The plot twist Breath if the Wild should have had

[Jotari]

Breath of the Wild is pretty thin on plot. What little story there is focuses almost entirely on the character of Zelda via flashbacks. And the non linear nature of it means it's not even really plot, and more just giving you a full scope of who she is as a person and understanding her psyche. This is cool and fine and all. But then you beat the game and it's just "yay after fifty hours of collecting Korok seeds you finally did the thing". Nothing actually happens other than defeating Ganon. The goal, the story and the result are all exactly the same.

So what's my suggestion? After Link saves Zelda, she's old. That's it. Just susbstitue her character model for that of an aged up old woman. This isn't something I've seen anyone suggest but surely I can't be the only one who has mused over it. It just makes a glaring amount of sense to me for a number of reasons.

1) It's logical. Sure it's fantasy and any bullshit excuse can be concocted, but I see no good reason why spending a hundred years in a swirling vortex of evil should have such positive impacts on one's health.

2) It's poignant. It gives the ending more bite. Link saves the day, but he didn't entirely save Zelda. The years she has spent fighting Ganon have taken a toll on her. She is not the young maiden you've been learning about throughout the game. That girl is gone and what remains is a woman, tired of fighting that needs to learn how to live again. What happened was significant and it's etched into her skin.

3)It's subversive. Yeah, yeah, I know subverting expectations became a bit of a meme after The Last Jedi. And yes, subverting expectations for shock value and shock value alone as a gotcha to the audience leaves a hollow and empty story. But there still is merit in subverting expectations as for this case it wouldn't be done for shock value alone. It would be something new. A new take on Zelda, not just a new design for the character, but a new way if looking at her and what she could be after thirty+ years. Just visually it would be a very distinctive look for her that would give more identity the Breath of the Wild (not that identity is something Breath of the Wild is exactly lacking in).

 

This was something I was hoping for on my first playthrough of the game, but it wasn't something I was ever seriously expecting. Because having a forefront character outside of the teens to thirty age range, and especially a woman, in such media is just inconceivable to the extent that the makers probably never even thought about it despite making perfect sense mechanically. But I find that a weak excuse. That audiences are only interested in young characters they can relate too could be something of a chicken and egg story. It's what people relate to because it's almost the entirety of what they get in media. But in truth age is just one aspect of a character,  what truly makes a character relatable is their emotions. There are plenty of classic and popular old characters in fiction (almost all of them men), Zelda in Breath of the Wild should have been one of them.

What do you think?

*I haven't mentioned the sequel because it isn't out yet. But unless they're going with a Snowwhite plot I see absolutely nothing they could do that also couldn't be done with an aged up Zelda.

**And this plot point has been done with Impa. Both in Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild itself (though not as a twist), but Impa as a character was an old woman to start with and has always been more minor. It would be a lot more impactful if done with Zelda imo.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Jotari

[AnonymousSpeed]

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Breath of the Wild is pretty thin on plot.

As it should be.

[B.Leu]

Personally, I would have killed her off, it's even more cruel, but also keep the sense of freedom 'Link' or 'us' had while playing the game, instead of taking it away. Link now have to learn/keep living for himself instead of being a good Doggo Knighto for the Zeldo, that was an excuse in BotW1 but with a certain wangst backstory, but is now even more of an an excuse in BotW2.

  

8 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

As it should be.

Oh yeah, that too. They were completely off the rails with their plots.
It's annoying seeing devs pushing a 'plot' in open worlds.

Edited June 16, 2022 by B.Leu

[Jotari]

58 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

As it should be.

That wasn't a criticism of the game, just in case itncame across that way for me. Breath of the Wild's minamilism is perfectly fine with me.

[indigoasis]

Honestly, I think that would have been really cool. I think it makes sense for Link to be the physical age that he is since that can be attributed to being sealed away in the Shrine of Resurrection, so Sheikah magic is keeping him young... probably. As for Zelda, I assume it was the same deal; she was sealing herself away to keep Calamity Ganon contained (not to mention she has some power of the Triforce at her disposal, so that would probably have some impact in her aging), so she would have more or less been in a "stasis" just like Link, which is probably why she didn't physically age (oh, and so she can be used in the sequel or something).

At the same time, she probably could have aged, too. There's precedent for characters aging during a time of being sealed away. Link in OoT ages 7 years in order to be able to properly wield the Master Sword (even though I bet he could have totally used it like the Great Fairy's Sword as a kid). Ganondorf in between OoT and WW/TP doesn't seem to age very much, but he at least grows a beard, so he must have aged at least a little bit.

I would actually really like to see the dynamic between Link and Zelda if they had a significant age gap, like between a child/young-adult Link and an adult/older Zelda.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

It would certainly be a surprise to see her like that. My expectation when playing was that she was long dead. Or, to make it more G rated, she "lives on" in the Sacred Realm which is basically the Heaven of the Zelda universe. Then she can become a force ghost like the other Champions and thank Link for his hard work before we roll credits. 

[Jotari]

Oh yeah, intended to add, but forgot to do so, everything I said also applies to Aqua in Kingdom Hearts 3. Only substitute Old Age for Middle Age.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

I mean, even if she had aged... well, that's what Purah's runes are for. Unless that too would get changed.

[vanguard333]

I don't think Zelda being physically over 100 years old would have helped with Breath of the Wild's story. She'd already gone through a lot, and I think it made sense for Breath of the Wild to end on the two of them reuniting and setting out together.

My problem with the ending is that it creates too much expectation for the sequel; the game ends on the two of them reuniting and setting out together, so that creates the expectation that any sequel will show us the two of them adventuring together; the sequel going "Nope; they've been separated again" would undermine the first game's ending as a result. Unfortunately, Nintendo's track record with Zelda sequels has been to do exactly that; Wind Waker ended on Link and Tetra setting out together in search of new lands, and then Phantom Hourglass opened with Tetra getting turned into a statue and spending the rest of the game as a statue. That got more complaints than any other part of Phantom Hourglass, including the touchscreen controls and the temple of the ocean king.

 

Personally, I think the solution to Breath of the Wild's thin story would be to have a spinoff focused on story. Since Breath of the Wild takes place in the aftermath of a calamity, a prequel game about said calamity would be ideal for such a spinoff as it would then complement Breath of the Wild greatly. Yeah; a prequel to Breath of the Wild that takes place during the calamity would be perfect for giving us the story that was lacking in Breath of the Wild. Nintendo should really make such a game.

I mean, hypothetically, if Nintendo were presented with a way to make such a game, only for them to turn around and make something that isn't actually a prequel and instead gives some weird alternate-timeline where the calamity is prevented before it can begin, that would just be a massive waste of a perfect opportunity. Thankfully, it's just a hypothetical...

Spoiler

In case it isn't obvious, this is a criticism of how Age of Calamity was an alternate-timeline story instead of an actual prequel.

 

[Lord_Brand]

I would have hated if the game ended with Zelda being old. All that time and effort would feel wasted. No, I'm fine with Link and Zelda reuniting the way they did. I wish they could have reunited near the beginning of the game and traveled together. Ever since ALttP, they've had potential for a game where Link and Zelda travel together, yet the closest we've come to that is Spirit Tracks and there Zelda spends most of the game as an incorporeal ghost that can't interact with most characters. I want an honest-to-goodness Link and Zelda adventure.

On a related note, I also want an honest-to-goodness romance dynamic between Link and Zelda. The series has teased it for years, and we even got a couple instances of Zelda outright kissing Link (on the cheek at least), but we've never really gotten to see them as a proper couple. It's high time they took it to the next level. I want a Zelda game where Link and Zelda's couple dynamic permeates how they interact, like holding hands whenever Link helps Zelda up a cliff or when sidling along a wall, or watching them cuddle up together when resting under a tree. It doesn't have to be all lovey-dovey all the time, but I want to see affection and intimacy. Link/Zelda has long been my favorite video game couple, and I'm aching for a game that realizes their potential as such.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Lord_Brand

[vanguard333]

6 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

I would have hated if the game ended with Zelda being old. All that time and effort would feel wasted. No, I'm fine with Link and Zelda reuniting the way they did. I wish they could have reunited near the beginning of the game and traveled together. Ever since ALttP, they've had potential for a game where Link and Zelda travel together, yet the closest we've come to that is Spirit Tracks and there Zelda spends most of the game as an incorporeal ghost that can't interact with most characters. I want an honest-to-goodness Link and Zelda adventure.

On a related note, I also want an honest-to-goodness romance dynamic between Link and Zelda. The series has teased it for years, and we even got a couple instances of Zelda outright kissing Link (on the cheek at least), but we've never really gotten to see them as a proper couple. It's high time they took it to the next level. I want a Zelda game where Link and Zelda's couple dynamic permeates how they interact, like holding hands whenever Link helps Zelda up a cliff or when sidling along a wall, or watching them cuddle up together when resting under a tree. It doesn't have to be all lovey-dovey all the time, but I want to see affection and intimacy. Link/Zelda has long been my favorite video game couple, and I'm aching for a game that realizes their potential as such.

Hopefully we will get that with the sequel. Part of me is still hoping we will get that in the sequel, as not getting that would be a real disservice after how Breath of the Wild ended.

That would be nice to see. Explicit romance is unlikely to happen given that this is Nintendo, but it would be nice.

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

I would have hated if the game ended with Zelda being old. All that time and effort would feel wasted. No, I'm fine with Link and Zelda reuniting the way they did. I wish they could have reunited near the beginning of the game and traveled together. Ever since ALttP, they've had potential for a game where Link and Zelda travel together, yet the closest we've come to that is Spirit Tracks and there Zelda spends most of the game as an incorporeal ghost that can't interact with most characters. I want an honest-to-goodness Link and Zelda adventure.

On a related note, I also want an honest-to-goodness romance dynamic between Link and Zelda. The series has teased it for years, and we even got a couple instances of Zelda outright kissing Link (on the cheek at least), but we've never really gotten to see them as a proper couple. It's high time they took it to the next level. I want a Zelda game where Link and Zelda's couple dynamic permeates how they interact, like holding hands whenever Link helps Zelda up a cliff or when sidling along a wall, or watching them cuddle up together when resting under a tree. It doesn't have to be all lovey-dovey all the time, but I want to see affection and intimacy. Link/Zelda has long been my favorite video game couple, and I'm aching for a game that realizes their potential as such.

Why would the time and effort be wasted? It would just be her outside reflecting the reality of her inside. Unless you think there's some kind inherent inferiority to appearing old. She is a hundred year old woman, and unlike Link she has actually experienced those hundred years in some form.

[Lord_Brand]

It would take away from the happy ending we and Link deserve after going through all that trouble. It would feel like a slap to the face, a mockery of our effort and expectations, like the game was going "Haha, you saved the princess, but she's an old woman now. Sucks to be you!" If they'd sprung that on us, BotW would probably have become one of my least favorite Zeldas. I might even have outright hated it.

Besides, Zelda has divine blood in her. For all we know, that may well imbue her with some kind of longevity or even eternal youth. At any rate, it's clear she wasn't existing in a normal form during her imprisonment of Ganon.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Lord_Brand

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

It would take away from the happy ending we and Link deserve after going through all that trouble. It would feel like a slap to the face, a mockery of our effort and expectations, like the game was going "Haha, you saved the princess, but she's an old woman now. Sucks to be you!" If they'd sprung that on us, BotW would probably have become one of my least favorite Zeldas. I might even have outright hated it.

I just really don't get that way if thinking. Yes, there's some heightened level of tragedy to be able to see the effects of what she went through, but those effects are still there wether they're seen or not. Zelda appearing young doesn't mean she is. Unless saving Zelda is measured purely about how fuckable she is on a visual level or someone is just highly discriminatory towards the concept of the elderly (but even that doesnt make sense since she still is an old woman), how can it be a slap on the face? It's not like young women are the only demographic who are worth saving. He still did the thing. In both scenarios Link's efforts achieve the same results. The only difference being a superficial appearance that is less standard for the story and more logical.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Jotari

[vanguard333]

On 6/17/2022 at 6:01 PM, Jotari said:

I just really don't get that way if thinking. Yes, there's some heightened level of tragedy to be able to see the effects of what she went through, but those effects are still there whether they're seen or not. Zelda appearing young doesn't mean she is. Unless saving Zelda is measured purely about how fuckable she is on a visual level or someone is just highly discriminatory towards the concept of the elderly (but even that doesn't make sense since she still is an old woman), how can it be a slap on the face? It's not like young women are the only demographic who are worth saving. He still did the thing. In both scenarios Link's efforts achieve the same results. The only difference being a superficial appearance that is less standard for the story and more logical.

For one thing, how is the royal line supposed to continue if Zelda reappears as an old lady? Hyrule would be doomed to lose the bloodline that carries the very important sealing power.

[Acacia Sgt]

Still think they'd just run her through Purah's reverse-aging runes...

Edited July 2, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Lord_Brand]

Hopefully fine-tuned so Zelda doesn't end up a six-year old.

[AnonymousSpeed]

On 6/16/2022 at 4:28 PM, Jotari said:

Breath of the Wild is pretty thin on plot.

So I actually decided to read the post and, uh...

On 6/16/2022 at 4:28 PM, Jotari said:

After Link saves Zelda, she's old. That's it.

I kinda like it. I don't know if you'd agree with this statement, but I think that would kind of suck in-universe. That gives it a more bittersweet flavor, which I enjoy. However, @Lord_Brand and @vanguard333 don't like the idea, and their opinion is probably more valuable than mine. They've doubtless played the game more than me, so what they find fulfilling is probably more important.

On 6/17/2022 at 9:01 PM, Jotari said:

Unless saving Zelda is measured purely about how fuckable she is on a visual level or someone is just highly discriminatory towards the concept of the elderly (but even that doesnt make sense since she still is an old woman), how can it be a slap on the face?

itt: Jotari wants to have sex with old women.

[vanguard333]

2 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I kinda like it. I don't know if you'd agree with this statement, but I think that would kind of suck in-universe. That gives it a more bittersweet flavor, which I enjoy. However, @Lord_Brand and @vanguard333 don't like the idea, and their opinion is probably more valuable than mine. They've doubtless played the game more than me, so what they find fulfilling is probably more important.

I understand why people would like the idea: Zelda games have never really been one to pull punches with their endings; even Wind Waker ended with Hyrule being washed away and the king drowning to death. That said, when they do give happy endings, it usually is one that fits the themes of the game; Majora's Mask had a strong theme of defying seemingly-inevitable doom; that even when things look absolutely bleak and hopeless, they aren't, and the game's best ending fits that by showing that everything you did to help everyone across the many 3-day cycles ultimately did matter in the end. I've seen people who only saw the bleakness of the game argue that the ending was an anti-climax, and I couldn't help but think that they were missing the point.

In the case of Zelda being her young self when saved, I think it does fit the themes of the game: Breath of the Wild's story, what amount of it there is, does have a strong theme of bouncing back after failure: you can't undo past failures, but it's what you do about it now that matters (that's one reason I'm not a fan of Age of Calamity's plot even outside of it having been falsely-advertised, as it does go back and undo past failures). I think Link and Zelda being reunited the way they are does fit that theme far better than if she returned as an old lady.

[Jotari]

19 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

itt: Jotari wants to have sex with old women.

Just one old woman; and she looks younger than me.

16 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I understand why people would like the idea: Zelda games have never really been one to pull punches with their endings; even Wind Waker ended with Hyrule being washed away and the king drowning to death. That said, when they do give happy endings, it usually is one that fits the themes of the game; Majora's Mask had a strong theme of defying seemingly-inevitable doom; that even when things look absolutely bleak and hopeless, they aren't, and the game's best ending fits that by showing that everything you did to help everyone across the many 3-day cycles ultimately did matter in the end. I've seen people who only saw the bleakness of the game argue that the ending was an anti-climax, and I couldn't help but think that they were missing the point.

In the case of Zelda being her young self when saved, I think it does fit the themes of the game: Breath of the Wild's story, what amount of it there is, does have a strong theme of bouncing back after failure: you can't undo past failures, but it's what you do about it now that matters (that's one reason I'm not a fan of Age of Calamity's plot even outside of it having been falsely-advertised, as it does go back and undo past failures). I think Link and Zelda being reunited the way they are does fit that theme far better than if she returned as an old lady.

Old could still fir into that theme depending on how you frame it. You can't change the past, it's what you do now that matters, the past failure is still a failure which Zelda can't undo, just like her age, but she can look positively towards the future, optimistic and happy that Ganon has been defeated now.