Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Acacia Sgt]

4 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The point could just as easily be you can not change the past, even if you want to.

Yet we got a time travel story, which tend to be about changing the past, or preventing it to be changed depending on what's happier.

4 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Eh, happy endings are a dime a dozen for videogames, would have been nice to see them do something different with it, especially with how many times they reinforce the idea that the timeline can't substantively be changed in the game, until sudden it just can.

The timeline had always been malleable. It's just the characters mistakenly thinking otherwise at first. Changes happened as early as we begin the game with Amseniac!Robin, whose pay-off has to wait almost the entire game, but it ultimately does. Even if some things didn't change, like Emmeryn's "death" (but surprise, she didn't died, so that too changed), having changed how and when it happened, leads to different events (Plegian War ending much sooner than in the original timeline).

[Interdimensional Observer]

This is new.

I mean we already had the Robobot Armor, but still, I like it.😁

Hi-Zol Launchers!

Looks like Mecha Kirby is primarily long-range bombardment type, although the twin launchers also having propulsion would suggest this began as an experimental modification of Jet Kirby -to speak as if Kirby was a mech.😝

While the helmet looks like the Double Zeta, no laser emerges from the middle.

Poyo poyo poyopoyo! Poyo poyo poyo poy! Poyo poyo-ken!🤪

...Just a pinch of burning fists in the moveset. No palm-projectile unfortunately; Fighter already has that, which I think works both as an excuse and anti-excuse why Mecha doesn't have one.

-Oh, and the new Sand Copy Ability is nice too, but I feel like Mecha is more straightforward.

[Acacia Sgt]

Kirby doing guest-appearance in SRW DD when.

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Kirby doing guest-appearance in SRW DD when.

Nintendo needs to stop being so stingy with its IPs.

Here's all of Planet Robobot's Robobot Armor forms.:

Probably not worth using them all/making them all separate units. But this is plenty for DD to compact anyhow.

-What the above vid unfortunately leaves out is the final blow to the final boss.:

 

[Eltosian Kadath]

3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Windows 10 comes with this handy tool called Xbox Game Bar. You press Win+alt+R and it starts recording.

Huh, that is an easier answer than I expect.

 

1 hour ago, Lightcosmo said:

yeah, too bad they focused the storyline on the wrong character. XD

(I would assume this was to avoid making it too similar to FE4?) But really Lucina should always have been the MC. (Also fairly sure the writers expressed disappointment with how her story turned out?)

True, Lucina should have been the main character of Awakening.

 

9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yet we got a time travel story, which tend to be about changing the past, or preventing it to be changed depending on what's happier.

Plenty of time travel stories are about how you can't change the timeline, often in the form of the time-traveler causes what they were trying to prevent (the original Terminator movie is a classic example of that), although that isn't the only way to go about it (the amusing novel To Say Nothing of the Dog comes to mind as an example of that).

 

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The timeline had always been malleable. It's just the characters mistakenly thinking otherwise at first.

It is more than just that the characters telling us that these key events of the timeline can't be changed, the way the player is given a blatant choice that seems like it can change events, but is unable to, is reinforcing the idea far.

 

8 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Changes happened as early as we begin the game with Amseniac!Robin, whose pay-off has to wait almost the entire game, but it ultimately does.

Lucina confirms that Chrom also had a Robin best friend that fought with, betrayed, and killed Chrom in her timeline, with the premonition showing us that even in Lucina's timeline Robin killing Chrom is a mind control based affair. I don't see how this is a substantive change in the timeline at all.

 

8 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

(but surprise, she didn't died, so that too changed),

Pretending the Streetpass maps are anything but nonsense is kind of cute. Multiple blatantly dead characters are arbitrarily made playable, even when they were confirmed killed in both timelines. With both world jumping, and simply being dead both being half-assed explanation for some of these character, and with no explanation at all given for Emmeryn, I don't think you can really say she didn't die in this timeline.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

It is more than just that the characters telling us that these key events of the timeline can't be changed, the way the player is given a blatant choice that seems like it can change events, but is unable to, is reinforcing the idea far.

There's only four moments, and one does change things. This compared to all the more times things do get changed without the player being given a prompt.

Not to mention, those choice are already happening in altered scenarios as the timeline has been changed. The first choice, the one concerning Emmeryn, happens during Chapter 9, whose events never did in the original timeline since she was long dead by that point.

7 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Lucina confirms that Chrom also had a Robin best friend that fought with, betrayed, and killed Chrom in her timeline, with the premonition showing us that even in Lucina's timeline Robin killing Chrom is a mind control based affair. I don't see how this is a substantive change in the timeline at all.

Except in the game, Robin isn't mind controlled, or they manage to break free and not strike Chrom fatally, I forgot how exactly it went. But point is, the timeline does get changed in a big way. It was a plan engineered thanks to Lucina's forewarning, changing Basilio's fate (another big change to the timeline), swapping the shield with a fake one, and precisely Robin having amnesia. Since even though they did became friends, Future!Robin always carried the baggage of being an outsider / Grima's vessel in their mind. Amnesiac!Robin does not, thus turning into a blind spot for Future!Grima's control of them. In essence, the amnesia allowed for Robin to forge stronger bonds than the ones they had in the original timeline as there was nothing holding them back, which combined with Lucina's foreknowledge and earlier changes to the timeline, allowed for fate to be significantly changed. Since now it's Validar and not Chrom who dies.

7 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Pretending the Streetpass maps are anything but nonsense is kind of cute. Multiple blatantly dead characters are arbitrarily made playable, even when they were confirmed killed in both timelines. With both world jumping, and simply being dead both being half-assed explanation for some of these character, and with no explanation at all given for Emmeryn, I don't think you can really say she didn't die in this timeline.

Disregarding what you don't like is equally cute, I suppose.

For its worth, Emmeryn was never confirmed killed, since no one bothered to check her body. Everybody was quick to leave the scene. Or at least, the big players did. It's true no explanation is given, but we're not dumb, we can easily piece it together.

People in real life have survived falls from higher heights than Emmeryn. She also VERY likely fell on sand, which is actually one of the better surfaces to land onto. By its nature, the kinetic force would get distributed over all the individual grains of sand. In addition, Emmeryn would first push the sand downwards if even for a fraction of a second. Combined, it reduces the force of acceleration, which means when it has to go back to Emmeryn through Newton's third law, it will be at a reduced rate from what initially was. The difference might still be small, but it can be enough to cross the crucial threshold between death and survival. It helps to remember Emmeryn didn't came out of it unscathed, so it's not like there wasn't any negative consequence even if she did live. Now it's a matter of someone coming to her side quickly enough, which we can infer is what happened.

Now, I can give you that Emmeryn being sent to an island between Ylisse and Valm and staying there for years might be hard to believe, but her survival isn't what's unusual about her situation. It's unlikely, but not impossible.

[Lightcosmo]

Lucina deserved better than what they give her. Bias speaking, of course! Xd

[Saint Rubenio]

43 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Pretending the Streetpass maps are anything but nonsense is kind of cute. Multiple blatantly dead characters are arbitrarily made playable, even when they were confirmed killed in both timelines. With both world jumping, and simply being dead both being half-assed explanation for some of these character, and with no explanation at all given for Emmeryn, I don't think you can really say she didn't die in this timeline.

14 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Disregarding what you don't like is equally cute, I suppose.

For its worth, Emmeryn was never confirmed killed, since no one bothered to check her body. Everybody was quick to leave the scene. Or at least, the big players did. It's true no explanation is given, but we're not dumb, we can easily piece it together.

People in real life have survived falls from higher heights than Emmeryn. She also VERY likely fell on sand, which is actually one of the better surfaces to land onto. By its nature, the kinetic force would get distributed over all the individual grains of sand. In addition, Emmeryn would first push the sand downwards if even for a fraction of a second. Combined, it reduces the force of acceleration, which means when it has to go back to Emmeryn through Newton's third law, it will be at a reduced rate from what initially was. The difference might still be small, but it can be enough to cross the crucial threshold between death and survival. It helps to remember Emmeryn didn't came out of it unscathed, so it's not like there wasn't any negative consequence even if she did live. Now it's a matter of someone coming to her side quickly enough, which we can infer is what happened.

Now, I can give you that Emmeryn being sent to an island between Ylisse and Valm and staying there for years might be hard to believe, but her survival isn't what's unusual about her situation. It's unlikely, but not impossible.

Funny how this convo happened not long after I wrote this.

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I don't get the obsession with taking their revivals into account with the rest of the plot or the claims of them "ruining the story", either. They're very clearly non-canon, pseudo-postgame extras. As far as I'm concerned, Emmeryn died when she did - the other thing was just a fun "what if" scenario.

[Acacia Sgt]

I mean, it falls to what I said.

You can not like it, but trying to pretend it doesn't exist or say it doesn't count is... jarring. Like, I won't deny I dislike a lot Engage's Fell Xenologue, but I'll do my best to not fall into the hypocrisy of disregarding it. Because reality won't do it for me.

[Saint Rubenio]

29 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I mean, it falls to what I said.

You can not like it, but trying to pretend it doesn't exist or say it doesn't count is... jarring. Like, I won't deny I dislike a lot Engage's Fell Xenologue, but I'll do my best to not fall into the hypocrisy of disregarding it. Because reality won't do it for me.

I mean, I like it. I think it's neat. I just don't think any of it makes much sense in the grand scheme of things.

If anything it's doing the story a favor to disregard it. To have every single villain survive dying, make no attempts at regaining control over their respective factions and just join the person that ruined everything for them under the flimsiest of reasons is just... kind of horrendous writing? If you take it at face value.

But if you take this at face value, how is any other postgame in existence any different? Should I consider it canon that every single major NPC in Sacred Stones (except Vigarde lol RIP) survived the debacle and joined the twins during their clean-up rounds of the monster-infested locations? How about the Seraphic Gate, how do you explain everyone Wylfred and Fauxnel murdered just coming back to life for this mode?

I think it's a lot simpler to just consider it an extra. It leaves the writers freedom to have some fun with these deceased characters without having to bend over backwards to justify the likes of Walhart, Aversa and fuckin' Gangrel surviving and never trying to come back and slit Chrom's throat in his sleep.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Saint Rubenio

[Eltosian Kadath]

15 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

There's only four moments, and one does change things. This compared to all the more times things do get changed without the player being given a prompt.

Which one does? The one at the end where they already took the cowards way out of the story they were building up to.

 

38 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

changing Basilio's fate (another big change to the timeline)

More like retconned his fate, as we watch him die to a critical hit from Walhart when already at single digit health (and would have clearly one-shot him even if he wasn't at low health) as part of a cutscene that uses gameplay to tell its story. Really this clear retcon is where they started shying away from the ending they were setting up with the earlier roughly 85% of the game.

 

14 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

 

For its worth, Emmeryn was never confirmed killed, since no one bothered to check her body. Everybody was quick to leave the scene. Or at least, the big players did. It's true no explanation is given, but we're not dumb, we can easily piece it together.

Gangrel says he plans on putting her corpse on display...

 

24 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

 

People in real life have survived falls from higher heights than Emmeryn. She also VERY likely fell on sand, which is actually one of the better surfaces to land onto. By its nature, the kinetic force would get distributed over all the individual grains of sand. In addition, Emmeryn would first push the sand downwards if even for a fraction of a second. Combined, it reduces the force of acceleration, which means when it has to go back to Emmeryn through Newton's third law, it will be at a reduced rate from what initially was. The difference might still be small, but it can be enough to cross the crucial threshold between death and survival. It helps to remember Emmeryn didn't came out of it unscathed, so it's not like there wasn't any negative consequence even if she did live. Now it's a matter of someone coming to her side quickly enough, which we can infer is what happened.

Now, I can give you that Emmeryn being sent to an island between Ylisse and Valm and staying there for years might be hard to believe, but her survival isn't what's unusual about her situation. It's unlikely, but not impossible.

And other street pass chapters claim characters can just walk around after dying without heartbeats, on a lark. Nothing indicates she is more alive than the walking, talking, fighting corpse of the Conqueror. If you want to make this gibberish canon feel free, but it means you can never be sure any character isn't actually a walking, talking, fighting, fertile, and functional corpse. Given how many dead rulers of the era become corpses like this (with the other two ruler we see die, Gangrel, and Walhart becoming them too), I would even say Emmeryn's walking corpse state is even likely in this weird streetpass induced universe.

Hey that opens the door for Basilio just being a walking, and talking corpse too, and Chrom also after Robin actually killed him in the mind control cutscene, with walking and talking corpseism being so rampant among rulers. It even explains how Robin returns at the end if you "permanently" kill Grima. Maybe the real difference in the timeline is that this is the walking, and talking corpse dimension

 

28 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Funny how this convo happened not long after I wrote this.

Honestly I am with you on that one, as it makes Awakening's story border on Fate's level of absurd if you really consider it.

[Acacia Sgt]

13 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I mean, I like it. I think it's neat. I just don't think any of it makes much sense in the grand scheme of things.

If anything it's doing the story a favor to disregard it. To have every single villain survive dying, make no attempts at regaining control over their respective factions and just join the person that ruined everything for them under the flimsiest of reasons is just... kind of horrendous writing? If you take it at face value.

But if you take this at face value, how is any other postgame in existence any different? Should I consider it canon that every single major NPC in Sacred Stones (except Vigarde lol RIP) survived the debacle and joined the twins during their clean-up rounds of the monster-infested locations? How about the Seraphic Gate, how do you explain everyone Wylfred and Fauxnel murdered just coming back to life for this mode?

I think it's a lot simpler to just consider it an extra. It leaves the writers freedom to have some fun with these deceased characters without having to bend over backwards to justify the likes of Walhart, Aversa and fuckin' Gangrel surviving and never trying to come back and slit Chrom's throat in his sleep.

I get it. Sometimes it is done like that. I think the distinction is on whether or not the developers intend it to be one way or another, and how they present it as. The Seraphic Gate makes it quite clear. With Creature Campaign is about presentation. It is post-game, the characters don't get acknowledged and have nothing going for them beyond their existence. Awakening differs greatly on that.

I think the main issue is that they all get relegated to being unlocked just before the final chapter. If they all had different unlocking times, they might be received better.

In some cases it actually has some sense they didn't. Gangrel was too disgraced, he likely tried and failed as now Validar was too in control, or never tried as his own self-esteem was down in the dumps. Aversa had the mind control over her broken. Yen'Fay is from the Bad Future and he had all that time to reflect on things anyway. Walhart was likely following his philosophy. He got defeated, ergo he was weak so he doesn't deserve it anymore, and in fact he's angry the Risen were obeying him in his paralogue. Recruitment is certainly a different issue, but it'd only really apply to Gangrel and Walhart... perhaps.

[Acacia Sgt]

13 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Which one does? The one at the end where they already took the cowards way out of the story they were building up to.

You assume that wasn't the intention to begin with. Nevertheless, it's still an option with different consequences for each choice.

13 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

More like retconned his fate, as we watch him die to a critical hit from Walhart when already at single digit health (and would have clearly one-shot him even if he wasn't at low health) as part of a cutscene that uses gameplay to tell its story. Really this clear retcon is where they started shying away from the ending they were setting up with the earlier roughly 85% of the game.

If that was the case, then Raimi should be dead (Chapter 3 boss who survives the fight), Lucina should be dead (Chapter 4 fight), etc.

FE was long past the point where 0HP = Dead every time, even for cutscenes.

13 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Gangrel says he plans on putting her corpse on display...

Exactly. He says he will, but he never does. Because he leaves in pursuit of Chrom and company shortly after. Heck, we can infer that if he delegated the task to a flunky to retrieve the body, it was they who saw she was still alive, and happened to be among the ones moved by her sacrifice, so they instead helped her live.

13 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

And other street pass chapters claim characters can just walk around after dying without heartbeats, on a lark. Nothing indicates she is more alive than the walking, talking, fighting corpse of the Conqueror. If you want to make this gibberish canon feel free, but it means you can never be sure any character isn't actually a walking, talking, fighting, fertile, and functional corpse. Given how many dead rulers of the era become corpses like this (with the other two ruler we see die, Gangrel, and Walhart becoming them too), I would even say Emmeryn's walking corpse state is even likely in this weird streetpass induced universe.

Assuming Walhart was talking literally. The game never flags him as a Risen, despite Tiki, Nowi, and Nah still being Dragons even when not in the Manakete class. So if they can make that distinction, then so can for Walhart, yet he's not a Risen. He's alive, just making dramatic theatrics. Alternatively, it could be seen as his Walhart the Conqueror persona being dead, since he failed. But not Walhart the Man, as he's still alive.

13 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Hey that opens the door for Basilio just being a walking, and talking corpse too, and Chrom also after Robin actually killed him in the mind control cutscene, with walking and talking corpseism being so rampant among rulers. It even explains how Robin returns at the end if you "permanently" kill Grima. Maybe the real difference in the timeline is that this is the walking, and talking corpse dimension

Yeah, you're just talking nonsense at this point in a futile attempt to justify what you want to believe.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

If that was the case, then Raimi should be dead (Chapter 3 boss who survives the fight), Lucina should be dead (Chapter 4 fight), etc.

And both chapters are explicit about the battle not being to the death before they start. Now a better counter example is that you fight Walhart twice in the story (before the streetpass nonsense), but even there they are explicit about him not dying even in the death quote. Although the game is otherwise consistent in that this is a power only for Red units.

 

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Assuming Walhart was talking literally. The game never flags him as a Risen, despite Tiki, Nowi, and Nah still being Dragons even when not in the Manakete class. So if they can make that distinction, then so can for Walhart, yet he's not a Risen. He's alive, just making dramatic theatrics.

Walhart is very explicit about not having a heartbeat, and Gangrel almost as insistent on him being dead as well, but as you yourself said

57 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

 

You can not like it, but trying to pretend it doesn't exist or say it doesn't count is... jarring.

 

7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah, you're just talking nonsense at this point in a futile attempt to justify what you want to believe.

 I don't want to believe it; I am simply taking the parts of the streetpass story that I would otherwise pretend doesn't exist, or say doesn't count, and insisting they exist, and count, and seeing where that logically takes the story.

Not to call you a hypocrite or anything, but you have set a double standard here.

 

[GuardianSing]

Hey.

I got a prescription for adderall yesterday and I've taken my first capsule just now

This is 6 months in the making of me jumping through medical hoops to get to here, and now I'm finally here

Hopefully it will have been worth it.

8 hours ago, Armagon said:

Nah it would've been garbage. It's the same reason dystopian media is usually garbage. It's like what's the point.

Mind you, this is not the same as a bittersweet ending. Bittersweet endings, depending on variables, are good. But if it's just "everyone died and it was all for naught" I will make sure you never write again. This is like the biggest reason I hated Aldonah.Zero when I watched it years ago before I realized there was a Season 2.

This is like my hot writing take but I don't care if you have to asspull out of it, do not end your story on a bleak note under any circumstance.

I'm fine with a Greek Tragedy, but in the case of Awakening it's like that tragedy sort of already happened which is the whole point of the plot. If it happened again in the main timeline I feel as though it would've just been unsatisfying.

7 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Hey, it's okay to like different things. You don't have to explain yourself. I mean, I unapologetically enjoy Fates's story. Sure, you can say ironically, but the fact of the matter is that I got more enjoyment out of it than a few other FE stories. It's not a bad thing to enjoy a videogame.

Still, it's good to be conscious of my nostalgia even if I shouldn't care to stop it.

I think once I've finished going through every other Fire Emblem I'll return to Awakening in full, that might be fun as a circle back to the beginning.

Conquest was my first FE technically but I only ever beat for the first time like a month ago so it doesn't count.

7 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I don't think anyone in the development team remembered who or what Phila was by the time they got around to making the spotpass characters.

I don't get the obsession with taking their revivals into account with the rest of the plot or the claims of them "ruining the story", either. They're very clearly non-canon, pseudo-postgame extras. As far as I'm concerned, Emmeryn died when she did - the other thing was just a fun "what if" scenario.

For the villains specifically I thought it was a nice way to flesh them out a bit more than they could while they were in the story. Gangrel wanted to be a good king for his people who were suffering because of the previous war and wanted to bring justice, only to fall into madness and hatred.

"Even a dog like me knows the pangs of remorse. I laid legions of dead at my feet. But when I climbed that mountain of corpses... I found the vantage empty of any meaning. I failed to change anything."

" I was supposed to be the one to... to fix everything... But these hands that I dreamed would shape the future... They reek of blood. And the blood won't come off... My hands were clean once, I swear! ...Weren't they? Or did I just never stop to notice?"

And Walhart being a slightly more pragmatic villain, which is rare of fuck for Fire Emblem even though I love them so much. Edelgard is my icon for a reason.

"Look at you! Are you not ashamed? Your mind is filled with nothing but secondhand beliefs. You dance upon the stage of your gods like a mindless puppet! THAT is what I reject: being a slave to tradition, to obligation. The old ways. Damn the gods! Damn their fates and their destinies! I will have true freedom! And man who offers less is my enemy."

"Think bigger! If we were to succeed, we would eliminate all future wars! What is the sacrifice of even a million people if it builds a golden eternal future? What are they when weighed against peace and safety for future generations to come?"

And while we're talking about Walhart I feel like I must bring attention to this one exchange that I just now learned existed.

Say'ri: Walhart!

Walhart: Hmm? The princess of Chon'sin? It's a wonder you still live.

Say'ri: I have survived your gauntlet of betrayal and death, tyrant. Shall I describe to you now the searing pain of it all? The torture of watching friends, family...my entire kingdom perish? The fresh hell of each new day with no respite in sight?

Walhart: Pain is a concern of men. And respite? Beg that from your gods. Your concerns are not mine. I have risen to a higher plane of existence.

Say'ri: Then today you come crashing down to the hell you've made of this one.

Like that goes way too hard for an Awakening quote.

Aversa is more of a cheap "Oh I was evil but then I realized I was brainwashed so I'm okay now" and her backstory and motivations come out of nowhere because of that but I do find some of that reflection interesting.

"I've just been thinking lately... I really don't have a place in this world. I was played for a fool by my father. Now I fight for my former enemies... I'm a slack-eyed puppet that dances to music everyone but me can hear."

And her end card mentions that she basically went back to her home village to try and relive the life that was stolen from her.

Ultimately these are sympathetic qualities that really did not need to be given to the villains, especially since I think they work best as pure evil villains, but I still found those reflections compelling.

7 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Garon's awesome because he's so bad. Gangrel is legitimately awesome and if he had been the main villain the game would've been that much better off for it.

I like Walhart more than most people but yeah I see what you mean.

4 hours ago, Lightcosmo said:

yeah, too bad they focused the storyline on the wrong character. XD

(I would assume this was to avoid making it too similar to FE4?) But really Lucina should always have been the MC. (Also fairly sure the writers expressed disappointment with how her story turned out?)

Honestly thinking about it could've been very interesting if Chrom did actually die when he was supposed to but the story continued on anyway with Lucina taking more of a prominent role.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

And both chapters are explicit about the battle not being to the death before they start. Now a better counter example is that you fight Walhart twice in the story (before the streetpass nonsense), but even there they are explicit about him not dying even in the death quote. Although the game is otherwise consistent in that this is a power only for Red units.

Battles don't need to be stated to not be to the death to have the loser survive. Since that's the point. Basilio has to pretend he was struck down dead for the plan to work. You can blame Walhart for not bothering to check then.

2 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Walhart is very explicit about not having a heartbeat, and Gangrel almost as insistent on him being dead as well, but as you yourself said

Again, you're taking him at his word when that's not the case. The game disagrees on him being a Risen. As you yourself pointed out, Gangrel claims to be dead when that's not true. So same applies to Walahrt, except they're not saying it for the exact same reason, but it boils down to the same point: They're both alive. So yes, it's as I said. Don't pretend just because you don't like it.

2 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

 I don't want to believe it; I am simply taking the parts of the streetpass story that I would otherwise pretend doesn't exist, or say doesn't count, and insisting they exist, and count, and seeing where that logically takes the story.

Not to call you a hypocrite or anything, but you have set a double standard here.

Not really. I don't pretend what's not there. If something shows up to disprove my conjectures, then I switch accordingly. But as it is, you've yet to disprove me. You'd rather claim Emmeryn is a walking corpse than accept the fact she can be alive, by interpreting Walhart's line in a way that's disproven by the game itself.

[Acacia Sgt]

Well, fun as it is to debate this, I'm afraid I can't continue this. Not for now, at least. See ya in a few hours.

[Saint Rubenio]

15 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I get it. Sometimes it is done like that. I think the distinction is on whether or not the developers intend it to be one way or another, and how they present it as. The Seraphic Gate makes it quite clear. With Creature Campaign is about presentation. It is post-game, the characters don't get acknowledged and have nothing going for them beyond their existence. Awakening differs greatly on that.

Hence why I said "pseudo-postgame" instead of postgame. Awakening hasn't a postgame, but considering all of these characters join at the very end of the game and only if you fulfill some nebulous spotpass ritual, I think it's pretty obvious that they were only meant to be a fun extra goodie for players who want to dick around in skirmishes. Which, again, is fine and honestly I like it.

15 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I think the main issue is that they all get relegated to being unlocked just before the final chapter. If they all had different unlocking times, they might be received better.

Actually, the unlock time is one of the main factors that makes me consider the spotpass characters extras. Consider that every single main character in this story that has died (except for Validar lol Vigarde 2 RIP) is suddenly revealed to be alive right at the end of the game (in Aversa's case, it's also immediately after she supposedly dies) for exactly zero story purpose, and can be recruited into Chrom's army for various flimsy reasons by wandering around the world when the story is in full "gotta go fast or the world ends" mode.

There are only two ways to interpret this: It's an extra not mean to be taken seriously - just a bit more developed than these extras tend to be (which imo makes it better) but still very much an extra - or it's the worst writing in the history of fiction. Just about. To consider it the former is not a slight against the game - it's not hating it enough to want to take such a blatant low blow at it.

15 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

In some cases it actually has some sense they didn't. Gangrel was too disgraced, he likely tried and failed as now Validar was too in control, or never tried as his own self-esteem was down in the dumps. Aversa had the mind control over her broken. Yen'Fay is from the Bad Future and he had all that time to reflect on things anyway. Walhart was likely following his philosophy. He got defeated, ergo he was weak so he doesn't deserve it anymore, and in fact he's angry the Risen were obeying him in his paralogue. Recruitment is certainly a different issue, but it'd only really apply to Gangrel and Walhart... perhaps.

Oh, I wasn't aware Aversa was mind-controlled. Was that established or was it just the excuse for her recruitment?

And hey, just because they're extras doesn't mean they have to be out of character. Quite the opposite, these things can be a nice opportunity to get a deeper look into sides of characters that the main plot wouldn't allow for, be it due to its tone or the characters' role. And sure, the circumstances of their survival are pretty bonkers, but you can just consider them something extra and not let it sully the quality of the story otherwise.

Just now, GuardianSing said:

Hey.

I got a prescription for adderall yesterday and I've taken my first capsule just now

This is 6 months in the making of me jumping through medical hoops to get to here, and now I'm finally here

Hopefully it will have been worth it.

I hope things start getting better now.

5 minutes ago, GuardianSing said:

For the villains specifically I thought it was a nice way to flesh them out a bit more than they could while they were in the story. Gangrel wanted to be a good king for his people who were suffering because of the previous war and wanted to bring justice, only to fall into madness and hatred.

"Even a dog like me knows the pangs of remorse. I laid legions of dead at my feet. But when I climbed that mountain of corpses... I found the vantage empty of any meaning. I failed to change anything."

" I was supposed to be the one to... to fix everything... But these hands that I dreamed would shape the future... They reek of blood. And the blood won't come off... My hands were clean once, I swear! ...Weren't they? Or did I just never stop to notice?"

And Walhart being a slightly more pragmatic villain, which is rare of fuck for Fire Emblem even though I love them so much. Edelgard is my icon for a reason.

"Look at you! Are you not ashamed? Your mind is filled with nothing but secondhand beliefs. You dance upon the stage of your gods like a mindless puppet! THAT is what I reject: being a slave to tradition, to obligation. The old ways. Damn the gods! Damn their fates and their destinies! I will have true freedom! And man who offers less is my enemy."

"Think bigger! If we were to succeed, we would eliminate all future wars! What is the sacrifice of even a million people if it builds a golden eternal future? What are they when weighed against peace and safety for future generations to come?"

And while we're talking about Walhart I feel like I must bring attention to this one exchange that I just now learned existed.

Say'ri: Walhart!

Walhart: Hmm? The princess of Chon'sin? It's a wonder you still live.

Say'ri: I have survived your gauntlet of betrayal and death, tyrant. Shall I describe to you now the searing pain of it all? The torture of watching friends, family...my entire kingdom perish? The fresh hell of each new day with no respite in sight?

Walhart: Pain is a concern of men. And respite? Beg that from your gods. Your concerns are not mine. I have risen to a higher plane of existence.

Say'ri: Then today you come crashing down to the hell you've made of this one.

Like that goes way too hard for an Awakening quote.

Aversa is more of a cheap "Oh I was evil but then I realized I was brainwashed so I'm okay now" and her backstory and motivations come out of nowhere because of that but I do find some of that reflection interesting.

"I've just been thinking lately... I really don't have a place in this world. I was played for a fool by my father. Now I fight for my former enemies... I'm a slack-eyed puppet that dances to music everyone but me can hear."

And her end card mentions that she basically went back to her home village to try and relive the life that was stolen from her.

Ultimately these are sympathetic qualities that really did not need to be given to the villains, especially since I think they work best as pure evil villains, but I still found those reflections compelling.

Yeah, this is what I'm talking about. This is all stuff that would've been super weird to introduce in the main plot, but as bonus stuff like this? It works, I think.

6 minutes ago, GuardianSing said:

I like Walhart more than most people but yeah I see what you mean.

Hey, Walhart and the Grimleal could've still existed. I don't even need him to be the main baddie, Gangrel could've just gotten relegated to lackey-of-Validar status alongside Aversa. Get some wonderful scenes of him seething. Would've helped a bit to make Walhart's arc feel less disconnected if Gangrel was around doing things, too. Maybe he called Walhart over or something.

[Armagon]

8 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The third a simple exclamation for why it is worth living even if life is originally meaningless, as we shout its meaning into the void.

This isn't bleak tho.

8 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

They're very clearly non-canon, pseudo-postgame extras. As far as I'm concerned, Emmeryn died when she did - the other thing was just a fun "what if" scenario.

Ehhh I don't know if they're non-canon, strictly speaking. You have to go out of your way to get them but they're still treated like any other character.

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

This is new.

I mean we already had the Robobot Armor, but still, I like it.😁

Hi-Zol Launchers!

Looks like Mecha Kirby is primarily long-range bombardment type, although the twin launchers also having propulsion would suggest this began as an experimental modification of Jet Kirby -to speak as if Kirby was a mech.😝

While the helmet looks like the Double Zeta, no laser emerges from the middle.

Poyo poyo poyopoyo! Poyo poyo poyo poy! Poyo poyo-ken!🤪

...Just a pinch of burning fists in the moveset. No palm-projectile unfortunately; Fighter already has that, which I think works both as an excuse and anti-excuse why Mecha doesn't have one.

-Oh, and the new Sand Copy Ability is nice too, but I feel like Mecha is more straightforward.

Oh Return to Dream Land?

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

People in real life have survived falls from higher heights than Emmeryn. She also VERY likely fell on sand, which is actually one of the better surfaces to land onto. By its nature, the kinetic force would get distributed over all the individual grains of sand. In addition, Emmeryn would first push the sand downwards if even for a fraction of a second. Combined, it reduces the force of acceleration, which means when it has to go back to Emmeryn through Newton's third law, it will be at a reduced rate from what initially was. The difference might still be small, but it can be enough to cross the crucial threshold between death and survival. It helps to remember Emmeryn didn't came out of it unscathed, so it's not like there wasn't any negative consequence even if she did live. Now it's a matter of someone coming to her side quickly enough, which we can infer is what happened.

This guy maths.

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

You can not like it, but trying to pretend it doesn't exist or say it doesn't count is... jarring.

Don't let Star Wars fans hear you say that.

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Walhart is very explicit about not having a heartbeat

Walhart being too strong to die is in character for him tbh.

[Armagon]

>vocal Middle Eight 

I have ascended.

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Again, you're taking him at his word when that's not the case.

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Basilio has to pretend he was struck down dead for the plan to work.

Why are you taking Basilio at his word that he survived instead of dying and coming back, and not take Walhart at his word?

 

14 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The game disagrees on him being a Risen.

I never called any of them Risen, I called them walking, and talking corpses. Even if I did believe they were Risen you have just been arguing

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

FE was long past the point where 0HP = Dead every time, even for cutscenes.

against a strict interpretation of gameplay as story. Why should this one be considered more sacrosanct, when the street pass gives us multiple counter examples?

 

27 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

As you yourself pointed out, Gangrel claims to be dead when that's not true.

I never said, or meant to imply that Gangrel wasn't dead. Both of these characters are confirmed kills as we see the bodies. There is no convenient we didn't have time to check the bodies scene for either of them; and their confirmed deaths end their respective wars. I emphasized Walhart because he is especially explicit about not having a heartbeat.

47 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Don't pretend just because you don't like it.

Don't pretend these characters didn't died just because you don't like it... What do you even think happened to them, for them to become playable in the streetpass?

 

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

If something shows up to disprove my conjectures,

By the same token, you haven't disproved my conjecture either.

 

50 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

You'd rather claim Emmeryn is a walking corpse than accept the fact she can be alive,

I am more arguing that her being a walking talking corpse is far more likely, and better supported by the story than her being alive, if we accept what is told by the other streetpass maps is canon. As you admit in an earlier post

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

For its worth, Emmeryn was never confirmed killed, since no one bothered to check her body. Everybody was quick to leave the scene. Or at least, the big players did. It's true no explanation is given, but we're not dumb, we can easily piece it together.

People in real life have survived falls from higher heights than Emmeryn. She also VERY likely fell on sand, which is actually one of the better surfaces to land onto. By its nature, the kinetic force would get distributed over all the individual grains of sand. In addition, Emmeryn would first push the sand downwards if even for a fraction of a second. Combined, it reduces the force of acceleration, which means when it has to go back to Emmeryn through Newton's third law, it will be at a reduced rate from what initially was. The difference might still be small, but it can be enough to cross the crucial threshold between death and survival. It helps to remember Emmeryn didn't came out of it unscathed, so it's not like there wasn't any negative consequence even if she did live. Now it's a matter of someone coming to her side quickly enough, which we can infer is what happened.

Now, I can give you that Emmeryn being sent to an island between Ylisse and Valm and staying there for years might be hard to believe, but her survival isn't what's unusual about her situation. It's unlikely, but not impossible.

the game gives no explanation for how she survived, and that it is distinctly unlikely for her to survive. The street pass story sets the precedent that with a strong enough will, it doesn't matter if she survived, she could come back anyway, and we definitely see a strong will from her. We don't need to invent conjecture about Gangrel clearly leaving in too hot of pursuit of Chrom to check the body, but still slow enough pursuit that Mustafa cutting off their line of retreat would not give Gangrel time to catch up, or improbable whims of physics, or about super secretive traitors whisking her to safety when the camera isn't looking.

 

49 minutes ago, Armagon said:

This isn't bleak tho.

In a sense it isn't, but I meant it more in the idea that opposing Grima to the end, even if that opposition is futile, is meaningful in and of itself, despite knowing the futility of it.

 

2 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

Hey.

I got a prescription for adderall yesterday and I've taken my first capsule just now

This is 6 months in the making of me jumping through medical hoops to get to here, and now I'm finally here

Hopefully it will have been worth it.

Congrats, hopefully it helps.

 

2 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

I like Walhart more than most people but yeah I see what you mean.

I have a soft spot for Walhart, as I see him as answering an interesting question; what would happen if Chrom decided to abandoned his duty after learning of his doomed destiny. Here is Walhart, all ready to fill Chrom's role in the story of Grima's rise to power, should he waver.

 

2 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

Honestly thinking about it could've been very interesting if Chrom did actually die when he was supposed to but the story continued on anyway with Lucina taking more of a prominent role.

That would have been far more interesting...

 

[Saint Rubenio]

Somebody's streaming my hack. I will shill them so I can shill myself in a roundabout way. Which is to say, click here plz

 

[Armagon]

12 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Both of these characters are confirmed kills as we see the bodies.

I mean, this goes back all the way to FE1. Camus died. Then he "washed up" on Valentia somehow.

13 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

In a sense it isn't, but I meant it more in the idea that opposing Grima to the end, even if that opposition is futile, is meaningful in and of itself, despite knowing the futility of it.

Well if you're saying that they should've lost to to Grima, that's dogshit, because Grima winning is the apocalypse essentially.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

I got a prescription for adderall yesterday and I've taken my first capsule just now

This is 6 months in the making of me jumping through medical hoops to get to here, and now I'm finally here

Hopefully it will have been worth it.

Hopefully it works!🙂 And hopefully the cost for the stuff isn't problematic from people who don't actually need it but casually take it.

...By the way, a little Native American story I was reading earlier today.:

The Unlikely, Enduring Friendship Between Ireland and the Choctaw Nation | History | Smithsonian Magazine

@Punished Dayni Might've heard of it before, possibly.

 

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Oh Return to Dream Land?

Yep. Felt like it last night, I hadn't played anything in days, and this was easy to slide into (I ❤️ Kirby + easy plotless action-platforming). It was the last of my three bday gifts last month.

I've already cleared the first three worlds, I could devour this game very quickly.😅

[Armagon]

I'll upload more pictures soon, i swear. For now, take this one i took at Santiago de Compostela

40 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I hadn't played anything in days

Same. Just haven't had the time.

One day, i'll finish Ryza 3. One day.