Ice Dragon Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Icelerate said: How is being a tier 4 skill equivalent with less chance of getting chilled and without the drawback of 8 HP drain underwhelming? Because Fury 4 is the most underwhelming of the tier 4 skills, and avoiding Chill skills is balanced out by being more susceptible to Ploy, Sabotage, and AoE Special skills. And that's before considering the fact that making her better, but still not competitive, on the phase that she's worse at doesn't solve her problems. She'll still be uncompetitive on player phase and barely holding ground to newcomers on enemy phase. Removing the phase and positioning restrictions on Laws of Sacae is basically comparable to making Urvan's refine be Sturdy Impact. Yeah, it's equivalent to a tier 4 skill, but it's an effect that doesn't help the unit keep up with its competitors. And before anyone mentions that Lyn has Desperation as a default skill, I'll also say that Larchel has an AoE Special as a default skill with a weapon effect that activates when the opponent is at full health (and they were released only 3 months apart). Someone clearly did not understand how dual phase units work when they made her. 1 hour ago, Hilda said: Its not only Legendary skills that need a boost but also Brave heroes or some heroes with released personal skills (Arvis, Arden) that need their exclusiv skill enhanced. I personally think the Legendary/Mythic unique skills and Brave unique skills are the only ones that need to be kept up-to-date. The other unique skills were added specifically for flavor purposes and aren't really intended to make the unit above and beyond better than their competition like Legendary/Mythic Heroes and Brave Heroes, who are intended to be superior. Edited October 3, 2019 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelerate Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: Because Fury 4 is the most underwhelming of the tier 4 skills, and avoiding Chill skills is balanced out by being more susceptible to Ploy, Sabotage, and AoE Special skills. And that's before considering the fact that making her better, but still not competitive, on the phase that she's worse at doesn't solve her problems. She'll still be uncompetitive on player phase and barely holding ground to newcomers on enemy phase. Removing the phase and positioning restrictions on Laws of Sacae is basically comparable to making Urvan's refine be Sturdy Impact. Yeah, it's equivalent to a tier 4 skill, but it's an effect that doesn't help the unit keep up with its competitors. True, you can also add other characters that have stat checks like Ylgr and Kagero before taking into consideration in combat buffs. Even still, I think she still won't be competitive because of her stat spread and prf weapon. What about give her a prf close counter much like Brave Hector's prf DC? But instead of two stats, she gets four stats instead but with positioning requirement to compensate for more stats. So her current skill but with conditional close counter built in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Icelerate said: What about give her a prf close counter much like Brave Hector's prf DC? But instead of two stats, she gets four stats instead but with positioning requirement to compensate for more stats. So her current skill but with conditional close counter built in? Why would you want Close Counter on a unit with 21 base Def and 36 base HP? That's less physical bulk than every single axe unit in the game except Performing Arts Azura (who has 35 base HP and 20 base Def). EDIT: An exercise I just did to bring the skill up to par with recent skills: Start with Light and Dark, which is the most similar skill: −2 to enemy stats, Dull Close 3, Dull Ranged 3, negate adaptive damage Add a phase restriction and increase stats to compensate: +4 to own stats, Dull Close 3, Dull Ranged 3, negate adaptive damage, enemy phase only Add a positioning restriction and increase stats to compensate: +6 to own stats, Dull Close 3, Dull Ranged 3, negate adaptive damage, enemy phase only, requires 2 allies within 2 squares Lyn doesn't need to negate adaptive damage, so replace that with something else: +6 to own stats, Dull Close 3, Dull Ranged 3, enemy phase only, requires 2 allies within 2 squares, plus some additional effect Maybe neutralize her own penalties (with the same phase and positioning restrictions)? That's where par for unique skills is right now. EDIT 2: An additional exercise just starting with existing tier 4 skills: Start with Distant Def 4, which is the most similar skill that isn't as underwhelming as Fury 4: +8 to own Def/Res, Dull Ranged 3, enemy phase only, ranged opponents only Divide stats: +4 to own stats, Dull Ranged 3, enemy phase only, ranged opponents only Change the ranged opponents restriction to a positioning restriction: +4 to own stats, Dull Ranged 3, enemy phase only, requires 2 allies within 2 squares So this is the minimum to simply be par for tier 4. (EDIT 3: As an added note, Distant Def 4 is actually under-tuned compared to the Impact skills. If we want to match the Impact skills, Distant Def 4 should have +10 to Def/Res, which would put this hypothetical Laws of Sacae at +4 Atk/Spd and +5 Def/Res when dividing stats in the least favorable way.) (EDIT 4: Light and Dark is over-tuned as fuck.) Edited October 3, 2019 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 I just thought of something regarding Xane, he was talked about a while ago. League of Legends has a new game called Teamfight Tactics, with a new item called Neeko's help. It's a chameleon that changes into the unit you drag it on. What if Xane could be a regular Sword infantry unit that has a personal skill so that he at least could be built as a standalone unit, however, he could also be used to merge into other units. So let's say you have a 5* +9 L!julia, but not a the 11th copy to +10 her. You could use your +0 Xane to add a final merge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diovani Bressan Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Vicious Sal said: I just thought of something regarding Xane, he was talked about a while ago. League of Legends has a new game called Teamfight Tactics, with a new item called Neeko's help. It's a chameleon that changes into the unit you drag it on. What if Xane could be a regular Sword infantry unit that has a personal skill so that he at least could be built as a standalone unit, however, he could also be used to merge into other units. So let's say you have a 5* +9 L!julia, but not a the 11th copy to +10 her. You could use your +0 Xane to add a final merge. So you are saying that Xane would be used as a wild card, that can be used to give any other hero a merge? Poor Xane... But I would use him as a merge. Xane's ability is to change his appearance and copy allies abilities, right? (I never used Xane, so I don't know much of him) So I can see him in FEH with an ability similar to OG Eirika's refined sword, that copies allies visible buffs and transform into combat buffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said: Xane's ability is to change his appearance and copy allies abilities, right? (I never used Xane, so I don't know much of him) So I can see him in FEH with an ability similar to OG Eirika's refined sword, that copies allies visible buffs and transform into combat buffs. He copies everything, barring Phina's dancing, Marth's seizing and visiting, and any use of personal weapons. Or any passive supports bonuses or obviously ability to Talk with other characters on the map that the original character could have done. And maybe no lockpicking either. Appearance is included of course externally at least, lets not go there. FE3 (and I guess 1) didn't let him copy Max HP, but 11&12 do, though he'll start transformed with however much HP he had beforehand, so heal him up first if copied someone with a lot of it, because his untransformed base HP is rather low. Edited October 3, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelerate Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 On 10/2/2019 at 10:07 PM, Ice Dragon said: Why would you want Close Counter on a unit with 21 base Def and 36 base HP? That's less physical bulk than every single axe unit in the game except Performing Arts Azura (who has 35 base HP and 20 base Def). Akariss has used Eir with CC despite having even less defense quite effectively in AR. Okay I have another idea, keep the base effect with its conditions but give it both dull range and guard. This makes it competitive with the tier 4 stance skills as well as DD4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 46 minutes ago, Icelerate said: Akariss has used Eir with CC despite having even less defense quite effectively in AR. I don't see other people clamoring to give their Eirs Close Counter after learning about this. This doesn't tell me why Akariss runs this build. This doesn't tell me what kinds of feats he was able to perform with this build. This doesn't tell me what the limitations of what feats he can perform with this build are. This doesn't tell me what kind of support is necessary to make this kind of build work. I have zero context about why Eir with Close Counter is a desirable build and how that would translate to making Laws of Sacae and Lyn more desirable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Sal Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: I don't see other people clamoring to give their Eirs Close Counter after learning about this. This doesn't tell me why Akariss runs this build. This doesn't tell me what kinds of feats he was able to perform with this build. This doesn't tell me what the limitations of what feats he can perform with this build are. This doesn't tell me what kind of support is necessary to make this kind of build work. I have zero context about why Eir with Close Counter is a desirable build and how that would translate to making Laws of Sacae and Lyn more desirable It works because he stacks it with 3 or 4 ward flier buffs. So that is 12/16 extra def and res. So it makes the original point he had moot. Since it isn’t on a low def unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said: It works because he stacks it with 3 or 4 ward flier buffs. So that is 12/16 extra def and res. So it makes the original point he had moot. Since it isn’t on a low def unit. ... I'm surprised I actually completely forgot Ward Fliers existed while I was posting that. Which also just brings up the point that infantry have the least access to defensive buffs in the game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Oi, apparently my login bonuses didn't come through when the game refreshed today for me. Anyone else having a similar issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoaFerox Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, Sunwoo said: Oi, apparently my login bonuses didn't come through when the game refreshed today for me. Anyone else having a similar issue? Nope, I just got mine. Have you tried all the usual quitting and restarting the app etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, BoaFerox said: Nope, I just got mine. Have you tried all the usual quitting and restarting the app etc.? Okay, that actually worked. I have no idea what happened today, usually it doesn't give me any issues even when it refreshes right when I'm on the home screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Just now, Sunwoo said: Okay, that actually worked. I have no idea what happened today, usually it doesn't give me any issues even when it refreshes right when I'm on the home screen. It happened to me so regularly when I went to the home screen on the hour, or a minute before the hour. I've conditioned myself now to never check the home screen until the clock ticks over to a minute past and it hasn't happened since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Humanoid said: It happened to me so regularly when I went to the home screen on the hour, or a minute before the hour. I've conditioned myself now to never check the home screen until the clock ticks over to a minute past and it hasn't happened since. Noted. That's really weird, this is the first time I've had this issue. Well, I'd already sent an inquiry about it so I just sent a follow-up saying that the problem was resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usana Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Was leveling up the Picnic Genny I got on the mythic banner and was using Rinea. Eventually realized the two of them are hummers just humming along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Got 3,705 in the Arena, which I'm pretty sure is my new high score. Barely within the range to stay in Tier 20 for now, and I'm skeptical that it'll still be the case tomorrow. What sorts of scores is it taking to move up to Tier 21 these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLNarshen Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Othin said: Got 3,705 in the Arena, which I'm pretty sure is my new high score. Barely within the range to stay in Tier 20 for now, and I'm skeptical that it'll still be the case tomorrow. What sorts of scores is it taking to move up to Tier 21 these days? Depends on the type of bonus units that are available, but around 3,745 or so I think is a fair estimate for reaching Tier 21, maybe a little more to be safe. For reference I'm currently ranked 1,014/2,676 for promotion with a 3,756 score. Edited October 6, 2019 by DLNarshen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 32 minutes ago, DLNarshen said: Depends on the type of bonus units that are available, but around 3,745 or so I think is a fair estimate for reaching Tier 21, maybe a little more to be safe. For reference I'm currently ranked 1,014/2,676 for promotion with a 3,756 score. That is quite high. Is 3,760 the maximum possible score? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLNarshen Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Othin said: That is quite high. Is 3,760 the maximum possible score? I can't say what the maximum is, but I know that those in the higher reaches of tier 21 score well over 3,800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, DLNarshen said: I can't say what the maximum is, but I know that those in the higher reaches of tier 21 score well over 3,800. Interesting. I remember hearing something some time ago about base scores capping at 740, which would make overall scores cap at 752, but I guess if that was ever true, it's changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humanoid Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 8 hours ago, Othin said: Got 3,705 in the Arena, which I'm pretty sure is my new high score. Barely within the range to stay in Tier 20 for now, and I'm skeptical that it'll still be the case tomorrow. What sorts of scores is it taking to move up to Tier 21 these days? I got my high score of 3725 a couple of weeks ago (powered by my Palla+10 being a bonus unit). Result: still got demoted to T19. The guy compiling the thresholds every week has been super busy lately so there hasn't been any numbers more recent than early September, however the scores from then should still be broadly indicative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 8 hours ago, Othin said: Interesting. I remember hearing something some time ago about base scores capping at 740, which would make overall scores cap at 752, but I guess if that was ever true, it's changed. The minimum score I snipe for every week is 752 before accounting for bonus kills, and I occasionally get matched against teams with a score of 760 or higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diovani Bressan Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 @Othin I believe 3,705 is a pretty good score for a player who wants to reach Tier 21. It's not a guaranteed score/rank since a lot of players redo Arena and AA runs on Mondays, but I believe you have nothing to worry with. Out of curiosity, what is your Arena Team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 22 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said: @Othin I believe 3,705 is a pretty good score for a player who wants to reach Tier 21. It's not a guaranteed score/rank since a lot of players redo Arena and AA runs on Mondays, but I believe you have nothing to worry with. Out of curiosity, what is your Arena Team? My current team is +10 Black Knight, +9 Naesala, +6 Fae, and Astram as the bonus. Astram has proved pretty effective at getting kills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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