Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Acacia Sgt]

Okay, back to more pleasant thoughts...

[Armagon]

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

In a way, when you have worries like that, wondering if an Ambush Spawn will happen in a video game feels so inconsequential... I can reset for that. Not for real life.

I mean yeah sure, in the grand scheme of things it's nothing. But there's always room for discussion that doesn't matter in the long-run. 

[Acacia Sgt]

Oh, for sure, that's also true. But when it comes to me... yeah.

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Made this after thinking about how every defense of Thracia's game design i've seen is "use guides".

Complaints about Thracia are obnoxious, because they are almost always made from extreme ignorance, and it forces the defenders to bend over backwards to accommodate that ignorance. Take this memetic formatted image for example, while warp staff uses often play a pivotal role in Thracia strategy in the mid to late game (and you can get enough of them for that to be viable), full on warp skipping is rather rare, and I don't even think its even physically possible to warp skip half the chapters (unless you are just OK letting your entire deployed army be capture multiple chapters in a row, and a lot of chapters have a minimum deployment limit to keep people from cheesing that...).

The game does have a lot of secrets, obscure side objective, difficult recruitment (including the most difficult recruitment in the series), and little tricks people have figured out to make things easier, plus it has no mercy for those that don't get how Thracia's mechanics works, that playing your first run or two with a guide is suggested. In the end its one of the funnest games to replay, as the more you get how Thracia works, the more fun it is to play, and its quirks allow for some wild things that other games are too afraid to let the player have, or face.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

Either the Skip Text button is glitching out... or somehow the Dango Daikazoku refuses to be skipped over, pft...

Huh, so Fuko's random scenes are mostly just in Tomoyo's route in the VN. That's a bit of a shame, haha...

LOL Even Koumura joins in the combo. Alright, 64 Hits!

Edited December 14, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Acacia Sgt]

And with the fabled Jet Saito... I'm done. Well, the Dangopedia is not 100%, but I feel I'm just about did everything... phew.

Hmm, what next. I was thinking on finally doing that HikkikOmori playthrough, but perhaps something else quick to finish before the year ends first... or just take the rest of the month in a relaxed way reading the Clannad Side Stories...

Edited December 14, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[GuardianSing]

I am very tired.

[Eltosian Kadath]

7 minutes ago, GuardianSing said:

I am very tired.

Oh wow, you actually did the whole tower in one sitting huh. I guess we will all have to wait for your thoughts on it.

[Saint Rubenio]

9 hours ago, BrightBow said:

A flier can sneak through the river, open the door and then canto out of dodge. Then you can kill as many enemies as you want without ever engaging the executioner in combat.

All your flier needs is someone who provides a lower Res target for the guy with the Sleep tome. Ring of Vows helps against the occasional arrow but probably isn't strictly necessary. Same with the Healing Ring or popping some alcohol in advance.

Oh.

...well, eh.

9 hours ago, BrightBow said:

I do love Adelaide. "Theodel? Is that you? I hardly recognize you without the bruises and welts."

Even when she gets killed, she is like "This was so fucking worth it."

She is doing pretty well for herself for a single chapter villain, I'd say.

Yeah, she makes for a great one-off bastard. Doesn't even seem to be all that interested in power and wealth, she just got a kick out of abusing her children.

8 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Wow, you have the absolute worst luck in these games huh.

Ya win some, ya lose some.

8 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Huh, I distinctly remember getting something minor for keeping them alive, I think it was one of those growth rate boosting items that come way too late in this game, but it might be tied to other events on the map...

The guide says I should get one of the accolades. I mean, who cares, those things are useless.

8 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

That is some interesting pay off for killing those two in the earlier map. Also interesting that these are returning characters in VS2 apparently. I wonder if that will be made more consistent in the updated version of VS1 I heard vague things about being in the works...

A different game would've made Beorn and Marlena retreat when they died.

Also, not just returning in VS2, playable from chapter 1. They're half of your starting army.

27 minutes ago, GuardianSing said:

I am very tired.

I hope Oliver got the final boss kill.

[Saint Rubenio]

I must've lost four move level ups from Aynellia over the course of this run.

God fucking damn my horrible tactics.

[Armagon]

12 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Complaints about Thracia are obnoxious, because they are almost always made from extreme ignorance, and it forces the defenders to bend over backwards to accommodate that ignorance. Take this memetic formatted image for example, while warp staff uses often play a pivotal role in Thracia strategy in the mid to late game (and you can get enough of them for that to be viable), full on warp skipping is rather rare, and I don't even think its even physically possible to warp skip half the chapters (unless you are just OK letting your entire deployed army be capture multiple chapters in a row, and a lot of chapters have a minimum deployment limit to keep people from cheesing that...).

The game does have a lot of secrets, obscure side objective, difficult recruitment (including the most difficult recruitment in the series), and little tricks people have figured out to make things easier, plus it has no mercy for those that don't get how Thracia's mechanics works, that playing your first run or two with a guide is suggested. In the end its one of the funnest games to replay, as the more you get how Thracia works, the more fun it is to play, and its quirks allow for some wild things that other games are too afraid to let the player have, or face.

 

The thing about Thracia is that it's not the only Fire Emblem to have a reputation for cock and ball torture. There's Conquest, Binding Blade, Radiant Dawn and Awakening Lunatic+. But all of these have explanations:

• A lot of the Conquest CBT is pretty much in the higher difficulties. It does fall into that trap of "just hoard stuff until endgame" but if you're playing Normal, it shouldn't matter too much.
• Binding Blade is noticeably harder than the rest of GBA FE but at the end of the day it's still GBA FE. It's not really considered difficult these days but early on, i remember it was.
• Radiant Dawn is in a similar boat. It's reputation came from NoA's mistranslation.
• Awakening Lunatic+.

You say complaints about Thracia are made from extreme ignorance but I don't think that's the case. Sure, once you know what's actually happening, you can deal with it, as with anything. However, Thracia fundamentally does not set you up to learn. It sets you up to be punished. The game expects you to have already played it even if you haven't before. Would a new player, who doesn't know anything about the game, expect that they have to capture enemy units to get money for those first few chapters? I don't remember if it's an in-game tip or not but even if they knew in advance that they have to, the way capturing works is massively discouraging.

Or how about the infamous Manster arc?

You went to the next chapter without realizing this would happen and saved? Too bad, enjoy bad game design. I know the most recent patch or whatever puts in a warning but that's the thing: the game needed a fan-made patch to tell the player "this isn't like other escape maps". And if something so monumentally soft-locking is left in the game intentionally, then maybe something went wrong. Yesterday, i was notified of another soft-locking possibility

Thracia is a game that punishes you for trying to play it. You know how people rightfully dunk on Reunion at Dawn because of the soft-lock possibility if you didn't use the correct units during White Clouds? Thracia is like, what if the whole game was like this. Mechanics that aren't explained, map design that punishes you if you can't see the future. Went into 24x and you're all out of Rescue staffs and a unit got sent to the void dimension? They're effectively dead, reset.

Which loops around back to the beginning. It's an incredibly player-unfriendly game but if you have already played it before, then it's not too bad because you already know the gimmicks. Games like low-difficulty Conquest and higher-difficulty Engage are still very challenging but rarely rely on bullshit and things are generally explained to you. Binding Blade kicks you in the balls when compared to Blazing and Sacred but it's still a GBA FE. Unlike Thracia, these games aren't reliant on you seeing into the future. Hell, not even Lunatic+, given you have to have beaten Lunatic to unlock it in the first place.

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

\

😋

If this is how you build bonds, then consider this insta-A support for me swap out the salad for something else and it'd be insta-S.

---

Picross with the FoMT crew. Not the end-of-2023 game announcement I was expecting. I've some fondness for SoS, and I like picross, so sure, I'll get it.😃

PC would allow mouse use, which would be more fluid. But, busting out the bulky gargantuan lappytop for some relaxing, intensive logic-brain time fun wouldn't feel right, Switch version would be better from that perspective.

 

8 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

I am very tired.

Congrats.😀 And I hope it was enjoyable?

[Shrimp of the North]

No surprise here

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Or how about the infamous Manster arc?

What about it? One of the best FE arcs tbh

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

You went to the next chapter without realizing this would happen and saved? Too bad, enjoy bad game design. I know the most recent patch or whatever puts in a warning but that's the thing: the game needed a fan-made patch to tell the player "this isn't like other escape maps"

....it was in the old patch as well. Leaf says directly that he won't leave anyone behind.

Maybe should've been bolded or something, but it's there

12 minutes ago, Armagon said:

GBA FE but at the end of the day it's still GBA FE.

Yeah FE at it's most boring

13 minutes ago, Armagon said:

You say complaints about Thracia are made from extreme ignorance but I don't think that's the case. Sure, once you know what's actually happening, you can deal with it, as with anything

...i played Thracia as my...5th FE game iirc? I really didn't find it any hard, and thought it easier than half of those i played before (Conquest, FE4, PoR, RD)..

Although tbf, i did play with a mini guide that explained some stuff

14 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Thracia is that it's not the only Fire Emblem to have a reputation for cock and ball torture.

a highly unfounded reputation tbh

[Saint Rubenio]

24 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Would a new player, who doesn't know anything about the game, expect that they have to capture enemy units to get money for those first few chapters? I don't remember if it's an in-game tip or not but even if they knew in advance that they have to, the way capturing works is massively discouraging.

Eyvel literally says in the first scene of the game that you should try to capture enemies alive to take their stuff. Then the game gives you Finn with his brave lance and horse who can very painlessly capture most things for a while. Then, for good measure, one of the houses in the first chapter tells you weapons at stores are very expensive so you'll want to rely on capturing to resupply.

The game could not do more to ease the player into the mechanic. You'd have to be playing the game blind, as in, literally blind, to miss its importance. I don't disagree with all your points here, and liking the mechanic itself is a subjective thing, but to say that the game doesn't make it clear enough that capturing is vital is just... well, plain wrong lol.

24 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Or how about the infamous Manster arc?

This was the fault of the bad translation. The whole "if I escape, so does everyone else" thing was a mistranslation because the patch we had for a long, long time was garbage. Kind of unfair to blame that on the game when the game did warn you to have Leif escape last. We just didn't get that because of the patch.

...That being said, the whole "lord must escape last or you lose everyone left behind" is still a pretty dumb and arbitrary thing, and Kaga did away with it in all the escape maps in his subsequent games, so, eh.

24 minutes ago, Armagon said:

And yeah this chapter is just stupid. "Didn't hoard warp while simultaneously training Safy to A staves? Too bad, play this map with three less units."

Edited December 14, 2023 by Saint Rubenio

[Shrimp of the North]

Yeah the situation around status staves in Thracia is extremly bs

[Armagon]

Kaga moment.

21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

\

😋

If this is how you build bonds, then consider this insta-A support for me swap out the salad for something else and it'd be insta-S.

Finally some good food.

10 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Leaf says directly that he won't leave anyone behind.

Maybe should've been bolded or something, but it's there

Yeah it doesn't directly translate to a gameplay tip. If anything, given how many times FE Lords say they won't leave anyone behind (actually not just FE Lords, that's like a very standard protag line), you can't really fault anyone for not realizing that Leif wasn't being hyperbolic.

But it doesn't change the fact that it could very much screw you over and leave you in a permanent Reunion at Dawn situation.

13 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I don't disagree with all your points here, and liking the mechanic itself is a subjective thing, but to say that the game doesn't make it clear enough that capturing is vital is just... well, plain wrong lol.

I said i didn't remember if the game actually suggested it or not so i was giving it the benefit of the doubt. But the mechanic itself is very painful to use. Yeah, there's Finn but you'll be spending a longer time than usual that first map if he's the only one who can reliably capture.

 

[Shrimp of the North]

I like the look of this

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

But the mechanic itself is very painful to use.

a few years ago, i would've disagreed.

Now? I think capture is a big chore - but honestly it might've to do more with my growing distaste of weapon durability in FE in general.

[BrightBow]

3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

You say complaints about Thracia are made from extreme ignorance but I don't think that's the case. Sure, once you know what's actually happening, you can deal with it, as with anything. However, Thracia fundamentally does not set you up to learn. It sets you up to be punished. The game expects you to have already played it even if you haven't before. Would a new player, who doesn't know anything about the game, expect that they have to capture enemy units to get money for those first few chapters? I don't remember if it's an in-game tip or not but even if they knew in advance that they have to, the way capturing works is massively discouraging.

Eyvel tells you right from the start to capture enemies and take their weapons if possible. I doubt this was removed in the new translation.
 

5 minutes ago, Armagon said:

You went to the next chapter without realizing this would happen and saved? Too bad, enjoy bad game design. I know the most recent patch or whatever puts in a warning but that's the thing: the game needed a fan-made patch to tell the player "this isn't like other escape maps". And if something so monumentally soft-locking is left in the game intentionally, then maybe something went wrong. Yesterday, i was notified of another soft-locking possibility

It's literally the first escape map ever, so "this isn't like other escape maps" is hardly a useful tip. Heck, outside of Berwick Saga the concept was never even brought back. Escape in PoR is just another case of Seize under a different name.

But anyway, the game always told you to do that. Evidently this wasn't conveyed and executed as well as it should have, considering so many people still make this mistake. That's the risk when trying out new things. But you can't blame the game for not doing it's best to explain it.

Fortunately when the concept was brought back in Berwick Saga, it no longer matters in which order characters escape.'

14 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Oh for the love of... Sure, that's possible in theory. Just like how it's possible to soft-lock yourself in Pokemon Red & Green by trapping yourself on Cinnabar Island. ...well, except unlike in Pokemon you cannot override your sole save after making the game unwinnable. Or in any other Fire Emblem game besides Gaiden by throwing all your weapons away, I suppose.

In practice Leaf is not gonna get targeted unless he is the only available target left. Which is unlikely to say the least, given the minimum deployment requirement and the fact that Salem's Sleep Staff only has 3 charges. Every physical unit will get targeted before him. Except maybe Karin because she has an actual magic stat.
 

27 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Which loops around back to the beginning. It's an incredibly player-unfriendly game but if you have already played it before, then it's not too bad because you already know the gimmicks. Games like low-difficulty Conquest and higher-difficulty Engage are still very challenging but rarely rely on bullshit and things are generally explained to you. Binding Blade kicks you in the balls when compared to Blazing and Sacred but it's still a GBA FE. Unlike Thracia, these games aren't reliant on you seeing into the future. Hell, not even Lunatic+, given you have to have beaten Lunatic to unlock it in the first place.

"These games aren't reliant on you seeing the future"? Echidna says hi. Or she would if she didn't get killed instantly on her spawn turn by the 3 axe guys who spawned at the same time and got to move before the player even gets a chance to do anything. Binding Blade enemy spawns are utter bullocks.
Blazing Sword is also funny because knowing the future won't even help you figuring out the various chapter unlock and character recruitment requirements. The combined levels of an arbitrary selection of units or how many doors you have opened at an arbitrary turn? No one is gonna figure that out without looking it up.
Sacred Stones is fine, I suppose. Except for the Killer Lance Gargoyle on the boat map. He doesn't instantly move, but there is preciously little chance for you to spot him before he gets the chance to instant-kill one of your squishies unless you know in advance.

[Saint Rubenio]

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

The more memes like this you make, the more Kaga vibes I actually get from that guy. He probably does stand with a pair of scissors in front of his Bad Guy Red Curtains while he loudly announces his evil plans for his games.

11 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I said i didn't remember if the game actually suggested it or not so i was giving it the benefit of the doubt. But the mechanic itself is very painful to use. Yeah, there's Finn but you'll be spending a longer time than usual that first map if he's the only one who can reliably capture.

...Longer than usual? Wait, you're implying the average player is going to decide to capture every enemy on the map? Even though they all have shitty bows and spears? I mean, I don't know, but in all my Thracia runs I usually just capture like, a spear or two, a bow, maybe the boss for shits and giggles.

4 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

I like the look of this

Hey remember how I keep singing Exit Fate's praises?

This is the spiritual successor made by the creators of Suikoden, the series that directly influenced Exit Fate.

Suffice to say, I too am looking forward to this.

...Still worried that it will lack Exit Fate's genuine challenge, and keep in mind that in Suikoden "100 heroes" didn't necessarily mean "100 playable heroes" (all 75 heroes in Exit Fate are playable because EF is awesome), but if it can manage to scratch the "actually good JRPG" itch once more, it'll be a grand thing.

2 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Heck, outside of Berwick Saga the concept was never even brought back.

Well, there's a few instances in the Vestarias.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Saint Rubenio

[Shrimp of the North]

Correct me if i am wrong, but isn't Thracia Staff AI set to not target Leafy boy? atleast i remember reading it somewhere

3 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Wait, you're implying the average player is going to decide to capture every enemy on the map?

Here's the thing: If you are playing for the first time and not using an extensive guide, you don't know what's coming. And unless you trust the dev (which in the case of Kaga....lol), you will just want to have and hoard everything shiny you see

This video applies to alooooooooot of games.

[Saint Rubenio]

Just now, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Correct me if i am wrong, but isn't Thracia Staff AI set to not target Leafy boy? atleast i remember reading it somewhere

Here's the thing: If you are playing for the first time and not using an extensive guide, you don't know what's coming. And unless you trust the dev (which in the case of Kaga....lol), you will just want to have and hoard everything shiny you see

This video applies to alooooooooot of games.

You know what? If I ever make a game, I'm going to put a very important-looking shiny in a character's inventory and if it's still intact a few hours later, it causes disastrous consequences for the player. Fuck hoarding.

[Shrimp of the North]

Honestly tho, the worst thing in Thracia ain't anything we talking about there. It's those damn X chapters.

They either boring, bad, terrible or all of those. Every time i try to replay Thracia i just doze off at 2x and don't pick the run up again lmao

Edited December 14, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition-

[Armagon]

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

The more memes like this you make, the more Kaga vibes I actually get from that guy. He probably does stand with a pair of scissors in front of his Bad Guy Red Curtains while he loudly announces his evil plans for his games.

 

Live look inside Kaga's mind when he designs his games

3 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Even though they all have shitty bows and spears?

Money. In Thracia you start out with jack shit so if you don't know what to expect, then best get those moneybags full.

[BrightBow]

10 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Kaga moment.

"Kaga moment"? Yeah right. Fates literally has a molestation mini game.
Nevermind everything about Tharja.
Ah, finally, a perfect voodoo doll. Robin will have eyes only for me…

And isn't the Awakening dancer super uncomfortable with people looking at her, yet you are expected to force her to expose herself anyway? Not to mention all the shit Robin and Chrom can force the girls to wear. I have to imagine no one consented to wearing those thong armors into battle.

Unless what you are actually complaining is that the Plum thing is not conveyed effectively enough?

[Saint Rubenio]

Yeah that was a nice little overview. It didn't tell me anything I didn't already know about the game, but it was nice seeing so many things that made me go "hey that was in Exit Fate the most fun RPG ever made." The huge diversity of the characters in particular, I loved that in Exit Fate and it looks to be even better here. So much variance in the character designs, from humans to humanoids, it looks so damn creative.

I'm worried about the look of that war battle though. In Exit Fate the battles were bigger, meaner, they required some thought. Not quite FE level but they were pretty nice diversions from the general RPG gameplay. Meanwhile, even Suikoden's biggest fans admit the war battles there were basically scripted. I hope that's not the case here. Also the old guy that the player's fighting in that battle can be seen in the "100 heroes" part of the video, you're not fooling me 505 Games

On the flipside, of course, this one has vastly better budget, which means it's visually a treat and has voice acting. And this one's not being made with the influence of Something Awful dwellers, which means this game might not have the, uh... caveat, that Exit Fate had. Minor caveat, minor enough that I can get away with never bringing it up (I still did, if you recall my impressions back when I first played it), but caveat.

On a totally unrelated note, I already saw some people creep up in the... I think Steam forums? and whine about how in old, old footage the black girl wasn't featured as prominently which naturally can only mean one thing: The Wokes™ have gotten their hands on the devs and made them add a woke protagonist at gunpoint. Naturally when the competition is Generic Anime Teen #1 and #2, you can guess which of the protags I'm most interested in.

2 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Honestly tho, the worst thing in Thracia ain't anything we talking about there. It's those damn X chapters.

They either boring, bad, terrible or all of those. Every time i try to replay Thracia i just doze off at 2x and don't pick the run up again lmao

Yes. 2x is the least bad of them and it's just a massive slog.

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Money. In Thracia you start out with jack shit so if you don't know what to expect, then best get those moneybags full.

Fair.