Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

This version of the trailer has a Lyn card instead of a Marth card. The evil version has a bunch of spears pointing at her back.

Wonder if it has any meaning.

For Sigurd's, I felt like I could decipher the symbolism. Genealogy spoilers...

Spoiler

The heroic upside of Sig's card has him being crowned with a laurel wreath. Reminding me that he got nobly appointed by the Kingdom of Grannvale as told by Arvis to lead his self-defense & Edain rescue anti-Verdane campaign, and was later likewise formally tasked with the Agustrian occupation.

The inverse down-side of Sig's tarot has fingers accusingly pointing at him. Perhaps referring to what happens at the end of Chapter 3, when he gets branded a traitor. From being crowned a holy warrior, to be accused of treason. Perhaps too or alternatively it refers to him having died and failed (though I saw no reference to Valflame and the accompanying meteors specifically), the most ignominious of outcomes for an FE hero.

For Lyn, her personal story is short, and she was invented for Blazing, so her existence in Binding is null. Do lances merely reflect that as a lord-myrmidon she is easily slain by lances? Does it mean she didn't marry Eli or Hec or both and instead returned to Sacae and died during the Bern invasion to one of those many spear-toting Bernese Wyverns?

23 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

So yeah, Engage very much is a strategy game. What it isn't is a serious war epic. That went out the window when Alear's sweatpants were revealed. I wouldn't worry about the series, though, considering it's 99.99% likely we're headed straight for a FE4 remake right after this. So you guys just hold out until then.

And even were it to turn out it is Ackually Binding B/c Genealogy Is So Tricky To Remake, Binding isn't exactly gingerbread and hot fudge. Certainly a lighter and by-the-numbers story by FE standards, but sober for sure.

14 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

And Lyn-- Oh wait.

Shall I begin work on a corn cultivar that shall produce the best-tasting popped kernels for the specific event of seeing Miss 'dis having aged 20 years (or three days, IDK) come Echoes of Binding?🍿

If she doesn't happen when the time comes, I'll lick clean the hooves of Dayan's horse every day for six months.

 

2 minutes ago, Hectorcopter said:

Also, I’m very much someone who does not fall for baseless rumors, so unless there’s official confirmation or especially good evidence for an FE4 remake, I don’t believe it. Especially since these rumors have been going on for YEARS, ever since SoV released.

Personally, I'm also of the "All rumors are false until proven true" camp. I was that way with the current game and its unbelievable leaks.

SoV is also just one game. While FE1 and FE3 were remade beforehand, the gap between them and SoV is such that we can't say IS has gotten into the remake-churning mindset just yet. The way Pokemon has since Gen 3 with FireRed and LeafGreen continuing to Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl.

A Genealogy remake wouldn't surprise me, especially since IS has via Awakening, FEH, and now Engage given international audiences little glimpses into Jugdral. I think it's fair to say that even if SoV's sales were lackluster (I think they were) compared to Awakening & Fates and 3H, IS is interested in rereleasing/remaking the older games. Since new FEs are selling like hotcakes, IS can surely set a aside a little revenue for "history projects".

[ping]

26 minutes ago, Hectorcopter said:

After seeing the latest trailer, I must say, is this series even still a strategy game?

12 minutes ago, Hectorcopter said:

It was more of a joke. I mostly like how this game is turning out. Although I can’t helped but be reminded of modern Pokémon with those customization options and that dog. Seriously, that dog would fit right in as a Fairy/Dragon type.

I think it's fair to say, just as an observation, that later games have been putting more and more emphasis on the "roleplay" aspect of the gameplay. Until Tellius, you didn't have a whole lot of tools to build your characters apart from leveling them up - stat boosters, branching promotions in Gaiden and SacSto, skill scrolls. More than nothing, but you can't form, say, Bors into a magic-based pegasus rider.  Even in Genealogy with its eugenics, your matchmaking choices only affect how good a child unit will be at its predetermined role, not open any paths into completely new classes.

The DS remakes then are the first games with massive reclassing possibilities, but the only things that a character carries between classes are innate stats and weapon ranks. Awakening and Fates are the first game that really allow characters to dip into another class and pick up skills that way, similar to a pen-and-paper RPG character doing something like drop a level in Monk to get the Crane Stance feat.

1 minute ago, Punished Dayni said:

Lyn's going to be in the BB remake, just you wait.

I'd be curious to see how they would avoid canonising one of her romantic options. IntSys has always been very careful to never sink any ships. Didn't the Awakening kids in Fates have some DLC story in which they go "hey we should all dye our hair because reasons" before they appear on screen?

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, ping said:

I'd be curious to see how they would avoid canonising one of her romantic options. IntSys has always been very careful to never sink any ships. Didn't the Awakening kids in Fates have some DLC story in which they go "hey we should all dye our hair because reasons" before they appear on screen?

I feel this is the sort of thing they'd need to either:

Actually commit to stablishing hard canon (Binding Blade kinda already gated EliwoodxLyn to non-canonicity to a degree, and lately they actually seem to be sticking to their guns with EliwoodxNinian, so the only problem would be Hector).

Employ "clear data bonus/transfer" ala Tellius if you have data from a Blazing Blade remake.

[Saint Rubenio]

10 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

*monkey paw curls*

Put the damned paw down already before I find my plume.

2 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

I am never going to sleep in this game.

To be honest, that glorious line has only hyped me up more for it. Imagine if there's more quality writing like that hiding there. Like Vander comes around and goes "wake up, Divine One, we agreed we would go to the vandor first thing in the morning", or Jade comes around and says "having to wake you up every day's going to make me jaded", or Lapis arrives and says "it's even more late than yesterday, you're just taking la piss now". So many possibilities.

3 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

Lyn's going to be in the BB remake, just you wait.

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Shall I begin work on a corn cultivar that shall produce the best-tasting popped kernels for the specific event of seeing Miss 'dis having aged 20 years (or three days, IDK) come Echoes of Binding?🍿

If she doesn't happen when the time comes, I'll lick clean the hooves of Dayan's horse every day for six months.

Oh abso-fucking-lutely. And she's definitely not going to age half as dramatically as Hector or Eliwood. Gotta maintain the waifuism. In the same game with Niime in it lolololololol

4 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

Gonna be miffed if they just mean metaphorical slaying after this.

Game loses 3 points if they do that. Straight up. After that pun I will refuse to accept it.

[Acacia Sgt]

3 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Game loses 3 points if they do that. Straight up. After that pun I will refuse to accept it.

The ones slayed are the players for expecting otherwise. Trololol got'em

Edited December 15, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Saint Rubenio]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

The ones slayed are the players for expecting otherwise. Trololol gott'em

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

[Interdimensional Observer]

7 minutes ago, ping said:

I think it's fair to say, just as an observation, that later games have been putting more and more emphasis on the "roleplay" aspect of the gameplay. Until Tellius, you didn't have a whole lot of tools to build your characters apart from leveling them up - stat boosters, branching promotions in Gaiden and SacSto, skill scrolls. More than nothing, but you can't form, say, Bors into a magic-based pegasus rider.  Even in Genealogy with its eugenics, your matchmaking choices only affect how good a child unit will be at its predetermined role, not open any paths into completely new classes.

I on some level miss having everyone having fixed classes.

If I run a bunch of characters through an average stat calculator for Fates, placing everyone in the same class, I realize that the stat differences often aren't that big. If I make Hana a Ninja her entire life, she isn't going to terribly functionally different from Kagero. Personal bases and growths often aren't extreme enough to make a huge difference, nor are those cap modifiers ever really truly significant. Personal skills rarely matter all that much either, nor any trivial differences in Supports, and other class access can have some meaning yet usually isn't a huge deal (which with 3H became homogenized anyhow).

By fixing classes, this "realization of sameyness" is avoided. If we compare Sue and Shanna...

Thany

45

30

55

60

60

10

25

Sue

55

30

55

65

50

10

15

These growths are near-identical. 10% takes ten levels to make a 1-point difference. Mind this is a pre-class growths game, and IDK how class bases would affect the 12 vs. 8 base Spd that Shanna and Sue have.

Nonetheless, I am spared the realization that Shanna and Sue if I made them both the same class, would be all too similar and that FE has less "uniqueness" among its characters than it would want you to think.

Character-specific Combat Arts and spell lists are good contributions 3H made for character distinctiveness despite reclassing, but could we have more?🤔

 

13 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Lapis arrives and says "it's even more late than yesterday, you're just taking la piss now"

Like Nintendo would allow that? Although you are reminding me of a rather crude picture I saw a reviewer inexplicably include on Noisypixel for Chained Echoes.

[Acacia Sgt]

30 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

For Lyn, her personal story is short, and she was invented for Blazing, so her existence in Binding is null. Do lances merely reflect that as a lord-myrmidon she is easily slain by lances? Does it mean she didn't marry Eli or Hec or both and instead returned to Sacae and died during the Bern invasion to one of those many spear-toting Bernese Wyverns?

Or maybe the parts of Lycia that reject her for being half-Sacaean? Even if it's minor, being only half-Lycian is one thing that she had to endure grief for. The whole incident with Marquess Araphen being the obvious one, but in her supports it's often brought up how she just can't really take on the Lycian life well and only remains because of her grandfather.

[Saint Rubenio]

29 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah, exactly.

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I on some level miss having everyone having fixed classes.

If I run a bunch of characters through an average stat calculator for Fates, placing everyone in the same class, I realize that the stat differences often aren't that big. If I make Hana a Ninja her entire life, she isn't going to terribly functionally different from Kagero. Personal bases and growths often aren't extreme enough to make a huge difference, nor are those cap modifiers ever really truly significant. Personal skills rarely matter all that much either, nor any trivial differences in Supports, and other class access can have some meaning yet usually isn't a huge deal (which with 3H became homogenized anyhow).

By fixing classes, this "realization of sameyness" is avoided. If we compare Sue and Shanna...

Thany

45

30

55

60

60

10

25

Sue

55

30

55

65

50

10

15

These growths are near-identical. 10% takes ten levels to make a 1-point difference. Mind this is a pre-class growths game, and IDK how class bases would affect the 12 vs. 8 base Spd that Shanna and Sue have.

Nonetheless, I am spared the realization that Shanna and Sue if I made them both the same class, would be all too similar and that FE has less "uniqueness" among its characters than it would want you to think.

Character-specific Combat Arts and spell lists are good contributions 3H made for character distinctiveness despite reclassing, but could we have more?🤔

Yeah, reclassing, as fun as it can be, does make characters less unique overall. We'll have to see how Engage handles it, though, with combat styles and seemingly more restricted reclassing.

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Like Nintendo would allow that? Although you are reminding me of a rather crude picture I saw a reviewer inexplicably include on Noisypixel for Chained Echoes.

I mean, Live a Live contains a barely censored motherfucker, and when I posted about it Armagon told me that Xenoblade also has someone saying bitch a lot, so... I guess, yes.

[BrightBow]

1 hour ago, ping said:

I think it's fair to say, just as an observation, that later games have been putting more and more emphasis on the "roleplay" aspect of the gameplay. Until Tellius, you didn't have a whole lot of tools to build your characters apart from leveling them up - stat boosters, branching promotions in Gaiden and SacSto, skill scrolls. More than nothing, but you can't form, say, Bors into a magic-based pegasus rider.  Even in Genealogy with its eugenics, your matchmaking choices only affect how good a child unit will be at its predetermined role, not open any paths into completely new classes.

Putting characters into whatever class you want with no regards of what makes sense for them is the opposite of roleplaying.

[ping]

1 minute ago, BrightBow said:

Putting characters into whatever class you want with no regards of what makes sense for them is the opposite of roleplaying.

Building and customising a character is a core aspect of RPGs, especially in computer RPGs, and that has been expanded a lot in later FE games. You might disagree with the semantics, but Diablo 2 is considered a "action role-playing hack-and-slash video game" despite not offering a whole lot of "what would my character do in this situation?".

[Saint Rubenio]

It's been brought to my attention that there's another character who isn't among the big 32 that's all but confirmed to be playable. It's... Jan. Yeah, Nino's uncle. In the Japanese Somniel trailer, the person Merrin is "thinking of" during fortune telling, Louis in English, is one "Jan". This Jan isn't in the confirmed cast, playable or otherwise. Also not one of the mentioned country leaders. They're not even seen in the leaks. All we have is the name... and I like that! Seems there's more mysteries left to uncover than you'd think, after all these infodumps.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Saint Rubenio

[BrightBow]

23 minutes ago, ping said:

Building and customising a character is a core aspect of RPGs, especially in computer RPGs, and that has been expanded a lot in later FE games. You might disagree with the semantics, but Diablo 2 is considered a "action role-playing hack-and-slash video game" despite not offering a whole lot of "what would my character do in this situation?".

Sure it is. But level and skill systems are simulation systems. They are supposed to simulate characters getting stronger and more experienced. That's the role they serve for roleplaying games.
If you remove those systems from that context, it has preciously little to do with roleplaying.

I also can't think of many RPGs where characters just forget everything they know as if hit by some weird magic spell. I suppose Baldur's Gate had this sorta going on. If you multiclass a human character, this results in the character losing access to their previous skills until they reach a higher level in their new class. But once they do, they will get those skills back.
It's a silly system, but also something they inherited from 2nd Edition DnD. Not sure what the Coast Wizards were thinking with that system. But it's what the game is using, so it's there.
There also aren't too many characters where multiclassing is even an option. One of them is Imoen. Her multiclassing into mage is something that actually carries over into the sequel and is actually quite a relevant plot detail that causes a lot of trouble early in the game's story.

Edited December 15, 2022 by BrightBow

[Codename Shrimp]

One thing that kinda disappoints me: It seems weapon drawbacks are gone. That was really a GOAT feature in Fates. Then again, not many liked it....

1 hour ago, ping said:

Even in Genealogy with its eugenics, your matchmaking choices only affect how good a child unit will be at its predetermined role, not open any paths into completely new classes.

Something i hope they change with the remake

[Lightcosmo]

Just now, Imperator Squilla said:

One thing that kinda disappoints me: It seems weapon drawbacks are gone. That was really a GOAT feature in Fates. Then again, not many liked it....

Had there not been ANY exceptions, I think it would have been fine.

[Codename Shrimp]

5 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Had there not been ANY exceptions, I think it would have been fine.

The only exceptions in Fates were Iron weapons & Bronze weapons.

Which, ya know, are the weakest weapons MT wise

[BrightBow]

11 minutes ago, Imperator Squilla said:

One thing that kinda disappoints me: It seems weapon drawbacks are gone. That was really a GOAT feature in Fates. Then again, not many liked it....

That's not a Fates-specific feature.

Like, weapon weight was there since the first game. Recoil damage was there since the first game too.

And since Engage has apparently a Con growth, I would imagine weapon weight is back at least.

Edited December 15, 2022 by BrightBow

[Codename Shrimp]

4 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

That's not a Fates-specific feature.

Like, weapon weight was there since the first game. Recoil damage was there since the first game too.

And since Engage has apparently a Con growth, I would imagine weapon weight is back at least.

Fates however didn't just consider Con/Weight/SPD debuffs, but also defence debuffs, right out disabling follow up for 1-2 weapons so no more Hand Axe/Javelin Jagen wiping out everyone ala GBA and Tellius, Effective weapons getting a MT debuffs against non effective targets, etc.

It was a nice system along durability being gone.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 minutes ago, Imperator Squilla said:

The only exceptions in Fates were Iron weapons & Bronze weapons.

Which, ya know, are the weakest weapons MT wise

Bronze couldn't crit, that was a drawback.

You're also ignoring Sieginto (and to lesser extent, Brynyumi), which are limited to one user each admittedly, but contributed to a measure of imbalance those characters possessed.

...Speaking of Fates, sorry I brought the linked run to a screeching halt and never resumed the fun.😥 Would you want to get back to it before Engage? Maybe at the crack of the New Year to set a timeline?

 

38 minutes ago, ping said:

Building and customising a character is a core aspect of RPGs, especially in computer RPGs, and that has been expanded a lot in later FE games.

It's also abundant in ye olde Final Fantasy Tactics and the two FFTAdvance games. Those SRPGs that are decidedly JRPGs-turned-S, whereas FE began either in the middle of S and RPG, or even leaned S. *Throws a Trickster's card imbued with the power of a Gladiator's ultima at the Halve MP cost of a Bishop towards you.*

[BrightBow]

6 minutes ago, Imperator Squilla said:

Fates however didn't just consider Con/Weight/SPD debuffs, but also defence debuffs, right out disabling follow up for 1-2 weapons so no more Hand Axe/Javelin Jagen wiping out everyone ala GBA and Tellius, Effective weapons getting a MT debuffs against non effective targets, etc.

It was a nice system along durability being gone.

They added some nice new effects. But the system itself is nothing new.

...and let's face it, a lot of those effects are just "weapon weight but more complicated".
And might debuff against non-effective targets just means "attack lower then displayed but higher effectiveness multiplier". It's just a normal effective weapon. The only difference is that the displayed Might stat is meaningless, so you have to do more of the math in your head.

Edited December 15, 2022 by BrightBow

[Codename Shrimp]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Bronze couldn't crit, that was a drawback.

Yes and no.

It was a drawback they couldn't crit and activate skills, and had low MT.

But that also means you won't suddenly suffer a succesfail 1% crit that makes your tanking plan go awry (which i honestly didn't use much) and had high hit for those low skl charas.

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Would you want to get back to it before Engage?

I think it might be better if we leave it until we finish Enjeji XD

[Codename Shrimp]

6 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

...and let's face it, a lot of those effects are just "weapon weight but more complicated".

Defense changes, MT debuffs and unit/effect dependant changes are not "weapon weight but more complicated." The only thing weapon weight affected was speed, and only if you didn't migitate it completely anyway.

6 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

It's just a normal effective weapon, just with more complicated math and a might stat that does not mean anything.

Or how it really was: Effective weapons were really strong but only against their suppossed targets, like how they should be.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Imperator Squilla

[Dayni]

2 minutes ago, Imperator Squilla said:

I think it might be better if we leave it until we finish Enjeji XD

We could get it finished in the 36 days I think.

[Codename Shrimp]

Back on the Ys Train?

17 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

We could get it finished in the 36 days I think.

technically? Yes

Realistically? I don't think so. Especially since next week and the week after new year i will be swamped with work

Edited December 15, 2022 by Imperator Squilla