Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Lightcosmo]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Someone else who loves the Oracles! Let us celebrate their greatness! But no dancing, especially not Goron dancing! I might prefer Seasons's simplicity and GBC colorfulness, Ages might overdo it a little on the puzzles, but I still enjoy it.

 

But Master Quest has all those cow head switches in Jabu Jabu's belly! They're the most "inspired" in all of Zelda!

I love the creativity with the Rod of Seasons and Harp of Ages. I think the changes the seasons make and time travel just add so much depth.

Yes, the goron dancing stinks, big time. 

Wait, the cow thing is neat! XD 

 

[BrightBow]

Ocarina's only real shortcoming is it's combat. It controls well, but enemy design mostly comes down to "wait for your opponent to attack before striking".
Still, there is some depth here. Wolfos for example take critical damage if you hit them in the back, and can be killed with a single jump attack, provided it is well timed. Volvagia can be blasted with arrows while it's flying around, technically allowing you to beat it without using the Hammer at all. Or the Iron Knuckle starting to become vulnerable to a lot more weapons the moment it's armor is destroyed.
Stalfos are the bloody worst, though. No wonder they weren't reused in Majora's Mask.

Edited October 19, 2020 by BrightBow

[null]

Thing is, WW's dungeons may be simple, but they're fun to play through (Forsaken Fortress excluded).

Ocarina's dungeons (as an adult) are mostly tedious or frustrating to deal with, in my experience at least. Shadow and Water Temples are particularly bad for this.

[Sooks]

Wow, I forgot just HOW bad I am at platformers. I’m glad getting a game over doesn’t really do anything because boy will that be happening a lot.... The controls are really sensitive though, and that’s not very helpful.

41 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

There are several islands you can visit for certain items or other side quests. It's not nothing.

It was hyperbole, my friend. Most squares of the map, in my experience, have like one or two islands that can be very tiny with a very minimal reward, barring where you go for the plot. And even then, there’s still a lot of ocean.

34 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Ocarina still has the worst dungeon designs in the 3D games though, imo.

What do you see as wrong with them? If we’re talking about 3D games, Wind Walker’s don’t stick out as super great to me, but it might be worth mentioning that I’ve never played Skyward Sword. It sounds like I’m hating on Wind Waker a lot but I still like it, I had some fun with it after all.

33 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

I'd argue MM's are worse. The mask gimmick really limits puzzle options right off the bat. 

But MM’s dungeons don’t rely on the masks, which I wouldn’t even consider a gimmick but I guess I can see why you would say that.

[Armagon]

8 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Shadow and Water Temples are particularly bad for this.

Bongo Bongo or whatever his name is is a contender for worst Zelda boss tbh.

 

[null]

3 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

It was hyperbole, my friend. Most squares of the map, in my experience, have like one or two islands that can be very tiny with a very minimal reward, barring where you go for the plot. And even then, there’s still a lot of ocean.

Oh, I know. Fair enough. I guess the perception of how dense it is varies from person to person.

4 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

What do you see as wrong with them?

Frustrating design choices. None of the bosses are particularly good, in my opinion. And the dungeons always felt like a chore to complete rather than something I enjoyed completing.

[null]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Bongo Bongo or whatever his name is is a contender for worst Zelda boss tbh.

Yes. Whoever thought it would be a good idea to fight a boss while bouncing on drums did not think that idea through, I’d say.

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Bongo Bongo or whatever his name is is a contender for worst Zelda boss tbh.

 

Agreed.

[Benice]

Then there's me, whose favorite game is Skyward sword, likes Bongo Bongo and least favorite is Twilight Princess. Nice!

[Interdimensional Observer]

27 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

Yes. Whoever thought it would be a good idea to fight a boss while bouncing on drums did not think that idea through, I’d say.

How else do you sell the Hover Boots for a boss battle? Gotta weave the dungeon item into the fight.

And why did they have to make the Hover Boots so darned slippery? I have no memory of that from my childhood, I always kept them on after getting them, thinking them a direct upgrade over the old Kokiri Boots. So come OoT 3D, I was surprised to learn how bad they are.

Bongo Bongo looks awesome at least. Not the worst design for a Wham Bam Rock "disembodied head + disembodied hands" type boss.

 

35 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

What do you see as wrong with them? If we’re talking about 3D games, Wind Walker’s don’t stick out as super great to me, but it might be worth mentioning that I’ve never played Skyward Sword. It sounds like I’m hating on Wind Waker a lot but I still like it, I had some fun with it after all.

Thematically, three of the SS dungeons are neat at least. The Ancient Cistern is a beautiful Buddhist blend of heaven and hell. Gameplay quality of the dungeons is separate from their aesthetics tho', and I forget that.

[Sooks]

9 minutes ago, Benice said:

Then there's me, whose favorite game is Skyward sword, likes Bongo Bongo and least favorite is Twilight Princess. Nice!

Twilight Princess is actually fairly unpopular as far as Zeldas go, at least from what I’ve gathered.

[Benice]

Just now, Sooks1016 said:

Twilight Princess is actually fairly unpopular as far as Zeldas go, at least from what I’ve gathered.

Well, it was the best selling in the franchise until BotW.

That's not to say I dislike TP, though. I'd play it any day of the week.

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Benice said:

Well, it was the best selling in the franchise until BotW.

That's not to say I dislike TP, though. I'd play it any day of the week.

Me too, I actually remember its dungeons being some of the best (I never made it past the Arbiter’s Grounds though) but I no longer have a system that can play it. F

[Interdimensional Observer]

I can say TP's grittier aesthetic isn't my favorite, though there are some pretty places. TP's start is drawn-out too, that a little bit of pain to me, I like the illusion of freedom and snapping to the action. Enemies are too nonthreatening is a criticism I hear of it, besides the limited use of a bunch of its dungeon items- Dominion Rod in particular.

I do remember reading of someone who attempted a "pacifist run" of TP once. Wherein you kill only the enemies you absolutely have to. Annoying probably, but could be fun if you're of the right mind.

...I think I'm gonna watch some Zelda LPs for the dungeons, don't feel like playing them all, but I could use a real refresher.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[Benice]

Just now, Sooks1016 said:

Me too, I actually remember its dungeons being some of the best (I never made it past the Arbiter’s Grounds though) but I no longer have a system that can play it.

I didn't like its dungeons all that much, actually. Arbiter's grounds is terrific IMO, but the rest are eh. The hardest dungeon the game is also the fifth in the game, so that's weird.

For me, Zelda temple design goes:

1. Skyward Sword
2. [Gap because SS is godlike]
3. [^]
4. Wind Waker (HD)
5. Minish Cap
6. Ocarina of Time
7. Breath of the Wild
8. Twilight Princess

To break each down:

Skyward sword is in my opinion simply the best. The temples are super unique, gorgeous, have varying styles, good music and have amazing puzzles. Not a single temple I dislike. They're all amazing.

Wind Waker has simple but fun temples. They generally look neat, have some good gimmicks and are very solid overall.

Minish cap...It's been a while, but I recall a majority of them being really neat and unique. The size gimmick is really cool. Some of the temples were highly unmemorable, though.

Ocarina of Time is eh. Most were pretty good, but the Water temple was no good and the Shadow temple, while neat, was visually unappealing.

Breath of the Wild's divine beasts were cool, but tiny and quite easy. The shrines were also quite good overall, but no fully fledged temples.

Twilight Princess' all feel the same to me, with the exception of Arbiter's grounds and the mansion. Some are really nice, (such as City in the sky) but the rest were largely boring-ish.

 

I shall start running now, before the lynch mob arrives!

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, Benice said:

For me, Zelda temple design goes:

1. Skyward Sword
2. [Gap because SS is godlike]
3. [^]
4. Wind Waker (HD)
5. Minish Cap
6. Ocarina of Time
7. Breath of the Wild
8. Twilight Princess

Hmm.. huh. Minish Cap isn’t a 3D Zelda, so I guess we’re just counting every Zelda we’ve played.

So mine would be:

1. Majora’s Mask (which I see you haven’t played, but everything that has Ocarina has Majora (I believe) so get on that)

2. Ocarina of Time

3. Twilight Princess

4. A Link Between Worlds

5. Breath of the Wild

And broken down (as best I can, it ended up being kind of hard):

All of Majora’s are phenomenal, although there aren’t many, they each have distinct vibes and feels and use the masks juuust enough and I like how some items/progression features (that’s a weird phrase huh) make it so you see some areas you can’t access yet and then come back and you access them, or how some other features make you view the temple in a whole new way (ice arrows and upside down stone tower, mainly).

Ocarina’s are fun of maybe a little on the simple side, but that never detracted from enjoyment. People complain about the water and shadow temples but I enjoy both (only played the remake) so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I don’t even know why people complain about the shadow temple, now that I think about it.

I haven’t played Twilight Princess in quite a bit, but I looked forward to the dungeons each and every time and loved them, especially the lakebed temple and arbiters grounds. Never actually played any of the dungeons after the arbiters grounds, but what I did play was great fun, and if I had a better picture of them, they would probably be above OoT’s. The boss battles are also the best in the series, but I suppose that’s not points toward the dungeons.

A Link Between Worlds’ dungeons always felt too short, but they were surprisingly challenging in Lorule and doing them in any order then is very cool. What’s also cool are a lot of the puzzles, but once again my memory is too foggy to remember why I feel that way. Maybe I should replay one day...

And then we have Breath of the Wild’s gimmicky dungeons with gimmicks that aren’t even fun, and every dungeon feels the same. They’re alright.

[Sooks]

Double posting because I forgot to quote. Go me.

13 minutes ago, Benice said:

I shall start running now, before the lynch mob arrives!

Are you just assuming every opinion of yours is unpopular now

But of course, BotW wasn’t in last place! Get him boys!!

[Benice]

1 minute ago, Sooks1016 said:

Majora’s Mask (which I see you haven’t played, but everything that has Ocarina has Majora (I believe) so get on that)

Sadly no-I played OoT via Virtual Console on my Wii U, and I don't recall Majora's Mask being avaliable.

2 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

I don’t even know why people complain about the shadow temple, now that I think about it.

I didn't play the HD, so maybe they improved it, but in the OG, the temple really hurt to look at.

3 minutes ago, Sooks1016 said:

Majora’s Mask (which I see you haven’t played, but everything that has Ocarina has Majora (I believe) so get on that)

2. Ocarina of Time

3. Twilight Princess

4. A Link Between Worlds

5. Breath of the Wild

Thou hast not played the best game of all time, Skyward Sword?! Fie upon thee!

...Actually, it is a minority that likes it, so maybe don't bother.

[Benice]

Ah, just for the heck of it, I'll rank my Zelda games.

Music:

1. Skyward Sword
2. Wind Waker/Twilight princess tie
3. Ocarina of time
4. Minish Cap
5. BotW

Visuals:

1. Skyward Sword
2. Breath of the wild
3. Wind Waker
4. Minish Cap
5. Twilight princess
6. Ocarina of time

Gameplay:

1. Skyward Sword
2. Wind Waker
3. Minish Cap
4. Twilight Princess/Ocarina of time tie
5. BotW

Story:

1. Skyward Sword
2. Twilight Princess
3. Minish Cap
4. BotW
5. Wind Waker/Ocarina of time tie

Overall:

1. Skyward Sword
2. Wind Waker
3. BotW
4. Minish cap
5. Twilight Princess
6. Ocarina of time.

(Yes, I changed my mind re: Twilight Princess in less tan twenty minutes.)

[Sooks]

6 minutes ago, Benice said:

...Actually, it is a minority that likes it, so maybe don't bother.

I don’t pick my games based on majority opinion unless that opinion is practically unanimous of extreme succ, and this is a first party title of one of my favorite IPs soooo

7 minutes ago, Benice said:

I didn't play the HD, so maybe they improved it, but in the OG, the temple really hurt to look at.

Oh yeah I have no idea about that. Looks like you also had to deal with OG water temple. F.

[null]

If we’re ranking Zelda dungeon design, I’d say:

1. Wind Waker - simple, but great fun to play through every time

2. Breath of the Wild - minimal puzzling, which I like personally

3. Twilight Princess - creative item use and themes, Snowpeak is a standout

4. Skyward Sword - dungeon design is one of game’s few strong points, Ancient Cistern is pretty great

5. Ocarina of Time - meh, tedious design with uninteresting boss battles.

9 minutes ago, Benice said:

I didn't play the HD, so maybe they improved it, but in the OG, the temple really hurt to look at.

If you can emulate Rune Factory 4 and Shadows of Valentia in Citra, you can probably emulate Majora’s Mask 3D. You may want to do that for the QoL fixes.

Edited October 19, 2020 by twilitfalchion

[Sooks]

Just now, Benice said:

Music:

1. Skyward Sword

Visuals:

1. Skyward Sword

Gameplay:

1. Skyward Sword

Story:

1. Skyward Sword

Overall:

1. Skyward Sword

Should I even be surprised?

[Benice]

Just now, Sooks1016 said:

Should I even be surprised?

 

1 minute ago, twilitfalchion said:

If you can emulate Rune Factory 4 and Shadows of Valentia in Citra, you can probably emulate Majora’s Mask 3D. You may want to do that for the QoL fixes.

Oh yeah. I will have to get to that eventually!

[Armagon]

I'll be honest, i've never really thought about ranking Zelda dungeon design so the only thing i can contribute is that Stone Tower Temple in Majora's Mask is the best dungeon in the series because of the visual lore surrounding that place and Ikana Valley as a whole. The one thing i'll never forgive the 3DS remake for changing something is getting rid of all of the implications of Ikana and Stone Tower.

Also the music in Stone Tower is amazing, probably my favorite dungeon theme in the series

 

[Sooks]

8 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Stone Tower Temple in Majora's Mask is the best dungeon in the series because of the visual lore surrounding that place and Ikana Valley as a whole. The one thing i'll never forgive the 3DS remake for changing something is getting rid of all of the implications of Ikana and Stone Tower.

Also the music in Stone Tower is amazing, probably my favorite dungeon theme in the series

 

MAN OF CULTURE!! All of this is the correct opinion, thank you for your time.