples of the statue in the Spirit Temple or whatever.
Meanwhile in Wind Waker, the Hookshot can only ever be used on surfaces where it HAS to be used in order to progress.

And there is a fair amount of freedom in Ocarina too. Not to the same degree as Zelda 1 or even ALttP, but it still plays in an entirely different league then Wind Waker.
The Ice Cavern can be done at any point. The Bottom of the Well can be done at any point after the Forest Temple. The Gerudo Fortress can be done immediately after getting Epona, which can be done immediately after the timeskip.
The Fire Temple can be done before the Forest Temple. The Spirit Temple can be done before the Shadow Temple. The Water Temple can be done before the Fire Temple... there is some stuff there.
Wind Waker doesn't even allow you to nap an item from the Dungeon and progress to the next one without finishing the current one. Majora's Mask was more linear, but it at least allowed you to do that much.

Edited October 19, 2020 by BrightBow

[Lightcosmo]

IMO, the best Zelda games are Seasons/Ages. 

Best dungeons, easily. Great music, creative events. 

 

[null]

Ocarina still has the worst dungeon designs in the 3D games though, imo.

[Lightcosmo]

Just now, twilitfalchion said:

Ocarina still has the worst dungeon designs in the 3D games though, imo.

I'd argue MM's are worse. The mask gimmick really limits puzzle options right off the bat. 

[BrightBow]

Wind Waker has the worst 3D dungeons by a mile. As I said, they are just as linear as the story progression. They may as well be linked together in the straight line for all the difference it makes.

[BrightBow]

The only exception is the Forsaken Fortress, if you even count that one.

It's not only non-linear, but also requires you to properly understand and process it's structure in order to progress. It's actually kind of like a bigger version of the Divine Beasts in BotW in a way.

Of course they ruined that by turning it into a big stealth section and making it practically the first thing you do in that game.

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

IMO, the best Zelda games are Seasons/Ages. 

Best dungeons, easily. Great music, creative events. 

 

Someone else who loves the Oracles! Let us celebrate their greatness! But no dancing, especially not Goron dancing! I might prefer Seasons's simplicity and GBC colorfulness, Ages might overdo it a little on the puzzles, but I still enjoy it.

 

4 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Ocarina still has the worst dungeon designs in the 3D games though, imo.

But Master Quest has all those cow head switches in Jabu Jabu's belly! They're the most "inspired" in all of Zelda!