FE9 Tier list v3

[-Cynthia-]

Lethe is already above Mist.

Staff rank- Again questioning relevance. Mist may heal 5-10 more once in a while for the two chapters it takes Tormod to get up to D, then he's at C in about another chapter. Staff rank raises so quickly in this game(and enemy status staves are fairly rare).

Tormod/Calill has the same Mov gap as Mist/Boyd. Jill/Mist also doesn't come into play when Jill is flying over mountains and such (which she's pretty much doing whenever there's terrain). Mist has Titania I guess.

So Soren and Ilyana can't have Arms scrolls for siege tomes, despite them being useful, because Calill might happen to be in play (though Calill can't heal), but Mist can have all the Arms Scrolls she wants for the SS?

Edited July 21, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Zkirsche]

You're completely right, I just remember the tier list from FEG as i was just on there. Ah well, I edited my post btw.

[Shadow Mir]

Staff rank- Again questioning relevance. Mist may heal 5-10 more once in a while for the two chapters it takes Tormod to get up to D, then he's at C in about another chapter. Staff rank raises so quickly in this game(and enemy status staves are fairly rare).

Tormod/Calill has the same Mov gap as Mist/Boyd. Jill/Mist also doesn't come into play when Jill is flying over mountains and such (which she's pretty much doing whenever there's terrain). Mist has Titania I guess.

So Soren and Ilyana can't have Arms scrolls for siege tomes, despite them being useful, because Calill might happen to be in play (though Calill can't heal), but Mist can have all the Arms Scrolls she wants for the SS?

I'd say that Tormod would likely take at least 4 chapters to get to C rank.

Tormod/Calill would have a move gap of 2 after Tormod promotes.

I'm not saying that Soren and Ilyana can't have Arms Scrolls. However, I find the value of using an Arms Scroll just to use a 5 use weapon questionable.

[Zkirsche]

15 uses of seige tomes isn't that much smaller than 25 uses from the SS, remember.

[Anouleth]

I'd say that Tormod would likely take at least 4 chapters to get to C rank.

Possibly longer. It depends on when he promotes - if he gains a little bit of WEXP then promotes, the WEXP disapoofs. On the other hand, the only area he lacks the rank for is Thunder. He gets the others just off his base rank.

Tormod/Calill would have a move gap of 2 after Tormod promotes.

I'm not saying that Soren and Ilyana can't have Arms Scrolls. However, I find the value of using an Arms Scroll just to use a 5 use weapon questionable.

And using two Arms Scrolls just to use a 25 use weapon is fine and dandy?

To be honest, Soren and Ilyana probably wouldn't even need an Arms Scroll. They'd have enough rank to use the weapon type they start with D in, plus another. Maybe even all three. 60 attacks in ~9 chapters.

[Shadow Mir]

Possibly longer. It depends on when he promotes - if he gains a little bit of WEXP then promotes, the WEXP disapoofs. On the other hand, the only area he lacks the rank for is Thunder. He gets the others just off his base rank.

To be honest, Soren and Ilyana probably wouldn't even need an Arms Scroll. They'd have enough rank to use the weapon type they start with D in, plus another. Maybe even all three. 60 attacks in ~9 chapters.

I was talking about Tormod getting C rank in staves.

Forges aside, I don't know what Soren and Ilyana will be using before they promote, so I cannot really make an accurate assessment. Namely, whether they'll just stick to their main magic type or not.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Ein Lanford

[General Spoon]

15 uses of seige tomes isn't that much smaller than 25 uses from the SS, remember.

To get those 15 uses of siege tomes will require Soren/Ilyana to have a C rank in all elements.

[-Cynthia-]

Tormod getting 14 heals in 3 chapters seems reasonable to me. A few chapters do take shorter than that I guess, so maybe 4, depending upon what chapters they are.

Edited July 21, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Zkirsche]

To get those 15 uses of siege tomes will require Soren/Ilyana to have a C rank in all elements.

which is what this whole discussion is about: it isn't that hard to get them to 'C' rank.

[Shadow Mir]

which is what this whole discussion is about: it isn't that hard to get them to 'C' rank.

But getting them to C rank all three elements? I'd personally say that's a pretty big stretch.

[General Spoon]

which is what this whole discussion is about: it isn't that hard to get them to 'C' rank.

I'm sorry. I thought that the discussion was about all the shit Mist provides getting one of them to C rank in an element to use that siege tome, not bum rushing them to C rank in all elements.

[-Cynthia-]

There's no real reason why they can't use Arms Scrolls to get to C, even if they can't grind it on their own. Unless you're going with the Int counterargument of "Calill exists" except we're not necessarily fielding her, we're fielding Soren/Ilyana who can also use Physic.

And if you're going to say that they can't use Arms Scrolls because Mist used them all for the SS, I'm calling double standard.

[Florete]

And if you're going to say that they can't use Arms Scrolls because Mist used them all for the SS, I'm calling double standard.

That's not necessarily a double standard, just allocation of resources. Has anyone actually checked to see what Soren/Ilyana can do with long range tomes? They weigh a ton so I doubt you're getting doubles, and therefore likely not getting kills unless to finish something off. It's also 15 uses vs 25, and with the 25 I get to have my healer fight back instead of an extra backseat potshotter. I'd much prefer healer fighting back.

[Shadow Mir]

There's no real reason why they can't use Arms Scrolls to get to C, even if they can't grind it on their own. Unless you're going with the Int counterargument of "Calill exists" except we're not necessarily fielding her, we're fielding Soren/Ilyana who can also use Physic.

And if you're going to say that they can't use Arms Scrolls because Mist used them all for the SS, I'm calling double standard.

With the fact that Soren and Ilyana aren't doubling because siege tomes are pretty heavy, I still stand by my point that an Arms Scroll on a mage is of questionable value. Also, at best, you're only getting 15 uses.

[-Cynthia-]

That's not necessarily a double standard, just allocation of resources. Has anyone actually checked to see what Soren/Ilyana can do with long range tomes? They weigh a ton so I doubt you're getting doubles, and therefore likely not getting kills unless to finish something off. It's also 15 uses vs 25, and with the 25 I get to have my healer fight back instead of an extra backseat potshotter. I'd much prefer healer fighting back.

The long range tomes also allow us to do different types of elemental damage, useful for killing laguz or dragons. You alos get longer rane overall than Mist does, allowing you to ignore terrain, very useful for maps like C25. It's also easier to get to C rank than B rank for obvious reasons.

Mist isn't always in play either. The point is that denying everyone else Arms Scrolls under the argument that Mist needs them to have any sort of offense is silly.

Siege tomes allow us to hit targets that can't be hit otherwise (or perhaps only by fliers), Mist can only target everything Paladins can. As for Wt, they're heavy but enemies are pretty slow, and only Soren's Str is really bad.

Edited July 21, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Shadow Mir]

The long range tomes also allow us to do different types of elemental damage, useful for killing laguz or dragons. You alos get longer rane overall than Mist does, allowing you to ignore terrain, very useful for maps like C25. It's also easier to get to C rank than B rank for obvious reasons.

Mist isn't always in play either. The point is that denying everyone else Arms Scrolls under the argument that Mist needs them to have any sort of offense is silly.

Laguz aren't even all that common until near the end of the game, IIRC...

EDIT: I highly doubt enemies are THAT slow... Also, you said it yourself; Soren's Strength is bad. And Ilyana's not exactly fast to begin with...

Edited July 21, 2010 by Ein Lanford

[Dark Sage]

It also showcases just how dependent Mist is on such items. Outside of forges and Sonic Sword, Mist can't really fight well, and she requires many resources to get good. It's a nice payoff, which is why she's in upper mid as opposed to Rolf, but you have to admit that all that just to make Mist viable in combat is kind of silly. Especially since Ilyana/Soren not only can fight ok right off the bat, they also contribute more early on and they can target weaknesses, something that Mist without Sonic Sword can't do.

And how many Arm Scrolls do you have by Chapter 20 anyway? It's been awhile since I played.

[Florete]

Mist isn't always in play either. The point is that denying everyone else Arms Scrolls under the argument that Mist needs them to have any sort of offense is silly.

Oh, so this isn't actually an argument against Mist using the Arms Scrolls but rather an argument for the Sages? Okay.

Siege tomes allow us to hit targets that can't be hit otherwise (or perhaps only by fliers), Mist can only target everything Paladins can. As for Wt, they're heavy but enemies are pretty slow, and only Soren's Str is really bad.

1. How often do these enemies show up?

2. How often will it actually help to use long range tomes against them as opposed to someone like Marcia, Jill, or Tanith?

3. Soren's Str is bad, Ilyana is already slow. I haven't looked it up myself (and I shouldn't have to) but I doubt these two are doubling.

[Shadow Mir]

It also showcases just how dependent Mist is on such items. Outside of forges and Sonic Sword, Mist can't really fight well, and she requires many resources to get good. It's a nice payoff, which is why she's in upper mid as opposed to Rolf, but you have to admit that all that just to make Mist viable in combat is kind of silly. Especially since Ilyana/Soren not only can fight ok right off the bat, they also contribute more early on and they can target weaknesses, something that Mist without Sonic Sword can't do.

And how many Arm Scrolls do you have by Chapter 20 anyway? It's been awhile since I played.

The fact that Soren and Ilyana can target weaknesses is irrelevant early on, since you don't see much in the way of enemies with weaknesses to take advantage of.

[Dark Sage]

They still have nice damage due to hitting resistance.

[-Cynthia-]

This game has a lot of terrain. I'm too lazy to bring it up right now, but mountains/trees, you can hit Ena over the wall in C21 for example which fliers can't do etc.

You can also shoot over enemies, which fliers can't do. Useful for Defeat Boss, or a Seize map you can kill the boss/surrounding units, and use a flier to ferry Ike up there instead. Either way, mimicing flying utility isn't too shabby, especially when you hit Res.

WRT doubling, Blizzard is 10 Wt, Meteor 11, Bolting 13.

20/6 Ilyana has 8 Str, 17 AS, so that drops her down to 15/14/12 AS. On say C20, 15 AS doubles 27/39 enemies, 14 doubles 21/39. Only real problem is with Bolting, and even that doubles some. Soren has about the same numbers, since he's weaker but faster.

[Shadow Mir]

They still have nice damage due to hitting resistance.

I'll give you that, but from what I've seen, Tellius enemies actually have decent resistance.

[Dark Sage]

Also Mist has crappy move pre-promotion, so she finds it hard to heal because she needs to stay back to avoid dying, let alone not being able to reach the others.

And by decent resistance I guess you mean 2 or 3 res on an enemy?

Edited July 21, 2010 by Dark Sage

[Shadow Mir]

Also Mist has crappy move pre-promotion, so she finds it hard to heal because she needs to stay back to avoid dying, let alone not being able to reach the others.

And by decent resistance I guess you mean 2 or 3 res on an enemy?

It's not like the mages have it much better.

Come now, enemy Resistance isn't THAT low. I mean seeing friggin' Armor Knights with 5 Resistance when you're only one-third of the way through the game.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Ein Lanford

[-Cynthia-]

Average res gap varies on enemies, but it's usually 4-5, which isn't bad. Higher for laguz/generals/wyvern knights.

Mist has crappy move pre-promotion, but you're not going to have a better one until Tormod shows up, and Mist is probably promoted by then.