Codename Shrimp Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said: Imagine thinking Thracia is "insane" when Berwick Saga and Vestaria Saga 2 exist. Fire Emblem fans will not survive the winter. tbf While BWS and VS2 are more unhinged They don't radiate the same Chaos energy thracia does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuardianSing Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 8 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said: Its one of those things that the large maps end up facilitating, and a bit of why I like them. I'm honestly really liking the big map focus as well. Its a welcome change from the other games. 8 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: I like how you quoted everyone getting on your case for the pawn shop and then proceeded to give us the silent treatment. Power move, Quetz. I lined them all up planning to say something in response but I completely forgot to once I posted it. Honestly though it was funnier that way so I kept it. 8 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: I want her to shoot me in the leg and then step on my face. Or the other way around. The other way around's good too. Sorry I got hacked, what were we talking about? Enlightening conversation 8 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said: In a surprise to nobody, the manga ran with this line all the way into a painful incest hell. 4 hours ago, Armagon said: In the manga, she outright wants to have sex with him. Eldigan declines tho. To be fair, Eldigan's like "no this is wrong", which i'm sure is contrary to Kaga's wishes. You know when you really think about it, Fates is the most traditional game in the modern series. 1 hour ago, Armagon said: Ordered a 512 GB MicroSD card. It's time to upgrade. Fun fact, I bought a 500 dollar laptop recently with the idea of upgrading some of it later on when I needed only to realize this specific laptop cannot be upgraded, like at all. I'm permanently stuck with 8GB of ram. Pure despair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 7 minutes ago, GuardianSing said: Enlightening conversation Hah! Well, my discord's saintrubenio. Hey, that way I can send them my demo impressions on there as well. I sent them a DM here in Serenes but they haven't returned to these parts yet. 9 minutes ago, GuardianSing said: You know when you really think about it, Fates is the most traditional game in the modern series. It has Garon. ...I'm not sure how that correlates to the point, but I just felt I'd point it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 17 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: ...I'm not sure how that correlates to the point, but I just felt I'd point it out. Evil dragon nothing more traditional than that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 O.o The Hero Lance crit animation in Engage is sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Just now, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Evil dragon nothing more traditional than that Cult-kun > Dark Dragon in terms of tradition. -Binding doesn't have Culty? -Well Thracia doesn't have the DD, Blazing's is glued on, and Stones has a non-draconic demon king but still an evil sorcerer except a bishop. And Tellius gives us no truly evil dragon, but instead Looney Lesser Evil Humanimal Absurer Sorc, and Handsome Light-Elemental Tragic So Inverted From The Norm Some Don't Even Believe He Belongs In The Archetype Sorcerer. And Rhe-rhe is a matter of perspective while the Twisties are without a doubt Cult-kun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 44 minutes ago, GuardianSing said: Fun fact, I bought a 500 dollar laptop recently with the idea of upgrading some of it later on when I needed only to realize this specific laptop cannot be upgraded, like at all. I'm permanently stuck with 8GB of ram. Pure despair. Laptops are generally not meant to be upgraded tbf. 9 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Blazing's is glued on Blazing is interesting because "the cult" hasn't actually caused the war yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Cult-kun > Dark Dragon in terms of tradition. -Binding doesn't have Culty? -Well Thracia doesn't have the DD, Blazing's is glued on, and Stones has a non-draconic demon king but still an evil sorcerer except a bishop. And Tellius gives us no truly evil dragon, but instead Looney Lesser Evil Humanimal Absurer Sorc, and Handsome Light-Elemental Tragic So Inverted From The Norm Some Don't Even Believe He Belongs In The Archetype Sorcerer. And Rhe-rhe is a matter of perspective while the Twisties are without a doubt Cult-kun. Fair Bottom line: Both suck and need to be gone from the series Also i wouldn't call Rhea an evil dragon she did nothing wrong tbh 3 minutes ago, Armagon said: Laptops are generally not meant to be upgraded tbf at most RAM and hard drive, but that's it Edited January 11 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ping Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 @Interdimensional Observer Yes, yes, I'm increasing my Inca quota from 68.3% to 68.5%. But I'm pretty sure I also planted a city on snow for the very first time in my Civ5 career, and it's not even a meme. Yes, I'd rather have had the river hill one above this position, but I wouldn't have been able to improve the crabs that way because of the ice. And those 1food/0production Terrace farms are going to be marvellous I also need to point out the audacity of this settle (and tile purchases), one or two turns after Dido asked for a declaration of friendship. The whole position is incredibly defensive, with three one-tile choke points between me on the south of the mountain ridge and Dido+Genghis on the north, so this forward settle doesn't feel as overly risky as it normally would. What would've felt way too risky is that beautiful city location north of the second choke point, next to the wheat. Dido and Genghis would murder that so hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Fair Bottom line: Both suck and need to be gone from the series You may be right, arguing about the two of them is like arguing appendectomies vs. colonoscopies. 36 minutes ago, Armagon said: Blazing is interesting because "the cult" hasn't actually caused the war yet. I mean, you can't really say the cults/evil & manipulating sorcerers are all exactly alike. Gharnef is independent and in the long-term at odds with his dark dragon. -We never see this in action though, barring his keeping of Tiki in FE1. Jedah- First aligned with the wishes of dark dragon. -Or at least he thinks he is. Manfroy- Considering the iffy draconic status of Famicom Duma, Manfroy is more firmly a worshipper of his dark dragon. That aside, he also wins big. Nergal- Gharnef-like, but in addition to what you said, his plans and everything are more fleshed out. And he really doesn't have a dark dragon at all. Lyon or Riev- Riev is underbaked, and bad. Lyon as the Evil Sorc is tricky, because he's also kinda Julius at the same time, not sure if to count him. But if he is counted, he is fairly different. Tellius, if you count Izuka, relegates the sorc to a minor role for once. If you count Sephiran instead, well as I said, he is very different. I'd also say he neither opposed to or really for his wrongful deity. He wants Ashera's judgement more because of how his own feelings of anguish than because "Oh Ashera the Almighty, the world has defied your wishes!". Validar- Uh... yeah, FE was leaning into its old archetypes too much at this point. His utterly cartoonish form that doesn't seem like he could've been born that way at all is something. And he won, totally, complete just in another world. Three House Baddies With A Ridiculous Acronym- Not really sure since I never paid attention the story. But, tech? And masterful direct manipulation not seen since Manfroy. Also, with that whole Pope Dragon person opposed to them, I get the secondhand notion that they're both geopolitically powerful, via manipulation, but also outlaws keenly feeling the pressure of the true authority of the status quo and existing order? -Doesn't mean we shouldn't consider skipping a cult for a few games. And the evil dragons. But then, what would FE be?🤔 21 minutes ago, ping said: And those 1food/0production Terrace farms are going to be marvellous As if the Incans aren't going to be beelining Fertilizer after Unis? That's 2 food you mean.😛 21 minutes ago, ping said: I also need to point out the audacity of this settle (and tile purchases), one or two turns after Dido asked for a declaration of friendship. The whole position is incredibly defensive, with three one-tile choke points between me on the south of the mountain ridge and Dido+Genghis on the north, so this forward settle doesn't feel as overly risky as it normally would. What would've felt way too risky is that beautiful city location north of the second choke point, next to the wheat. Dido and Genghis would murder that so hard. Don't you mean Theodora? And isn't she like one of the nicest AIs in the entire game? Adopt her religion instead of founding (the Byzantine bonus belief might even make it really good), and I don't think she'd be a problem? Ahmad is on the friendlier side too. As for Genghis, yeah a bit of problem. But, if you could bribe him into conquering City-States, that could keep you safe for a while. Everyone else would hate Genghis as a result and you could spend that time building an army to take his capital and then liberate those CSes for instant allies and counteract the any diplo penalty for taking Temujin's cap. Edited January 11 by Interdimensional Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ping Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 13 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Don't you mean Theodora? And isn't she like one of the nicest AIs in the entire game? Adopt her religion instead of founding (the Byzantine bonus belief might even make it really good), and I don't think she'd be a problem? Ahmad is on the friendlier side too. Whoops, of course. Must be the purple border markings that she shares with Dido. I normally prefer to get my own religion whenever I get a decent faith pantheon (and I did, 6 salt tiles with the appropriate pantheon), but with Byz next door, it might be worth considering to just accept the 1034 missionaries she's going to send my way. I don't really have Theodora pegged as particularly noteworthy in either direction, as far as war willingness goes. We'll see how she feels after the friendship dec ends. Tiwanaku should definitely be very much in her sphere of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) And Mauv joines the ranks of the Zombies, getting Echo'd to death. Solm hasn't been kind to me ;_; 15 Bld o.o Berserker sucks, however, Hero or something might work hmmm 32 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: If you count Sephiran instead, well as I said, he is very different. I'd also say he neither opposed to or really for his wrongful deity. He wants Ashera's judgement more because of how his own feelings of anguish than because "Oh Ashera the Almighty, the world has defied your wishes!". I wouldn't exactly count Sephiran myself, and imo, Tellius is the one that escapes the "Dark cult" bs the most.... But then we have the blood pact, and a supernatural bs hijacking a "human" conflict, again 32 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: lso, with that whole Pope Dragon person opposed to them, I get the secondhand notion that they're both geopolitically powerful, via manipulation, but also outlaws keenly feeling the pressure of the true authority of the status quo and existing order? Those who make no sense considering they have literal missiles 32 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: But then, what would FE be? focus on the human/political/ideological conflict without cult-kun/dragon ruining the story? I already said before, but when i played FE4 ~7 years back, i did enjoy Gen 1 writing...but Gen2 had me -unironically- going "This is Fates 1995 Edition" (or w/e)...before i discovered the rest of the series is kinda the same lol. Edited January 11 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidereal Wraith Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 29 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: I already said before, but when i played FE4 ~7 years back, i did enjoy Gen 1 writing...but Gen2 had me -unironically- going "This is Fates 1995 Edition" (or w/e)...before i discovered the rest of the series is kinda the same lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 57 minutes ago, ping said: Whoops, of course. Must be the purple border markings that she shares with Dido. I normally prefer to get my own religion whenever I get a decent faith pantheon (and I did, 6 salt tiles with the appropriate pantheon), but with Byz next door, it might be worth considering to just accept the 1034 missionaries she's going to send my way. You don't have to. A little "war", even without conquest, is an option. Just keep taking and deleting her missionaries, and you'll be of good luck if she sends a full charge prophet which you could then plant for a nondenominational Holy Site. -But then you'll be unable to peace out for like ever with her then. 57 minutes ago, ping said: I don't really have Theodora pegged as particularly noteworthy in either direction, as far as war willingness goes. I mean, 'Dora is repping Byzantium. Her husband was peak expansionist, but the historical image of East Rome is walls and clinging on to life after the Arab conquests and turtling along until the Ottomans finish the job (yes, I brushed over Basil II in saying this). 53 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: focus on the human/political/ideological conflict without cult-kun/dragon ruining the story? I was just joking with that remark. And reflecting on the fact that, for better or worse, there are things that certain franchises just can't do without. Honestly, presenting a video game as having a "dramatic political" story outside of maybe something artistically indie, will raise my suspicions. What is good political drama? And how does one keep on that track and work on developing it despite the challenges in doing so, and not resort to some kind of magical/sci-fi co-out? -Maybe I need to play more games, but I'm not sure if I've seen such a thing. Or maybe they'll bore me/leave no lasting impression. Edited January 11 by Interdimensional Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: And how does one keep on that track and work on developing it despite the challenges in doing so, and not resort to some kind of magical/sci-fi co-out? Instead of having the magic mcguffins be the end, have it be a means to an end. Have the antagonist have an interesting/good ideal to work towards, have him be competent and not easily fooled, or want to destroy humanity like an idiot. Edelgard and Rhea would've worked, if it wasn't for those who dubstep in the shadows washing away everyone's sins. Or maybe make Arvis not an absolute tool, etc. The franchise has potential that does not get explored because cult-kun/dragon always gets in the way, and it limits the writing potential to a B-tier at the very best (usually much lower) The magical way out is the coward's way out. Throwing and betraying your own themes away sucks, not matter how good the presentation is. Wanting to present multiple PoV but then have all the sins have an origin is facepalm worthy. And honestly, that's why i am not iffy on Engage's writing as everyone seems to be - it does not betrays it's centeral theme...even if it lacks an ideological conflict in a way. 25 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: -Maybe I need to play more games, but I'm not sure if I've seen such a thing. Some examples i can think of in my head, that maybe not the best, but could hint towards what i want: Tales of Berseria: Despite the existence of Innominat, the centeral conflict of the game is one of ideals, and what the extremes lead to, and the potential and compromise. Also works well with the game's revenge story. One could argue the Antagonist wanting to take away free will is a bit in the "supernatural bs" zone, but it does work really really well with themes and conflict in the game, and at the end the supernatural is a means to an end. Trails in the Sky FC only: FC is mainly a coup plot, and the ideological conflict behind it, and nationalism, rapid industrialization, propaganda, etc. And even in SC, where the "cult" takes a more active role...they are being used by someone else. And then later games went full supernatural, so let's stop here Xenoblade 2: Despite all the op stuff going on, the game is about the battle between the player party and antagonist party, and their ideological conflict defines the whole game. The villains motivations are understandable considering the world they live in (even if it needed more fleshing out), and the "supernatual being" at the end is just a "Cool bro thx" dialogue and the final battle with the antagonist we've been fighting the whole game. No hijacking bs despite the existence of many things that could hijack the story Just a few examples from the top of my head that could maybe explain what i want/meant If you ask me, the games that came closest to what i'd want from Fire Emblem writing wise is the Tellius Saga - I just wish the game didn't take the cowards way out with the Blood pact and supernatural bs at the end. Edited January 11 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 Hey! That doesn't sound gentlemanly Never Never trust Sumeragi they could be Garon in hiding Ouch Ofc i need Anthem right at the end of the fight <.< Pharaoh Muse also going through it? Your fate is sealed vs. Oversurge, Azure Striker vs. Illuminate the world! Gold Trillion Who wins? Um, what's she planning Unlimited Blade Works? So Atem can save Layla no problem, but GV has to suffer with Lumen/Joule? The writers really do hate GV lol Cool boss fight tho But what was this all about? We collected some blue thingies, fought a boss, and then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Manfroy- Considering the iffy draconic status of Famicom Duma, Manfroy is more firmly a worshipper of his dark dragon. That aside, he also wins big. It's also the first time we get a cult being the one behind everything. In Gaiden, the Duma Faithful were doing things but they were generally simply taking advantage of the situation. What's interesting is that i think it's also the first time the cult is fully depicted as totally malevolent. Before FE4, it was just the bad apples. Gharnef was on his own essentially, while the Duma Faithful is mostly bad, you did have Tatiana at least. Actually, if Halcyon is anything to go by, the Duma Faithful were alright before Jedah took it over. FE4 is where they were just bad outright, save for Saias who had a "are we the baddies" moment. You can tell it's Kaga's first time really grappling the idea because he tries to put sympathy points by saying "those suspected of carrying Lopto blood/worshipping him were burned at the stake" and....yeah that's bad. Except nearly everyone who was ever involved with Lopto so people's suspicions were right. He repeats this again in TRS. "The cult of Gerxel was oppressed, therefore, we will do exactly what they accuse us of doing, proving them right". 4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Doesn't mean we shouldn't consider skipping a cult for a few games. And the evil dragons. But then, what would FE be?🤔 3 hours ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: The franchise has potential that does not get explored because cult-kun/dragon always gets in the way, and it limits the writing potential to a B-tier at the very best (usually much lower) I think if they're going to have a cult, they need to be at the forefront. Blazing Blade and essentially Engage did this right, not trying to play tricks on who the real enemy was. Both games are essentially more of an adventure story than a war story, even if a war is happening in the latter. I think also a lot of the time is that the cult members simply aren't interesting or engaging. Most of the time it's just them going "heh heh heh" and then they die cause they suck at doing their job. I understand that there needs to be generic mooks for the less important chapters but i think the Black Fang and the Four Hounds had the right idea in having like actual members. Or not even that, just show me these guys aren't pushovers. I'm not totally opposed to a cult-like enemy because i like the Daleks but that's because no FE-cult manages to get to the level of the Daleks. 1 hour ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: But what was this all about? We collected some blue thingies, fought a boss, and then? We'll find out in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) Enemies hiding in the shadows manipulating things, huh... Shadows... that you perhaps can only see through Mirrors... As always, this is me shilling when SRW does something like FE but better perhaps... Edited January 12 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 >Game: Kirin XX now available Me: what's dat? Astra O: Hella fun to play with, but broken - why it's a post game bonus XD Boss rush cleared on first try. OP, but fun xD ???? Is that what happened after the ending? THE COPE IS HERE 42 minutes ago, Armagon said: save for Saias who had a "are we the baddies" moment and Salem + Sara, but dats FE5. 43 minutes ago, Armagon said: because he tries to put sympathy points by saying "those suspected of carrying Lopto blood/worshipping him were burned at the stake" and....yeah that's bad. Except nearly everyone who was ever involved with Lopto so people's suspicions were right. Yeah it's why imo FE4 ends up falling on it's face. It just ended up proving that Loptyr deserved everything that happened to them, and worse. Adding such a faction in a game with a political conflict in the first half is super Yikes Tbh, would've been better if Arvis was able to outmaneuver them, but his sins catching up to him eventually - and his empire breaks down, but not by cult-kun 46 minutes ago, Armagon said: Blazing Blade and essentially Engage did this right, not trying to play tricks on who the real enemy was. +1 We know from the beginning what we are dealing with, so no betrayal of expectations 46 minutes ago, Armagon said: I understand that there needs to be generic mooks for the less important chapters but i think the Black Fang and the Four Hounds had the right idea in having like actual members. they still needed to be better written tho but yeah i can get behind the general idea 47 minutes ago, Armagon said: Or not even that, just show me these guys aren't pushovers. I'm not totally opposed to a cult-like enemy because i like the Daleks but that's because no FE-cult manages to get to the level of the Daleks. One thing FE also fails at when it comes to cults is the lack of mystery - There're many stories with cults out there, but they tend to be combined with a sense of mystery, interesting lore and a strange setting of fantasy. FE fails at that big time. The only time they may have come close is those who dance in the moonlight, but they were stupid lmao. FE needs to do fantasy better in general, because FE sucks at fantasy - maybe then fantasy elements won't feel like it's something that betrays the political conflict 51 minutes ago, Armagon said: We'll find out in a few years. I thought the Epilogue would show me a bit of GV, maybe where he traveled into the past, was another dimension created, or is a paradox happening, or or or lol It felt like a cheap bait tbh, collecting these thingies only for nothing to happen kek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 For the record, Saias was never part of the Loptryian Cult. In fact, he always had to watch his back from them due to his Major Fjalar blood. He was never going to be allied with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Hella fun to play with, but broken - why it's a post game bonus XD It's a reference to her boss battle in iX 2 (DLC). I like the idea that her taking off her cloak thingy makes her stronger. 4 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: and Salem + Sara, but dats FE5. Sara's a weird thing cause she's only related to Manfroy. I don't think she was ever part of the cult itself. Of course, being an FE5 character means she never actually gets to meet the guy (she hates him). Wonder if they can include her in an FE4 remake. 8 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: Adding such a faction in a game with a political conflict in the first half is super Yikes TRS did the same thing. Most of the game actually devotes time to the kingdom vs empire plot and it was fairly good. But then the last 10 chapters hit and Kaga was like "but hold on, can't forget the cult". And it does the same thing as FE4. "Oh our faith is prosecuted for doing the very things they accuse us of doing". Actually, it's worse, because there's a settlers vs indigenous conflict rooted here, a lot of Gerxel worshippers were Zoans, the people indigenous to the continent. Most of the Zoans in the game just happen to be the ones worshipping the evil demon hellbent on destroying the world, which is a very interesting thing to depict Mr. Kaga. The few that aren't are the good guys. We could've had a proper conflict here... 21 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said: It felt like a cheap bait tbh, collecting these thingies only for nothing to happen kek Idk what they were cooking but it was a free meal at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Okay, got all the sea enemies on the Bestiary. Soon it will be time to say goodbye to the Enterprise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Armagon said: I like the idea that her taking off her cloak thingy makes her stronger. Anime rule 46: less clothes = more power 26 minutes ago, Armagon said: We could've had a proper conflict here F And IS still sticks with damn cult for some reaaon Like IS experiments alot, except with the damn setting... 26 minutes ago, Armagon said: Idk what they were cooking but it was a free meal at least. Fair Now give me Azure Magical Girl Joule, with time travelling GV as her side kick Edited January 12 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) Okay, time to fight Garuda! Not that Garuda... Alright, Dragoon with double Wind Spears, don't let me down! Edited January 12 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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