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25 minutes ago, Excellen Browning said:

It's also worth remembering that Nixon accomplished a list of good things during his presidency. He set up the EPA and had environmental protection laws passed, he expanded social security, enforced desegregation of schools and set up the first affirmative action programme, and he signed arms control treaties with the USSR.

These are all fair points (although I think you're attributing things done by other people during his presidency to a man trying desperately to overcome his unpopular policies), but you'd be hard pressed to find any mention of them in the real-life Nixon library. It's more a space about humanizing the guy, if the library can be said of having any "agenda". Like most presidential biographies that children end up using for school projects. Here's the what, when, and where of what happened, but seldom the hows or whys because we don't have time to go over every valid interpretation. It's not a space for students of political science or history (although we do go to caption some juicy memes).

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Nixon was much less corrupt and much better than Fuhrer Trump.  Trump and Buchanan are neck and neck for worst president in history.  I hope Donald drags this crap out and tears the GOP party apart.  Should also help Democrats have better chance in the run off races in January.  

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11 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I hope Donald drags this crap out and tears the GOP party apart.  Should also help Democrats have better chance in the run off races in January.  

Honestly the way things are looking right now I think you're on the right track.

Democratic members and groups are building up their plan for Georgia already, major figures are throwing themselves at it and millions are already raised.

Trump meanwhile likely won't bother going near Georgia because his own priority's proving he was robbed nationally and I could see him taking some of the money off the Republican coffers to do so, indirectly by asking people to pay for him because paying his own way is out of character for him and possibly directly too.

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7 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Democratic members and groups are building up their plan for Georgia already, major figures are throwing themselves at it and millions are already raised.

Keep in mind that money didn't do them much good this election, otherwise they would've swept the Senate already, and the House and the states, the opposite happened. Democrats need to work on their ground game, this election proves money doesn't solve everything.

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4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Keep in mind that money didn't do them much good this election, otherwise they would've swept the Senate already, and the House and the states, the opposite happened. Democrats need to work on their ground game, this election proves money doesn't solve everything.

True, if it was merely money that'd be one thing, I suspect they've a better idea on how to spend it after the election that just happened and hopefully they'll take that into account.

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27 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Trump and his supporters are aware that he can run again, right?

Most likely.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-will-run-again-if-loses-election-biden-mick-mulvaney-2020-11?r=MX&IR=T

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31 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Trump and his supporters are aware that he can run again, right?

If we keep quiet about it, I hope they will forget about that eventually.

Edited by XRay

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I think they need a new Trump and I’m really curious which conservative is going to try to emulate him. My money is on Cruz but literally no one actually likes him so...

Maybe Cotton?

Edited by Crysta

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So in other news, Puerto Rico managed to vote to become a state again. Though this referendum seems more solid than the others at a glance. No boycott or ambiguous three way question splits. Still, will they get it? I think I heard once there's some kind of hard cap to senators or house seats or something that makes the USA very reluctant to add any more states as it'll mean taking representation away from an existing state.

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2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

So in other news, Puerto Rico managed to vote to become a state again. Though this referendum seems more solid than the others at a glance. No boycott or ambiguous three way question splits. Still, will they get it? I think I heard once there's some kind of hard cap to senators or house seats or something that makes the USA very reluctant to add any more states as it'll mean taking representation away from an existing state.

438 is the limit on the number of Representatives, correct. No idea why that number. Senators have no cap however, every state gets two.

Republicans probably wouldn't approve of Puerto Rican statehood, more Latinos = potentially more Democrats. However, Puerto Rico is, from what little I've read, not guaranteed to be solid blue. Puerto Rico has its own not-Democrat & Republican political parties, and currently it's the conservative one that has control of the territory. Thus, Puerto Rico could end up being added to the list of swing states to panic over every election, and yet more potential right-wing demagogue enablers in Congress.

Adding Washington D.C. as a state, it has more population than Wyoming, wouldn't effect presidential elections because it already has EC votes IIRC. But, it would add two robin's egg blue Senators, and would help make the Senate a little less dominated by a minority of the country's population. I mention DC, because it getting statehood is sometimes spoken of in the same breath as Puerto Rican statehood, when the two are very different stories.

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This wouldn't be the first time a referendum proved that voters were in favor of being a state. It's just that previous attempts this decade were always called out for not having enough voter participation, unfair in its presentation of choice, or just unclear. Democrats have been salivating at the prospect of turning Puerto Rico into a state because it would be a largely sized blue state that can help win presidential elections and House control. But I think that approach is a bit perverse on our part. What does Puerto Rico really gain by becoming a state? And why would they want to be a part of the Union after we declined to provide aid after that hurricane a few years back? I'm sure they know it's the GOP, but the GOP is almost half of us.

Anyway, the timing of this referendum is no accident. Everybody was expecting Democrats to retake the Senate, and if they don't secure a 50/50 tie, I can't imagine any republicans changing their vote when Congress drafts the bill.

Also I'm of the opinion that D.C should become a state before Puerto Rico. Support among its residents is almost universal according to their own referendums. Maybe we can add both at once, and save on the construction of new flags?

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puerto rico has a Republican governor and resident commissioner

puerto rico deserves to be represented in the us government -- with some actual weight -- and not remain just a sovereign state for eternity because the republicans are afraid of democracy 

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9 minutes ago, Crysta said:

puerto rico has a Republican governor and resident commissioner

puerto rico deserves to be represented in the us government -- with some actual weight -- and not remain just a sovereign state for eternity because the republicans are afraid of democracy 

That's exactly it, Republicans don't believe in democracy it doesn't matter at all to them.  You can see with the Trump thing now, some have spoken out, but very few modern GOP.  Some like Lindsey and Cruz completely back Trump.

Fucking tyranny of the minority.  It's almost impossible and we always discuss it but the Electoral College should be abolished.  Gore would have been way better than Bush, and Hillary was a zillion times better than Trump.  We only got these sucky idiots cause of EC.  It also makes it so hard to take the Senate and allow Bitch Mcconnell to block everything and stay in power.  

So you have the majority of people pissed off that their rights and views are being trampled on so a minority of people can be happy and laugh at the majority.  

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i'd be okay with it if they wanna leave the union instead, tbh, but lol at that happening

Edited by Crysta

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2 hours ago, Crysta said:

puerto rico has a Republican governor and resident commissioner

puerto rico deserves to be represented in the us government -- with some actual weight -- and not remain just a sovereign state for eternity because the republicans are afraid of democracy 

You think Puerto Rico's situation is bad, American Samoans aren't legally US citizens. Though that being said I've heard some Puerto Ricans themselves say they want to remain in their current quasi situation as there'll be higher taxes if they become a state. If Puerto Rico does become a state it'll be the first state of the US that isn't predominantly English speaking (well at least now adays, I imagine the territories taken from the French and Spanish in the eighteenth century were originally non English speaking, though a quick glance at the Wikipedia article for New Mexico says it took 60 years to become a state because it had a majority "alien" population) which would lead to some interesting legal scenarios. Since English is not the official language of the USA, would Puerto Rico be able to make their own Spanish translation of the constitution? And if in the future some kind of discrepancy arises via translation, could there be something that is constitutional in Puerto Rico but not the rest of the county?  It might sound crazy but a lot of countries do have to specify which languages in their legal system and constitutions take precedence to stop stuff like this happening.

Edited by Jotari
Whoops. Missed a negative that is pretty crucial.

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Puerto Ricans have been citizens of the United States since 1917. So are the citizens of Guam. So are the citizens of American Samoa.

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I fully believe Trump and most of his kin will be convicted once Trump's out of the White House. Lawyers are frothing at the mouth to get a piece of him, and Trump can't be shielded by a republican senate when he's a regular civilian again.

It'll be tough to run for president again from federal prison.

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6 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I fully believe Trump and most of his kin will be convicted once Trump's out of the White House. Lawyers are frothing at the mouth to get a piece of him, and Trump can't be shielded by a republican senate when he's a regular civilian again.

It'll be tough to run for president again from federal prison.

This needs to be done. That entire branch of the Trump family needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law and made an example of to show that their actions were, and still are intolerable. It may not persuade his supporters, but it will persuade those who would follow in his footsteps to think thrice.

In fact, the upcoming administration should create a set of laws based on Trump’s horrendous actions and name them after him, so history can better remember the kind of man that necessitated these laws. There should also be a reworking of presidential qualifications to include making certain that folks like Trump can never run again. In no particular order, off the top of my head, impeachment means no running again (as well as perhaps a lessening of power on their part), outstanding charges of fraud/sexual assault/the like should bar you from even throwing your hat into the ring and be automatic grounds for disqualification, etc.

It simply needs to be said and enforced: the president and those he employs are not above the law.

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4 hours ago, Crysta said:

Puerto Ricans have been citizens of the United States since 1917. So are the citizens of Guam. So are the citizens of American Samoa.

Puerto Rica and Guam (and the US Virgin Isles) yes, American Samoa, no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuaua_v._United_States

They are officially designated American Nationals, but not Citizens. They have the right to travel and work in the US though so getting Citizenship isn't too hard for them. Still bloody weird though. In my research it's basically the only real part of the world where people are designated Nationals non Citizens. There's some obscure scenarios with British Nationals and British Subjects, but it's mostly to do with now defunct British Empire stuff that ended when Hong Kong was returned. So to be a British National or Subject Non Citizen you need to be born to British Nationals non Citizens in a part of the world that would otherwise make you stateless. Some south American countries also render people under the age of adulthood as Nationals non Citizens, but they gain Citizenship upon reaching 18 (or some other year thereabouts) so it's not really the same case.

Edited by Jotari

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3 hours ago, Dai said:

This needs to be done. That entire branch of the Trump family needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law and made an example of to show that their actions were, and still are intolerable. It may not persuade his supporters, but it will persuade those who would follow in his footsteps to think thrice.

In fact, the upcoming administration should create a set of laws based on Trump’s horrendous actions and name them after him, so history can better remember the kind of man that necessitated these laws. There should also be a reworking of presidential qualifications to include making certain that folks like Trump can never run again. In no particular order, off the top of my head, impeachment means no running again (as well as perhaps a lessening of power on their part), outstanding charges of fraud/sexual assault/the like should bar you from even throwing your hat into the ring and be automatic grounds for disqualification, etc.

It simply needs to be said and enforced: the president and those he employs are not above the law.

I think this is a rather big dilema. Things can go horribly wrong whether Trump is or isn't prosecuted. 

Trump ending up in jail will no doubt radicalize his followers. They will never accept Trump's prosecution as legitimate. They will see it as ''the deep state'' locking up their great champion for daring to oppose them. This can get incredibly dangerous with armed militias possibly even trying to get revenge for Trump. The resentment will never go away which will make a second Trump inevitable. 

On the other hand if Trump is not prosecuted then it might radicalize demagogue politicians. Trump breaking every rule in the book and shamelessly enriching himself without any negative consequence will convince any malicious person that the presidency is the land of milk and honey. They will be shown they can abuse the presidency for their own wealth as much as they can without it costing them anything. The temptation of abusing the presidency will never go away which will make a second Trump inevitable. 

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4 hours ago, Slumber said:

It'll be tough to run for president again from federal prison.

Historical factoid says that isn't impossible! Eugene V. Debs, a Socialist, ran for president in 1920 despite serving a 10 year prison sentence in Atlanta at the time.

 

32 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Trump ending up in jail will no doubt radicalize his followers. They will never accept Trump's prosecution as legitimate. They will see it as ''the deep state'' locking up their great champion for daring to oppose them. This can get incredibly dangerous with armed militias possibly even trying to get revenge for Trump. The resentment will never go away which will make a second Trump inevitable. 

Any chance violent right-wing protests could backfire though? Some support was lost for the BLM movement when the riots that almost inevitably accompany peaceful protests in general occurred. Didn't Bush II get his second term due to Americans being in fear? -Albeit the key difference is that Bush II's beneficial fear was induced by a foreign threat, not a domestic one.

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think this is a rather big dilema. Things can go horribly wrong whether Trump is or isn't prosecuted. 

Trump ending up in jail will no doubt radicalize his followers. They will never accept Trump's prosecution as legitimate. They will see it as ''the deep state'' locking up their great champion for daring to oppose them. This can get incredibly dangerous with armed militias possibly even trying to get revenge for Trump. The resentment will never go away which will make a second Trump inevitable. 

On the other hand if Trump is not prosecuted then it might radicalize demagogue politicians. Trump breaking every rule in the book and shamelessly enriching himself without any negative consequence will convince any malicious person that the presidency is the land of milk and honey. They will be shown they can abuse the presidency for their own wealth as much as they can without it costing them anything. The temptation of abusing the presidency will never go away which will make a second Trump inevitable. 

It needs to be done. As it is, unlike his senate trial, you can be sure that it will be less likely to deny evidence of wrongdoing and witnesses will be permitted.

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