To Become an Elitist [Playlogs FE1-5] [currently playing: Thracia 776]

[Saint Rubenio]

10 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

Waitwhat

Not to worry, I fixed it

10 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

And she's one of the lucky ones.

Which one, Minerva? Yeah, at least she gets to fight with axes after she gets rescued by two dashing princes in a row. And in book 1, zero complaints, she's just plain badass there. They didn't dare to captuer her, so they had to capture her sister instead.

...Of course, the one whose character ends up suffering for all the Kagaing is the sister. I think Ruben put it best.

2 hours ago, gnip said:

Just give Lilina 20 Def. Boom, problem solved. Balance is a problem for future Ruben.

They fly, Gnip. I could giv 'em 30 def and they'd still get eaten up by the archers.

2 hours ago, gnip said:

..actually, I think you're misremembering a bit. Silver Bows have 11 might, which gets tripled vs. flyers, so Silver Bow Snipers have 40+ attack against flyers, which is enough to one-shot base Minerva's 22+14 physical bulk. The Sniper on the next map only carries a Crossbow, with 7 Str according to FEWoD, which would be 22 vs. Minerva, which would be 2x8 damage without a crit. Still impressive, though.

Huh... Yeah, I must be misremembering that particular sniper's loadout. I mean, it's impressive that she could survive a shot from a sniper alone, so I may've filled the gaps in my mind.

3 hours ago, gnip said:

That said, "Crossbow" means that the Sniper had 25 crit, because making what's effectively a weaker Killer Bow standard equipment on enemies is fun and balanced, so you weren't even particularly unlucky to be crit there. Almost a coinflip, actually, at a 7/16 chance of at least one crit.

...Stupid fucking FE1.

3 hours ago, gnip said:

a Speed Ring (+6 Spd). This one is easier. Darros. Roshe would be an option, but he's fairly close to getting to 11 Spd from promoting, so I'd have to save it up until then. (again, I doubt that what I would think is the "correct" pick, Minerva, is going to be a popular option) (I could also let Linda have it, just to spite the imperialist)

I would say save it for a bishop. From bishop's base 14 speed, you can cap out their speed, and then they can stand up against the likes of Camus and Garnef.

Not to worry, though - in the same chapter where you get the first mage promo item, you also get a speed ring. Possibly this is intentional, come to think about it. The numbers are too perfect. So give this one to whoever and use that one on your sage.

[ping]

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

They fly, Gnip. I could giv 'em 30 def and they'd still get eaten up by the archers.

I gotchu, 30 Def and a free Delphi Shield

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I would say save it for a bishop. From bishop's base 14 speed, you can cap out their speed, and then they can stand up against the likes of Camus and Garnef.

Not to worry, though - in the same chapter where you get the first mage promo item, you also get a speed ring. Possibly this is intentional, come to think about it. The numbers are too perfect. So give this one to whoever and use that one on your sage.

I wonder what bishop you mean specifically....

Good information about the second Speed Ring, though.

[Punished Dayni]

3 hours ago, gnip said:

• a Goddess Icon (+7 Luck). Since Lck doesn't mitigate incoming crit rates, but increases your own crit chance instead, this would work best on somebody who already has a decent crit chance (i.e. Skl and Lck), but isn't close to capping Lck. The "correct" recipient, I think, might be Kain (10 Skl, 7 Lck), so I expect nobody to agree with this pick. Maji (5 Skl, 6 Lck) would be an option to appease the imperialist, or maybe save it for Tomas, who can use Crossbows to increase his crit.
• a Speed Ring (+6 Spd). This one is easier. Darros. Roshe would be an option, but he's fairly close to getting to 11 Spd from promoting, so I'd have to save it up until then. (again, I doubt that what I would think is the "correct" pick, Minerva, is going to be a popular option) (I could also let Linda have it, just to spite the imperialist)
• a Power Ring (+4 Str) from the boss in the upcoming chapter. Clearly, we're saving this for until Sheeda promotes. Realistically... probably Maji or Julian. Raddy, once he gets another Str proc to reach Hero's base, could be an option, too.
• a Manual (+5 WLv) from a chest in ch.12. Julian.
• the Boots (+4 Move) from another chest in ch.12. Mars. Sorry, I'm going to be boring here. I'd consider funnier options if other characters were able to visit villages.

  I think I'll agree with the Tomas opinion, Darros is too perfect not to pick and I don't have any comments on the others.

18 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...Of course, the one whose character ends up suffering for all the Kagaing is the sister. I think Ruben put it best.

Fallen Maria: Kidnaps you

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Yeah, at least she gets to fight with axes after she gets rescued by two dashing princes in a row

I don't know if I'm the best judge, but I feel like neither of the two could be fittingly described as such.

If one of you makes a joke about Marth dashing in Smash I'll-

This comment has been censored in the name of decency.

[ping]

2 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

I don't know if I'm the best judge, but I feel like neither of the two could be fittingly described as such.

If one of you makes a joke about Marth dashing in Smash I'll-

This comment has been censored in the name of decency.

Hey, Maria thinks he's dashing

[Shaky Jones]

17 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Initial positioning is important, devs.

Yeah, like a good example of bad placement would be trapping a frail lord away from their team with only a frail druid and a creature with 0 luck as their defense. Imagine doing that. 

17 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Minerva is super badass in this game. Legit tankier than the knights, and she flies. For reference, in the next map, there's a sniper with a silver bow. She can eat a hit from him and keep going.

...Provided she doesn't get crit. Sigh...

Yep. I'll die on the hill of "save states aren't cheating if the game is cheating you" with that complete rng garbage.

17 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

n FE12 he's just a bore without a personality that joins in a chapter filled with zerkers with hammers. For years I had no idea the character had such robust writing in him, because I only had FE12 to go by. Yeah, I finished 12 before 11. Years before, in fact. For the pettiest reason too, I wanted to keep Frey but normal mode was boring. It was only when the full content patches began to come out that I finally got around to it.

Ruben refusing peak Fire Emblem over a guy designed to die:

Poor Horace. Next FE12 run, I'm using him for sure. Sniper Horace actually seems decent. Perhaps his support will be as peak as the dialogue of his origin. 

17 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Even then, Boa joins in two chapters. Wendel may be a promoted bishop 13 chapters before anyone else can promote, but Boa is one speed behind a promoted sage 6 chapters before anyone else can promote. Maria is still getting thrown into the bench at mach 10 speed the second that guy shows up lol

This really puts into perspective how done dirty Maria is. Riff is your chapter 2-3 healer. Lena is your chapter 4 healer and Matthis recruiter. She is also the wielder of Hammerne, but FE1 hammerne sucks imo. Wendel is the actual healer you will always use. If you got him killed sometime close to chapter 12, you simply wait until Boah. If he died early on, like his own damn joining chapter, only then will a unit like Lena matter with warp, and then you'd replace her with Maria for only 2 chapters, unless you also lose Boah early on, but unless the crit rng just specifically hates old people, how are you losing Wendel and Boah, but but not your clerics? If you're not losing these units or not ironmaning it like most FE players honestly, Maria serves no purpose. You'll likely value Riff and Lena just a littble bit for whatever time you have with them, but Maria is completely situational. Yes, that's Kaga's design with half of the cast, but given the state of FE1 healers, she suffers the most from the ironman mindset design.

17 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

too like Minerva. She's quite a badass. I was so sad over her untimely demise that I made a point to bring her back with the Om over the other seven or eight chaps I lost.

...who then gets Kaga'd in Book 2 alongside the rest of the female cast, but they can't all be as blessed as Sylvis, I suppose

At least she's still fun to use...

Well she's not quite as fun as FE1 and especially not DSFE, but I still used her and enjoyed myself, although given the 4 units you have to bring for the good ending, it feels more like an obligation, which something I never like whenever replaying fe3/fe12.

17 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

This has not worked with modern FE

It's Joever. We lost boys.

17 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

Her character seems to fit the stereotype of how people see the BinB cast to be honest.

I like the FE6 cast, but I really don't see much in people like Miledy. At least Lot and Wade are cool Bord/Cords with their family thing going on at chapter 10B, and Diek looks cool too. But we all know that the prepromotes are the coolest characters in FE6.

17 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

Yeah, my experience with PoR Jill was messier.

What do you mean -6 Spd from average for most of the game?

This wouldn't have happened if she had just stuck to her original beliefs.

9 hours ago, gnip said:

Balance is a problem for future Ruben

Ruben when Shaky Jones urges him to not release his hack in a possibly broken state.

 

C'mon. Won't one of you playtest FE6 but awesome?

9 hours ago, gnip said:

• a Goddess Icon (+7 Luck). Since Lck doesn't mitigate incoming crit rates, but increases your own crit chance instead, this would work best on somebody who already has a decent crit chance (i.e. Skl and Lck), but isn't close to capping Lck. The "correct" recipient, I think, might be Kain (10 Skl, 7 Lck), so I expect nobody to agree with this pick. Maji (5 Skl, 6 Lck) would be an option to appease the imperialist, or maybe save it for Tomas, who can use Crossbows to increase his crit.
• a Speed Ring (+6 Spd). This one is easier. Darros. Roshe would be an option, but he's fairly close to getting to 11 Spd from promoting, so I'd have to save it up until then. (again, I doubt that what I would think is the "correct" pick, Minerva, is going to be a popular option) (I could also let Linda have it, just to spite the imperialist)
• a Power Ring (+4 Str) from the boss in the upcoming chapter. Clearly, we're saving this for until Sheeda promotes. Realistically... probably Maji or Julian. Raddy, once he gets another Str proc to reach Hero's base, could be an option, too.
• a Manual (+5 WLv) from a chest in ch.12. Julian.
• the Boots (+4 Move) from another chest in ch.12. Mars. Sorry, I'm going to be boring here. I'd consider funnier options if other characters were able to visit villages.

This is one of those moments where you laugh at Kaga for completely unbalanced boosters, then pray at his shrine for the serotonin you feel using these things, growing hatred for overly balanced gameplay. This is how he gets ya.

I appreciate you caring about my superior origins, but honestly I'd recommend Tomas for the icon. Maji would love the power ring though, and I'd love you for one day.

Roshe can be fine enough methinks. At least he can promote and is a mount. Darros really needs that to sail.

Aw yea, it's killin edge time!

Mars boots. More like Bantu Boots. It was made for him.

9 hours ago, gnip said:

(I could also let Linda have it, just to spite the imperialist)

When Shaky Jones recommends good units:

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

..Of course, the one whose character ends up suffering for all the Kagaing is the sister. I think Ruben put it best.

Kaga trying to make a woman her own character (He mistook Minerva for a man)

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

..Stupid fucking FE1.

still better than fe3 huh...

16 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

I think I'll agree with the Tomas opinion, Darros is too perfect not to pick and I don't have any comments on the others

Just say Maji

[Saint Rubenio]

2 hours ago, gnip said:

I gotchu, 30 Def and a free Delphi Shield

That's... an idea, to be sure.

2 hours ago, gnip said:

I wonder what bishop you mean specifically....

Guess.

2 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

I don't know if I'm the best judge, but I feel like neither of the two could be fittingly described as such.

I mean... Eh? Michalis has a nice coat. Oversized collars are always nice. But that's about it.

1 hour ago, Shaky Jones said:

Yeah, like a good example of bad placement would be trapping a frail lord away from their team with only a frail druid and a creature with 0 luck as their defense. Imagine doing that. 

Jerk.

1 hour ago, Shaky Jones said:

Ruben refusing peak Fire Emblem over a guy designed to die:

Ahaha! Now that's something I wasn't expecting.

1 hour ago, Shaky Jones said:

Perhaps his support will be as peak as the dialogue of his origin. 

As I recall? Not really, but oh well, what can you do.

2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Ruben when Shaky Jones urges him to not release his hack in a possibly broken state.

At some point I have to commit. I can't keep such a simple thing in the backburner for years.

2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

C'mon. Won't one of you playtest FE6 but awesome?

I can confirm it is, indeed, FE6 but awesome

2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Kaga trying to make a woman her own character (He mistook Minerva for a man)

She has short hair, I guess I can't blame an old man like him for making the mistake.

2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

still better than fe3 huh...

Yes.

[ping]

• FE1 Chapter 11: Knorda Market

Spoiler

The proud capital of 1000 years' history, Pales, lies beyond these mountains.
Robbed of its valuable treasures... Many imprisoned soldiers within...
Mars's long journey had finally reached one of its fateful destinations...

Indeed, we're getting to the good stuff now...

____

...like turning Darros into a... well, speed demon would be pushing it, considering that he's still weighed down to 9 Spd by an Iron Axe, but that's still a respectable number.

I fielded Zagero (Sedgar) because I was doing something I seldom do: Planning ahead. Tomas will join next map, so Zagero was going to pick up some bows and the Goddess Icon in order to get it to him quickly.

__

This map has a lot of running around, too, but I think it does it quite a lot better than the previous one. For one, there's some light harrass coming from the two Pegasi coming from the north - nothing major, but at least it grabs your attention. If I recall, they do one-round Wryf with their Javelins, although I'm doubly safe from that with Wryf being body-blocked from them and Mars... not.

With Minerva joining, you also have a bulky flyer to throw at the Mercs guarding Linda's village. In fact, she's even slightly too bulky for this, because the Mercs are not going to attack her - but with my Sheeda being fairly bulky, too (10 Def, baby), I was able to kill most of them before Mars even got close to the gate north of all the houses. So - far fewer "dead turns" than the previous maps, making this map considerably less tedious.

__

During the fight, Roshe and Sheeda get to Lv.10, which is appreciated for both. Roshe still has some time to maybe get another level or two, since he probably won't get his hands on the Knight's Crest from next chapter near the end of the map, if not near the start of the next one. Sheeda obviously has even more time, but with 3 Str, it's also nice that I don't really need to go out of my way to get her kills. She'll be really really good! ...eventually.

____

I sent Wendell along with Mars to maybe warp him to the throne after getting Linda (clearly, now is the time to bench the pope to make place for the growth unit), but decided against it. The backtracking isn't nearly as egregious as in Banutu's joining map, and the main group is slowed down considerably...

...by that nasty Minerva-killing bugger in the top left of the screen, so Mars only took one or two extra turns to get to the castle, anyway. Most characters don't fancy being doubled and potentially crit by him, so it's up to either somebody fast (Kain speed-ties him)...

...or bulky enough to survive two crits.

__

The Sniper is honestly the true boss of the map, so once he goes down (and Kain confirms that the Ballistician next to Jake doesn't move), the rest of the map is just cleaning up. Merric kills the boss (and secures the Power Ring), Roshe and Kain kill the non-moving Ballistician.

(For the record: You don't need to visit Anna's house in order to recruit Jake in this game. Sheeda just happens to know random soldiers on the enemy's side)

What an epic battle.

(the things you do to save an Excalibur charge)

____

Good map overall. Nothing super special about it, but it... works in its simple ways. Nicely done, Kaga.

The Team:

	Lv  	HP  Str Skl WLv Spd Lck Def
Mars	7.21	23    8   7   6   9  11   7
Kain	13.87	30    9  11  15  14   7   8
Wryf	10.88	18    1   5   4   7   2   3
Darros	12.53	30   10   2   9  16   6   8	(+6 Spd)

Julian	7.31	30    6   8   2  15  10   4	(+9 HP)
Marich	9.07	25    1   6  12   9   8   7
Roshe	10.80	25    9  10   9   9   4   7
Wendell	2.68	22    3   1  11  14   5   8

Banutu	1.89	18    2   3   2   4   1   3	(base)
Raddy	5.88	20    7  10   8  11   2   6
Miverv	1.80	22    9   3  10   6   4  14	(base)
Zagaro	1.52	base

Sheeda	10.15	19    3  14  13  20  14  10
Hardin	7.54	20    9   7  10   9   4   8
Linda	1.00	20    1   4   7   7   7   3	(base)
Jake	1.38	20    5   1   8   3   7  14	(base)

• Linda has been part of the conversation already, so I don't have that much to add. 20 dmg good. 40 dmg even better, if you get her to double, which isn't too tall a task considering her 60% Spd growths. She's also the first character with a higher crit growth than Sheeda - only by 10%, but it's a fun little fact.
• Jake doesn't have the most inspiring stats, but the ability to attack from 10 tiles range is somewhere between overpowered and hilariously broken. Since he doesn't have that in this game, he's a fun novelty (an Armor Knight by another name that uses Bows by another name), but also really bad, between his nonexistant Spd (ballistae are heavy) and low movement. Ballistae do hit really hard, so that's at least something.

 

22 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

I appreciate you caring about my superior origins, but honestly I'd recommend Tomas for the icon. Maji would love the power ring though, and I'd love you for one day.

29 hours and I'll consider it.

22 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Yeah, like a good example of bad placement would be trapping a frail lord away from their team with only a frail druid and a creature with 0 luck as their defense. Imagine doing that. 

Skill issue, tbh

"I think the map is more fair now and I might even suggest letting the reinforcements escalate again a little bit." - me, last november

20 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

That's... an idea, to be sure.

What can I say, balance is my passion.

Edited September 6, 2023 by gnip

[Shaky Jones]

Computer's gone for repairs, so phone serenes it is. No high quality Shake posting from me. 

42 minutes ago, gnip said:

...like turning Darros into a... well, speed demon would be pushing it, considering that he's still weighed down to 9 Spd by an Iron Axe, but that's still a respectable number.

It's funny how even nowadays, a speedwing in a game like 3 Houses would still be considered one of the best items even when the stat bloating leads to it making you 3% closer to not being doubled by the 34 AS paladins, but in FE1 it was simply conjured up as a "give this to a unit you want to double", and that was fine. Like if you weren't an FE guy given that this is the first game, you'd be like "yeah that makes sense. Cool" instead of "brooo Kaga don't know nutin on game balance lmao". 

41 minutes ago, gnip said:

She'll be really really good! ...eventually.

FE Gamefaqs 2009:

41 minutes ago, gnip said:

...or bulky enough to survive two crits.

Eyyy

41 minutes ago, gnip said:

For the record: You don't need to visit Anna's house in order to recruit Jake in this game. Sheeda just happens to know random soldiers on the enemy's side

She would...

41 minutes ago, gnip said:

Good map overall. Nothing super special about it, but it... works in its simple ways. Nicely done, Kaga.

FE12 fans: PTSD

45 minutes ago, gnip said:

Linda has been part of the conversation already, so I don't have that much to add. 20 dmg good. 40 dmg even better, if you get her to double, which isn't too tall a task considering her 60% Spd growths. She's also the first character with a higher crit growth than Sheeda - only by 10%, but it's a fun little fact.

Me: " Aura seems nice. Excalibur can't last forever. Maybe I could use a 2nd tome user next to Wende-"

*Boah appears*

it's joever

47 minutes ago, gnip said:

Jake doesn't have the most inspiring stats, but the ability to attack from 10 tiles range is somewhere between overpowered and hilariously broken. Since he doesn't have that in this game, he's a fun novelty (an Armor Knight by another name that uses Bows by another name), but also really bad, between his nonexistant Spd (ballistae are heavy) and low movement. Ballistae do hit really hard, so that's at least something.

Kaga must've loved tanks.

 

One day I'll get to Tear Ring.

20 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Ahaha! Now that's something I wasn't expecting.

There's some hidden treasures here. I can use them like you used SoHaE posting to troll me.

21 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

As I recall? Not really, but oh well, what can you do

...are they at least not funny footsteps?

21 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Yes

FE3's gonna be quite the experience in this thread, but im honestly more excited to see FE2 for some reason.

And then I'll get banned off Serenes when FE4 comes.

[Punished Dayni]

7 minutes ago, gnip said:

• Linda has been part of the conversation already, so I don't have that much to add. 20 dmg good. 40 dmg even better, if you get her to double, which isn't too tall a task considering her 60% Spd growths. She's also the first character with a higher crit growth than Sheeda - only by 10%, but it's a fun little fact.
• Jake doesn't have the most inspiring stats, but the ability to attack from 10 tiles range is somewhere between overpowered and hilariously broken. Since he doesn't have that in this game, he's a fun novelty (an Armor Knight by another name that uses Bows by another name), but also really bad, between his nonexistant Spd (ballistae are heavy) and low movement. Ballistae do hit really hard, so that's at least something.

Linda be Linda, Jake be in his weakest form.

But Jake ain't in MotE, so maybe him and Beck?

10 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Kaga must've loved tanks.

 

One day I'll get to Tear Ring.

USE 👏 TOM

12 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

And then I'll get banned off Serenes when FE4 comes.

......

I am curious and afraid for why.

[Saint Rubenio]

3 hours ago, gnip said:

...by that nasty Minerva-killing bugger in the top left of the screen

There he is. Piece of piss.

3 hours ago, gnip said:

Linda has been part of the conversation already, so I don't have that much to add. 20 dmg good. 40 dmg even better, if you get her to double, which isn't too tall a task considering her 60% Spd growths. She's also the first character with a higher crit growth than Sheeda - only by 10%, but it's a fun little fact.

The real problem is that she gets weighed down by 7 by aura. Right now she has zero speed with it. It will be a tall order to get her to double.

3 hours ago, gnip said:

Jake doesn't have the most inspiring stats, but the ability to attack from 10 tiles range is somewhere between overpowered and hilariously broken.

On the bright side, Wooden Cavalry works so much better when the enemy force doesn't have that range.

2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Kaga must've loved tanks.

 

One day I'll get to Tear Ring.

You'd love Tom. And Bartz.

2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

There's some hidden treasures here. I can use them like you used SoHaE posting to troll me.

I will look forward to seeing more of your Tick Quest screenshots folder.

1 hour ago, Punished Dayni said:

USE 👏 TOM

Tommy boy.

1 hour ago, Punished Dayni said:

....

I am curious and afraid for why.

His hatred for Genealogy is legendary.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Saint Rubenio

[Shaky Jones]

1 hour ago, Punished Dayni said:

USE 👏 TOM

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

You'd love Tom. And Bartz.

How convenient for Venom Dayners.

I trust Ruben knows my taste in units, although I'm still trying to get my brother involved in this somehow, but he's rather stubborn when it comes to funny hypnosis man. I'll really try to get into it next year.

8 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

His hatred for Genealogy is legendary.

It's peerless.

10 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

There he is. Piece of piss.

Well thats just not nice.

[ping]

FE1 Chapter 12: Pales, Akaneia

Spoiler

____

Unfortunately, we're back to more questionable map design with this one.

Not because of this initial part - this is reasonably interesting, with only FE1's incredibly clunky item management bringing it down a bit if you don't have a door key on an appropriate unit.

I guess I just could've kept them locked in and killed the enemies surrounding them, but then Thomas wouldn't have gained 68 XP nor could've used the Goddess Icon right away.

But what actually sucks about the map is what follows - firstly, basically no enemies, which means that there's once again a lot of meaningless unit movement going on.

Pictured: Me not realising that the two Clerics are standing on pillars, reducing the Sniper's movement, thus assuming that the Sniper doesn't move and is just there to guard the door. However, also pictured is that not really mattering, because the Clerics block the Sniper from attacking anybody fighting the boss.

__

In conclusion: This part of the map is annoying to navigate, without offering an interesting challenge. And, even worse, it doesn't end there...

...because you then have to wait for your thief (unless you brought another door key) to open a door behind the throne room, in order to kill the Nazi Paladin...

(seriously, why)

...and grab the Knight Crest (or NiteCrst, as character limitation dictates) from him and the Boots from the chest.

__

So, sorry Kaga - you had a pretty good start designing this map, but unfortunately didn't keep up at all. Let's see how the next map goes. I'm actually curious, since it's the map that will become the awful, awful ballistae map in the DS remake: Will it be catharsis to play that map without that bullshit, or will it still be a pain in the butt to fight through a million ballisticians, all with like 15 Def?

But before ending this, a bit of book keeping:

First of all, what the fuck Roshe. Can you guess what Paladin has as a Speed base...?

Well, if you said "eleven", you would be correct. As a result, Roshe doesn't even get all that much out of the promotion - +1 movement and +2 Def are nice, of course, but he needed a lot less a-fixin' from the promotion than one would ever expect.

Next: Julian can use Kill.

And a skeleton has been appeased.

The Team:

	Lv  	   HP  Str Skl WLv Spd Lck Def
Mars	8.11	   23    9   7   6   9  12   8
Kain	15.66	   31   10  13  16  14   8   9
Darros	13.66	   31   10   2   9  16   6   8	(+6 Spd)
Julian	7.36	   30    6   8   7  15  10   4	(+9 HP, +5 WLv)

Marich	10.19	   26    1   6  13  10   9   7
Roshe	12/1.21	   27    9  11  10  11   4   9
Wendell	3.20	   23    3   1  12  15   5   8
Raddy	6.69	   21    8  11   8  11   2   6

Minerv	2.26	   22   10   3  10   6   5  15
Zagaro	1.52	   base
Maji	9.40	   26   12   5   7  12   6   7	(+4 Str)
Tomz	4.00	   20    8   6   7   5   3  12	(base)

Mishln	3.00	   18    8   5   5   3   4  11	(base)
Thomas	8.68	   20    7   6   9   5  11   6	(base / +7 Lck)
Boah	1.00	   22    4   7  10  15   4   6	(base)
Midia	1.00	   20    7  11  10   9   7   9	(base)

• Tomz and Mishln sure are characters that are in Fire Emblem: Dark Dragon. On first glance, one might consider them sidegrades to Roger, with an extra point of Str and a few extra points of Spd, but slightly lower Def and HP. However, Roger can use Silver at base while the tooth fairies can't, which renders any offensive advantage kinda moot. Pretty darn bad, honestly.
• Thomas is another character that has been discussed a bit already: questionable bases and low growths, but still pretty viable because the Sniper promotion is so close. Gaggle's potential, but without most of the tedium of leveling him up.
• Boah would've been even faster than Wendell had the pope not procced Spd this very chapter. Otherwise, he's a bit less durable than Wendell (-2 Def), but otherwise pretty interchangable, which is to say pretty darn good.
• Midia seems like a decent filler, but not the greatest long-term project even though her growths are quite decent. But her bases are actually lower than Paladin bases, so it would take her a bit to catch up to even the weakest possible recipient of this chapter's Knight Crest. Nevermind the part where Kain kinda stomps any competition (and I presume that so would Abel).

 

3 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

FE Gamefaqs 2009:

To be fair, doubling everything with Jeigan's Silver Lance is a pretty strong feature in the earlygame, even with her noodle arms. Sheeda seems like a character that's good early, kinda bad in the midgame (although she still managed to do just fine in Knorda Market, doubling enemy Mercs with, yes, Jeigan's Silver Lance), and then suddenly really good again once you finally get that Dragon Whip.

3 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

It's funny how even nowadays, a speedwing in a game like 3 Houses would still be considered one of the best items even when the stat bloating leads to it making you 3% closer to not being doubled by the 34 AS paladins, but in FE1 it was simply conjured up as a "give this to a unit you want to double", and that was fine. Like if you weren't an FE guy given that this is the first game, you'd be like "yeah that makes sense. Cool" instead of "brooo Kaga don't know nutin on game balance lmao". 

I know I just said "balance is my passion" in this very thread today, but I very secretly think that calculated imbalances make Fire Emblem games better. Don't tell anybody. I gather that you don't particularly like Milady, but I find her to be great example of a character that's utterly OP if you compare her to her peers (like, Shanna and Thea's powerlevel is a joke compared to hers), but she's still not going to trivialise the game on her own, so she doesn't invalidate everybody else, either. And on the other side of the spectrum, much fun has been had with Wendy and maybe even with Sophia.

3 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

But Jake ain't in MotE, so maybe him and Beck?

Oh god

I mean, I can field them once in a while and have that amount to absolutely nothing because Kaga gave the dudes four move. FOUR MOVE. I'm having trouble finding that much stuff to do for Banutu, and he has six.

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

The real problem is that she gets weighed down by 7 by aura. Right now she has zero speed with it. It will be a tall order to get her to double.

Well, I have on good authority that the next map will have a ton of enemies with zero speed, so she'd have a decent chance at doubling those after a level or two.

But I guess she does suffer from the fixed, level-independent XP gain of NES FE, since she won't level up all that fast (not like she's going to enemy phase swarms of enemies) and skimming over FEWoD a little, getting to 3-4 AS would be pretty impactful. Makes her pretty RNG dependent for a good while.

[Saint Rubenio]

5 minutes ago, gnip said:

Fun fact: This is one of the most custom portraits any of the non-major bosses get. Sure, it looks like the generic general sprite, but if you look closely, he's wearing a different outfit. Impressive, huh.

6 minutes ago, gnip said:

First of all, what the fuck Roshe. Can you guess what Paladin has as a Speed base...?

Well, if you said "eleven", you would be correct. As a result, Roshe doesn't even get all that much out of the promotion - +1 movement and +2 Def are nice, of course, but he needed a lot less a-fixin' from the promotion than one would ever expect.

lol

Speedroche

6 minutes ago, gnip said:

Tomz and Mishln

Mishln lol. That sure is a name.

7 minutes ago, gnip said:

Boah would've been even faster than Wendell had the pope not procced Spd this very chapter. Otherwise, he's a bit less durable than Wendell (-2 Def), but otherwise pretty interchangable, which is to say pretty darn good.

I forgot Boa actually had one more base speed than pope rather than one less. Holy shit, the old people. Interchangeable? If you're not fielding both you're doing it wrong, and I'm the good unit hater.

7 minutes ago, gnip said:

Well, I have on good authority that the next map will have a ton of enemies with zero speed, so she'd have a decent chance at doubling those after a level or two.

But I guess she does suffer from the fixed, level-independent XP gain of NES FE, since she won't level up all that fast (not like she's going to enemy phase swarms of enemies) and skimming over FEWoD a little, getting to 3-4 AS would be pretty impactful. Makes her pretty RNG dependent for a good while.

Still, I will say, it is fun to nuke things with aura.

8 minutes ago, gnip said:

I know I just said "balance is my passion" in this very thread today, but I very secretly think that calculated imbalances make Fire Emblem games better.

Whatever would we do without bad units, I do have to admit.

[ping]

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Mishln lol. That sure is a name.

The .org wiki transcribes his name as Mishelan/Misheran, so I think it's pretty reasonable considering the character limit. I do have to wonder if my man is named after the tyre manufacturer.

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Still, I will say, it is fun to nuke things with aura.

Quite so. Boah and Wendell now have the option to out-damage a single Aura hit by doubling with the boss's Volganone tome, but that's pretty limited at 13 charges.

[Punished Dayni]

20 minutes ago, gnip said:

I mean, I can field them once in a while and have that amount to absolutely nothing because Kaga gave the dudes four move. FOUR MOVE. I'm having trouble finding that much stuff to do for Banutu, and he has six.

I don't blame you.

20 minutes ago, gnip said:

...because you then have to wait for your thief (unless you brought another door key) to open a door behind the throne room, in order to kill the Nazi Paladin...

(seriously, why)

...and grab the Knight Crest (or NiteCrst, as character limitation dictates) from him and the Boots from the chest.

On the one hand, you kill Himmler.

On the other hand, Godwin's law risk and who wins there?

20 minutes ago, gnip said:

Next: Julian can use Kill.

Julian to an unsuspecting foe:

20 minutes ago, gnip said:

• Tomz and Mishln sure are characters that are in Fire Emblem: Dark Dragon. On first glance, one might consider them sidegrades to Roger, with an extra point of Str and a few extra points of Spd, but slightly lower Def and HP. However, Roger can use Silver at base while the tooth fairies can't, which renders any offensive advantage kinda moot. Pretty darn bad, honestly.
• Thomas is another character that has been discussed a bit already: questionable bases and low growths, but still pretty viable because the Sniper promotion is so close. Gaggle's potential, but without most of the tedium of leveling him up.
• Boah would've been even faster than Wendell had the pope not procced Spd this very chapter. Otherwise, he's a bit less durable than Wendell (-2 Def), but otherwise pretty interchangable, which is to say pretty darn good.
• Midia seems like a decent filler, but not the greatest long-term project even though her growths are quite decent. But her bases are actually lower than Paladin bases, so it would take her a bit to catch up to even the weakest possible recipient of this chapter's Knight Crest. Nevermind the part where Kain kinda stomps any competition (and I presume that so would Abel).

Domz and Michellin, bad class, bad stats, bad availability. You know what you must do /s What game are these guys viable in?

Tomas, well we all know what the plan is with him, so no point in debating it. Bolted on, will kill all the foes, right?

As for Boah, I feel like not being on side with the others in this thread is a call against hats, which will end poorly.

And RIP Midia, I forgot before you've said it that promos in this game are baselines, unfortunate for her.

Edited September 6, 2023 by Punished Dayni

[Shaky Jones]

5 hours ago, gnip said:

Unfortunately, we're back to more questionable map design with this one.

Really? I love this map. Very fun to re-experience each run and I even remember gushing over it in someone's FE11 LP (honestly I was a bit too critical of it thinking back)

5 hours ago, gnip said:

Not because of this initial part - this is reasonably interesting, with only FE1's incredibly clunky item management bringing it down a bit if you don't have a door key on an appropriate unit.

aaand there it is. the feature that Ruben pretends isn't as bad as a UI that actually tells you the stats of your battles.

Honestly, this alone ruined 90% of the game for me. Most maps are 70% worse for this reason. It irks me so. If there's a mod that fixes this, I'd be much nicer. Give me that and an actual combat window, and I might actually really like FE1.

5 hours ago, gnip said:

But what actually sucks about the map is what follows - firstly, basically no enemies, which means that there's once again a lot of meaningless unit movement going on

You're gonna love Genealogy.

5 hours ago, gnip said:

Pictured: Me not realising that the two Clerics are standing on pillars, reducing the Sniper's movement, thus assuming that the Sniper doesn't move and is just there to guard the door. However, also pictured is that not really mattering, because the Clerics block the Sniper from attacking anybody fighting the boss.

You didn't memorize the pillars from DSFE? Fake fan smh.

5 hours ago, gnip said:

...because you then have to wait for your thief (unless you brought another door key) to open a door behind the throne room, in order to kill the Nazi Paladin...

Wait, they don't chase you as the map starts? Damn. I should be giving even more credit to DSFE. 

Does this map still have the reinforcement cavs from behind? If not, I think I can see why this map might suck for you in FE1. This map feels made to be ambushed from both sides as you progress. Hard to believe that wasn't utilized during its conception.

5 hours ago, gnip said:

Next: Julian can use Kill.

POV: You're on guard duty

Mmmm, chest

5 hours ago, gnip said:

And a skeleton has been appeased.

6 hours ago, gnip said:

Tomz and Mishln sure are characters that are in Fire Emblem: Dark Dragon. On first glance, one might consider them sidegrades to Roger, with an extra point of Str and a few extra points of Spd, but slightly lower Def and HP. However, Roger can use Silver at base while the tooth fairies can't, which renders any offensive advantage kinda moot. Pretty darn bad, honestly

You use them for the face, or you bleach your eyes because of their face. There is no in-between.

6 hours ago, gnip said:

Thomas is another character that has been discussed a bit already: questionable bases and low growths, but still pretty viable because the Sniper promotion is so close. Gaggle's potential, but without most of the tedium of leveling him up.

You have no idea how often I hear arguments in favor of FE11 Tomas. He's got quite the dedicated fanbase.

There is no way he's bad in FE1, unless you hate all archers, but then you're boring.

6 hours ago, gnip said:

Boah would've been even faster than Wendell had the pope not procced Spd this very chapter. Otherwise, he's a bit less durable than Wendell (-2 Def), but otherwise pretty interchangable, which is to say pretty darn good.

Wendel always procs speed right before it starts to seem not as insane.

6 hours ago, gnip said:

To be fair, doubling everything with Jeigan's Silver Lance is a pretty strong feature in the earlygame, even with her noodle arms. Sheeda seems like a character that's good early, kinda bad in the midgame (although she still managed to do just fine in Knorda Market, doubling enemy Mercs with, yes, Jeigan's Silver Lance), and then suddenly really good again once you finally get that Dragon Whip.

And dishonor your most loyal soldier? Pah!

 

Spoiler

To ruin my own joke, I was mainly referring to how popular units like Amelia and Nino were always the big talk of FE in the old days where being a prepromote was the equivalent of playing New Vegas and not liking it (you belong on a cross). Ya know, "She gets good.....eventually". Old but gold.

6 hours ago, gnip said:

I know I just said "balance is my passion" in this very thread today, but I very secretly think that calculated imbalances make Fire Emblem games better. Don't tell anybody. I gather that you don't particularly like Milady, but I find her to be great example of a character that's utterly OP if you compare her to her peers (like, Shanna and Thea's powerlevel is a joke compared to hers), but she's still not going to trivialise the game on her own, so she doesn't invalidate everybody else, either. And on the other side of the spectrum, much fun has been had with Wendy and maybe even with Sophia.

I agree with you that calculated imbalances are a prefect imperfection for a series like Fire Emblem where numbers are very finicky. 

I disagree with you about Milady. A lot.

She absolutely can trivialize the game. Heck, in my first hard run, I practically made her solo arcadia and the following gaiden map with no trouble. And given that by now, most of us are aware about hard mode bonuses being a glitch, her stats are very much not well thought out or some form of genius calculated powerplay for the players. She's just a boring overpowered unit that turns FE6 into a snooze-fest. I love me some imbalanced units, but don't give me Miledy's. They just suck, and worst of all, her existence denies a slot for precious Wade whenever I attempt to spread the wisdom of axe boys. 

"You should use Lot and Wade. They're very fun gimmick units that can actually be pretty good and they have unique dialogue for 10B"

"Thanks, but nah. I'm using Diek, Rutger, Miledy, and Percival. I got this".

"THIS IS YOUR 7TH RUN! WHY ARE YOU STILL USING THEM!?!?"

6 hours ago, gnip said:

(like, Shanna and Thea's powerlevel is a joke compared to hers

"You should use Shanna. She's actually really good and her rescue viability really helps you out in chapters-"

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Fun fact: This is one of the most custom portraits any of the non-major bosses get. Sure, it looks like the generic general sprite, but if you look closely, he's wearing a different outfit. Impressive, huh.

But I like generic sprites.

Now we just get the four hounds 7 times.

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Mishln lol. That sure is a name.

MishIn FaelIEd

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Still, I will say, it is fun to nuke things with aura.

Sage Cecil was really fun with Aura.

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Whatever would we do without bad units, I do have to admit.

90% of the re-playability comes from bad units. Imagine needing routes.

6 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

Domz and Michellin, bad class, bad stats, bad availability. You know what you must do /s What game are these guys viable in?

Fun Fact: The Cord Connoisseur is also known as "New Super Armor Brothers: WIIHIIIIII!!!" Yeah, they call me that too.

These guys? The real Mario and Luigi. Abel...Cain... I point and laugh. They are incredibly powerful in Shadow Dragon. Their bases in Shadow Dragon might appear underwhelming, but in FE11, most base stats can look bad but actually be quite viable even on Hard 5. What matters though are their growths. They are very high for FE11 standards, and as these guys being armors, they benefit from the Doga-rus virus. Dolph in particular is a beast as a fighter. 12 base speed with great strength growth and good speed too. 7 strength with iron axes won't accomplish much at first, but iron axes are very cheap to forge, and axes are a very good weapon to have in the lance emblem game. While Macellan doesn't typically have quite as much potential, he still benefits nearly as much as Dolph, though preferably as a hunter from personal experience. The main thing you have to remember about them is their level. Due to them only being level 4, they gain a lot more xp than the rest of your army while having much better growths.

This might sound like I'm just shilling the Est archetype. And I am

but manly.

Chapter 12 is a much better jointime than chapter 18, and their base stats are competent enough, unlike Est who's getting obliterated at base for a bit of time. Fighter Dolph has better bases than her (same speed lmao unluckyyy), with similar growths outside of lower skill growth at the cost of 50% added HP growth. If anyone plays FE11 again, use them. They are stupid fun. Dolph caps for me everytime. Such a rewarding unit. And he's one of the coolest looking guys too. Damn. What I'd give to fall onto his arms. He carries me through the battlefield, flipping his nonexistent hair to see through the barrage of ballistaes failing to strike him down...And then Macellan arrives to help him rout the enemy as they place me in a fort that once spawned mages. Wait, they're surrounding me. Whoa. It's getting hot in here. I wasn't ready for this...

In FE12, they're absolute memes. Still fun. Crazy high growths. Reclassing from armor makes them go from a horse with broken legs to a Ruben with broken legs. That is to say, unsalvageable speed that's better off as target practice to barely salvageable speed that's still better off as target practice, but they're still working on a cool hack. Macellan is actually arguably the better one here, as he high bow rank allows him to use Parthia at base as a sniper. Hard to make work, but more useable than someone like Athena or Samson imo. One of the less problematic FE12 prepromotes to train from experience, but still getting shot down like a glowie in my backyard on lunatic. The worst feeling is using them both on a Kris-less lunatic only to remember that they don't support each other. 

What the actual fu

6 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

As for Boah, I feel like not being on side with the others in this thread is a call against hats, which will end poorly.

It's okay. Go on. We're all ears. Speak your heart out. We'll hear you out.

[ping]

3 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Wait, they don't chase you as the map starts? Damn. I should be giving even more credit to DSFE. 

Does this map still have the reinforcement cavs from behind? If not, I think I can see why this map might suck for you in FE1. This map feels made to be ambushed from both sides as you progress. Hard to believe that wasn't utilized during its conception.

Heinrich (why) is trapped behind the locked door until you send Julian over to open it. There are no reinforcements. The map is pretty bad after the first, like, four turns.

[Punished Dayni]

10 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

It's okay. Go on. We're all ears. Speak your heart out. We'll hear you out.

Well I think Boah-

10 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

is fine where he is.

11 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

These guys? The real Mario and Luigi. Abel...Cain... I point and laugh. They are incredibly powerful in Shadow Dragon. Their bases in Shadow Dragon might appear underwhelming, but in FE11, most base stats can look bad but actually be quite viable even on Hard 5. What matters though are their growths. They are very high for FE11 standards, and as these guys being armors, they benefit from the Doga-rus virus. Dolph in particular is a beast as a fighter. 12 base speed with great strength growth and good speed too. 7 strength with iron axes won't accomplish much at first, but iron axes are very cheap to forge, and axes are a very good weapon to have in the lance emblem game. While Macellan doesn't typically have quite as much potential, he still benefits nearly as much as Dolph, though preferably as a hunter from personal experience. The main thing you have to remember about them is their level. Due to them only being level 4, they gain a lot more xp than the rest of your army while having much better growths.

This might sound like I'm just shilling the Est archetype. And I am

but manly.

Chapter 12 is a much better jointime than chapter 18, and their base stats are competent enough, unlike Est who's getting obliterated at base for a bit of time. Fighter Dolph has better bases than her (same speed lmao unluckyyy), with similar growths outside of lower skill growth at the cost of 50% added HP growth. If anyone plays FE11 again, use them. They are stupid fun. Dolph caps for me everytime. Such a rewarding unit. And he's one of the coolest looking guys too. Damn. What I'd give to fall onto his arms. He carries me through the battlefield, flipping his nonexistent hair to see through the barrage of ballistaes failing to strike him down...And then Macellan arrives to help him rout the enemy as they place me in a fort that once spawned mages. Wait, they're surrounding me. Whoa. It's getting hot in here. I wasn't ready for this...

In FE12, they're absolute memes. Still fun. Crazy high growths. Reclassing from armor makes them go from a horse with broken legs to a Ruben with broken legs. That is to say, unsalvageable speed that's better off as target practice to barely salvageable speed that's still better off as target practice, but they're still working on a cool hack. Macellan is actually arguably the better one here, as he high bow rank allows him to use Parthia at base as a sniper. Hard to make work, but more useable than someone like Athena or Samson imo. One of the less problematic FE12 prepromotes to train from experience, but still getting shot down like a glowie in my backyard on lunatic. The worst feeling is using them both on a Kris-less lunatic only to remember that they don't support each other. 

Much of that is fair, I get it, though Est did get done dirty in SD compared to SDatBoL, none of that changes that availability and the potential of reclassing in DSFE. Little surprised they're on the lower end of difficulty for the "Free Silvers" retinue though.

And why don't I hear more about Krisless runs?

11 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

What the actual fu

A game with such a large cast could have a wide variety of options to interact with or expand on seriously minor characters.

NMotE supports: Fuck you, 75% are Kris and most of the others are very obvious ones that don't give those character a chance.

2 hours ago, gnip said:

There are no reinforcements. The map is pretty bad after the first, like, four turns.

Thanks S. Kaga

[Saint Rubenio]

13 hours ago, gnip said:

The .org wiki transcribes his name as Mishelan/Misheran, so I think it's pretty reasonable considering the character limit. I do have to wonder if my man is named after the tyre manufacturer.

The Spanish fanslation I'm pretty sure had the full name. It did use a thinner font, though.

6 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

aaand there it is. the feature that Ruben pretends isn't as bad as a UI that actually tells you the stats of your battles.

Very badly, over two different disorganized screens, where your unit's defense is not displayed.

And yes, I pretend it's not as bad because it legitimately wasn't as much of an issue for me. Required some adapting but it wasn't as annoying as I expected it.

What do you want me to say, Shakes? I know I'm the weird one here.

6 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

You have no idea how often I hear arguments in favor of FE11 Tomas. He's got quite the dedicated fanbase.

Meanwhile FE12 Tomas has like, three fans.

6 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

There is no way he's bad in FE1, unless you hate all archers, but then you're boring.

In FE1 he's basically just Georges but requires two levels and a promo item to become Georges. So more or less the healer situation but to a lesser degree. My Georges grew well so poor Thomas suffered.

6 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

playing New Vegas and not liking it (you belong on a cross).

Even when talking about something entirely unrelated you manage to bring it back to me. Should I be worried?

6 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

I disagree with you about Milady. A lot.

She absolutely can trivialize the game. Heck, in my first hard run, I practically made her solo arcadia and the following gaiden map with no trouble. And given that by now, most of us are aware about hard mode bonuses being a glitch, her stats are very much not well thought out or some form of genius calculated powerplay for the players. She's just a boring overpowered unit that turns FE6 into a snooze-fest. I love me some imbalanced units, but don't give me Miledy's. They just suck, and worst of all, her existence denies a slot for precious Wade whenever I attempt to spread the wisdom of axe boys. 

The real problem with Milady is the same problem as Rutger, and Perceval and the rest: Hard mode bonuses. In other words, a bug. A bug FE8 fixed, and yet people still pretend it's not a bug. Some in fact seem to want it back! Why play hard mode, then?

6 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

"THIS IS YOUR 7TH RUN! WHY ARE YOU STILL USING THEM!?!?"

Meanwhile I don't believe I've ever used all of them in the same run. Heck I'm not sure I've even used Perceval. Probably have at some point, I've played that game way too much.

6 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

But I like generic sprites.

Now we just get the four hounds 7 times.

It's truly such a shame. Imagine trying to do a bossman mod for Engage. Smallest playable cast in the history of anything ever. Where are my three recolored bishops, my ugly knights, my forgettable brigands, my girlbosses that inexplicably look a hundred times better than the entire female playable cast?

...Well, Engage does have some of the latter, at least. It's unreal how much better Mitan looks than the entire female cast of its game. Except Saphir, but that's an unfair comparison. Saphir is the best female design in the series.

6 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

90% of the re-playability comes from bad units. Imagine needing routes.

Hey, did you know one thing Three Houses on PC, Lost Eidolons, doesn't have?

Routes.

You know one thing it does have?

Map design.

People call it worse. I will never understand people.

6 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

The worst feeling is using them both on a Kris-less lunatic only to remember that they don't support each other. 

What the actual fu

The funniest part is that, in his support with Kris, Dolph brings up Macellan. But they don't talk to each other, like Cain and Abel.

Stupid FE12.

54 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

NMotE supports: Fuck you, 75% are Kris and most of the others are very obvious ones that don't give those character a chance.

To think, NMotE wasted a precious support slot on a dreadful comedic Caeda and Malicia support. Bah...

[Interdimensional Observer]

18 hours ago, gnip said:

Thomas is another character that has been discussed a bit already: questionable bases and low growths, but still pretty viable because the Sniper promotion is so close. Gaggle's potential, but without most of the tedium of leveling him up.

I never played FE1, but I never gave Silent Green Archer Boy the light of day in F3B2 nor 11. Although with promotion bonuses being what they are in FE1 and the high base level (and presumably rather low EXP gain?), I can see how he'd be a hassle-free better Gordin. And between still nice-still promotion bonuses in FE3B2, 20 stat caps, and Gordin's not-great growths, Tomas is entirely viable/hassle-free there too.

SD... well higher EXP gains might cause Gordin to be a bunch higher than Tomas at this point? But then Tomas has different growths, not inherently inferior growths this time. ...Maybe I underestimate Tomas's viability? He joins way later than Gordin, underleveled, nothing spectacular about his stats, utterly silent. Maybe less a bad unit, as a "no immediately recognizable incentive" unit?

 

11 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Now we just get the four hounds 7 times.

Sooooooo Engage is Luminous Arc 2? Medieval fantasy SRPG. And in the first half of LA2, you again and again fight a young sexy anime witch and an undead kitty cat later accompanied by their old man master. Second half of the plot immediately ends the fighting against them (the cat and witch even join) and replaces the trio with a furry monster whom you fight ad infinitum.

Thanks for the alert.

Are there optional hot spring battles where you fight Camilla five times over the same three maps played a total of twenty-five times, accompanied by an army of elementally-infused Sommies?

 

4 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

The real problem with Milady is the same problem as Rutger, and Perceval and the rest: Hard mode bonuses. In other words, a bug. A bug FE8 fixed, and yet people still pretend it's not a bug. Some in fact seem to want it back! Why play hard mode, then?

Awakening did provide H/L bonuses for everyone not-bred (minus Olivia) from Gregor and Nowi onward. Lunatic Gregor is just 1 point in most stats, scales to upwards of 5 points in select stats for Flavia per level of difficulty over Normal (so +10 HP, +6 Str on Lunatic).

However, Awakening has much more inflated stats than Binding does. And, while some weaker units in Binding probably wouldn't mind a few mild bonus points on Hard, Melady isn't one of them.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Interdimensional Observer

[Shaky Jones]

7 hours ago, gnip said:

Heinrich (why) is trapped behind the locked door until you send Julian over to open it. There are no reinforcements. The map is pretty bad after the first, like, four turns.

Kaga's the guy you let create a concept and base elements, but avoid letting get lost in the sauce, like George Lucas.

And then they get left in charge and make one banger, Revenge of the Marty, but was it worth Genealogy of the Phantom Menace?

5 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

Well I think Boah-

11 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Expand  

is fine where he is.

I agree wholeheartedly. What a fine conversation this has been.

5 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

Much of that is fair, I get it, though Est did get done dirty in SD compared to SDatBoL, none of that changes that availability and the potential of reclassing in DSFE. Little surprised they're on the lower end of difficulty for the "Free Silvers" retinue though.

You'd never actually use most prepromotes, even on an ironman, so you really can only rank them by how long it takes for them to not get 1RKO'd, with sniper Macellan being a somewhat servicable sniper that avoids counterattack. Hilariously enough, he's just a better Tomas. My Tomas got blessed and was better by endgame, but A base rank with higher strength and speed helps out one shotting ch17 dracos til you reach "not doubled by a lunatic snail" thresholds. Dolph was fine enough. I think I made him a zerker, but gave him a decent number of kills on his joining chapter, blocking the right path with Ryan and feeding kills through an iron bow for like 3 to 4 levels. Throwing him at the ballistaes is also free xp. Units like Sheema I'm pretty sure have better growths, but her availability is so shit that you really need to make her work. I was able to spoonfeed the hell out of her in ch18 and ch19 to survive battles in 20, but that was only on maniac, and remember that ch18 has an extremely limited number of enemies. Samson just kinda bores me as a unit and anyone using Beck should be using Sage Beck because there is no way you aren't using him completely ironically.

5 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

And why don't I hear more about Krisless runs?

People hate Birthright for being a mindless snoozefest, and they use Ryoma. They don't know how to control themselves.

The real reason is probably that Kris is too useful. A lot of people call FE12 one of the hardest, and most FE3 fans will say anything above hard is just bad game design hard, so without their capped OC, they can't get past the first 7 chapters being bad at FE. I personally struggled like hell in 3 and 5 (screw rickard), but it was a fun challenge that made me utilize all my knowledge of the game to overcome with mediocre early game bases. It does get easier later when you probably found another unit that caps, like Cord, and actually having Arran be your proper jeigan/best unit at first is a right he fully deserves. I imagine if Kris was mid, he/she'd be benched like hell given how much hate they still gets to this day for reasons I'll never fully understand. They probably end up hating them more feeling like the game is unbeatable without le avatar. People who really like FE12's difficulty do usually end up doing Krisless runs at some point (i've heard/seen quite a few myself), but as we all know, there's about as many FE12 fans as there are respectful non damsel in distress women that don't get hypnotized made by Kaga.

5 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

A game with such a large cast could have a wide variety of options to interact with or expand on seriously minor characters.

NMotE supports: Fuck you, 75% are Kris and most of the others are very obvious ones that don't give those character a chance.

The reason Krissless runs are so rare for me is that most supports belong to Kris. I hate that. I'd be doing Krissless runs all day if it wasn't for my crippling addiction to support hunting in FE12. I could've gone on and on about playing Krisless and the strats I had to pull out of my lack of an ass (as well as many other topics here but I'm getting lightheaded from not eating breakfast yet), but I need to know everything about Beck! I've been thinking of making a thread for a while about supports that could've been (not writing them myself, obviously), but where's Macellan Dolph? Where's Warren Catria? Where's Samto Ogma? Where's Abel and Cain? Matthis and Julian? Roger with woman?

There's so many obvious ones that needed to be, as well as interesting combinations that could've been, but they clearly placed all their eggs in the Kris basket and I'm guessing they got tired writing supports for all 72 characters Kris talks to. I have major respect for the effort they put into making every single Archanea unit from the series having dialogue now after 3 games of nothing, especially when 99% of players will never see over half of them, but damn do I get disappointed with the lack of other combinations. Given that Kris is a mostly blank state, they can focus most of these supports just on the other unit's backstory or gimmick. Some are amazing, I'm sure Ruben can shill plenty like the obvious Arran one, but then the Macellan Dolph supports are mostly just quirky despite their significant role with Aurelies and Nyna given BSFE and them joining you right at the official full scale war against Hardin when retaking Altea again.

4 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Very badly, over two different disorganized screens, where your unit's defense is not displayed.

And yes, I pretend it's not as bad because it legitimately wasn't as much of an issue for me. Required some adapting but it wasn't as annoying as I expected it.

What do you want me to say, Shakes? I know I'm the weird one here.

This is me reminding you that you're old.

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Meanwhile FE12 Tomas has like, three fans.

Oh come now. It's 6.

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Even when talking about something entirely unrelated you manage to bring it back to me. Should I be worried?

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

The real problem with Milady is the same problem as Rutger, and Perceval and the rest: Hard mode bonuses. In other words, a bug. A bug FE8 fixed, and yet people still pretend it's not a bug. Some in fact seem to want it back! Why play hard mode, then?

Some people like the feeling of mowing down hordes with their overpowered unit, which doesn't stand out as much on normal. They like getting Forsetti and not playing a strategy game.

And then they say Awakening is bad because you can mow down hordes of enemies with your overpowered units.

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Meanwhile I don't believe I've ever used all of them in the same run. Heck I'm not sure I've even used Perceval. Probably have at some point, I've played that game way too much.

I've never committed to Percival, but I semi used him before for supports. Nowadays I just kill him to shill a unit of my choice.

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

..Well, Engage does have some of the latter, at least. It's unreal how much better Mitan looks than the entire female cast of its game. Except Saphir, but that's an unfair comparison. Saphir is the best female design in the series.

Are there enough old people to make a romhack out of? You know, like myrm emblem. I would say old women, but you'd have like 3 characters.

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Hey, did you know one thing Three Houses on PC, Lost Eidolons, doesn't have?

Routes.

You know one thing it does have?

Map design.

People call it worse. I will never understand people.

Here before Ruben edits his profile to have a Garon with the joker makeup and his sig says "Society are like seeds".

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

The funniest part is that, in his support with Kris, Dolph brings up Macellan. But they don't talk to each other, like Cain and Abel.

Stupid FE12.

Yeah, right as the support is all about food. Great. 

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

To think, NMotE wasted a precious support slot on a dreadful comedic Caeda and Malicia support. Bah...

We need to have a full on conversation about this. It's killing me. Maybe I will make that thread, and you can rant about Malicia and add nothing to the conversation!

Seriously though, this could've been the support list to end all support lists. I'm perfectly fine with comically shitty supports. I still shill the idea of Roger Caeda because of how hilariously cringy I'd think it'd be, and that could honestly go well getting in the same run as Caeda Malicia, but there's way more serious supports that could've been added that would add on to the interesting worldbuilding of Archanea untapped by limited hardware in previous entries.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I never played FE1, but I never gave Silent Green Archer Boy the light of day in F3B2 nor 11. Although with promotion bonuses being what they are in FE1 and the high base level (and presumably rather low EXP gain?), I can see how he'd be a hassle-free better Gordin. And between still nice-still promotion bonuses in FE3B2, 20 stat caps, and Gordin's not-great growths, Tomas is entirely viable/hassle-free there too.

The only game where I think Tomas is actually bad is in FE12, in which he's so awful that I love him to bits. His bases are so laughably dreadful, but you get one chapter full of dracos when he joins so the game begs me to go on a Tomas spree and patch him up for the lols. Combine that with him just existing in a random ass house 10 meters away from a Gra stronghold that houses the literal next fucking heir where he just tries to kill Kris and nearly gets a double kill with Jeigan in his support line? Bloody hysterical. Absolute meme perfection. 

That said, I have made the argument before that FE12 Tomas is actually good because giving him an arms scroll and the starsphere allows him to OHKO lunatic dracos in chapter 19 with Parthia at base, so take that elitists.

Like I said, there's value in FE11 Tomas, where promoting him leads to stats not too far from Jeorge and he does have a decent speed growth. He is a hassle still, but not outright terrible like other FE units, or you can be an asshole and give someone cav Tomas with no redeeming qualities whatsoever in a PMU. I'd say FE1/FE3B1 Tomas is actually alright. Not great, but serviceable, and doesn't require much effort to become a sniper, making him just a better gordin instead of the weaker one you replace if he died. 

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Are there optional hot spring battles where you fight Camilla five times over the same three maps played a total of twenty-five times, accompanied by an army of elementally-infused Sommies?

That's the next DLC: 3 More Houses.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

However, Awakening has much more inflated stats than Binding does. And, while some weaker units in Binding probably wouldn't mind a few mild bonus points on Hard, Melady isn't one of them.

Poor Raigh.

[ping]

• FE1 Chapter 13: Wooden Cavalry

Spoiler

This fearful mechanical force is known as the "Wooden Cavalry".
With ominous clinking and clanking, these huge metal boxes began to move.
Can Mars defeat these juggernauts on the road to victory?

He can, this map is actually fairly easy as long as you bring some magic. I have to say that I played without much patience, spending Marich's than I probably should considering that the Hammerne staff is still ways away. He isn't about to run out, but I should probably be a bit more frugal (and, as some people are surely already typing out, use old men with hats instead of Marich).

__

I'm less concerned about Linda spending a few Aura charges by taking on the two Ballistae on the northern path by herself. She one-shots Lv.1 Ballisticians on this map, which makes it a pretty easy training ground for her. She ended up killing three and gaining a level for it - with a Spd proc, so she's now officially able to deal 40 damage in a single round of combat in carefully selected situations.

__

Other than Linda, I just shoved everybody down the central path, because of the aforementioned lack of patience. Astria held things up by a turn, until Midia could  safely recruit him without anybody stepping in his range, and Marich reliably killing one of the Ballistae next to him to make sure he and (especially) Midia are safe.

Mars recruits Beck, of course, whose joining situation is just baffling. Up a cliff he cannot traverse, with forest tiles everywhere through which he has one movement. I guess Kaga was worried that somebody with effective damage vs. 95% of the enemies would be too broken to let roam free unlike mages who can one-round 95% of the enemies, which is fair and balanced.

Afterwards, Marich one-rounds the boss and Mars seizes. The end.

This leaves some XP uncollected, but fighting against 14-def enemies is rather annoying, especially when they don't get murdered by Mars's Rapier or Maji and Darros's Hammers. So... bye!

____

...didn't I just kill you? It can be hard to tell with this game's recycled portraits.

Similar to Catria's earlier appearance, I didn't remember Camüü being referenced this early. No opinion on that, just an observation.

What I do have an opinion on is the map, and it's that it is fairly unremarkable, which is a welcome change (un-change?) compared to what FE11 turned this into. Yes, Ballisticians have obnoxiously high Def, but with four tome users, you're well-equipped to blow through everything between Mars and the castle.

The Team:

	Lv  	   HP  Str Skl WLv Spd Lck Def
Mars	8.11	   23    9   7   6   9  12   8	(+4 Mov)
Kain	15.86	   31   10  13  16  14   8   9
Darros	13.72	   31   10   2   9  16   6   8	(+6 Spd)
Marich	11.67	   27    1   6  14  11   9   7

Roshe	12/1.55	   27    9  11  10  11   4   9
Wendell	3.84	   23    3   1  12  15   5   8
Raddy	7.13	   22    8  11   8  12   3   6
Minerv	2.92	   22   10   3  10   6   5  15

Thomas	9.12	   21    7   6  10   5  11   6	(+7 Lck)
Boah	1.38	   22    4   7  10  15   4   6	(base)
Midia	1.00	   base
Linde	2.14	   21    1   5   8   8   3   6

Caesar	3.00	   base
Abel	4.01	   19    8   7   7   8   5   9
Beck	1.00	   20    6   4   8   3   5  14	(base)
Astria	1.56	   24    8  14  10  14   3   8	(base)

• If you insist on using a Ballistician, I suppose Beck might be slightly better, with an extra point of Str, a bit more Skl, and an actual Spd growth. If you feed him like 12 levels, he might even start doubling Knights. But seriously, same issues as Jake, with even less of a chance to do something during his joining chapter.
• Unlike Midia, Astria actually joins with the base stats of his class, which should make him more viable than her as a long-term unit. Like Midia, his growths are pretty solid - low Def, but everybody has that, low Spd, but he's already quite fast considering he uses swords, quite good everywhere else. Without calculating any averages, I suspect that Oguma and Navarre would still outdo him if you promoted them with the first Hero Crest, considering that especially the latter has decent bases and really quite good growths. Then again, my Raddy at Lv. 7 is still strictly (if only slightly) worse than Astria, so the difference should be much smaller than between Midia and the Xmas cavs.
  • TL;DR: Astria seems pretty good, honestly.

 

8 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Meanwhile FE12 Tomas has like, three fans.

Only half as many as Berwick Saga?!

8 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

The real problem with Milady is the same problem as Rutger, and Perceval and the rest: Hard mode bonuses. In other words, a bug. A bug FE8 fixed, and yet people still pretend it's not a bug. Some in fact seem to want it back! Why play hard mode, then?

Monkey brain like big green numbers. Me have more bananas than you.

I know that HM bonuses came into being as a bug, but with HHM bringing them back, I have to wonder if that bug was embraced by the developers as a feature. If it was only in BinBla, I could accept that they didn't have the time to fix it, since I can not imagine that they didn't notice. But HHM not only not fixing the bug, but also making sure that all recruitable enemies are loaded in a fashion that they get those sweet extra numbers, even Heath and Geitz who are on the field on turn 1... that seems awfully deliberate to me. To me, that looks like people liked having more bananas, so the devs obliged.

@Shaky Jones: Evidence secured. Pleasure making business with you.

Edited September 7, 2023 by gnip

[Interdimensional Observer]

52 minutes ago, gnip said:

I'm less concerned about Linda spending a few Aura charges by taking on the two Ballistae on the northern path by herself. She one-shots Lv.1 Ballisticians on this map, which makes it a pretty easy training ground for her. She ended up killing three and gaining a level for it - with a Spd proc, so she's now officially able to deal 40 damage in a single round of combat in carefully selected situations.

A map custom-made to feel a new recruit kills shortly after they join? Nice when these happen.

54 minutes ago, gnip said:

...didn't I just kill you? It can be hard to tell with this game's recycled portraits

It does become Gringas's death quote in FE11, so yes it's him.

55 minutes ago, gnip said:

TL;DR: Astria seems pretty good, honestly

So Midia = Never Good. Astram = Was Good, Became Ruined By Modern Stat Caps?

...Without the terrible 10-range FE11 retroactively brought to it, this map doesn't sound bad. The alleys hemmed in by cliffs make the Ballisticians into supposed iron walls and breaking through, not surviving through, is the intended challenge? Why not both? Like a little Thermopylae with siege weapons then. FE1 Ballisticians sound like one strange attempt to bring siege machines into an SRPG where there are no city walls to tear down. ...Actually I'm somehow not familiar with how frequent siege weapons were in formal open pitched battles. Cannons I suppose aren't the best point of comparison, given how much bigger siege machinery could be.

[ping]

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

A map custom-made to feel a new recruit kills shortly after they join? Nice when these happen.

And they even have precisely 20 HP, too. I don't know how intentional this was (there is one map between Linda joining and this one), but it really works out very nicely for her.

21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

So Midia = Never Good. Astram = Was Good, Became Ruined By Modern Stat Caps?

i think it's not just the inflated stat caps, but also the DSFE game not accounting for the changed promotion mechanics. In this run, Lv.7 Raddy having slightly worse stats means that he'll basically identical to base level Astria when he promotes, with maybe an extra point of Str or two. In FE11, because promotion means "+X to most stats" instead of "increase stats to class bases, if lower", the same scenario would indicate even a 10/1 Radd will out-stat Astram.

It's kinda wild with how thoroughly DSFE smashed the traditional class system, that they still decided to be as faithful to the old FE1 base stats.

31 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

...Without the terrible 10-range FE11 retroactively brought to it, this map doesn't sound bad. The alleys hemmed in by cliffs make the Ballisticians into supposed iron walls and breaking through, not surviving through, is the intended challenge?

Yeah, it's not a terribly annoying map to play, but it's literally one-dimensional. There is *a* path leading directly to the throne, and there is no particular reason to interact with the other two paths, outside of XP. Linda killed the two coming from the north because she could do so risk-free, while the three from the south barely reached the bridges in the right center of the map when Mars seized.

[Interdimensional Observer]

34 minutes ago, gnip said:

It's kinda wild with how thoroughly DSFE smashed the traditional class system, that they still decided to be as faithful to the old FE1 base stats.

Mind-boggling indeed. SD's problem isn't that it is too "faithful", it's that it's stuck in the middle between faithfulness and modern revision, at least in gameplay.

Speaking of problematic bases, has A vs. S already been decided/spoken for yet? I expect others to demand A, and considering -wait, why did FE11 bump both Samson's & Arran's base levels up from 1 to 10??? Yet they left their bases the same! Book 1 isn't to blame. What does that do?