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To Become an Elitist [Playlogs FE1-5] [currently playing: Thracia 776]


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On 1/22/2024 at 1:35 AM, BrightBow said:

It's also 9 (or 10, counting BS) games into the series. That's a lot of games. So it's not like them using swords and lances is some weirdness of the early days.
And even then, Axes is only an option for wyvern in advanced classes

Exactly this and the GBA games still being in the public eye due to popular hacks still being made even this very year, Wyvern knight also can use lances+swords in Engage.

On 1/22/2024 at 1:35 AM, BrightBow said:

Yeah, that just makes no sense whatsoever. He are Merric are in charge of the magic city. Of course they got healers among their ranks.

Seems like a stretch to consider this a coup either. The fact that he is currently in command of the army is probably simply because he took the initiative in directing them against the Aritian forces entering their territory.
And Merric is obviously just trying to talk Elleran down, rather than attempting to take control of the army himself.

I get the remake made it an optional objective to spare the healers, but directing towards that would be as easy as saying that Khadein is not really the enemy, and therefore there is no need to go out of the way to kill those who aren't even wielding weapons.
There is no need to make them kidnapping victims.

Exactly its incredibly out of character and Arlen is the lawful ruler of the city, of course women are going to join their sons, brothers and fathers in fighting for their leader. IS and their sexism.

On 1/22/2024 at 1:35 AM, BrightBow said:

Vestaria Saga Generals do have spears and throwing spears as well.

Vestaria Saga Generals are a tier 2 class, as Generals always are. Lance/Sword Generals isn't that unusual, we had them in both Tellius games for example.

Tier 1 Armored Knights getting Lance/Sword or any two weapons is unique to FE1 and VS2.

On 1/22/2024 at 1:35 AM, BrightBow said:

Berwick Saga Generals are purely limited to swords, though.

I consider Large Shields to be another weapon type as they use an equipment, but I suppose it is debatable.

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On 1/20/2024 at 3:54 PM, ping said:

Comparable to not knowing your country's head of government during WW1, I suppose. Well, Spain kept out of it, but I think most people will be able to name at least Wilson, Willie II. , and Nicky the last. Don't ask me to name every French Premier during the war, though.

To say "most people" seems very charitable. Like, I'm a low-key history nerd, and am only like 80% sure (without looking it up) that David Lloyd George was Britain's Prime Minister in WWI*. Even limiting it to the US, most people recognize "Woodrow Wilson" as a president's name, but could they say when he was in office? You and I may know it was 1913 to 1921, but I'd bet my lunch money that most folks on the street would guess anywhere from the 1880s to the 1940s.

Nowadays, people definitely know the big names of WWII (Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, FDR, Mussolini - Tojo and de Gaulle, maybe not so much) far better than they know the people who ran those same countries two decades earlier. I wonder - by 2039, will any of those names be as unfamiliar to the layperson as Georges Clemenceau, or Mehmed VI? RemindMe! 15 years.

On 1/22/2024 at 3:13 AM, Emperor Hardin said:

In FE1, all lance using classes could use swords. The real weird/unusual thing was that Generals were only swords in contrast to Armored Knights being Sword/Lance. No other game brought back Sword/Lance Armored Knights or Sword only Generals, except for TearRing Saga and Vestaria Saga II.

Right, I heard about that "Generals not having Lances, even though Armor Knights have them" weirdness. Doga must be Agod.

...Wait, if we're being super-technical, can't you have a "Swords-only" General in Engage? Since they're limited to a single weapon type per unit in that game?

On 1/22/2024 at 4:49 AM, Jotari said:

I'm just saying Draco Knights have been rocking axes for over half of the series' life span. It's not accurate to call it a very recent development. It's more like a "Not ancient development".

Yeah, to anyone who jumped into the series with anything Tellius onward, I have to imagine going back to the GBA and earlier, and seeing Wyverns with Swords, would've been a bit odd.

...Wait a minute. No, I don't have to imagine that. I started with SD, and then played RD! I'd never known a Wyvern without Axes until going back to the GBA games! And yes, it was a bit of a learning curve.

*EDIT: I was half-right. Suck it, H.H. Asquith!

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Very important update.
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54 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

To say "most people" seems very charitable. Like, I'm a low-key history nerd, and am only like 80% sure (without looking it up) that David Lloyd George was Britain's Prime Minister in WWI*. Even limiting it to the US, most people recognize "Woodrow Wilson" as a president's name, but could they say when he was in office? You and I may know it was 1913 to 1921, but I'd bet my lunch money that most folks on the street would guess anywhere from the 1880s to the 1940s.

Nowadays, people definitely know the big names of WWII (Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, FDR, Mussolini - Tojo and de Gaulle, maybe not so much) far better than they know the people who ran those same countries two decades earlier. I wonder - by 2039, will any of those names be as unfamiliar to the layperson as Georges Clemenceau, or Mehmed VI? RemindMe! 15 years.

Most people in the world didn't have their own country during World War I. Like 60%+ of countries were formed in the past hundred years (or reformed after kicking out colonial oppressors depending on how you look at it, yadda yadda nation state is a modern concept). I read that question and my answer was "A bunch of rebels with their own secret government and the express purpose of evicting British forces".

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On 1/20/2024 at 9:54 PM, ping said:

Comparable to not knowing your country's head of government during WW1, I suppose. Well, Spain kept out of it, but I think most people will be able to name at least Wilson, Willie II. , and Nicky the last. Don't ask me to name every French Premier during the war, though.

Marth is related to this guy though, and he wasn't just part of a war, he saved the world from an apocalyptic threat. You'd think Anri's history would be one of the first thing they'd teach Marth lol

On 1/20/2024 at 9:54 PM, ping said:

To encourage exploration or to sell strategy guides, depending on your level of cynicism.

Yeah, no, it was to sell strategy guides.

On 1/20/2024 at 9:54 PM, ping said:

"OK, so why did you think it was a good idea to instigate this while transformed into a pre-school girl...?"

"Hello, Xane? My name is Chris Hansen, take a seat please."

"What? He's a blue-blood, so I just assumed..."

"...Caeda get the wing spear..."

On 1/20/2024 at 9:54 PM, ping said:

Goodness, they're not a good class for once (iirc, elitists don't like them because they can't use roads, right?) and you still don't use them?

They're not fun. Arden is funnier.

On 1/20/2024 at 9:58 PM, BrightBow said:

Cyltan also has two portrait sets. The angsty and the confident one, with the angsty starting out as his default but being replaced by the confident one later, although the angsty one comes back from time to time.

With Sheela they seem to go for a juxtaposition between the two expressions. In her first scene she has her "unamused" face throughout pretty much the entire thing and you only see her default bubbly face briefly at the very end.

I think you are interpreting too much into the San thing.
I've seen the uncompressed version of her portrait, and it has the arm raised.
Presumably they've simply figured that San looked silly in conversations when she always has her arm raised like that. So they modified that portrait to angle her arm downwards instead of upwards for a more comfortable posture.
Then they merely used the original portrait in one scene where her having her arm raised makes sense, because since they still have it they might as well use it.

Fair enough. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to imply anything this time, it's just a strange little quirk of his games. I wish I knew why he's so inconsistent about it. There's a million characters I can think of that could use multiple expressions before Kid Sienna who could just use her sad portrait throughout the entire scene.

On 1/22/2024 at 10:35 AM, BrightBow said:

Vestaria Saga Generals do have spears and throwing spears as well.
Berwick Saga Generals are purely limited to swords, though.

Still wish Marcel had been able to promote to General and Derrick to Gigas Knight. Both classes suit them and their existing classes. Derrick remaining firmly a joke character would've been fine of course, but c'mon, throw Marcel a bone at least.

Edited by Saint Rubenio
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45 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Still wish Marcel had been able to promote to General and Derrick to Gigas Knight. Both classes suit them and their existing classes. Derrick remaining firmly a joke character would've been fine of course, but c'mon, throw Marcel a bone at least.

General Marcel would only have 2 movement and the same movement type as Derrick.

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3 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

General Marcel would only have 2 movement and the same movement type as Derrick.

Oh right, generals only had three move. Right. Almost forgot about that.

...Yeesh.

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FE3 Book 2 Chapter 12: Dragon Graveyard

Spoiler

xM3d6vM.png

There he faced walls of towering mountains... As well as sheer cliffs and deep valleys... Then, after passing countless mountains... Suddenly, a scorching heat surrounds everyone. Magma flowing like rivers, and sounds of roaring, block their passage. This is truly a fearful sight.

L4ZQQSL.png

TYz0Huh.png: "This is where Fire Dragons that have degenerated wait to die."
THMpsw7.png: "Degenerated...? What does that mean?"
TYz0Huh.png: "The dragon tribe is currently facing extinction. If dragons do not seal their true form within dragonstones, they will lose their mind and become wild."
THMpsw7.png: "So that's why they became Manaketes? Xane, can you tell me everything you know about the dragon tribe?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Okay... Many tens of thousands of years ago the dragon tribe lived on this world, and built their own civilisation. They were much wiser and stronger than humans. But, from nowhere, the day of ruin came. First they could not give birth anymore and then they lost their minds, becoming wild beasts that destroyed everything in their path. The elders said the dragon tribe was reaching its last days. We had no choice, except to abandon our identities as dragons and live on as humans. The dragon tribe panicked. Those who trusted the elders sealed their dragon form inside stones and assumed human form. But there were some who could not abandon their pride as dragons and did not become human. In the end they lost their mind and became wild."
THMpsw7.png: "Just like these Fire Dragons?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Yes. Thee are more like them, but they're all just a pack of wild beasts who can no longer return to sanity... There ones have become the pets of the Fire Clan, who rule these mountains. Well, Marth. Let's talk about the rest later, let's go. The Fire Clan are nasty stuff. If we don't hurry up, we'll become dinner for their Fire Dragons."

So I said earlier in a threat about smart and dumb lords: "Going through the Lords, I think it's fair to not consider Marth and, yes, the Gaiden power couple. It helps that they simply don't talk much, period, but I think that what they say is neither supposed to be a brilliant deduction nor of stunning stupidity."

I'm beginning to think that I might have to retract that statement at least a little - while I still don't believe that Marth is supposed to be a complete idiot like, say, Camüh, Book 2 does put him into a few situations in which he looks a bit slow. The whole "Hardin laid a trap for us" thing had to be figured out by Jeigan, now Xane is able to just slip in an explicit "we, the dragons" without Marth even catching it, and there will be another one by the end of the chapter, although Marth at least manages a "wait, what?" at that point.

pm4HtSk.png

This map is a bit more tricky than the big desert map. Not only have some of the enemies learned to charge at you again, but they all hit really hard:

KEjo70v.png

Every Barbarian on this map (OK, it's just three at the start, but there will be more) uses a Devil Axe, which means that they cleanly two-shot every character we have with the exception of Catria and Bantu. Oh, and the ones that they one-shot, of course. I lost one attempt because I assumed that Julian would live a counterattack.

xpEFYWC.png__ijlAgzN.png

And another one because Marth did the suicidal crit manoever again. Sigh. Or, more precisely, suicidal double crit.

All that said - this map still got even more teeth in the remake. Here, reinforcements are relatively tame - up to two Barbarians and a Fire Dragon spawning from the forts in our rear, but they all just have a 50-60% chance to appear each turn. No comparison to the multiple zone-based and turn-based reinforcements, which will really screw the player over even on non-lunatic difficulties.

6Br1Fx8.png

First priority: ...well, killing the nearest dragon. But secondly: Stat boosters. Bantu reads SecretBook II: The Secreting, Warren is fast now, Matthis gets lucky, and the Pope can now lift.

ZzDtYof.png

The map as a whole is very one-dimensional, since you only have that one narrow bridge you can walk on and most enemies are just as grounded as your own units. The enemies that come from a different direction are the three Wyverns that approach from the west. They still don't have the "double and one-round" threat that New Mystery players would have to expect, but with 1-2 range, they're still quite dangerous because it's more difficult to make sure they can't gang up on anybody.

opCjITJ.png__OEK7Q6k.png

The solution is the old trope of feeding young girls to the dragon. Yumina and Feena are in range of the two closer Wyverns (who also move first) and they have the lowest HP of the group, so the Wyverns will prioritise attacking them. But thanks to the equally old tactic of turtling, they can both only be attacked from one space.

GlXgeXn.png__n0lTZMK.png

Reinforcements start appearing once the first character crosses the line of forts. Bantu, with his high Def (which works vs. enemy dragons) and enormous HP, is very consistently useful on this map to bait enemies without any risk.

IGLzSKF.png

And sometimes, nice things happen along the way, although the funni damage number was only possible for a very short period of time - in two levels on this map, Bantu gained +2 Str, +1 Spd, and +1 Def, moving him from 22 to 24 Atk.

J2M8DTK.png

The path forward is very straightforward once the few charging enemies are dealt with: Draw one dragon, maybe two, kill dragon(s), rinse and repeat. Guarding the rear is more interesting - enemies spawning every turn means that it's more tricky to kill one group without putting anyone in danger. Remember, it's Devil Axes all the way down on this map.

8uAQUHN.png__e8CECXD.png__Fit7z75.png

But overall, not much to say about the map. It's not bad per se, but it doesn't really change in nature between, say, turn 3 and seizing. So I'll just present some nice pictures.

1zTm8Xp.png

Oh, and I did not forget to grab the last Starshard.

N1n9hQa.png

Overall, this took 14 turns, which is maybe a bit too much of a map that's a bit monotonous. Eh, 6.3/10 experience, not great, not terrible.

TYz0Huh.png: "Phew. We've finally passed the Fire Dragon's valley. Are you okay, Marth?"
THMpsw7.png: "Uh... Yeah, I'm fine. Xane, you said that there were other wild dragons elsewhere. Is that true?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Mmm, the majority of the dragon tribe didn't listen to the elders' advice, and were lost... Those that survived didn't really stay at a single place. Aside from the Fire Dragons' valley there is also the Wyvern Valley, the Ice Dragon Shrine and the Dragon's Table..."
THMpsw7.png: "Dragon's Altar...?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Mmm, behind the mountains of Macedon is a graveyard of Mage Dragons. That is also where the Earth Dragons sleep."
THMpsw7.png: "Earth Dragons...!? There are other Earth Dragons besides Medeus!?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Of course. Amonst the dragon tribe they are closest in strength to the Divine Dragons, and possess tremendous power. They didn't agree with the elders and left to form their own group. They currently reside at the Dolhr region, but... their fate didn't change. Eventually the Earth Dragons all lost their minds and, together with the Mage Dragons and Flying Dragons who had also degenerated, started to attack humans. Of course, humans could not hope to stand up to them. Humans almost became extinct and, in the end, were forced to a single corner of the continent. Then at that time... Naga, the king of the Divine Dragons, the strongest of all dragons, commanded his tribe to begin a battle to protect the humans. It was a difficult battle, but in the end Naga was victorious. He sealed the Earth Dragons underneath Dolhr and sent them to a deep sleep. To prevent the seal's strength from weakening, he created the "Shield of the five Spheres" and left it at the Fane of Raman. But that is already ancient history... In fact it occured over 1000 years ago."
THMpsw7.png: "Really...? I finally understand. The Guardian God, Naga, of legens was actually the king of the Divine Dragons, Naga, who helped mankind. Those events became legends that have been passed on even now. But if that was the case, why was the divine sword, Falchion left behind for humans?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Mmm, that is a dragon buster. A sword designed to defeat dragons. Naga felt pity for the humans that could not protect themselves so he crafted it from his own fang. The sword was sealed within the Fane of Raman, along with the shield. And a powerful spell was cast on the temple, so that only Divine Dragons could enter it. After that, Naga left behind a will to his own people, which was to protect mankind. Finally, he placed the newly born Tiki into a deep sleep, thus ending the remaining 5000 years of his life. So, you can see why Gotoh is still faithfully follow his orders."
THMpsw7.png: "Huh, Xane...? Could it be!?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Mmm, Gotoh is a Divine Dragon. What, you thought there was just me...?"
THMpsw7.png: "Wa-wait, Xane. I still don't understand. What exactly did you mean?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Phew, my throat is really dry. I can't stand the heat anymore. Marth, let's hurry along."

... To Marth's credit, he at least figured out that Gotoh is a Divine Asshole Dragon. Still, he's rather slow to follow Xane's big speeches and little hints.

Can we assign "Mmm" as Xane's catchphrase at this point, by the way? Now, the direction that some of our theories in this thread have been going, I think it's safe to assume that confusing people is (one of) Xane's fetish(es) and his "Mmm" are closer to moans than affirmative "Mhm"s. That would also explain why he refuses to explain things properly right away. Sicko. Look, I don't kink shame, but I don't think Marth consented to be part of this

The Team:

	Lv. 	   HP Str Skl Spd Lck WLv Def Res  +XP
Marth	12.41	   31  12  12  12  14   9  11   0  +300
Arran	*/9.33	   23  10  11  12   4  10  12   6  +146
Matthis	13.00	   26  12  13  11   8  13   9   2  +160	(+5 Lck, +5 Skl)
Caeda	13.46	   24  11  14  20  17  16  12   6  +10

Catria	16.25	   32  15  18  20  10  17  15   6  --
Julian	11.48	   22  12  12  18  11   9   8   0  +200
Warren	15.54	   31  13  11  16   3  11   7   2  +130	(+5 Spd)
Bantu	6.89	   25   4  14   6   1   2   4   1  +190 (+7 HP, +10 Skl)

Jubelo	20/2.74	   25  20  11  16  16  20   7   7  +349*
Wendell	*/11.25	   28   9   7  13   5  14   5   7  +156	(+5 Str)
Yuliya	13.88	   18   9   8  11  15  14   3   6  +182
Phina	6.80	   18   3   6  14  13   5   4   0  +120
  • +3 HP in three levels for Marth. I'll hold off on it, but this makes it more likely that our spare Angelic Robe can go to somebody else - Tiki, or maybe Julian.

Answers!

Spoiler

  

On 1/21/2024 at 4:55 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

"To make sure I'm on the right side of this war! Ol' Gharnef may be trying to plunge this world into an external darkness, and that stinks - but I draw the line at pedos, ya dig?"

On 1/24/2024 at 12:26 PM, Saint Rubenio said:

"Hello, Xane? My name is Chris Hansen, take a seat please."

"What? He's a blue-blood, so I just assumed..."

Two competing interpretations of Xane's character, I see. :lol:

On 1/24/2024 at 12:26 PM, Saint Rubenio said:

"...Caeda get the wing spear..."

"Mr. Xane, if you co-operate and transform into a Cavalier, and maybe hold this sword real quick, this will be very quick and relatively painfree."

On 1/21/2024 at 5:06 PM, Jotari said:

Seriously though, Marth, Medeus, Minerva, Michalis Mannu, Mostyn. Archanea is full of 'm' royals. I even made a joke about it in Pyrathi 609.

League of A's: Weak, a poor man's A Team, and there's only three of them.

Clash of M's: More powerful letter, it's not just some popular TV serie's boring copy, the M's never stop coming.

On 1/22/2024 at 9:13 AM, Emperor Hardin said:

To be fair, the similarity might not have been obvious at first.

I've read one of the novelizations delves into the Ellerean/Arlen and Gharnef connection, as well as their relationship with their masters. Apparently both had a more parental relationship with their tutor in the novel.

Well, Wendell gave Excalibur to Merric specifically because he saw Arlen's impure heart. It's one of those things that might seem more natural if there was more time to establish the relationships, so it's possible that that is the case in a novelisation. But in the game, I do think that Wendell looks a bit bad in this side story.

On 1/22/2024 at 9:13 AM, Emperor Hardin said:

FE12 adds a really out of place line where Jagen mentions Arlen kidnapped the clerics to force them into his army, which really makes much less sense than being citizens of Khadein like Yodel, that decided to join their male family members in fighting for Arlen.

Also Arlen's men randomly start trying to murder him when you recruit him in this version. I didn't you mention it, so tell me if you didn't notice, but all of Arlen's troops will try to leave the map once you recruit him.

Doesn't seem entirely necessary to justify not killing them, either. The story already states that the Mages you fight aren't evil, so it would've worked if the line had just been "We should at least try to spare those that don't seek to fight" or something like that.

I did notice that the Clerics were moving to the southern part of the map, where Marth starts. I didn't notice it for the other enemies, but that might be because they couldn't get there without walking towards/past my units.

On 1/24/2024 at 5:31 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

To say "most people" seems very charitable. Like, I'm a low-key history nerd, and am only like 80% sure (without looking it up) that David Lloyd George was Britain's Prime Minister in WWI*. Even limiting it to the US, most people recognize "Woodrow Wilson" as a president's name, but could they say when he was in office? You and I may know it was 1913 to 1921, but I'd bet my lunch money that most folks on the street would guess anywhere from the 1880s to the 1940s.

Nowadays, people definitely know the big names of WWII (Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, FDR, Mussolini - Tojo and de Gaulle, maybe not so much) far better than they know the people who ran those same countries two decades earlier. I wonder - by 2039, will any of those names be as unfamiliar to the layperson as Georges Clemenceau, or Mehmed VI? RemindMe! 15 years.

Hm, maybe my perception is a bit skewed since the German names are those of the villains that everybody remembers.

(obviously, on a vastly different scale of infamy and villainy between WWI vs. WWII, and I'm sure one can argue about how much of the WWI villainy can be pinned on the military leadership)

 

 

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2 minutes ago, ping said:

"Mr. Xane, if you co-operate and transform into a Cavalier, and maybe hold this sword real quick, this will be very quick and relatively painfree."

"Only if you're the one to stab me, Princey."

"That's it, to the dungeon with you."

Then in the sequel where Marth has become the Dank Emperor and Caeda has taken up arms to stop him, you find Xane in the exact same place where he was in Shadow Dragon. Callbacks!

4 minutes ago, ping said:

I'm beginning to think that I might have to retract that statement at least a little - while I still don't believe that Marth is supposed to be a complete idiot like, say, Camüh, Book 2 does put him into a few situations in which he looks a bit slow. The whole "Hardin laid a trap for us" thing had to be figured out by Jeigan, now Xane is able to just slip in an explicit "we, the dragons" without Marth even catching it, and there will be another one by the end of the chapter, although Marth at least manages a "wait, what?" at that point.

He just keeps talking in first person plural and Marth doesn't get the implications.

In FE12, this isn't an instance of Kris getting the infodump. I guess the writers of that one figured this "deep dragon lore" was reasonable enough for something Marth wouldn't know. On the other hand, I just skimmed through the chapter 12 script again and Xane doesn't overtly refer to dragonkind as "we" in the intro of the chapter. Not on the outro either - he just mentions Gotoh at one point, Marth is immediately shocked and then Xane casually adds that he's also a dragon.

9 minutes ago, ping said:

TYz0Huh.png: "Mmm, Gotoh is a Divine Dragon. What, you thought there was just me...?"
THMpsw7.png: "Wa-wait, Xane. I still don't understand. What exactly did you mean?"

This bit where Marth stumbles and fails to keep up is also not in NMotE. The scene just ends after Xane reveals he's a dragon.

...Which means the twisty loredump is abruptly followed by the scene of Kris potentially having a heatstroke, which is then even more abruptly followed by the Sable Knights' absolutely hilarious recruitment. You win some, you lose some.

11 minutes ago, ping said:

Can we assign "Mmm" as Xane's catchphrase at this point, by the way? Now, the direction that some of our theories in this thread have been going, I think it's safe to assume that confusing people is (one of) Xane's fetish(es) and his "Mmm" are closer to moans than affirmative "Mhm"s. That would also explain why he refuses to explain things properly right away. Sicko. Look, I don't kink shame, but I don't think Marth consented to be part of this

I mean... Maybe that's why Marth's having such a hard time keeping up. Xane's frequent moaning keeps clouding his mind. He also can't stop staring at his b--

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12 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

"Only if you're the one to stab me, Princey."

"That's it, to the dungeon with you."

Not sure if indignant because of innuendo or embarrassed because it would take Marth way too long to properly murder Xane

18 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

In FE12, this isn't an instance of Kris getting the infodump. I guess the writers of that one figured this "deep dragon lore" was reasonable enough for something Marth wouldn't know. On the other hand, I just skimmed through the chapter 12 script again and Xane doesn't overtly refer to dragonkind as "we" in the intro of the chapter. Not on the outro either - he just mentions Gotoh at one point, Marth is immediately shocked and then Xane casually adds that he's also a dragon.

He says "you humans" in the outro, right before Marth figures it out. But yeah, Marth needs far less nudging to get there in New Mystery.

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20 minutes ago, ping said:

TYz0Huh.png: "Okay... Many tens of thousands of years ago the dragon tribe lived on this world, and built their own civilisation. They were much wiser and stronger than humans. But, from nowhere, the day of ruin came. First they could not give birth anymore and then they lost their minds, becoming wild beasts that destroyed everything in their path. The elders said the dragon tribe was reaching its last days.

Much wiser than humans but they still lost their minds because they refused to use easily available countermeasures to their affliction.
...fair enough, I suppose.

And hey maybe they can still give birth if they mate while they are really young. Judging by Awakening logic anyway.
 

22 minutes ago, ping said:

All that said - this map still got even more teeth in the remake. Here, reinforcements are relatively tame - up to two Barbarians and a Fire Dragon spawning from the forts in our rear, but they all just have a 50-60% chance to appear each turn. No comparison to the multiple zone-based and turn-based reinforcements, which will really screw the player over even on non-lunatic difficulties.

The kind of teeth that the Bed of Chaos has anyway. It's just cheap deaths, with the only possible precaution being to munchkin your numbers so hard that enemies can't touch you in the first place. 
If that nonsense originated in an ancient 1994 Super Famicom game, I could have understood. But the remake actually added that bullshit.

Nevermind that since dragons have 0 speed and fixed damage negating damage, even when they do get the drop on you here, they are unlikely to oneshot anyone. Especially not your frontliners.
 

28 minutes ago, ping said:

Overall, this took 14 turns, which is maybe a bit too much of a map that's a bit monotonous. Eh, 6.3/10 experience, not great, not terrible.

Waste of a cool tileset / 10
 

35 minutes ago, ping said:

THMpsw7.png: "Dragon's Altar...?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Mmm, behind the mountains of Macedon is a graveyard of Mage Dragons. That is also where the Earth Dragons sleep."

Mage Dragons and Earth Dragons. Maybe some wyvern from the nearby valley could also have found their way into the place.

Cue FE12 putting in Fire Dragons and Ice Dragons.
 

41 minutes ago, ping said:

... To Marth's credit, he at least figured out that Gotoh is a Divine Asshole Dragon. Still, he's rather slow to follow Xane's big speeches and little hints.

To be fair, it is rather hamfisted exposition. Not like Book 1 prepared him for this.

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If we're still taling about wild interpretations of Xane's character than I submit the headcanon that it was secretly Xane acting as Desiax's body double in Gaiden. He has a Dracoshield, don't tell me that's a coincidence!

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FE3 Book 2 Chapter 13: Frozen Land

Spoiler

9ouqTJU.png

5000 metres... No, higher than that. Looking down, a sea of clouds can be seen. They have reaced the summit of the cold mountain peak. Breathing is difficult... Dizziness is felt... Their vitality is fast approaching its limits.

Glad to see that the American patch still uses Metric!
(Yes, I know why that is. You'll also notice that spelling tends to be British, too, as far as I can tell as a non-native speaker. Additional 'u's and all that.)

THMpsw7.png: "Xane, we've already climed this high. It's so cold... Even breathing is hard."
TYz0Huh.png: "We're almost there. Look, can you see over there? That's the Ice Dragon Shrine where Gotoh is."
THMpsw7.png: "But, that was quite the shock. Tiki is actually the daughter of the Divine Dragon King. Also, both Gotoh and you are Divine Dragons."
TYz0Huh.png: "Ah... When the Divine Dragons fought the Earth Dragons they over-exhausted their dragonstones, and so practically became extinct. Aside from Naga, only Gotoh, me and the just born Tiki survived. However, after the war we discarded our dragonstones, so we could no longer become dragons again. Even so, I still ahve knowledge and power that exceeds that of humans. Gotoh followed Naga's orders to protect humans, but that's got nothing to do with me. I don't like humans. They scorned the Manaketes, even though they had lost their power, and treated them like filth. I can fully understand why Medeus and the others hated humans so much. The Earth Dragon King, Medeus, tricked his own tribe and became a Manakete by himself. He used to follow Naga's orders and guarded the Dragon's Table. However, the once docile humans finally achieved power and becamse aggressive. They even started to attack the Manaketes that lived in peace. The Manaketes were angered by the betrayal of humans, and gathered at the Dolhr region. They formed their own kingdom of Manaketes and began a war to conquer the humans. To save humans, Gotoh handed the Falchion to Anri and he created an academy of magic at Khadein. But whoever won wasn't any of my concern."
THMpsw7.png: "Then, why are you helping me? I'm also a human..."
TYz0Huh.png: "You're different from the others. You don't seem like an unreliable person either..."
THMpsw7.png: "Mmm... Thank you, Xane."
TYz0Huh.png: "Don't... don't be silly. I'll get embarrassed. Anyway, let's head to the temple, but be careful of the Ice Dragons. Although they're also wild dragons, they will instinctively try to protect their temple. Poor guys..."

Ah, here's the inconsistency with Khadein's founding date. Chapter 9's opening says "hundreds of years ago", but Anri's journey only happened ~110 years before Marth retreats it. Wiki (referencing Serenesforest) even dates the founding of Khadein at 550 (Akaneia Reckoning), which is 52-54 earlier than FE1's events, and 57 years before Book 2.

(also, don't thank the guy who's pulling a "credit to your race", Marthipan)

GpLUQNw.png

Anyway, the map! It's pretty empty, and as a result not terribly exciting despite its strong enemies.

VTBjfEK.png

The Barbarians have swapped from Devil to Silver Axes, so they hit less hard, but significantly more accurately than before.

rqyxQZ4.png

Ice dragons aren't terribly scary, to be honest. They have higher Res than Fire Dragons and Wyverns, but that's balanced out by their rather low HP, compared to Wyverns (40 HP) and Fire Dragons (48 HP).

An80J6U.png

As a matter of fact, Bantu one-shots them. It's a very glasscannon-y match-up, since they both deal effective damage and Bantu is two-shot as a result, too.

egpZM6u.png

General direction: counter-clockwise. Catria can clear the Barbs to the north (she precisely one-rounds with Silver)...

yZVLGNn.png

...while Matthis and Caeda take out the enemies west of the starting location. They need one or two Physic charges to do so on their own, but that's not too bad, and it's handy that they can catch up to the rest of the group quickly.

8ooaLpk.png__cmSH1nw.png

The most interesting part of the fight is that the five Ice Dragons surrounding the "boss" (who is another generic Ice Dragon)  start the map aggressive. They're obviously still strong enough to kill anything (not only Bantu) in two hits, so you have to be careful to not allow them to gang up on anybody.

il2Wd9k.png

They're not terribly mobile - 6 Move compared to the 7 that Fire Dragons have - but they can cross water tiles, which Fire Dragons (including transformed Bantu) can't. However, since they're still slowed down by swimming, this probably makes it even easier to fight them in a controlled manner.

oDjfewl.png__7CVMUhJ.png

Case in point - which doubles as a small check if I understand some AI basics correctly. Namely, I've made the observation that the AI will always prefer to attack characters that can't counterattack, even over potential kills, so I wanted to test that theory with Bantu in range of two enemies here, with Matthis functioning as a distraction.

Result: Inconclusive. The Dragon to the right moved first, so he didn't have a kill vs. Bantu anyway.

efrDcgl.png

Oh, right, forgot about the Wyverns above the boss, both when playing and now when typing this up. Luckily I only entered their range after all Ice Dragons (minus the boss) were dead, and with a full-health Marth.

uM9hswo.png

What makes this map a lot less difficult than the New Mystery version is its relative lack of reinforcements. It does have Ice Dragons spawning from that fort west of the boss, but it's only that one potential spawn per turn, and only with a 30% chance, according to FEWoD. In New Mystery, I always make sure that I can kill the boss and seize on the same time to avoid the reinforcements triggered by stepping on the central island, but these just don't exist in Old Mystery.

G43HaX9.png

Didn't forget the boots!

...did forget the Secret Shop, but I don't think I'll miss it too much. An extra Physic or two would've been nice, maybe, but I think I'll be fine.

RCs4uRd.png

11 turn clear in the end. This map felt a bit like an FE1 map, in that it consisted of two, maybe three turns of interesting fighting (specifically engaging the group of Ice Dragons) and then a bunch of walking about. Not terribly interesting, to be honest.

THMpsw7.png: "Hey, Xane. Gotoh didn't really mention anything about the five spheres, but I thought they were very important. Do you know anything about them?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Gotoh was afraid of shocking you so he didn't say anything. I will tell you. However, after I've told you, you'll probably think it was better off not knowing. The spheres rest on the shield that seals the Earth Dragons... Basically they are part of the Binding Shield. Since ancient times, the Divine Dragons have passed down these sacred jewels, each possessing different powers. To put it simply, the shield is just a pedestral and the five Spheres are what creates the power of the seal. So if any of the Spheres is lost the seal will weaken."
THMpsw7.png: "Hmm, is that so? But, how comes the Spheres were scattered?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Because the shield was broken. The Binding Shield was displayed at the Fane of Raman, and it was stolen by somebody who ended up breaking it..."
THMpsw7.png: "When did that happen?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Around 600 years ago. To recover the shield, Gotoh spent many years searching the lands. In the end, he only found the five Spheres, with the shield nowhere to be seen. Not only that, but the five spheres, which he painfully collected, were scattered again after the Fane of Raman was attacked in the previous war."
THMpsw7.png: "Really? ...So that was why Gotoh was looking for the lost jewels... the Spheres?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Yep, the Star, Light and Geo... as well as the Dark and Life Spheres. The Lightsphere is in Gotoh's possession, the Starsphere was shattered and the Darksphere was given to Hardin by Gharnef."
THMpsw7.png: "The Geosphere is in Altea, and all that remains is the Lifesphere."
TYz0Huh.png: "Ah... Anyway, let's enter the temple. From now on I will also help you fight. Well, let's go!"

God, it's more cliffhangers than on telenovela. Xane even opens this exposition segment with some dramatic "Ooo, you won't like what you're about to hear" and still stops short before getting to the good part.

In-universe, it would be pretty clear to everybody that "around 600 years ago" was "around the founding of Akaneia", considering that the calender is calibrated on that date.

The Team:

	Lv. 	   HP Str Skl Spd Lck WLv Def Res  +XP
Marth	13.41	   32  13  12  12  15  10  11   0  +100
Arran	*/10.13	   23  11  11  13   4  11  12   6  +80
Matthis	14.40	   26  12  14  11   9  14   9   2  +140	(+5 Lck, +5 Skl)
Catria	17.45	   33  16  19  20  10  17  15   6  +120

Caeda	14.86	   24  11  15  20  18  17  12   7  +140
Julian	11.98	   22  12  12  18  11   9   8   0  +50
Warren	16.04	   32  13  12  16   3  11   8   2  +50	(+5 Spd)
Bantu	9.49	   25   6  14   8   1   2   5   1  +260	(+7 HP, +10 Skl)

Jubelo	20/4.14	   25  20  11  18  16  20   9   8  +140
Wendell	*/12.15	   29   9   8  13   6  15   5   7  +90	(+5 Str)
Yuliya	15.02	   20  10   9  13  16  15   3   6  +114
Phina	7.40	   18   4   7  15  13   6   4   0  +60
  • I wouldn't believe myself with these suspiciously neat XP gains on this map (clearly he's just guesstimating!!!), but that's what happens when every enemy gives 40 or 50 XP when killed, and chip damage (as long as it's more than just a few points) yields 10 XP.
  • Str/Spd on what is likely Arran's last relevant level-up. Overall he gained +3 Str, +2 Spd, and +2 Def - not as much as I was hoping before going into Book 2, but it'll hopefully keep him viable in the future at least for outdoor maps.
  • Bantu gained +2 Str and +1 Def this map, which puts him at a total of +4 Str and +2 Def.

 

On 1/25/2024 at 6:19 PM, BrightBow said:

Much wiser than humans but they still lost their minds because they refused to use easily available countermeasures to their affliction.
...fair enough, I suppose.

I can't believe Kaga predicted covidiots.

On 1/25/2024 at 6:19 PM, BrightBow said:

And hey maybe they can still give birth if they mate while they are really young. Judging by Awakening logic anyway.

Well, Tiki can poop out Morgan, too, can't she? I have a nagging suspicion that consistency with Akaneia lore wasn't #1 on the list of priorities.

On 1/25/2024 at 8:16 PM, Jotari said:

If we're still taling about wild interpretations of Xane's character than I submit the headcanon that it was secretly Xane acting as Desiax's body double in Gaiden. He has a Dracoshield, don't tell me that's a coincidence!

Not bad. A more silly headcanon would be that Zola (? - the Fates villain posing as the hair guy) is actually an aging, planes-hopping Xane, too. What a tragic end to such a zany life of hijinks that would be.

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9 minutes ago, ping said:

THMpsw7.png: "Mmm... Thank you, Xane."
TYz0Huh.png: "Don't... don't be silly. I'll get embarrassed.

Ok no but yeah he's 100% into Marthipan though. Caeda's not going to like that.

10 minutes ago, ping said:

(also, don't thank the guy who's pulling a "credit to your race", Marthipan)

...Although, considering he's racist, that might be for the best...

We're not painting the brightest image of Xane here, are we.

11 minutes ago, ping said:

rqyxQZ4.png

Ice dragons aren't terribly scary, to be honest.

Adds up to FE12. They're so slow and immobile that there, too, they're the least scary dragon type.

11 minutes ago, ping said:

An80J6U.png

As a matter of fact, Bantu one-shots them.

This truly do be Bantu's game.

13 minutes ago, ping said:

yZVLGNn.png

...while Matthis and Caeda take out the enemies west of the starting location.

Good Unit Matthis.

14 minutes ago, ping said:

God, it's more cliffhangers than on telenovela. Xane even opens this exposition segment with some dramatic "Ooo, you won't like what you're about to hear" and still stops short before getting to the good part.

Plot twist: That's what he meant by that first part. Xane was always going to stop before the good part, which Marth wouldn't like. Gotoh expressly ordered him to do it this way to be as much of a nuisance as possible.

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2 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...Although, considering he's racist, that might be for the best...

We're not painting the brightest image of Xane here, are we.

I mean, he is pretty racist. Maybe understandably so, since he personally witnessed humans murder Manaketes, but "my kind is the most smartest in the world" is, like, the purest form of 19th-century-Europe racism.

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2 hours ago, ping said:

Well, Tiki can poop out Morgan, too, can't she? I have a nagging suspicion that consistency with Akaneia lore wasn't #1 on the list of priorities.

I wish it was at least a higher priority than pandering to the folks responsible for all the Tiki porn in the 90s and early 2000s. "We need to give players a baby dragon to fuck, dammit. That's more important than looking up the script of the game we literally just made a remake of."
At least have enough respect for your audience to pretend to respect them.
 

2 hours ago, ping said:

THMpsw7.png: "But, that was quite the shock. Tiki is actually the daughter of the Divine Dragon King. Also, both Gotoh and you are Divine Dragons."

And here I thought Xane was just a normal shapeshifter.
 

2 hours ago, ping said:

TYz0Huh.png: "Ah... When the Divine Dragons fought the Earth Dragons they over-exhausted their dragonstones, and so practically became extinct. Aside from Naga, only Gotoh, me and the just born Tiki survived. However, after the war we discarded our dragonstones, so we could no longer become dragons again. Even so, I still ahve knowledge and power that exceeds that of humans. Gotoh followed Naga's orders to protect humans, but that's got nothing to do with me. I don't like humans. They scorned the Manaketes, even though they had lost their power, and treated them like filth. I can fully understand why Medeus and the others hated humans so much. The Earth Dragon King, Medeus, tricked his own tribe and became a Manakete by himself. He used to follow Naga's orders and guarded the Dragon's Table. However, the once docile humans finally achieved power and becamse aggressive. They even started to attack the Manaketes that lived in peace. The Manaketes were angered by the betrayal of humans, and gathered at the Dolhr region. They formed their own kingdom of Manaketes and began a war to conquer the humans. To save humans, Gotoh handed the Falchion to Anri and he created an academy of magic at Khadein. But whoever won wasn't any of my concern."

I could definitely do with a retranslation of this paragraph.

I get the sense Medeus "tricking" his own tribe wasn't the intended choice of words here. Probably just means that his decision was at odds with what his own people were generally doing.
Although in the same line he is also called the "Earth Dragon King" here. So not exactly some random individual of the tribe, assuming that is correct.

This paragraph would most certainly make more sense to me if Medeus only ever was the king of Dolhr. Not of the Earth Dragons tribe back when they were still around.
 

2 hours ago, ping said:

The Barbarians have swapped from Devil to Silver Axes, so they hit less hard, but significantly more accurately than before.

I wouldn't want to mess with guys running around shirtless on an ice map.
 

2 hours ago, ping said:

Ice dragons aren't terribly scary, to be honest. They have higher Res than Fire Dragons and Wyverns, but that's balanced out by their rather low HP, compared to Wyverns (40 HP) and Fire Dragons (48 HP).

Funnily enough they are still tied with Demon Dragons as the most physically bulky option for Tiki, since HP is always doubled regardless of the transformation.
...of course no real reason to pick them over Demon Dragons. Besides their map sprite being funny, I suppose.
 

2 hours ago, ping said:

11 turn clear in the end. This map felt a bit like an FE1 map, in that it consisted of two, maybe three turns of interesting fighting (specifically engaging the group of Ice Dragons) and then a bunch of walking about. Not terribly interesting, to be honest.

Waste of a cool tileset / 10

Same as last map, except this time it's a pun.
 

2 hours ago, ping said:

TYz0Huh.png: "Gotoh was afraid of shocking you so he didn't say anything. I will tell you. However, after I've told you, you'll probably think it was better off not knowing. The spheres rest on the shield that seals the Earth Dragons... Basically they are part of the Binding Shield. Since ancient times, the Divine Dragons have passed down these sacred jewels, each possessing different powers. To put it simply, the shield is just a pedestral and the five Spheres are what creates the power of the seal. So if any of the Spheres is lost the seal will weaken."

I suppose the shield can't be a mere pedestal. If it was, it wouldn't matter where the orbs are located. Clearly it does some kind of work to channel their powers towards the intended purpose.
 

2 hours ago, ping said:

TYz0Huh.png: "Around 600 years ago. To recover the shield, Gotoh spent many years searching the lands. In the end, he only found the five Spheres, with the shield nowhere to be seen. Not only that, but the five spheres, which he painfully collected, were scattered again after the Fane of Raman was attacked in the previous war."

People really need to stop putting things into such an unsafe location.
 

2 hours ago, ping said:

TYz0Huh.png: "Yep, the Star, Light and Geo... as well as the Dark and Life Spheres. The Lightsphere is in Gotoh's possession, the Starsphere was shattered and the Darksphere was given to Hardin by Gharnef."
THMpsw7.png: "The Geosphere is in Altea, and all that remains is the Lifesphere."

Hey Marth, you sure you don't wanna talk some more about what Xane just said about Gharnef? You know, the guy you thought you killed. Goto only told you he has no idea how the Dark Orb ended up with Hardin.
I guess at this point Marth just accepts that no one actually died in Book 1.

 

2 hours ago, ping said:

God, it's more cliffhangers than on telenovela. Xane even opens this exposition segment with some dramatic "Ooo, you won't like what you're about to hear" and still stops short before getting to the good part.

In-universe, it would be pretty clear to everybody that "around 600 years ago" was "around the founding of Akaneia", considering that the calender is calibrated on that date.

Why do I get the sense that the final map of FE6 is based on this series of map? You know, exposition dump, walking, exposition dump, walking, exposition dump, walking...
Though Guinevere also gives her backstory in a similar manner.
 

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

This truly do be Bantu's game.

It's so beautiful.

Edited by BrightBow
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4 hours ago, ping said:

FE3 Book 2 Chapter 13: Frozen Land

  Hide contents

9ouqTJU.png

5000 metres... No, higher than that. Looking down, a sea of clouds can be seen. They have reaced the summit of the cold mountain peak. Breathing is difficult... Dizziness is felt... Their vitality is fast approaching its limits.

Glad to see that the American patch still uses Metric!
(Yes, I know why that is. You'll also notice that spelling tends to be British, too, as far as I can tell as a non-native speaker. Additional 'u's and all that.)

THMpsw7.png: "Xane, we've already climed this high. It's so cold... Even breathing is hard."
TYz0Huh.png: "We're almost there. Look, can you see over there? That's the Ice Dragon Shrine where Gotoh is."
THMpsw7.png: "But, that was quite the shock. Tiki is actually the daughter of the Divine Dragon King. Also, both Gotoh and you are Divine Dragons."
TYz0Huh.png: "Ah... When the Divine Dragons fought the Earth Dragons they over-exhausted their dragonstones, and so practically became extinct. Aside from Naga, only Gotoh, me and the just born Tiki survived. However, after the war we discarded our dragonstones, so we could no longer become dragons again. Even so, I still ahve knowledge and power that exceeds that of humans. Gotoh followed Naga's orders to protect humans, but that's got nothing to do with me. I don't like humans. They scorned the Manaketes, even though they had lost their power, and treated them like filth. I can fully understand why Medeus and the others hated humans so much. The Earth Dragon King, Medeus, tricked his own tribe and became a Manakete by himself. He used to follow Naga's orders and guarded the Dragon's Table. However, the once docile humans finally achieved power and becamse aggressive. They even started to attack the Manaketes that lived in peace. The Manaketes were angered by the betrayal of humans, and gathered at the Dolhr region. They formed their own kingdom of Manaketes and began a war to conquer the humans. To save humans, Gotoh handed the Falchion to Anri and he created an academy of magic at Khadein. But whoever won wasn't any of my concern."
THMpsw7.png: "Then, why are you helping me? I'm also a human..."
TYz0Huh.png: "You're different from the others. You don't seem like an unreliable person either..."
THMpsw7.png: "Mmm... Thank you, Xane."
TYz0Huh.png: "Don't... don't be silly. I'll get embarrassed. Anyway, let's head to the temple, but be careful of the Ice Dragons. Although they're also wild dragons, they will instinctively try to protect their temple. Poor guys..."

Ah, here's the inconsistency with Khadein's founding date. Chapter 9's opening says "hundreds of years ago", but Anri's journey only happened ~110 years before Marth retreats it. Wiki (referencing Serenesforest) even dates the founding of Khadein at 550 (Akaneia Reckoning), which is 52-54 earlier than FE1's events, and 57 years before Book 2.

(also, don't thank the guy who's pulling a "credit to your race", Marthipan)

GpLUQNw.png

Anyway, the map! It's pretty empty, and as a result not terribly exciting despite its strong enemies.

VTBjfEK.png

The Barbarians have swapped from Devil to Silver Axes, so they hit less hard, but significantly more accurately than before.

rqyxQZ4.png

Ice dragons aren't terribly scary, to be honest. They have higher Res than Fire Dragons and Wyverns, but that's balanced out by their rather low HP, compared to Wyverns (40 HP) and Fire Dragons (48 HP).

An80J6U.png

As a matter of fact, Bantu one-shots them. It's a very glasscannon-y match-up, since they both deal effective damage and Bantu is two-shot as a result, too.

egpZM6u.png

General direction: counter-clockwise. Catria can clear the Barbs to the north (she precisely one-rounds with Silver)...

yZVLGNn.png

...while Matthis and Caeda take out the enemies west of the starting location. They need one or two Physic charges to do so on their own, but that's not too bad, and it's handy that they can catch up to the rest of the group quickly.

8ooaLpk.png__cmSH1nw.png

The most interesting part of the fight is that the five Ice Dragons surrounding the "boss" (who is another generic Ice Dragon)  start the map aggressive. They're obviously still strong enough to kill anything (not only Bantu) in two hits, so you have to be careful to not allow them to gang up on anybody.

il2Wd9k.png

They're not terribly mobile - 6 Move compared to the 7 that Fire Dragons have - but they can cross water tiles, which Fire Dragons (including transformed Bantu) can't. However, since they're still slowed down by swimming, this probably makes it even easier to fight them in a controlled manner.

oDjfewl.png__7CVMUhJ.png

Case in point - which doubles as a small check if I understand some AI basics correctly. Namely, I've made the observation that the AI will always prefer to attack characters that can't counterattack, even over potential kills, so I wanted to test that theory with Bantu in range of two enemies here, with Matthis functioning as a distraction.

Result: Inconclusive. The Dragon to the right moved first, so he didn't have a kill vs. Bantu anyway.

efrDcgl.png

Oh, right, forgot about the Wyverns above the boss, both when playing and now when typing this up. Luckily I only entered their range after all Ice Dragons (minus the boss) were dead, and with a full-health Marth.

uM9hswo.png

What makes this map a lot less difficult than the New Mystery version is its relative lack of reinforcements. It does have Ice Dragons spawning from that fort west of the boss, but it's only that one potential spawn per turn, and only with a 30% chance, according to FEWoD. In New Mystery, I always make sure that I can kill the boss and seize on the same time to avoid the reinforcements triggered by stepping on the central island, but these just don't exist in Old Mystery.

G43HaX9.png

Didn't forget the boots!

...did forget the Secret Shop, but I don't think I'll miss it too much. An extra Physic or two would've been nice, maybe, but I think I'll be fine.

RCs4uRd.png

11 turn clear in the end. This map felt a bit like an FE1 map, in that it consisted of two, maybe three turns of interesting fighting (specifically engaging the group of Ice Dragons) and then a bunch of walking about. Not terribly interesting, to be honest.

THMpsw7.png: "Hey, Xane. Gotoh didn't really mention anything about the five spheres, but I thought they were very important. Do you know anything about them?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Gotoh was afraid of shocking you so he didn't say anything. I will tell you. However, after I've told you, you'll probably think it was better off not knowing. The spheres rest on the shield that seals the Earth Dragons... Basically they are part of the Binding Shield. Since ancient times, the Divine Dragons have passed down these sacred jewels, each possessing different powers. To put it simply, the shield is just a pedestral and the five Spheres are what creates the power of the seal. So if any of the Spheres is lost the seal will weaken."
THMpsw7.png: "Hmm, is that so? But, how comes the Spheres were scattered?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Because the shield was broken. The Binding Shield was displayed at the Fane of Raman, and it was stolen by somebody who ended up breaking it..."
THMpsw7.png: "When did that happen?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Around 600 years ago. To recover the shield, Gotoh spent many years searching the lands. In the end, he only found the five Spheres, with the shield nowhere to be seen. Not only that, but the five spheres, which he painfully collected, were scattered again after the Fane of Raman was attacked in the previous war."
THMpsw7.png: "Really? ...So that was why Gotoh was looking for the lost jewels... the Spheres?"
TYz0Huh.png: "Yep, the Star, Light and Geo... as well as the Dark and Life Spheres. The Lightsphere is in Gotoh's possession, the Starsphere was shattered and the Darksphere was given to Hardin by Gharnef."
THMpsw7.png: "The Geosphere is in Altea, and all that remains is the Lifesphere."
TYz0Huh.png: "Ah... Anyway, let's enter the temple. From now on I will also help you fight. Well, let's go!"

God, it's more cliffhangers than on telenovela. Xane even opens this exposition segment with some dramatic "Ooo, you won't like what you're about to hear" and still stops short before getting to the good part.

In-universe, it would be pretty clear to everybody that "around 600 years ago" was "around the founding of Akaneia", considering that the calender is calibrated on that date.

The Team:

	Lv. 	   HP Str Skl Spd Lck WLv Def Res  +XP
Marth	13.41	   32  13  12  12  15  10  11   0  +100
Arran	*/10.13	   23  11  11  13   4  11  12   6  +80
Matthis	14.40	   26  12  14  11   9  14   9   2  +140	(+5 Lck, +5 Skl)
Catria	17.45	   33  16  19  20  10  17  15   6  +120

Caeda	14.86	   24  11  15  20  18  17  12   7  +140
Julian	11.98	   22  12  12  18  11   9   8   0  +50
Warren	16.04	   32  13  12  16   3  11   8   2  +50	(+5 Spd)
Bantu	9.49	   25   6  14   8   1   2   5   1  +260	(+7 HP, +10 Skl)

Jubelo	20/4.14	   25  20  11  18  16  20   9   8  +140
Wendell	*/12.15	   29   9   8  13   6  15   5   7  +90	(+5 Str)
Yuliya	15.02	   20  10   9  13  16  15   3   6  +114
Phina	7.40	   18   4   7  15  13   6   4   0  +60
  • I wouldn't believe myself with these suspiciously neat XP gains on this map (clearly he's just guesstimating!!!), but that's what happens when every enemy gives 40 or 50 XP when killed, and chip damage (as long as it's more than just a few points) yields 10 XP.
  • Str/Spd on what is likely Arran's last relevant level-up. Overall he gained +3 Str, +2 Spd, and +2 Def - not as much as I was hoping before going into Book 2, but it'll hopefully keep him viable in the future at least for outdoor maps.
  • Bantu gained +2 Str and +1 Def this map, which puts him at a total of +4 Str and +2 Def.

I think it's a slight shame we just have generic dragons as the bosses of these characters. It would be nice to have an actual character or two to represent these nomad tribes, which are actually a really interesting idea. They seem way less technologically and socially advanced than the kingdoms, but are basically unconquered due to their trump card of training freaking dragons. It's a wild idea.

4 hours ago, ping said:

Well, Tiki can poop out Morgan, too, can't she? I have a nagging suspicion that consistency with Akaneia lore wasn't #1 on the list of priorities.

Tiki also says Nah is the only known human dragon hybrid in history (which she can say even if she has a human dragon daughter of her own!), which I call bullshit on. No way the cast of Awakening were the first people in history degenerate enough to fuck a dragon.

4 hours ago, ping said:

Not bad. A more silly headcanon would be that Zola (? - the Fates villain posing as the hair guy) is actually an aging, planes-hopping Xane, too. What a tragic end to such a zany life of hijinks that would be.

Zola does deserve more praise for his genuinely amazing Izana impersonation. He is damn proud of it and rightfully so, but all he gets is scorn and humiliation no matter which route Corrin chooses.

4 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Ok no but yeah he's 100% into Marthipan though. Caeda's not going to like that.

...Although, considering he's racist, that might be for the best...

We're not painting the brightest image of Xane here, are we.

Adds up to FE12. They're so slow and immobile that there, too, they're the least scary dragon type.

This truly do be Bantu's game.

Good Unit Matthis.

Plot twist: That's what he meant by that first part. Xane was always going to stop before the good part, which Marth wouldn't like. Gotoh expressly ordered him to do it this way to be as much of a nuisance as possible.

 

4 hours ago, ping said:

I mean, he is pretty racist. Maybe understandably so, since he personally witnessed humans murder Manaketes, but "my kind is the most smartest in the world" is, like, the purest form of 19th-century-Europe racism.

There is something bizarrely refreshing about the racist, capricious troll who is nevertheless depicted as a good guy because his social circle aligns with the protagonist. It's like if Shinon was less of a dick, and also immortal.

2 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Although in the same line he is also called the "Earth Dragon King" here. So not exactly some random individual of the tribe, assuming that is correct.

This paragraph would most certainly make more sense to me if Medeus only ever was the king of Dolhr. Not of the Earth Dragons tribe back when they were still around.
 

Dolhr was only formed in the lifetime of Anri, so unlike the Begnion-Goldoa parallel, it's actually half a millennium younger than Archanea as a state, unless Medeus was re-establishing an empire there. The term I've also seen thrown around for Medeus has always been the Earth Dragon Prince, which in English is a vague term since Principalities exist, but if the translators were using prince I would imagine it's because the original Japanese is saying "Royalty but not Monarch" position. Unless I'm imagining the prince thing. Let me check heroes real quick...oh no, they say Earth Dragon King there too. Where am I getting Earth Dragon Prince from? I doubt I just made that up 🤔

2 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Hey Marth, you sure you don't wanna talk some more about what Xane just said about Gharnef? You know, the guy you thought you killed. Goto only told you he has no idea how the Dark Orb ended up with Hardin.
I guess at this point Marth just accepts that no one actually died in Book 1.

That is actually an excellent observation. Gotoh said, like, two chapters ago that he didn't know how Hardin got the Dark Sphere, and now Xane is just casually mentioning Gharnef gave him it. How does Xane know that? Did he figure it out by himself? Is he smarter or more informed than Gotoh? Or did Gotoh discover it while sleuthing off screen...and then he remotely told Xane but not Marth despite the two of them being together the whole time, I guess because he just doesn't like talking to Marth and that's the whole reason Xane is here. And most importantly, why just casually toss out this info here? I mean, we could have left it a Mystery (pun intended but also unavoidable) how Hardin got the dark orb until the end of the game and then have all the pieces fall into place when Gharnef reveals himself at Archanea castle. "How did Hardin get the Dark Orb anyway" could even have been the perfect note to end the incomplete ending on to encourage you to play the game better to find out.

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FE3 Book 2 Chapter 14: Mystery Revealed

Spoiler

zEDGJbc.png

Tiki was created as the daughter of the Divine Dragon King, Naga, and slept in the temple because of the king's will. The king's fear of Tiki's power was that of a loving father's. If Tiki was to awaken, her tremendous power would eventually cause the destruction of the world... That is what the Divine Dragon King feared. However, Bantu, the king's servant, became attached to Tiki after watching over her for a period of hundreds of years. He awoke her from her sleep, and took her away. So Tiki only had 10 human years worth of memory... "That is so sad, Tiki..." Marth was too bewildered to think.

Although I think we've established that bewilderment is Marth's natural state.

THMpsw7.png: "This is the Ice Dragon Shrine. Anri's final destination..."
5LmJEnD.png: "Yes. It was here that Anri obtained the Falchion, which he used to defeat Medeus with. Then, encouraged by the citizens of Altea, he became their first king."
THMpsw7.png: "But, in the end he wasn't able to be with Artemis... Why? Why weren't they loving together?"

 

"Why didn't they fucking fuck?" - Prince Marth of Altea, 604 A.R. (The Problem With Gotoh, p.1053)

 

5LmJEnD.png: "The nobles of Archanea didn't want Anri, a former peasant, to become their own king. Instead they encouraged the princess to marry the leader of the liberation army, Duke Cartas. Princess Artemis was unable to refuse. 'The bearer of the Fire Emblem, must give their life to the royal family'. That is a saying passed down unchangingly by the Archanea royal family. The princess didn't tell Anri anything and accepted Cartas's engagement."

THMpsw7.png: "How could she...? That was unfair to Anri."
5LmJEnD.png: "What was worse was that the princess died immediately after giving birth to her newborn prince. Also King Anri never married in his life. The Kingdom of Altea was succeeded by his younger brother, King Marcelus... That is to say, your highness's great grandfather."
THMpsw7.png: "Such a tragic tale... So that was Artemis's fate? All because of the curse of the Fire Emblem...?"

24sNDfn.png

This map is, honestly, a bit dumb. You have this big group of scary Ice Dragons looming ahead - yes, they're the least threatening type of dragon, but this many at once is still very dangerous, especially with their 1-2 range making it easier for them to gang up on somebody.

However, I believe the map can be trivialised very easily by retreating a few steps: Lure in and kill the nearest dragon, then let the thieves come towards you without moving forward. The Ice Dragons don't seem to chase after you, so you can split the enemy forces and engage them at your leasure playing like that.

LKfaKId.png__N264Quv.png

We're not going to do that, though.

Now, this is obviously not a safe formation at all, with multiple characters in range of more than one dragon.

voT9rFF.png__ePLDkol.png

However, this is also turn 1, so it's easy to just fish for some misses. Necessary? Absolutely not. There's no reinforcements, no time pressure at all on this map. A defensive approach is the easiest way to play the map, but that means that it's also the most boring.

t4UeqEG.png

Well, OK, there's technically one thing with a time limit - to catch the Thief carrying the Warp staff. But since this is completely independent from breaking through the Ice Dragons, I don't think that really counts.

KgnRYrT.png__ZnZUCwy.png

Next part of unnecessary risks. Warren is (if we ignore the low% crit for a second) well-suited to distract two enemy Thieves; Bantu is great as he always is; but it's a three-tile choke and everybody else one-rounds the Thieves while taking big damage from their Devil Swords.

Vs4ckj2.png__zqzQgQs.png

Luckily, the Thieves are very stupid. No idea why they attacked Bantu over Matthis there.

If this hadn't happened, I would've swapped Jeorge in as another guy who can't counter at 1-range. But hey, I'll take the lucky break.

JdiRyEk.png__HrAkAJj.png

Unfortunately, this is basically the end of the fight, but the walking continues. The three Ice Dragons in the corridor to the right can just be baited one by one, and there's literally zero other enemies left on the map. Marth just has to march back and forth for a few turns to (1) grab the Orbs in the center, (2) get Tiki to the right, and (3) seize to the left. Unnecessary walking. Blegh.

1F33Y4B.png

(1 - G🤮t🤮h)

nDWPpiw.png: "Prince Marth, you finally came! I should have expected nothing less from the one who possesses the heroic bloodline of Anri. To reward your courage, I will hand the Lightsphere to you. With this, the Darksphere will lose its power and it will no longer be impossible to fight Hardin. Also, about the Starsphere shards... What!? You found all the shards? Thank you, then the Starsphere can be restored. Please wait a moment... Marth, this is the Starsphere. You can take this with you as well."
THMpsw7.png: "Huh? Gotoh, why are you giving such an important item to me?"
nDWPpiw.png: "The only person that can restore the Binding Shield is you... The Shield, itself, has chosen you."
THMpsw7.png: ".....?"
nDWPpiw.png: "You still don't understand? The Emblem shield you're carrying is the stolen Binding Shield. To be honest, it was only recently that I noticed; its exterior had completely changed... After stealing it from the Fane of Raman, the thief removed its jewels and sold them off as treasures. The money was used to fund an army, which, along with three stolen weapons, was used to conquer the world. The thief that went on to become the king of Archanea had the shield, which brought him such good fortune, become the emblem of his royal family. Noe do you understand, Marth? It is what you are carrying, Archanea's Fire Emblem."
THMpsw7.png: "!! What... ...The first king of Archanea was originally a thief!? Is that true...? In that case, I can kind of understand the curse of the Fire Emblem... Then, Gotoh... If I can collect all five Spheres, can I restore the Binding Shield?"
nDWPpiw.png: "Mmm... But please hurry up. The shield has already been broken for 600 years... It is almost time for the Earth Dragons, sealed underneath Macedon, to awaken from their slumber. Those evil Earth Dragons number several hundreds... No, several thousands. Once they awaken there will be nothing that we can do... I will leave Tiki in your care. You can find her in the room to the right. That Divine Dragon child should be able to help you battle the Earth Dragons. But, I will state clearly, if the Binding Shield is not restored, Tiki will be destroyed."
THMpsw7.png: "Huh...!? Why is that..."
nDWPpiw.png: "That child is still developing. Without the Binding Shield she will begin to degenerate. Eventually she will become wild and attack humans. I made her sleep, because I felt sad for her. But, if the Binding Shield is restored I will no longer have to worry, because the shield will protect Tiki. Marth, please take care of Tiki. You must rescue that child from the path of ruin."

iAEWUQp.png

Aaand on to objective #2, with zero resistance on the path. Riveting gameplay, moving Marth about and all that. At least we got the Boots last chapter.

ICiLqqj.png__MrFN7PV.png

Bonus points, however, for Marth moving these three tiles by himself, instead of wasting another turn for the player to do that.

(2 - Tiki)

THMpsw7.png: "Tiki!? Are you alright..."
jmaeyBF.png: "Uh... ...Marth... .....! Oh Marth!! You came! You came to see Tiki!!"
THMpsw7.png: "Yes, I hadn't seen Tiki in a long time. Are you feeling well?"
jmaeyBF.png: "Uh... No. The bishop told me that I had to sleep again. But I don't want to... Because when I sleep I'm always alone. During my sleep, I dreamt many nightmares. There, I became a wild dragon, like those poor Fire Dragons and Ice Dragons. I attacked humans, and I killed them. No... No... When I awoke I was all alone in the dark room... I felt so strange, but also very scared... So very scared... But I couldn't leave that room. I cried many times, and then Uncle Bantu would come to comfort me as usual. One day he took me away, and took me to a human village. Living in that village was very fun, and everybody treated me well... In the short time, until I was discovered by Gharnef, I felt really happy. I don't want to sleep anymore... I feel that if I close my eyes once more, I will be unable to open them ever again. I don't want that. I want to live with everyone, I don't want to sleep again!"
THMpsw7.png: "Tiki, it's alright now. I will protect you, so don't cry..."
jmaeyBF.png: "Really...? I won't need to see those scary dreams again!?"
THMpsw7.png: "That's right!! Once the shield is restored, Tiki can live together with the rest of us. Don't worry, believe in me!"
jmaeyBF.png: "Ah! I'm so happy!! Thank you, Marth!"

lvG4Wa2.png

[Str 80% | Str 40% | Skl 30% | Spd 60% | Lck 60% | WLv 0 | Def 0]

Tiki's a fair bit stronger than in Book 1 - most notably +3 Str, +2 Def, and +2 HP (+4 transformed), while only gaining a single level. It's unfortunate that she comes the second we stop fighting dragons, but I expect that she's at least a lot better than in New Mystery.

Interestingly, her growths have been tuned down by a decent amount: It used to be 50% Str and 90s Skl/Spd/Lck. I don't think that's as big a deal as the numbers suggest, though, since I believe she's already very accurate, she doesn't use her Spd stat, and her base Lck is perfectly fine.

3Fgy7ry.png__1600pLe.png

Her transformation, for reference. Her dragon form looks good now.

04Vx4CS.png__tsCja1I.png

And before getting to (3 - seize), Yumina warps Catria over to grab a MageStone. I would've liked a FlyingStone in case the mobility would be useful in a future map, but I forgot that I'm not all that rich right now. I could've sold two Manuals otherwise, but eh. We're not going to use more than 1-2 transformations per chapter, unless they become drastically more lengthy (and dangerous the entire time), and we even still have that extra FireStone lying around.

yn8bkh7.png__90enUIR.png

Final treasure (and yes, I know how OP the Again staff is in this) and...

oVBhc4O.png

So yeah, another not-so-great map. Anri's path as a whole is a bit of a low point of the game, both in gameplay and because the lore dump isn't really presented in a particularly interesting fashion. Not very sad that this arc is over now.

...after Gotoh gives one last speech. How nice.

nDWPpiw.png: "is that so...? So Tiki was that happy? It must have been hard for her, living like that. Although it was to protect that child, I did many bad things. She must hate me... Marth, you may leave. I will use my magic to send you to Altea instantly."
THMpsw7.png: "Gotoh, aren't you coming along with us?"
nDWPpiw.png: "Oh... I have something to investigate right now. You see, Gharnef has already began to act."
THMpsw7.png: "Gharnef ...!? But isn't he dead?"
nDWPpiw.png: "Yes, his body was destroyed, but his vile spirit lives on in the Darksphere. He has also awakened the evil priests that served him, and they appear to be planning something terrible."
THMpsw7.png: "Really...? I see, Gotoh. Well, we'll move out then."
nDWPpiw.png: "Mmm... Once I find anything, I will contact you immediately. Good luck, Marth. Everything is in your hands. Please rescue dragons and humans from the path to ruin."

Goodbye, shitty Gandalf.

I've started to type variations of "I don't like Book 2's story because..." and then deleted it, because I can't quite put my finger on why I don't like it. I guess it feels like it throws new stuff at you and then just moves on to the next stuff..? Like, we've introduced the Awful Truth about Akaneia's royal family, and now we're doing what exactly with it?

Plus, I don't really like the Schrödingerity of Gharnef and Medeus's natures. They're built up as villains with human motivations: Gharnef was jealous of Miloah, Medeus was seeking revenge against humans. But then they're turned into these abstract forces of evil - Medeus already at the end of FE1/Book 1 with his "as long as there's evil in the hearts of humans" speech, and now Gharnef gets punted into the same bin with this "vile spirit lives on" silliness. Not a big fan of all that.

But enough about silly ~~story~~ 'n junk, here's some numbers:

The Team

	Lv. 	   HP Str Skl Spd Lck WLv Def Res  +XP
Marth	13.91	   32  13  12  12  15  10  11   0  +50
Matthis	15.90	   26  13  14  11   9  15   9   2  +150	(+5 Lck, +5 Skl)
Catria	17.85	   33  16  19  20  10  17  15   6  +40
Caeda	15.26	   24  12  16  21* 18  18  12   8  +40

Julian	12.38	   23  13  12  19  12  10   9   0  +40
Warren	17.21	   33  13  13  16   3  11   9   2  +117	(+5 Spd)
Bantu	11.19	   25   7  14   8   1   2   6   1  +170	(+7 HP, +10 Skl)
Tiki	6.00	   18   6   6   6  13  10   5  10  --	(base)

Jubelo	20/6.14	   26  20  11  20  16  20   9   9  +200
Wendell	*/12.55	   29   9   8  13   6  15   5   7  +40	(+5 Str)
Yuliya	16.00	   20  10   9  14  16  15   3   6  +98
Marisha	4.10	   17   2   2   6  13   6   1   5  +72

Phina	8.10	   18   4   8  16  14   7   4   0  +70
Xane	5.10	   20   3   3  11  10  12   6  10  +10	(base)
  • Oh, right, Xane. Not that his stats matter. But I think he might be better than in Book 1 because you can have characters with a bunch of Shard-assisted level-ups that he can transform into. Just look at that Jubelo. Or Catria, who hasn't even promoted yet. Speaking of, I really should start promoting more characters.
  • Malirishilicia was here to Hammerne a Wyrmslayer that was down to 1 use. Gotta use that for something, with staves not being a valid target, and I doubt that I'll blow all its uses on the Regalia. Sorry, Ruben.

 

22 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Hey Marth, you sure you don't wanna talk some more about what Xane just said about Gharnef? You know, the guy you thought you killed. Goto only told you he has no idea how the Dark Orb ended up with Hardin.
I guess at this point Marth just accepts that no one actually died in Book 1.

I completely missed that :lol: Or rather, I forgot that Gharnef's revival wasn't yet revealed at this point. Guess I should stop talking trash about Marth not paying enough attention.

22 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Why do I get the sense that the final map of FE6 is based on this series of map? You know, exposition dump, walking, exposition dump, walking, exposition dump, walking...
Though Guinevere also gives her backstory in a similar manner.

I found that Guinevere's backstory felt more natural in the way it was chopped up. It still had its moments of "Merlinus interrupts her at the worst possible time", but since the events were rather traumatic for her, as well, it didn't seem odd to me that Guinivere needed her time to get through everything.

Jahn's exposition dump was stupid in the exact same way that Xane's was, though.

20 hours ago, Jotari said:

I think it's a slight shame we just have generic dragons as the bosses of these characters. It would be nice to have an actual character or two to represent these nomad tribes, which are actually a really interesting idea. They seem way less technologically and socially advanced than the kingdoms, but are basically unconquered due to their trump card of training freaking dragons. It's a wild idea.

The generic (or non-existent, for this chapter) bosses also make the continuous exposition even worse. Literally nothing happens during the entire segment; it's all just Xane delivering backstory.

20 hours ago, Jotari said:

Zola does deserve more praise for his genuinely amazing Izana impersonation. He is damn proud of it and rightfully so, but all he gets is scorn and humiliation no matter which route Corrin chooses.

He also deserves credit for finding a way to end the war without further bloodshed, although he of course has to catch the idiot ball and just try to kill the Hoshidans instead of using them of hostages, so that Corrin can have the moral highground for fighting him.

 

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38 minutes ago, ping said:

5LmJEnD.png: "The nobles of Archanea didn't want Anri, a former peasant, to become their own king. Instead they encouraged the princess to marry the leader of the liberation army, Duke Cartas. Princess Artemis was unable to refuse. 'The bearer of the Fire Emblem, must give their life to the royal family'. That is a saying passed down unchangingly by the Archanea royal family. The princess didn't tell Anri anything and accepted Cartas's engagement."

THMpsw7.png: "How could she...? That was unfair to Anri."

Ah yes, because Artemis was probably just thrilled to be forced by the nobility into a political marriage that ended up killing her, abandoning a happy relationship. How could she beo so unfair to Anri, the beach.

 

38 minutes ago, ping said:

24sNDfn.png

This map is, honestly, a bit dumb. You have this big group of scary Ice Dragons looming ahead - yes, they're the least threatening type of dragon, but this many at once is still very dangerous, especially with their 1-2 range making it easier for them to gang up on somebody.

However, I believe the map can be trivialised very easily by retreating a few steps: Lure in and kill the nearest dragon, then let the thieves come towards you without moving forward. The Ice Dragons don't seem to chase after you, so you can split the enemy forces and engage them at your leasure playing like that.

It's always a doozy in FE12 because the enemies come all at once or not at all. And thieves in FE12 are formidable. And the ice dragons behind the walls are replaced with shaman.

...Fuck Gotoh, I swear...

38 minutes ago, ping said:

voT9rFF.png

Cool background though. Very nice.

38 minutes ago, ping said:

ICiLqqj.png__MrFN7PV.png

Bonus points, however, for Marth moving these three tiles by himself, instead of wasting another turn for the player to do that.

Hey that's something FE12 didn't do. Primarily because there's actual opposition in these chambers, so that's better there.

...Of course, the fact that there's no green units in FE12 means you can shank Tiki for no reason. Which is... I don't know if I want to say it's "good" but I do fucking love it.

38 minutes ago, ping said:

3Fgy7ry.png__1600pLe.png

Her transformation, for reference. Her dragon form looks good now.

That's actually downright majestic. This truly is the dragons' game.

38 minutes ago, ping said:

tsCja1I.png

YIKES they're expensive here.

...Though that beats them not existing at all in FE12 lunatic. Now that is something I won't defend. Warp's fucking fun and there's already just one of it in the game, why take it away?

38 minutes ago, ping said:

nDWPpiw.png: Although it was to protect that child, I did many bad things. She must hate me...

She's not the only fucking one, you asshole. What was the point of that entire arc, again?

38 minutes ago, ping said:

THMpsw7.png: "Gotoh, aren't you coming along with us?"
nDWPpiw.png: "Oh... I have something to investigate right now. You see, Gharnef has already began to act."

Also, this. This is... half-justified. It won't be justified the second time he pulls it, at which point the mysteries have all been uncovered, we know exactly what is happening and what will happen if Gharnef is not stopped. And yet this lazy bum doesn't join there either.

Now, I'm tempted to believe it's hardware limitations, considering he was also axed from book 1. But I fail to see why FE12 didn't amend that. It added the BSFE gang to the game but didn't make Gotoh bother to join the team?

38 minutes ago, ping said:

I've started to type variations of "I don't like Book 2's story because..." and then deleted it, because I can't quite put my finger on why I don't like it. I guess it feels like it throws new stuff at you and then just moves on to the next stuff..? Like, we've introduced the Awful Truth about Akaneia's royal family, and now we're doing what exactly with it?

Plus, I don't really like the Schrödingerity of Gharnef and Medeus's natures. They're built up as villains with human motivations: Gharnef was jealous of Miloah, Medeus was seeking revenge against humans. But then they're turned into these abstract forces of evil - Medeus already at the end of FE1/Book 1 with his "as long as there's evil in the hearts of humans" speech, and now Gharnef gets punted into the same bin with this "vile spirit lives on" silliness. Not a big fan of all that.

We talked about it before, but there's a lot about book 2 that makes it feel like a retread of book 1 all too often. Quite frankly, the more I think about it, the more I feel like the best way to improve book 2's story would be to just... ditch it. Entirely. It needed a different scope, a different set of villains, a different scale, a different conflict to explore than just "Gharnef is doing shit again and you whack Medeus at the end again." That's why Thracia 776 is a great sequel, Radiant Dawn is a great sequel until Ike happens and this is, a sequel. I'd suggest a Pyrathi insurrection or something but Pyrathi didn't exist in this game lololololol

21 hours ago, Jotari said:

Zola does deserve more praise for his genuinely amazing Izana impersonation. He is damn proud of it and rightfully so, but all he gets is scorn and humiliation no matter which route Corrin chooses.

Zola's Izana impression is so good that people see through it because there's no way a world leader is that silly.

And then it turns out the real Izana is even sillier. Izana's a treasure.

Also you quoted my entire response but didn't say anything about it

Edited by Saint Rubenio
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I know I haven't commented in this topic in a loooong while. -But I am still reading it.😃 I've just been exhausting most of my commenting energies for the past half-month on my reports of fighting against a dozen different bad guys in a whole 'nother SRPG.

-I'll also say I still prefer Old Mystery over New. Old charm and quirkiness > less-old difficulty + rebalancing, for me at least.

 

On 1/25/2024 at 11:36 AM, ping said:

All that said - this map still got even more teeth in the remake. Here, reinforcements are relatively tame - up to two Barbarians and a Fire Dragon spawning from the forts in our rear, but they all just have a 50-60% chance to appear each turn. No comparison to the multiple zone-based and turn-based reinforcements, which will really screw the player over even on non-lunatic difficulties.

They cremated me for sure, on Hard. The most memorable, but I don't think the last, time ambush reinforcements forced resets on me in NM.

 

32 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

YIKES they're expensive here.

As was said though, especially this late in Book 2, the transformation mechanics being what they are means if you buy one, you'll still have like half the charges left by the time Meddy is deaddy. Waaaaay better than the *gets shot a ballista one can't possibly counter, loses a Dstone use of 30* that IIRC happens in the DS remakes.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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19 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

It's always a doozy in FE12 because the enemies come all at once or not at all. And thieves in FE12 are formidable. And the ice dragons behind the walls are replaced with shaman.

Yeah, there's a few points in New Mystery that give me 'nam flashbacks and this is one of them.

21 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...Of course, the fact that there's no green units in FE12 means you can shank Tiki for no reason. Which is... I don't know if I want to say it's "good" but I do fucking love it.

Reasons why Ruben loves FE12..:

  1. Pope
  2. Pope Hat
  3. Stabbing little girls
21 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

YIKES they're expensive here.

And I didn't forget to bring the Silver Card, either. FEWoD recommends buying one of each, but I assume that FEWoD also recommends abuse of any arena you come across.

Honestly, I'm not sure how necessary these are, either. Like, 18 uses should easily last Tiki for the rest of the game, and Divine Dragon + Barrier already puts her at 17 Res, so I don't know how much mileage I'm going to get out of the Mage Dragon form.

26 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

It added the BSFE gang to the game but didn't make Gotoh bother to join the team?

Because any sensible person hates Gotoh, so why would you make any effort to give him more presence?

27 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

We talked about it before, but there's a lot about book 2 that makes it feel like a retread of book 1 all too often. Quite frankly, the more I think about it, the more I feel like the best way to improve book 2's story would be to just... ditch it. Entirely. It needed a different scope, a different set of villains, a different scale, a different conflict to explore than just "Gharnef is doing shit again and you whack Medeus at the end again." That's why Thracia 776 is a great sequel, Radiant Dawn is a great sequel until Ike happens and this is, a sequel. I'd suggest a Pyrathi insurrection or something but Pyrathi didn't exist in this game lololololol

Or let Mr Turban be the main villain. We need more villains that are irredeemable assholes. With a tragic backstory, but still irredeemable assholes.

(only problem is that these will then attract the "wasn't the Joker right, in a way" kind of fans)

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I know I haven't commented in this topic in a loooong while. -But I am still reading it.😃

Appreciated! :):

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

They cremated me for sure, on Hard. The most memorable, but I don't think the last, time ambush reinforcements forced resets on me in NM.

Kudos for DSFE for introducing save points. Fie on DSFE for then adding the kind of ambush spawns that necessitate save points.

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2 minutes ago, ping said:

Kudos for DSFE for introducing save points. Fie on DSFE for then adding the kind of ambush spawns that necessitate save points.

Save points are only useful IF you can salvage success from them.😜

-Even if you can, save points might save some time compared to starting over and trying again, but your sanity meter may get dangerously low. Reload, reload, reload. This is goo -no! Reload! Hammering away at your mind, rapid repetitive failure. You may survive to see another day, but you're going to have to repaint your entire house and tear out the flooring with how much the walls are bleeding.😵

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22 minutes ago, ping said:

Or let Mr Turban be the main villain. We need more villains that are irredeemable assholes. With a tragic backstory, but still irredeemable assholes.

(only problem is that these will then attract the "wasn't the Joker right, in a way" kind of fans)

Mr. Turban can definitely stay, he's already the original part of the story, but the scope and events of the war needed to be recontextualized. "Gharnef found another guy and he's doing the same things again" is not all that enticing. Heck, just expand on the initial stages of the game - familiar countries being embroiled in disorder due to corruption that went unchecked because everyone was too busy worrying about the Problem Dragon.

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2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Ah yes, because Artemis was probably just thrilled to be forced by the nobility into a political marriage that ended up killing her, abandoning a happy relationship. How could she beo so unfair to Anri, the beach.

Oh my god. I've just figured it out. The entire plot of Book 2. Hardin, Anri, the dates, it all fits. Kaga was just writing about the Princess Diana controversies. He just gender flipped it so the males were the ones being cucked. He just plagerized the headlines (for anyone not around at the time, that Diana stuff was really big news, like, I seriously don't get why people cared so much, but they did).

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Now, I'm tempted to believe it's hardware limitations, considering he was also axed from book 1. But I fail to see why FE12 didn't amend that. It added the BSFE gang to the game but didn't make Gotoh bother to join the team?

I don't think we can even chalk it up to that. Gotoh has stats in Old Mystery, you just never see them. He already exists as a unit and probably would be trivially easy to hack in (@emperorHardin do weigh in there). If the game was so incredibly tight you couldn't put a character in who is already finished then that is just atrociously bad coding.

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I'd suggest a Pyrathi insurrection or something but Pyrathi didn't exist in this game lololololol

Don't mock me!

 

2 hours ago, ping said:

Honestly, I'm not sure how necessary these are, either. Like, 18 uses should easily last Tiki for the rest of the game, and Divine Dragon + Barrier already puts her at 17 Res, so I don't know how much mileage I'm going to get out of the Mage Dragon form.

Mage stone is excellent in New Mystery as it lets both Tiki and Nagi counter the very dangerous Glower Sorcerers, which is basically Luna with actual Might... it'd be a shame if someone axed the ability to access it entirely. I do get why they removed Warp from Lunatic, because it really did crack Shadow Dragon's balance in half, but their solution to just remove it entirely is like eliminating taunts in online Smash Bros. You're throwing the baby out with that bat water. Warp is fun. Just limit it's range or something. The game is designed around you being able to use it. Like, you can't even get Aum, a mildly plot relevant item, because warp. Or at the very least give us a back entrance  to this secret shop behind the temple so we can have fun with other wyvern stones.

2 hours ago, ping said:

 

Or let Mr Turban be the main villain. We need more villains that are irredeemable assholes. With a tragic backstory, but still irredeemable assholes.

Is he just going to be a villain because he's an incel then? Or would he still randomly trip and find the Dark Sphere without Gharnef? Because no magical coercion would lead to a very radical alteration from Shadow Dragon. Granted he has no character in Shadow Dragon so there'd be no contradiction, but still it'd be weird to go back and play knowing early cavalier guy is such a huge douche. Also like 65% of Japan is in a sexless marriage who probably wouldn't be sold on the idea.

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

familiar countries being embroiled in disorder due to corruption that went unchecked because everyone was too busy worrying about the Problem Dragon.

*Something* *something* justice for Pyrathi, play my fan game.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oh my god. I've just figured it out. The entire plot of Book 2. Hardin, Anri, the dates, it all fits. Kaga was just writing about the Princess Diana controversies. He just gender flipped it so the males were the ones being cucked. He just plagerized the headlines (for anyone not around at the time, that Diana stuff was really big news, like, I seriously don't get why people cared so much, but they did).

Soooo, King Arthur? (But only after the French got their raunchy mitts on Camelot.)

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On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

THMpsw7.png: "Such a tragic tale... So that was Artemis's fate? All because of the curse of the Fire Emblem...?"

Not much of a curse. It's rather common sense that being coerced into a marriage is going to cause you grief.
Artemis and Nyna both bowed to the pressure of their fellow nobles to enter a loveless marriage. But in Nyna's case, the person she loved was both a villain and also believed to be dead. Unlike Anri, who was a beloved hero and very much alive. So in Artemis' case it's just pure classism.
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

This map is, honestly, a bit dumb. You have this big group of scary Ice Dragons looming ahead - yes, they're the least threatening type of dragon, but this many at once is still very dangerous, especially with their 1-2 range making it easier for them to gang up on somebody.

However, I believe the map can be trivialised very easily by retreating a few steps: Lure in and kill the nearest dragon, then let the thieves come towards you without moving forward. The Ice Dragons don't seem to chase after you, so you can split the enemy forces and engage them at your leasure playing like that.

I just don't see a way to handle this elegantly.

Any attempt of approaching this without pulling back and laming it out inevitably involves someone getting exposed to at least 3 ice dragons. They deal 20 damage each and ignore defense. HP cap is 52, so it's impossible for anyone to survive that. Not even Bantu can handle this due to his ice weakness.
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

JdiRyEk.png__HrAkAJj.png

New headcanon is that this entire plotline is the result of Gotoh losing his keys and accidentally locking himself into that tower.
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

nDWPpiw.png: "The only person that can restore the Binding Shield is you... The Shield, itself, has chosen you."

Uh, pretty sure it was Nyna. No need to pull out the old destiny card here.
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

nDWPpiw.png: "You still don't understand? The Emblem shield you're carrying is the stolen Binding Shield. To be honest, it was only recently that I noticed; its exterior had completely changed...

Dear Gotoh, you should see what the Falchion supposedly looks like in 2000 years. It's basically a glowy plastic toy.
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

After stealing it from the Fane of Raman, the thief removed its jewels and sold them off as treasures. The money was used to fund an army, which, along with three stolen weapons, was used to conquer the world.

That explains the missing gem in the Falchion at least. They even put in a hole where the gem used to be. Some powerful symbolism there. If only it was intended.
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

nDWPpiw.png: "Mmm... But please hurry up. The shield has already been broken for 600 years... It is almost time for the Earth Dragons, sealed underneath Macedon, to awaken from their slumber.

Now time is suddenly of the essence.

Yeah, definitely accidentally locked himself into that tower.
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

nDWPpiw.png: "That child is still developing. Without the Binding Shield she will begin to degenerate.

That's a convenient power for it to have. Not to mention it also raises the question if it's power could have been used to shield other dragons from degeneration as well.
I get we are trying to justify here why Tiki was put to sleep for so long. But this explanation does cause more problems than it solves.
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

jmaeyBF.png: "Uh... No. The bishop told me that I had to sleep again. But I don't want to... Because when I sleep I'm always alone. During my sleep, I dreamt many nightmares. There, I became a wild dragon, like those poor Fire Dragons and Ice Dragons. I attacked humans, and I killed them.

That's called PTSD. You got it from all the people you killed in the last few maps of Book 1.
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

jmaeyBF.png: "Really...? I won't need to see those scary dreams again!?"

Scary dreams? Like attacking humans and killing them? Ehhhhhh...
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

And before getting to (3 - seize), Yumina warps Catria over to grab a MageStone. I would've liked a FlyingStone in case the mobility would be useful in a future map, but I forgot that I'm not all that rich right now. I could've sold two Manuals otherwise, but eh. We're not going to use more than 1-2 transformations per chapter, unless they become drastically more lengthy (and dangerous the entire time), and we even still have that extra FireStone lying around.

That's a shame. 12 move Tiki is so much fun. If I had to chose, I would probably pick it over the Demon Stone, honestly. The Divine Dragon is already quite bulky, after all. But 12 move is much better than 7 move.

I was actually able to afford both of the stones on my first run. Despite also lacking the Silver Card and being permanently broke. Probably sold some stuff for it, though.
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

nDWPpiw.png: "Yes, his body was destroyed, but his vile spirit lives on in the Darksphere. He has also awakened the evil priests that served him, and they appear to be planning something terrible."

With all this talk about Resurrection, I'm surprised the Aum staff is not part of the plot, honestly.

It's not even explained what Gharnef wanted to use it on back in Book 1.
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

nDWPpiw.png: "Mmm... Once I find anything, I will contact you immediately. Good luck, Marth. Everything is in your hands. Please rescue dragons and humans from the path to ruin."

Not sure how this whole affair involves rescuing humans AND dragons from ruin.

But of course we talked a lot about how this entire segment feels like it belongs to an entirely different plot. Not exactly a new observation at this point.
 

On 2/1/2024 at 8:07 PM, ping said:

Oh, right, Xane. Not that his stats matter. But I think he might be better than in Book 1 because you can have characters with a bunch of Shard-assisted level-ups that he can transform into. Just look at that Jubelo. Or Catria, who hasn't even promoted yet. Speaking of, I really should start promoting more characters.

It's funny that he is still so weak in his base form. I mean, he does like wild flips and stuff that would imply that he is meant to be actually really capable in combat.

He was most certainly ahead of his time, considering in FE4 everyone is doing that.

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