Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Lorneus]

3 minutes ago, Shrimpresident said:

Maybe, but i can't really enjoy a story without atleast an acceptable gameplay.

Eh, everyone has their own way of playing. I can endure a terrible gameplay if the story makes up for it, even in the event I have the possibility to just watch it online instead. It sounds stupid when I write it, and it probably is, since it would probably be more enjoyable with the videos, but I guess there's something appealing of going through the story myself or something? I'm not too sure.

7 minutes ago, Shrimpresident said:

And before anyone says ''Nostalgia/experience'', i played Crossbell after Cold Steel (due to lack of localizations), and while certainly, they were easier than Sky, they were miles harder than Cold Steel. Atleast fights required me to think and i had to respond to Ai actions (a rarity in Cold Steel). Maybe a bit too easy for Nightmare that made me bang my head in Sky quite a lot of times, but it was acceptable.

I can only agree with you on a general basis here. Pretty much any license I've played I've found has gotten easier along the years. And not just due to quality of life stuff either. I remember playing Seiken Densetsu 3, and also played it after playing the Trials of Mana remake. Trials of Mana makes you level like nothing, to the point where it's a miracle not to get your first class up at the first mana stone you encounter. Seiken Densetsu 3 had you either grind for it (which I always did cause I like class changes in general in games) or suffer through the next dungeons to get it. I remember abusing savestates and rewinds on my emulator and still kinda feel the need to today, while the remake never had me bat an eye, maybe use an item or two here and there. And the remake even removed cheese strats like the dark magic on Black Rabite or Chibikko Hammer to remove every existing bad status, and yet it is leagues easier than the original! Even the postgame bosses feel like nothing. Though I guess the passage from 2D to 3D could dampen the point a bit as it makes a certain difference in gameplay altogether. 

The warriors series feel the same. You could struggle in any battle on normal in Dynasty 4, and boy do some of these fights still feel like a challenge today. Officers felt like officers. You can steamroll through Orochi 4 highest difficulty like it's nothing. Officers feel like slightly dried butter. But then they send you one boss that's bloated to hell and back and can almost one-shot a maxed out character with best equipment so you just abuse long range abilities from Magic for hours on end.

In Disgaea 1, enemies can take multiple attacks to die, from varying characters, and the geo symbols pose a challenge. In Disgaea 4 onwards, geo blocks/symbols used in story maps exist and they only really become a problem for the challenge maps. You either one-shot enemies or they do, generally speaking. You can still get game-overs on stages you could realistically win if you're not careful, but the stages don't get creatively difficult as 1 and 2 did. You'll get interesting gimmicks and the games are still interesting, imo, but they certainly don't pose as much of a challenge.

Okay, enough from me about that rant XD

23 minutes ago, Shrimpresident said:

And then, since you said people played for the story, the easy gameplay ruined many Story moments for me. In older games hard fights were usually hard. I got more immersed in the stary because when the party was exhausted so was i. I felt i achieved something after i fought a hard boss for 20 Minutes, or had to get creative with the strats. Or the clutch win had me going ''YES!!!!!!!!!!''.

In Cold steel every time a boss fight happened and the party was exhausted or went ''that was hard'' or anything like that i went ''What the fuck, you guys just streamrolled them'', and i was just bored. It ruined even Story moments that could've been good.

I don't feel the high as much as you do, I suspect, though it did happen, mostly in action games however. I do however feel the second part very much, where if the party says a fight was tough or the enemy is apparently unbeatable but I destroyed them violently in their fight, I can only roll my eyes and sigh.

 

26 minutes ago, Shrimpresident said:

An interective gameplay is needed for a good Story. It's why for example in RD i don't mind the Greil Merc parts being easier because the Greil Mercs are more experienced, are op in the story as they were in the gameplay, so it all flowed well together. In that case the easier difficulty enhances the Story, for example, while Dawn brigade parts were harder because they are an inexperienced group, which also fits the story.

Eh, I don't think it's needed, but it does enhance it a lot, and it can sometimes diminish the quality of the story otherwise. I think I'd mostly be of the opinion that gameplay that counteracts interactivity completely would be a true hindrance, and simply non-interactive gameplay is generally harmless to the story.

28 minutes ago, Shrimpresident said:

You do remember i had the problem gameplay problem as well where due to lack of difficulty i didn't feel like Alm did anything.

Wait, that was due to gameplay? I thought it was because the enemies we encountered before Alm became leader of the rebellion were mostly bandits and that didn't feel realistic. Basically, more in story progression logic than in story vs gameplay interactivity.

 

[Benice]

btw @Sooks, sorry to ping you, but I would like to ask now: When/if you start Yakuza 0, do want any hints or suggestions, or do you want to be as blind as possible?

(I guess same to Shrimpy when he starts LAD, but I don't think he'll need my help to get through a JRPG effectively)

Edited January 7, 2022 by Benice

[Dayni]

TLDW: Kinda besides the Kitsune, he's a furry hater..

[Codename Shrimp]

14 minutes ago, Lorneus said:

Okay, enough from me about that rant XD

Nah, it's understandable. And i have experienced the same over the years as well with FE conquest being like, the sole exception

But i have never seen a case as bad as Trails. No game i played made me streamroll through the game like in CS. Ever.

14 minutes ago, Lorneus said:

Wait, that was due to gameplay? I thought it was because the enemies we encountered before Alm became leader of the rebellion were mostly bandits and that didn't feel realistic. Basically, more in story progression logic than in story vs gameplay interactivity.

It's kinda both, but i wrote more on that later (maybe you didn'T see it)

And what i came to the conclusion is if the maps atleast played like/felt like i was retaking the country (like in other FE country retaking map), i would've accepted how Alm achieved something then.

But every Alm map was more like a normal RPG mob battle. 

So yeah, it's a Story problem at it's core, but gameplay integration would've fixed a few story problems here for me, and major ones at that

Edited January 7, 2022 by Shrimpresident

[Codename Shrimp]

8 minutes ago, Dayni said:

TLDW: Kinda besides the Kitsune, he's a furry hater..

r/theydidmath

[Benice]

8 minutes ago, Dayni said:

TLDW: Kinda besides the Kitsune, he's a furry hater..

RIP the faceless.

[Codename Shrimp]

12 minutes ago, Benice said:

I guess same to Shrimpy when he starts LAD

If i need something, i will ask 😉

You know how much i don't like using guides!

[Dayni]

1 minute ago, Benice said:

RIP the faceless.

The Faceless are golems made seemingly without life in them.

RIP

[Benice]

1 minute ago, Shrimpresident said:

If i need something, i will ask 😉

You know how much i don't like using guides!

Yup, I figured! Just wanted to make sure. Because I quite like to run my mouth.

1 minute ago, Dayni said:

The Faceless are golems made seemingly without life in them.

RIP

They should have had a playable Faceless, I think.

Then again, I think they should have had a playable Agarthan in TH, so maybe I am invalid.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Benice

[Lightcosmo]

Challenge shouldnt come down to "how to break shit all over the place" and it also shouldnt be "suffocate the player with shit restrictions" creativity and options should be a thing imo, just no sot reliable that it removes thought process.

[Sooks]

15 minutes ago, Benice said:

btw @Sooks, sorry to ping you, but I would like to ask now: When/if you start Yakuza 0, do want any hints or suggestions, or do you want to be as blind as possible?

(I guess same to Shrimpy when he starts LAD, but I don't think he'll need my help to get through a JRPG effectively)

What do you mean hints? Hints at what, exactly?

[Codename Shrimp]

Well said, Cosmo

Edited January 7, 2022 by Shrimpresident

[Benice]

Just now, Sooks said:

What do you mean hints? Hints at what, exactly?

Gameplay-wise, mostly. Items that are useful, or strategies that I like.

[Sooks]

Just now, Benice said:

Gameplay-wise, mostly. Items that are useful, or strategies that I like.

I think I’ll be fine starting out, but if I feel like I need help I will let you know.

[Benice]

Just now, Sooks said:

I think I’ll be fine starting out, but if I feel like I need help I will let you know.

OK!

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Benice said:

They should have had a playable Faceless, I think.

Then again, I think they should have had a playable Agarthan in TH, so maybe I am invalid.

It would be interesting to have a playable "character" who is unconventional in that sense. And not just as a temporary summon-like gimmick like Sacred Stone's Summoner or SoV's Invoke/Conjure spells.

I remember once thinking such a concept for Valentia: A playable witch. How to justify that I was thinking it could be that the soul-offered-to-Duma process happened in one of those rare moments of clarity Duma had, so he was like 'put me out of my misery and don't obey me during my mad moments' or something. So the witch aligns with the heroes due to that decree.

[Lightcosmo]

4 minutes ago, Shrimpresident said:

Well said, Cosmo

❤️ I would consider myself not great at Trails and found CS to be way too brain dead. 

Example: Alisa's heaveanly gift craft is literally an instant win button! No skill, no creativity, no thinking, just an auto win. How is this fun on the players end? Its not fun to play on auto pilot the entire game cause an option is so reliable, that other options arent worth considering.

Another game I can example with this: FFX. Anyone who is anyone knows Quick Trick is busted as shit, and braindead. The Int version had to nerf it to hell and its still braindead and boring. Bad game design to have one skill useful out of many.

[Benice]

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It would be interesting to have a playable "character" who is unconventional in that sense. And not just as a temporary summon-like gimmick like Sacred Stone's Summoner or SoV's Invoke/Conjure spells.

I remember once thinking such a concept for Valentia: A playable witch. How to justify that I was thinking it could be that the soul-offered-to-Duma process happened in one of those rare moments of clarity Duma had, so he was like 'put me out of my misery and don't obey me during my mad moments' or something. So the witch aligns with the heroes due to that decree.

Playable usually enemy-only classes is always fun for me.

[Interdimensional Observer]

39 minutes ago, Lorneus said:

remember playing Seiken Densetsu 3, and also played it after playing the Trials of Mana remake. Trials of Mana makes you level like nothing, to the point where it's a miracle not to get your first class up at the first mana stone you encounter. Seiken Densetsu 3 had you either grind for it (which I always did cause I like class changes in general in games) or suffer through the next dungeons to get it. I remember abusing savestates and rewinds on my emulator and still kinda feel the need to today, while the remake never had me bat an eye, maybe use an item or two here and there. And the remake even removed cheese strats like the dark magic on Black Rabite or Chibikko Hammer to remove every existing bad status, and yet it is leagues easier than the original! Even the postgame bosses feel like nothing. Though I guess the passage from 2D to 3D could dampen the point a bit as it makes a certain difference in gameplay altogether. 

I can't imagine ever going to Seiken Densetsu 3 after playing the remake though. The clips of the Super Famicom gameplay I've even seen suggest it's very slow and clunky by modern standards. It's not an action RPG, it's a beached whale of an ATB/turn-based RPG attempting to be action. It was trying to do too much for what its era technically could handle.

39 minutes ago, Lorneus said:

You could struggle in any battle on normal in Dynasty 4, and boy do some of these fights still feel like a challenge today.

But then, I've seen some DW2 gameplay, the AI seems as weak as it usually is without you there on the spot, contrary to protestations it wasn't always that way. And the whole "officers can instantly fully heal if you knock them off their feet" sounds incredibly cheap.

 

6 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Another game I can example with this: FFX. Anyone who is anyone knows Quick Trick is busted as shit, and braindead. The Int version had to nerf it to hell and its still braindead and boring. Bad game design to have one skill useful out of many.

Referring to the skill in Tidus's Sphere grid? It comes endgame-late, who other than Tidus will ever have a shot at using before Sin is dead? Postgame? Hellish tedium that nobody should have to be put through. The postgame doesn't exist if you ask me. Meaning, Quick Hit will practically never be used.

[Codename Shrimp]

9 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Example: Alisa's heaveanly gift craft is literally an instant win button! No skill, no creativity, no thinking, just an auto win. How is this fun on the players end? Its not fun to play on auto pilot the entire game cause an option is so reliable, that other options arent worth considering.

If it was only one Skill/craft, i could've simply avoided using it. Especially since i don't like Alisa anyway

But when everything in the game is broken it's just why. There literally was nothing that wasn't broken in the whole Saga

Edited January 7, 2022 by Shrimpresident

[Codename Shrimp]

So i just stumbled upon this...

Seeing gunner and tanks facing swordies is funny lol

and ofc it's only the girls. Atleast someone remembers Isara

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Shrimpresident said:

and ofc it's only the girls. Atleast someone remembers Isara

Wasn't Not Welkin's Bread Machine included in the VC3 and VC4 DLCs along with the others? 

[Saint Rubenio]

25 minutes ago, Benice said:

They should have had a playable Faceless, I think.

I mean, Anthony's completely pointless as it is. Why not make him join? Might as well.

25 minutes ago, Benice said:

Then again, I think they should have had a playable Agarthan in TH, so maybe I am invalid.

The Agarthans desperately needed something. A playable would've been a good place to begin.

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I remember once thinking such a concept for Valentia: A playable witch. How to justify that I was thinking it could be that the soul-offered-to-Duma process happened in one of those rare moments of clarity Duma had, so he was like 'put me out of my misery and don't obey me during my mad moments' or something. So the witch aligns with the heroes due to that decree.

That's a pretty great concept. TearRing Saga already did a playable witch, but she got a different reason and context for her recruitability.

[Codename Shrimp]

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Wasn't Not Welkin's Bread Machine included in the VC3 and VC4 DLCs along with the others? 

yes, but i really didn't use the DLC in both games tbh

Also Isara is no Bread Machine xD

Edited January 7, 2022 by Shrimpresident

[Benice]

3 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

A playable would've been a good place to begin.

Oh well. Maybe in Three Houses 2 when they announce it at the next Ninty Direct.