Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Armagon]

Celceta's economy is so fucked bro.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Every game with weapon durability convinces me weapon durability is a mistake

Thankfully I dissuaded you from Riviera.

Part of that comes from the fact that weapon durability is a thing, in a turn-based JRPG. Not only that, but you can only carry 16 items total (One item slot is also permanently taken up by the infinite-use Einherjar -which is total junk when used by anyone except Ein. And you can only bring 4 items into any battle, items being your only source of available actions.), any new ones -and you'll constantly be getting new stuff- and something has to be thrown away. Another qualm- there are no shops whatsoever. And it doesn't help that some chests have randomized contents in the form of a very fast item roulette. Meaning, it is possible to go an entire chapter of the game without picking up say a new bow for Lina, forcing you to be conservative with whatever old bow you have for her if you want the gal to pop a level 3 Overdrive.

I suppose the item situation, as well as say the lite story and plentiful QTEs are all supposed to create some kind of "adventurous" feel. But in practice the combat system is clunky.

 

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

How does SRW handle that? I didn't make it far enough into J for any gameplay mechanics to start mattering.

Presumably referring to ammo and energy. Both can be fully replenished via a unit with the Resupply action or being loaded into a battleship (which only restores 20% of EN per turn), at the cost of 10 Will (affects Melee, Ranged, and Def stats, some skills also activate with high Will and certain weapons can only be used at high Will). Ammo is specific to each individual attack, whereas EN is a pool shared by all the weapons of a unit. All of both of these are fully restored after every map.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Interdimensional Observer

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

How does SRW handle that? I didn't make it far enough into J for any gameplay mechanics to start mattering.

Every mech has a set "inventory", that can't be changed outside the plot dictating it, or it's a secret to be unlocked. Though a few games did had equippable weapons in addition to the fixed ones, but those are an exceptions.

Anyway, depending on the attack, they either can be used as much you want, they have an Ammo counter, or required EN to be used.

Ammo works like TH magic. Can use the attack X times for that map. While EN is just your standard MP system.

However, there's a lot of ways to restore Ammo/EN, so you effectively can never ran out. Well, depends on the game, since some ways are only present in some games, but there's always a way to recover.

Simply put, you never have to fear on ending up with no way to attack.

[Codename Shrimp]

17 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

One I know you enjoy, but well... Reception was mixed

Honestly i think if they were able to balance it better/nerfed forging...

Or if people were just not scared from debuffs...

17 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

It feels to me like it's mostly just there to limit higher tier equipment.

All it does is kead to either hoarding or durability chore. Or both

Relevant Excelblem.

And honestly i wouldn't mind it that much if i actually felt it mattered. Most games throw money & weapons at you.

RD part 3 is the only part of the series where i actually had to think about it. Otherwise i just run with full inventories and deal with chore

Well at the end of the day it isn't a mechanic that makes or breaks FE for me, but ut annoys me everytime it pops up

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

any new ones -and you'll constantly be getting new stuff- has to be thrown away

Yabaiii

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

But in practice the combat system is clunky.

I can imagine

Edited July 25, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[Interdimensional Observer]

39 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

I can imagine

You also can't pick your targets in battle, each weapon's description explains what it'll choose to hit. Also applies for the single-target healing staffs (tomes heal everyone though, if you should happen to acquire one of those).

And you want to do well in battles, since each battle ends with a ranking based on total actions taken and the level of overdrive used to end the fight. These rankings provide points that let you investigate your surrounding and trigger various events included the aforementioned QTEs that can provide new stuff. You can't grind either, there are no unscripted encounters in this game. EXP doesn't exist as a result and instead you get stat boosts by mastering weapons by having a character use them X number of times. Thankfully, a training mode exists where you item durability is disabled and you can master stuff in there, plus picking up some mediocre monster loot if you're REALLY desperate for new thingies. -The issue is that if you're like me, you'll stop to go into training to master the latest pickup every time you get something new b/c that's optimal, twas a bit of a drag.

I speculate the combat system was supposed to get you thinking "Which three characters and four items do I bring into each fight to win, and win fast with a flourish?". The thinking is less in what you do during the battle, as in your choices before it begins. In practice ...well I never really thought that way as a child, but lovely GBA animations aside, the battles were iffy.

I loves Riviera's music, I like its visuals, and the general vibe of the game I would love to see replicated in something new. But the gameplay is likely an acquired taste, to put it politely.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Interdimensional Observer

[Saint Rubenio]

51 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Presumably referring to ammo and energy. Both can be fully replenished via a unit with the Resupply action or being loaded into a battleship (which only restores 20% of EN per turn), at the cost of 10 Will (affects Melee, Ranged, and Def stats, some skills also activate with high Will and certain weapons can only be used at high Will). Ammo is specific to each individual attack, whereas EN is a pool shared by all the weapons of a unit. All of both of these are fully restored after every map.

 

48 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Every mech has a set "inventory", that can't be changed outside the plot dictating it, or it's a secret to be unlocked. Though a few games did had equippable weapons in addition to the fixed ones, but those are an exceptions.

Anyway, depending on the attack, they either can be used as much you want, they have an Ammo counter, or required EN to be used.

Ammo works like TH magic. Can use the attack X times for that map. While EN is just your standard MP system.

However, there's a lot of ways to restore Ammo/EN, so you effectively can never ran out. Well, depends on the game, since some ways are only present in some games, but there's always a way to recover.

Simply put, you never have to fear on ending up with no way to attack.

Right, I see. Certainly a decent alternative, though in FE's context, a lot of people are partial to the series's simplicity and might not appreciate such a system being thrown in there. Hence why Fates's system wasn't widely enjoyed. Or, it's so easy to resupply that ends up just being meaningless numbers cluttering the HUD, like in Advance Wars.

42 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Honestly i think if they were able to balance it better/nerfed forging...

Well, there's always room for improvement in everything.

42 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Or if people were just not scared from debuffs...

Rightfully so, since the debuffs often render units entirely worthless in Fates's very strict stat game, with no way to cure it but wait a precious few turns. It's a lot more scary than not having 2 durability on Jagen's silver lance in the endgame, if I do say so myself.

Still, there are certainly merits. They just kinda overshot it in some cases.

54 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

All it does is kead to either hoarding or durability chore. Or both

Relevant Excelblem.

If people were just not scared of the unknown...

[Interdimensional Observer]

22 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Or, it's so easy to resupply that ends up just being meaningless numbers cluttering the HUD, like in Advance Wars.

I wouldn't say this is entirely incorrect. It is true that as long you keep an APC or two around, ammo & fuel are nonissues for land units. In Famicom Wars and Super Famicom Wars, resupplying did cost a tiny bit of funds, but it was marginal really. Air and naval units do have greater worries, but easily manageable. Unless you're a Sub, or worse, the Dual Strike exclusive Stealth Fighter. 60 fuel tank, 6 move, burns 5 fuel per turn simply for being a plane, that's upwards of 11 fuel per turn right there. But what use is a Stealth Fighter that isn't in stealth mode? That's an extra 3 fuel per turn, so 14, nearly one-quarter of the tank! Hardly capable of flying over Blue Moon for a few hours doing aerial reconnaissance, they practically have to be glued to APCs.

The one medieval-themed indie AW knockoff Wargroove did ditch fuel and ammo (barring for like one or two units added in the co-op campaign). I can't say the decision was a bad one, even if it didn't mean a whole lot positive to me either.

[Armagon]

2 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Every game with weapon durability convinces me weapon durability is a mistake

It is good in Zelda and also stuff like Minecraft. I don't think it belongs that much in RPGs tho. It's not a deal breaker in Fire Emblem but i don't necessarily want it back.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

You also can't pick your targets in battle, each weapon's description explains what it'll choose to hit. Also applies for the single-target healing staffs (tomes heal everyone though, if you should happen to acquire one of those).

This combined with Persona 3's "only the MC can be controlled" would make for the awesomest form of bad game design.

[ping]

2 hours ago, Newtype06 said:

See, that kind of criminal energy would've made her more interesting as a character.

Status report:

Flemeth down...

...so I guess Morrigan is breasting boobily again.
(At least I still think that +5 Magic, +20% cold damage and +12 Defense is the best she can get)

Unrelated: It's not that I dislike his voice, but I still think that Jowen's VA was a poor choice to use for so many minor NPCs. His voice is so recognisable that you really notice every time you run in another of his roles.

Also unrelated: Sten mentioned in a recent conversation conversation that the Qunari aren't so much a society with a highly collectivist ethos, they are a society with a highly collectivist ethos enforced by the priest caste by brainwashing educating the children. That... doesn't bode too well for future appearances, especially because he also alluded to plans of the Qunari to invade Ferelden (and by "allude" I mean that he presents it as an inevitable event).

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

This combined with Persona 3's "only the MC can be controlled" would make for the awesomest form of bad game design.

Vanilla P3 didn't invent AI-controlled companions in a turn-based JRPG. Ye olde Dragone Queste Foure dide soe one thee Famicome (DQV had it too IIRC). Maybe at the time it was considered innovative? That technology had progressed to the point of allowing for AI to take on that kind of functionality? In practice, it spawned one character meme (b/c they kept spamming low-accuracy insta-death☠️ instead of healing you😑) and all ports/remasters/remakes of DQIV let you control the non-MC characters by default, even if the option to let the AI take over remained.

Curiously, I did see one game recently released that tried "turn-based with everyone but the MC AI-controlled" yet again. That aspect ended up being on the rather lengthy list of criticisms the game received.

[Armagon]

Why are you here? How did you even know we'd be here? 

Also the game has frozen.

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ye olde Dragone Queste Foure dide soe one thee Famicome (DQV had it too IIRC). Maybe at the time it was considered innovative?

It didn't stick around for much tho but at the time i suppose it could be seen as experimental.

AI party members aren't a bad thing, it's only a bad thing when the game is turn-based, an aspect of which is planning out your moves.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Armagon

[BrightBow]

At least embedding Xcrements still works. Or whatever they are called now.

[Acacia Sgt]

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

it spawned one character meme (b/c they kept spamming low-accuracy insta-death☠️ instead of healing you😑)

It's funnier in that the AI is programmed to learn to stop using spells that don't work.

Of course, since it requires like four-five consecutive misses and has to be repeated on each different monster-kind...

[Acacia Sgt]

Also, I can't get over the fact they named him Cristo in the English NES version...

[Sooks]

Beat a squad of black bokoblins including a super massive black bokoblin with early game weapons and armor. I’m basically a pro.

Yeah so apparently there’s a longish… dungeon? right where you go to talk to Hoz at the beginning of the game, which you’re maybe not supposed to do yet but I spent an hour there instead of doing you know, the main story.

[Codename Shrimp]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

But the gameplay is likely an acquired taste, to put it politely.

Yeah you tell me

Aside from Yggdra, i think their gameplay were too big brain for me xD.

Heck, for many people even Yggdra was too big brain lol

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Rightfully so, since the debuffs often render units entirely worthless in Fates's very strict stat game, with no way to cure it but wait a precious few turns.

Tbf, except if you went full Silver spam on EP, you using them won't uselessfy your units.

And other debuffs could be cleared by attack stancing, not to mention attack stancing doesn't trigger them in the first place.

I do agree tho that the debuff recover was a pain. Making it recover whole in one turn instead of 1 stat/turn will fix alot!

Now inevitable end will be a true anti juggernaut tool and not a "this unit is now useless forever if they even live" thing

15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Why are you here? How did you even know we'd be here? 

Also the game has frozen.

I see Celceta is really testing your patience lol

Edited July 25, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[Armagon]

3 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Yeah so apparently there’s a longish… dungeon? right where you go to talk to Hoz at the beginning of the game, which you’re maybe not supposed to do yet but I spent an hour there instead of doing you know, the main story.

Well the only dungeon within the vicinity is Hyrule Castle itself. Which you can't get up there right now (i mean you can and you'll probably be going up there earlier than the plot wants you to cause of a sidequest) but yeah it's a bit early haha.

2 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

see Celceta is really testing your patience lol

I will rip the villains to shreds.

[Armagon]

I really don't like that he has a big fuck you laser that can only be avoided if you perfect dash.

[Armagon]

Literally the only reason this guy's winning is because he has an unavoidable attack. He talks a big game but he can't win without cheating.

[Codename Shrimp]

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Literally the only reason this guy's winning is because he has an unavoidable attack. He talks a big game but he can't win without cheating.

Just use Karna bro

[Armagon]

1 minute ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Just use Karna bro

How good is she actually? I do remember hearing she's broken but she hasn't exactly impressed me. Her range is less than i would've liked.

[Codename Shrimp]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

How good is she actually?

From what i remember she's one of the strongest Party Members in Ys history

[Armagon]

11 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

From what i remember she's one of the strongest Party Members in Ys history

Well switching to Karna actually did the trick. Not because she hits hard but because i could exploit that AI party members don't die (though it seems they stop attacking after being at 1 HP at some point) while being at range.

Would've liked to kick the guy's head in with Ozma but alas.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Armagon

[Codename Shrimp]

chef's Kiss

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Well switching to Karna actually did the trick.

see? Told ya

[Interdimensional Observer]

18 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

chef's Kiss

Someone is unapologetically brazenly undeniably SMT in their inspiration. Copying the mechanic's name and the old-fashioned icon.