Great idea or horrible idea, a rule 63 seasonal

[Tybrosion]

Sure, why not. A Rule 63 seasonal couldn't possibly be less interesting than the kiddy seasonal banner.

[Xenomata]

9 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Sure, why not. A Rule 63 seasonal couldn't possibly be less interesting than the kiddy seasonal banner.

Whatever could you mean??? Such a banner would provide canonical answers to an age-old question:
How big would a dude's chest be if he were a girl?
I, for one, think anyone drawn by Okuma Yugo as a dude could put Camilla out of a job!

THIS IS A SARCASTIC COMMENT.

[Jotari]

I like the child banners when they're actually showing off stuff that's already been established, like mute Soren. But that also means I'm very much peeved when they ignore stuff we already know about, like Pegasus Knight Minerva. Showing actual child designs we've already seen before is also kind of cool, like kid Ike and Mist whom we saw in Radiant Dawn. Funny they haven't went the obvious routes yet and given us the Ram Village kids or Dimitri/Edelgard.

[XRay]

I would not say no to Reinhardt being a waifu. That would be pretty awesome. Magic is everything, and magic can do anything!

Plumeria being a guy would be pretty funny.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

23 hours ago, Jotari said:

Do you think you could articulate why you feel that way (not being snarky, I expect some people to just not like the idea, hence the title, I'm just not sure why even if I kind of get it).

I despise this kind of fanservice, it's always done in the poorest and ickiest taste. You know all they'd do with Roy or Ike is give them giant breasts to sex them up. Plus, as others have mentioned, it'd just be an excuse for them to give us a female version of male characters not yet in the game, instead of actually giving us those characters.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I despise this kind of fanservice, it's always done in the poorest and ickiest taste. You know all they'd do with Roy or Ike is give them giant breasts to sex them up. Plus, as others have mentioned, it'd just be an excuse for them to give us a female version of male characters not yet in the game, instead of actually giving us those characters.

No doubt, but, then, they're already doing that with female Avatars. So are avatars a bad thing for that reason?

[Armchair General]

4 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I despise this kind of fanservice, it's always done in the poorest and ickiest taste. You know all they'd do with Roy or Ike is give them giant breasts to sex them up. 

But on the other hand, they might just turn them into reasonably sized tomboys and call it an day

[Humanoid]

Yeah, if a male character isn't popular enough to get into the game of their own accord, then somehow I doubt they're going to be one of the 3-4 a year characters chosen for something like this. It'd be the most popular characters for sales reasons. Hell, I'm pretty sure Hector would probably be the very first pick for the additional comic value.

No doubt the outfits would be somewhat sexed up, but I would think the maximum would be around the level of the avatars, e.g. F Corrin and F Byleth with some of their odd choices.

[XRay]

7 hours ago, Humanoid said:

Hell, I'm pretty sure Hector would probably be the very first pick for the additional comic value.

Hectrina:
- Royfinily, get your seductive hands off of my innocent upstanding boy Lictor and stop whispering in his ear! He does not need to know how pegasi deliver babies to parents yet! (Stop embarrassing me, ma! I am a grownass man! I know how procreation works!)
- Eliflower, I know you are my bestie and all, but can you tell your daughter to cover herself up more? I know it is in the middle of summer in the middle of Nabata, but I do not want her to give Lictor any strange ideas. And tell her to stop moving so seductively when wielding her sword. (My daughter was literally dodging multiple lances from a cavalry charge!)
- I am NOT jealous that so many ladies are attracted to Lictor. He is a handsome smart boy after all. But he just attracts the wrong sort of girls. I cannot just have Lictor marry a noblewoman who is less than noble and a peasant girl will not fly either. I know, I know, we have not been that noble ourselves either, Eliflower, and we have no idea who the fathers of our children are. But do not get me started on that Sacaen swordsman that double timed us!

Edited May 12, 2023 by XRay

[Fire Emblem Fan]

14 hours ago, Jotari said:

No doubt, but, then, they're already doing that with female Avatars. So are avatars a bad thing for that reason?

Yes.

[vikingsfan92]

I think the biggest obstacle by far is not in heroes itself but the real world.  In any medium gender swapping is an extremely mixed bag of people with some pretty strong feelings on both side. Not sure IS really wants to open the potential can of worms atm. Especially since Nintendo doesn't really have a great mobile track record in general and this is one of the few hits they have had.  Nintendo might not have an active hand in development but their name is still viewable when you boot the game up so they probably have some amount of say on stuff that might be seen as rocking the boat. Plus with things like Bowsette existing I could see Nintendo being off any gender swap stuff in general for certain franchises where they more directly develop/ fund.

[Othin]

7 minutes ago, vikingsfan92 said:

Plus with things like Bowsette existing I could see Nintendo being off any gender swap stuff in general for certain franchises where they more directly develop/ fund.

If only they weren't cowards.

[Midnox]

I’m actually surprised that hasn’t happened by now

[coldhand25]

Would be one of the few seasonals I'd be hype about, I'm really curious how some of the characters would turn out! Would they just swap the gender? Turn their personality around as well? Make canon ships canon but genderswapped?

Then again, as an average side character enjoyer, most of my favs would not be included, as always, but as long as FE8 characters are on the banner I'm good

[Etrurian emperor]

I'd be skeptical of it. Given the current state of Heroes adding rule 63 alts would just doom the male end of the spectrum completely. They already are almost always not the star of the banner, almost always the demote or frequently have states inconsistent with their role or popularity. That shouldn't get any worse. I mean why would IS ever invest in a good male character if they can just do that character but with boobs.

 

[Ice Dragon]

10 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'd be skeptical of it. Given the current state of Heroes adding rule 63 alts would just doom the male end of the spectrum completely. They already are almost always not the star of the banner, almost always the demote or frequently have states inconsistent with their role or popularity. That shouldn't get any worse. I mean why would IS ever invest in a good male character if they can just do that character but with boobs.

If you make the unit actually good, it will be used, boobs or not.

Brave Seliph is probably the single most commonly used unit I've seen in Aether Raids defense and in Summoner Duels R.

Fomortiis is popular as a Far Save unit even outside of his season and in other game modes. Young Hector is the Far Save unit I have the most trouble dealing with (partly because Rebecca can't straight-up one-shot him like she can do with Fomortiis), though Harmonized Awakening Tiki hasn't been around long enough for me to see her used often enough to compare.

The male demotes themselves have also been of no worse quality than the female demotes starting from the most recent Winter banner, as long as you assume the units without an Arcane weapon appropriate for their stat spread will eventually get one. (Desert Male Byleth, Bastian, and Sylvain are currently missing Arcane options. Winter Annette, Etie, and Valentine Hana didn't have one at release, but got one later. Saul and Summer Larchel don't have one, but it doesn't really matter when their default weapons are so good.)

[Humanoid]

Fomortiis has great boobs though.

[Jotari]

15 hours ago, Humanoid said:

Fomortiis has great boobs though.

I was going to edit something, but it turns out his meet the heroes artwork is already half way there

In a semi serious question...how certain are we actually that Fomortiis is male? Lyon certainly is, but I struggle to imagine any dialogue that could conclusively confirm him as such, other than an obvious need for pronouns in an English translation. I wonder what personal pronouns an arrogant evil bastard like that uses in the Japanese version (well I say I wonder, but I could go check now and know I won't because I'm feeling lazy today).

Edited June 23, 2023 by Jotari

[Othin]

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I was going to edit something, but it turns out his meet the heroes artwork is already half way there

In a semi serious question...how certain are we actually that Fomortiis is male? Lyon certainly is, but I struggle to imagine any dialogue that could conclusively confirm him as such, other than an obvious need for pronouns in an English translation. I wonder what personal pronouns an arrogant evil bastard like that uses in the Japanese version (well I say I wonder, but I could go check now and no I won't because I'm feeling lazy today).

I looked over his Japanese Heroes text and I'm not sure he uses any? Maybe he only refers to himself as "The Demon King".

https://feheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Fomortiis:_Demon_King/Quotes

[Ice Dragon]

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

I wonder what personal pronouns an arrogant evil bastard like that uses in the Japanese version (well I say I wonder, but I could go check now and know I won't because I'm feeling lazy today).

Gender-agnostic archaic "我" (ware). It was likely chosen for Fomortiis to use specifically because it's archaic since he's been stuck in a rock for 800 years. In non-literary modern usage, it's exclusively used in the plural as either "我ら" (warera) or "我々" (wareware), "we" or "us", or in the possessive as "我が" (wa ga), "my".

As for the Meet the Heroes page, Sharena exclusively refers to Fomortiis by name, which is not unusual.

 

I can't find a full game script for The Sacred Stones in Japanese, but I was able to find the script for the final chapter.

The only time Fomortiis is referred to with a third-person pronoun is when Ephraim refers to him by "奴" (yatsu), which is gender-agnostic and either colloquial or pejorative (the latter in this case). All other cases, he is referred to either by name or title.

There are, however, two places where he is referred to as "the king of demons". Ephraim uses "魔物どもの王" (mamono-domo no ō), and Artur uses "魔物たちの王" (mamono-tachi no ō), both having the same meaning, "king of demons". While "王" (ō), "king", is technically gender-agnostic, it leans masculine due to the fact that there is no word for "king" that is strictly masculine.

And if you take tropes into account, despite it being extremely unlikely that a large non-human creature would have the vocal cord structure to make a human feminine voice, almost all female large non-human fictional creatures capable of human speech are still voiced with a human feminine voice for the purposes of character coding.

 

My conclusion is that Fomortiis is most likely either male or genderless.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Ice Dragon

[Othin]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Gender-agnostic archaic "我" (ware). It was likely chosen for Fomortiis to use specifically because it's archaic since he's been stuck in a rock for 800 years. In non-literary modern usage, it's exclusively used in the plural as either "我ら" (warera) or "我々" (wareware), "we" or "us", or in the possessive as "我が" (wa ga), "my".

As for the Meet the Heroes page, Sharena exclusively refers to Fomortiis by name, which is not unusual.

 

I can't find a full game script for The Sacred Stones in Japanese, but I was able to find the script for the final chapter.

The only time Fomortiis is referred to with a third-person pronoun is when Ephraim refers to him by "奴" (yatsu), which is gender-agnostic and either colloquial or pejorative (the latter in this case). All other cases, he is referred to either by name or title.

There are, however, two places where he is referred to as "the king of demons". Ephraim uses "魔物どもの王" (mamono-domo no ō), and Artur uses "魔物たちの王" (mamono-tachi no ō), both having the same meaning, "king of demons". While "王" (ō), "king", is technically gender-agnostic, it leans masculine due to the fact that there is no word for "king" that is strictly masculine.

And if you take tropes into account, despite it being extremely unlikely that a large non-human creature would have the vocal cord structure to make a human feminine voice, almost all female large non-human fictional creatures capable of human speech are still voiced with a human feminine voice for the purposes of character coding.

 

My conclusion is that Fomortiis is most likely either male or genderless.

That same kanji was used for Naga as well, right? I remember people assuming she was male for a long time.

[Jotari]

18 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Gender-agnostic archaic "我" (ware). It was likely chosen for Fomortiis to use specifically because it's archaic since he's been stuck in a rock for 800 years. In non-literary modern usage, it's exclusively used in the plural as either "我ら" (warera) or "我々" (wareware), "we" or "us", or in the possessive as "我が" (wa ga), "my".

As for the Meet the Heroes page, Sharena exclusively refers to Fomortiis by name, which is not unusual.

 

I can't find a full game script for The Sacred Stones in Japanese, but I was able to find the script for the final chapter.

The only time Fomortiis is referred to with a third-person pronoun is when Ephraim refers to him by "奴" (yatsu), which is gender-agnostic and either colloquial or pejorative (the latter in this case). All other cases, he is referred to either by name or title.

There are, however, two places where he is referred to as "the king of demons". Ephraim uses "魔物どもの王" (mamono-domo no ō), and Artur uses "魔物たちの王" (mamono-tachi no ō), both having the same meaning, "king of demons". While "王" (ō), "king", is technically gender-agnostic, it leans masculine due to the fact that there is no word for "king" that is strictly masculine.

And if you take tropes into account, despite it being extremely unlikely that a large non-human creature would have the vocal cord structure to make a human feminine voice, almost all female large non-human fictional creatures capable of human speech are still voiced with a human feminine voice for the purposes of character coding.

 

My conclusion is that Fomortiis is most likely either male or genderless.

That's actually a lot more going for a gender neutral Fomortiis than I was actually expecting.

[Ice Dragon]

16 hours ago, Othin said:

That same kanji was used for Naga as well, right? I remember people assuming she was male for a long time.

Naga's case was complicated by the fact that she is depicted as male on a tapestry in the opening cutscene for Mystery. However, in Genealogy, she is said to have taken the form of a young girl (presumably as Tiki or in an appearance similar to Tiki's) when the crusaders received their divine weapons, and she has been female ever since.

 

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

That's actually a lot more going for a gender neutral Fomortiis than I was actually expecting.

Logically speaking, in universe, it's most likely that humans would simply refer to him as male for convenience due to how he was perceived by them.

It's uncertain if Magvel's monsters outside of Fomortiis himself even have enough sapience to develop a concept of gender separate from sex, and combined with the fact that he's a one-of-a-kind creature, there would be no little or no need for Fomortiis to have a concept of gender for himself when nothing else around him does.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Naga's case was complicated by the fact that she is depicted as male on a tapestry in the opening cutscene for Mystery. However, in Genealogy, she is said to have taken the form of a young girl (presumably as Tiki or in an appearance similar to Tiki's) when the crusaders received their divine weapons, and she has been female ever since.

While I've always preferred the idea of a gender flipping Naga, I have to confess, even in that opening art, Naga isn't exactly super masculine in design.

Like, there are no boobs, so it's not overtly female, but zoom in on that face and it does look like something akin to Athena.

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Logically speaking, in universe, it's most likely that humans would simply refer to him as male for convenience due to how he was perceived by them.

It's uncertain if Magvel's monsters outside of Fomortiis himself even have enough sapience to develop a concept of gender separate from sex, and combined with the fact that he's a one-of-a-kind creature, there would be no little or no need for Fomortiis to have a concept of gender for himself when nothing else around him does.

Well Tarvos certainly seem to be drawing from male humanoid designs while Gorgons are derived from female designs. That being said, aside form the zombies, it doesn't seem like the monsters in Fire Emblem games are earthly creatures that have evolved so to speak. Their more like super natural beasts born from evil forces itself.

[Jotari]

Coming to think of it, we actually do have something resembling a canon rule 63 alt, that being Linde disguised as a boy.

Though I find her disguise honestly a bit lacking in the various incarnations we've had so far. Seeing a full body image putting a bit more effort into boying her up could be cool. Maybe there could be a dedicated banner for disguised units.