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16 minutes ago, Troykv said:

I would love to see your Tier List...

Or at least Which units you consider the worst and the best in Offense 

 

Honestly i haven't used a lot of units that people consider good since i don't have them. I don't even have a single 5* Brave specialist lol

Anyway, excluding the 3 locked god tier units the best i've played with is basically Horse Mages, and DC Horse, with greens at a special place. The worst is Armors and Healers

 

Armor and Healer can't use broken skill Reposition, and i justified their placement based on that

 

Edited by JSND

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2 minutes ago, JSND said:

The worst is Armors

Probably the worst on Arena Defense if they aren't running with support, but otherwise no.

They still have ridiculously high stat totals that can get buffed even further with multiple stacks of Goad / Ward which will constantly apply since their low Mov makes them hard to separate.

Also, DC and QR. Though truthfully none of them are particularly threatening out of the box besides Hector.

Edited by MrSmokestack

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1 minute ago, MrSmokestack said:

Probably the worst on Arena Defense if they aren't running with support, but otherwise no.

They still have ridiculously high stat totals that can get buffed even further with multiple stacks of Goad / Ward which will constantly apply since their low Mov makes them hard to separate.

Also, DC and Quick Riposte. Though truthfully none of them are particularly threatening out of the box besides Hector.

 

That was an offensive tiers though(Arena Offense and Arena Defense is so wildly different they shouldn't be a single tier)

For offensive usage, their 1 Mov just make them harder to use and consequently make the team harder to use. I don't buy into the idea that Armors requires no support to perform because in my opinion, their requirement of support is significantly higher than any other class.

BST totals is honestly why i kinda want to make a Tier entirely based around BST brackets since i find a lot of the high BST units had their BST in the not so ideal place anyway

Admitably i only used like 3 Armors in this game, and all of them have been doing their job nicely(Hector is roughly going to be Tier 3 which isn't bad)

 

QR is the greatest thing in this game, so i won't say anything about that

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8 hours ago, phineas81707 said:

And it took me forever to get the 'uo or ou' spelling right.

If you treated the "ð" as a "dh" instead of as an "o", you'd never have trouble with it.

It's really hard to screw up "raudhr" ("rao-ther") as "radhur".

 

5 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

What I'm trying to get at with Lucina is that, even after running TA3, there are reds that can cripple Nowi. Most blues aren't forced to run TA3 just to beat their advantage color---but Nowi has to, because otherwise Falchions destroy her. This limits Nowi's viable builds, and limits her role on a team. Her A-slot is forced to TA3, which pretty much forces her B-slot to QR (because, with her low base speed and A-slot taken, she has no way to actually do things without QR doubles).

Triangle Adept Nowi on an offense team has zero trouble dealing with Lucina. Being locked to a small number of builds also isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Furthermore, you're severely understating what Triangle Adept does and are focusing on only one aspect of it. Falchions are a lot less common now that player rosters are filling up, and Triangle Adept does two other things that you are ignoring:

  1. Nowi takes virtually zero damage from anything red that isn't named Raudhrblade (which is the rarest of the Litrblade tomes). This means Quick Riposte remains unbroken longer and she can typically hold up even against a mono-red team. Without Triangle Adept, most tanks get worn down after their second or third round of combat.
  2. Nowi can one-hit kill most red units outright by virtue of targeting Res, meaning she isn't useless on player phase like other slow counter killers and often doesn't need Quick Riposte against red opponents.

Nowi's bulk is high enough to hold up against a single same-color opponent before losing Quick Riposte, which is nothing out of the ordinary compared to other tanks. Unlike most blue units, however, Nowi has access to a +6/6 buff in Fortify Dragons on top of trainee infantry stat caps, giving her impressive mixed bulk. Her high HP pool means that after she has run out of targets, she can be targeted with or use Reciprocal Aid to heal another unit. High Atk that targets Res means she is also less dependent on a special skill to deal damage and can afford to use an "ineffective" special like Aether for more points without affecting her combat potential.

I feel like I have to say this every single time you mention Nowi.

 

If Thany comes as a 16-Atk weapon that is effective against cavalry (or if the CYL characters come with their early-game Prf anti-cavalry anti-armor weapons with their anti-cavalry effect at the minimum still intact), I will laugh.

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2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

If Thany comes as a 16-Atk weapon that is effective against cavalry (or if the CYL characters come with their early-game Prf anti-cavalry anti-armor weapons with their anti-cavalry effect at the minimum still intact), I will laugh.

tagged

 

Also..... whats a Thany, because the only Thany i know is the one called Shanna

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4 minutes ago, JSND said:

Also..... whats a Thany, because the only Thany i know is the one called Shanna

Thani's internal name is "THANY". I sometimes forget to correct myself.

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I run Triangle Adept on all of my mages and Dragons nowadays. If you know how the AI will act and can manipulate it, I feel it's the best skill to have. B!Caeda (only filling for Linde because higher merges), Tharja and Nino one hit everything on the opposing color and take virtually no damage in return from most things. It teally helped me get deathless runs while breaking the 5.000 point barrier. I feel TA is extremely undervalued aswell, because people feel like you're already 'supposed' to defeat other colors, but TA ptetty much ensures kills a lot of times, which opens up their options and movements for next turn.

Edited by Birdy

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Furthermore, you're severely understating what Triangle Adept does and are focusing on only one aspect of it. Falchions are a lot less common now that player rosters are filling up, and Triangle Adept does two other things that you are ignoring:

  1. Nowi takes virtually zero damage from anything red that isn't named Raudhrblade (which is the rarest of the Litrblade tomes). This means Quick Riposte remains unbroken longer and she can typically hold up even against a mono-red team. Without Triangle Adept, most tanks get worn down after their second or third round of combat.
  2. Nowi can one-hit kill most red units outright by virtue of targeting Res, meaning she isn't useless on player phase like other slow counter killers and often doesn't need Quick Riposte against red opponents.

Nowi's bulk is high enough to hold up against a single same-color opponent before losing Quick Riposte, which is nothing out of the ordinary compared to other tanks. Unlike most blue units, however, Nowi has access to a +6/6 buff in Fortify Dragons on top of trainee infantry stat caps, giving her impressive mixed bulk. Her high HP pool means that after she has run out of targets, she can be targeted with or use Reciprocal Aid to heal another unit. High Atk that targets Res means she is also less dependent on a special skill to deal damage and can afford to use an "ineffective" special like Aether for more points without affecting her combat potential.

My problem with Nowi being good with TA, vs. reds, is that every blue is good with TA, vs. reds. This is neither unique to her nor particularly interesting. Reinhardt, for example, could run TA to take 0 damage from reds if he really wanted to, for some reason. (He could also just -blade Vantage Close Counter one-shot all of them with Hone Cav, though.)

Also, on offense, +Atk, TA 3 Nowi has 32 wins. Vs. for example, TA 3 Camus' 40 wins. (Nowi beats 29 reds, Camus beats 28). This suggests that hitting Res isn't good enough to offset the fact that Lightning Breath+ loses 4 MT relative to silvers, and thus 5MT relative to physical legendary weapons---it doesn't help that Nowi is pretty slow.

Nowi being able to run Aether isn't an advantage because she simply couldn't run specials that mean anything. Camus can run Aether for points if he wanted to, or an actual, relevant skill.

On defense, vs. default sets:

Nowi, +Atk, TA 3, QR:

81 wins, 11 losses, 42 draws

Camus, TA 3, QR:

82 wins, 19 losses, 33 draws

Camus, TA 3, QR, Moonbow:

88 wins, 19 losses, 27 draws

Camus has 8 more losses because he suffers in Res compared to Nowi, but, in exchange, he has 1 more win without special, and 7 more wins with Moonbow. This is in addition to the fact that he's on a horse and thus generally superior in terms of mobility.

Also, Camus on defense, with Fury 3, QR, Moonbow:

103 wins, 5 losses, 26 draws.

(60 wins, 3 losses on offense with this set)

 

Edit: Interestingly, Nowi reaches 102 wins, 4 losses, with Fury 3 in place of TA 3, on defense. Her offenses remain stagnant at 31 wins, however.

 

 

I'm not saying Nowi is bad, I'm saying she's worse than the alternatives.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Nowi's bulk is high enough to hold up against a single same-color opponent before losing Quick Riposte, which is nothing out of the ordinary compared to other tanks. Unlike most blue units, however, Nowi has access to a +6/6 buff in Fortify Dragons on top of trainee infantry stat caps, giving her impressive mixed bulk. Her high HP pool means that after she has run out of targets, she can be targeted with or use Reciprocal Aid to heal another unit. High Atk that targets Res means she is also less dependent on a special skill to deal damage and can afford to use an "ineffective" special like Aether for more points without affecting her combat potential.

QR breaks at 31 HP, (or 14 damage taken), that's 44 physical or 41 magical---what the hell is Nowi tanking that does this little damage?

Even after buffs that's 50 physical or 47 magical---both on the low side. Brave-lance, +Atk Cordelia, for example, reaches 46 physical before A-slot, and she's using a brave weapon. 50 Physical is 15 (silver weapon), plus 35 (or 32 with a boon) base attack. 47 magical is 13 (Silver Weapon), plus 34 (or 31 with boon) base attack.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

If Thany comes as a 16-Atk weapon that is effective against cavalry (or if the CYL characters come with their early-game Prf anti-cavalry anti-armor weapons with their anti-cavalry effect at the minimum still intact), I will laugh.

Thani would be 14 Atk, like the other ranged weapons. And even then, anti-cav might not be all that interesting compared to -blade tomes, it'll depend more on Micaiah's stat spread than anything. (That said, if it's effective against both cavalry and armor, rather than just one---seems unlikely, considering Caeda has armorslayer---Micaiah should be pretty great, due to one-shot potential with minimal support)

Edited by DehNutCase

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7 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

What I'm trying to get at with Lucina is that, even after running TA3, there are reds that can cripple Nowi. Most blues aren't forced to run TA3 just to beat their advantage color---but Nowi has to, because otherwise Falchions destroy her. This limits Nowi's viable builds, and limits her role on a team. Her A-slot is forced to TA3, which pretty much forces her B-slot to QR (because, with her low base speed and A-slot taken, she has no way to actually do things without QR doubles).

 

Compare her to Camus, for example, he doesn't need TA3---empty A still has him beating all swords off the back of his color and spread. This gives him the option to run Fury 3, L&D if you're feeling fancy, a generic +3 to stat skill, whatever. And his A-slot being free means that his B-slot is also free, he can run breakers vs. a unit type he hates (that isn't green), he can run renewal because, with 3 move, he can just renewal kite things to death, he can run QR---usually he doesn't need to, because he can reach 36 with Fury 3 or 38 with L&D. Camus is also on a horse for 3 move, no infantry weakness, and better buff support.

Nowi is the definition of a 'single niche unit,' thanks to her spread and typing, and even her TA3, QR niche is better done by other units. (Reinhardt, for example, can run Blade, Close counter, Vantage, to 1HKO everyone she can 2HKO, and more besides. Thanks to the sheer ridiculousness of horse class buffs. Ignoring Reinhardt, Nowi then has to beat Azura---Gem weapon for red coverage, and dance for when reds are gone. Ignoring Rein and Azura, there's Effie (who doesn't need TA to kill reds because she one shots them, and Wary means she never dies to anything). Ignoring armors, there's all the blue horses, Camus in particular, who can replicate her 1-2 range counter with minimum fuss. Ignoring horses, there's Ephraim who can do the same 'fuck reds' thing while also being great at buffing. Ignoring units with roles other than TA3 QR... and, I don't know, I guess Nowi might be the best at her niche, given that her niche is defined by 'TA 3, kill reds, do nothing else'?)

 

 

Edit: Basically, Nowi is the Setsuna of blue units. She has a good set, yes, but her good set can be done better by other units, and other units also have other good sets in addition to the set Nowi's forced to run.

Come on. There are four reds that can actually do noticeable damage to Nowi, and none of them are common anymore. She OHKO's them on the initiation (except for Alm, surprisingly enough, but whatever), and they require very specific set ups to actually kill her (which again, the AI will never actually accomplish.) Also, I don't know about other people, but I never even see Falchions anymore.

And while Nowi has like one/two common sets (but TA and QR is better in my opinion), that set is an extremely cheap set (4* Subaki and 4* Roy, 4* Selena will also suffice) that provides a lot of general coverage. It's not that hard for her to pick off a random ranged threat with QR, then happily eat swords afterwards anyway. She's easy-to-assemble role compression, checking/countering reds while also being good ranged/non-green bait with QR. And that's all you really need her to do. She's useful glue for a team. So, yeah, wins against all reds and is very splashable. At least A+ and a reasonably strong case for S.

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3 minutes ago, GaleforceAbuse said:

Come on. There are four reds that can actually do noticeable damage to Nowi, and none of them are common anymore. She OHKO's them on the initiation (except for Alm, surprisingly enough, but whatever), and they require very specific set ups to actually kill her (which again, the AI will never actually accomplish.) Also, I don't know about other people, but I never even see Falchions anymore.

And while Nowi has like one/two common sets (but TA and QR is better in my opinion), that set is an extremely cheap set (4* Subaki and 4* Roy, 4* Selena will also suffice) that provides a lot of general coverage. It's not that hard for her to pick off a random ranged threat with QR, then happily eat swords afterwards anyway. She's easy-to-assemble role compression, checking/countering reds while also being good ranged/non-green bait with QR. And that's all you really need her to do. She's useful glue for a team. So, yeah, wins against all reds and is very splashable. At least A+ and a reasonably strong case for S.

If 80 wins on defense and 30 wins on offense is S tier then most units in the game are S tier, and a good amount are S++++ tier.

 

Edit: Although that would explain a lot about why everyone with distant counter is so high on the tier list. Despite the fact that it's supposedly 'after inheritance,' aka everyone has access to DC and CC. (I guess no one bothered checking just how ridiculous people like Reinhardt are when they can counter at 1-2 range.)

Edited by DehNutCase

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18 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

If 80 wins on defense and 30 wins on offense is S tier then most units in the game are S tier, and a good amount are S++++ tier.

What are you talking about? Running through the mass duel simulator, if she initiates with LB+, Moonbow, TA3, QR3, and Threaten Res (+ATK, -HP), she gets like 80 wins even if all enemies are given Fury (74 wins if everything's neutral). If the enemy initiates (with Fury), she gets 91 wins and 30 losses (which are, of course, almost all against greens ==> realistically speaking, you'll also never see half of those greens.)

And Nowi tanks all reds (barring Falchions and like full-buffed Leo) without breaking QR, but she can just initiate on those while taking single digit or even no damage. Edit: Sorry, misread the last part. She can easily tank a red and still have QR up to take out another unit though. Still highly splashable glue. She doesn't really need to do much more. You can have her just sitting there repositioning people or using Reciprocal Aid or something.

Edited by GaleforceAbuse

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2 minutes ago, GaleforceAbuse said:

What are you talking about? Running through the mass duel simulator, if she initiates with LB+, Moonbow, TA3, QR3, and Threaten Res (+ATK, -HP), she gets like 80 wins even if all enemies are given Fury (74 wins if everything's neutral). If the enemy initiates (with Fury), she gets 91 wins and 30 losses (which are, of course, almost all against greens ==> realistically speaking, you'll also never see half of those greens.)

And Nowi tanks all reds (barring Falchions and like full-buffed Leo) without breaking QR, but she can just initiate on those while taking single digit or even no damage. 

...You're seriously using the numbers over 2 rounds of combat? Remove the 'enemy initiates' phase and see her stats.

 

Good units get better than that over one round of combat.

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41 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Edit: Although that would explain a lot about why everyone with distant counter is so high on the tier list. Despite the fact that it's supposedly 'after inheritance,' aka everyone has access to DC and CC. (I guess no one bothered checking just how ridiculous people like Reinhardt are when they can counter at 1-2 range.)

DC and CC take up a valuable A slot however. Reinhardt does the most damage when he has Death Blow triggering, and he can't take a serious hit from most Green units, like Julia or Hector. Hector still takes a beating, but from my experience one hit from Hector is enough to defeat most non-Horse Emblem Reins and can follow up so long as there isn't a lake or wall in-between. Julia I cannot speak for due to not having her, but just looking at her numbers and assuming she still has Naga, she should easily one-round Rein without suffering too many losses.

IMO, the best use of DC and CC are when it's not used as a skill, but when it is built into the weapon, ala Ryoma, Camus, and, of course, Nowi. It helps to have it, but DC and CC should not be your first pick for A slot. That's where Fury, Triangle Adept, Blow skills, and Life and Death go, which usually make or break a set.

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14 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

QR breaks at 31 HP, (or 14 damage taken), that's 44 physical or 41 magical---what the hell is Nowi tanking that does this little damage?

Even after buffs that's 50 physical or 47 magical---both on the low side. Brave-lance, +Atk Cordelia, for example, reaches 46 physical before A-slot, and she's using a brave weapon. 50 Physical is 15 (silver weapon), plus 35 (or 32 with a moon) base attack. 47 magical is 13 (Silver Weapon), plus 34 (or 31 with boon) base attack.

Quick Riposte breaks at 34 HP (15 damage taken) because I run everything on the +10 metagame where everything is tankier.

Anything that deals 54 physical (or 47×2) before mitigation fails to break Quick Riposte 3 when Fortify Dragons is up. +10 Distant Counter Ephraim [+Spd] deals 55 damage, meaning S Spur Def 1 is enough to prevent Quick Riposte 3 from breaking. +10 Distant Counter Azura [+Spd] deals 47×2 damage, which fails to break Quick Riposte 3 entirely.

 

Hell, +10 Life and Death 3 Lucina [+Spd] deals 53 damage before mitigation and can't double attack because she dies to the counterattack. +10 Fury 3 Lucina [+Spd] deals 51 damage and dies to the counterattack if Nowi has S Atk +1 or Lucina is -HP or -Res.

 

2 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

If 80 wins on defense and 30 wins on offense is S tier then most units in the game are S tier, and a good amount are S++++ tier.

Barely-wins are hardly wins at all unless your unit can keep going afterwards (which is what ranged attack initiation, Desperation, and Triangle Adept all let you do), and wins against more common and harder to check opponents should be weighted more highly than wins against less common opponents.

 

46 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

My problem with Nowi being good with TA, vs. reds, is that every blue is good with TA, vs. reds. This is neither unique to her nor particularly interesting.

What's unique is that Nowi (using +10 [+Atk, -Res] for numbers) has superlative mixed defenses (red needs 69 physical or 57 magical damage just to deal 1 damage), access to a +6/6 defensive buff, access to a weapon with innate Distant Counter, and enough Atk to one-hit kill her priority targets. Essentially, she does the Triangle Adept build better than any other non-Blarraven blue unit.

It also helps that she can tank an unbuffed standard +10 Reinhardt [+Atk] (Dire Thunder, Death Blow 3) in an emergency without losing her ability to perform her primary role of tanking red units.

 

Nowi is also not vulnerable to Weaponbreaker skills, meaning she is not threatened by opponents of the same color (outside of Litrblade opponents which threaten everyone regardless). In contrast, Swordbreaker, Lancebreaker, and G Tomebreaker are relatively common in same-weapon match-ups.

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I just realized daily orbs are ending tomorrow. Guess we better go for the 10 orbs on the tempest trials. Thank goodness I started saving my orbs.

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58 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Quick Riposte breaks at 34 HP (15 damage taken) because I run everything on the +10 metagame where everything is tankier.

Anything that deals 54 physical (or 47×2) before mitigation fails to break Quick Riposte 3 when Fortify Dragons is up. +10 Distant Counter Ephraim [+Spd] deals 55 damage, meaning S Spur Def 1 is enough to prevent Quick Riposte 3 from breaking. +10 Distant Counter Azura [+Spd] deals 47×2 damage, which fails to break Quick Riposte 3 entirely.

Is +Spd distant counter builds seriously more common than just slapping Fury on units? On defense, if Azura is getting hit, then she's all kinds of fucked, so I don't see why anyone would give her DC on a defense team. Ephraim I can sort of understand---given that he has the bulk to survive one hit and counter for a ton. (But then you go +Spd on him rather than +Atk, even though 29 is a really shitty speed tier when you used up your A-slot for DC. 29 is doubled by everyone with 31 speed or higher with just Fury 3, which is just another way to say everyone.)

I'll defer to your experience in the +10 range, though.

58 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Barely-wins are hardly wins at all unless your unit can keep going afterwards (which is what ranged attack initiation, Desperation, and Triangle Adept all let you do), and wins against more common and harder to check opponents should be weighted more highly than wins against less common opponents.

That sounds more like an argument against Nowi than for her---she's melee, she relies on QR to kill non-reds, and desperation and vantage do nothing for her. Close-counter, -blade, Vantage builds have the advantage of an obscene amount of 1 shots once they drop below Vantage range. (+0 Rein has 89 one shots vs. +10 enemies with Fury 3 while buffed +6 to all stats. +10 goes to 99) This is in addition to the fact that -blade tomes are 2 ranged.

And it's not just a Rein thing, Cecilia +0 has 75 one-shots vs. +10, Fury 3 enemies. (+10 has 85). This is despite green being the worst color due to having the largest amount of disadvantage matchups.

Leo, oddly enough, has only 59 one-shots at +0 vs. +10 Fury 3, but jumps to 81 at +10. (Seems to be because 29 base atk is a bit low to kill most reds at +10, Fury 3.)

In any case, red simply isn't that dangerous of a color---their horses are mediocre, their mages are only 'alright,' with Tharja's 32/34 being the best of the lot, and their melees are melee. Reds might be more common, but they're hardly hard to check.

58 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

What's unique is that Nowi (using +10 [+Atk, -Res] for numbers) has superlative mixed defenses (red needs 69 physical or 57 magical damage just to deal 1 damage), access to a +6/6 defensive buff, access to a weapon with innate Distant Counter, and enough Atk to one-hit kill her priority targets. Essentially, she does the Triangle Adept build better than any other non-Blarraven blue unit.

It also helps that she can tank an unbuffed standard +10 Reinhardt [+Atk] (Dire Thunder, Death Blow 3) in an emergency without losing her ability to perform her primary role of tanking red units.

Donnel with Sapphire Lance and DC performs comparably to Nowi, incidentally. (He has more wins whether it's +0 vs. +0s or +10 vs. +10s. Furthermore, he's also a 'trainee,' and thus have the same BST as Nowi.)  And, while Donnel has more losses at +0 vs. +0s, he has less losses at +10 vs. +10s. (This seems to be because his 2 higher Def matters more than Nowi's 2 higher hp and 4 higher res at higher merges.)

[I tested the numbers without giving Donnel a special.]

Also, only =Res, =Hp Nowi variants can tank +Atk, DB 3 Reinahardt. It's an exact KO with -hp. This means Nowi is either -Spd or -Def if she wants to tank Rein. (-Def is preferred if this niche is needed, because her speed means that she'll get doubled even by people running DC if she takes a bane in that stat.)

 

Donnel can't tank Reinhardt barring some weird ass +Res build, (which gives him 4 res rather than 3), but, unlike Nowi, he can use Moonbow or Luna to secure kills thanks to the fact that he doesn't have +1 special charge timer. (Donnel, admittedly, doesn't 2HKO rein while +Res, at least not without a special.) So +Res Donnel is an option with either Moonbow or Luna if tanking unbuffed Rein is somehow a needed niche.

Oboro also performs similarity, given that she's basically Donnel, but worse.

 

 

And, if we're speaking of +6/+6 buff access, Reinhardt says hi. (He has 27/25 defenses, which is very comparable to Nowi's 30/27 considering he's far better at 1HKOing people than she is---and thus saving HP via Vantage.) So does Camus, of course, but Camus is a bit more specialized---his res means that he's very lucky red mages aren't nearly as min-maxed as the mages in other colors.

Sure, Nowi's builds are cheaper, but they're neither unique nor is she the best at the role.

58 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Nowi is also not vulnerable to Weaponbreaker skills, meaning she is not threatened by opponents of the same color (outside of Litrblade opponents which threaten everyone regardless). In contrast, Swordbreaker, Lancebreaker, and G Tomebreaker are relatively common in same-weapon match-ups.

Nowi isn't vulnerable to Weaponbreaker because same color units double her without issue to begin with. She has 27 base speed and uses her A-slot for TA 3 rather than a stat passive. This means: Everyone with more than 29 speed and Fury 3 doubles her. (Although I guess people slap DC on everyone without realizing just how much stats their losing? That would make her speed tier a bit better since 32 speed is needed now, meaning the slower units lose their doubles.)

Fury 3 on all units gives her an additional 11 losses.

This is mostly a meta thing, though---given that the high merge tiers is apparently people stuffing DC on everyone her low speed probably doesn't matter much, because everyone else is also slow.

Edited by DehNutCase

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Just 7 stamina drinks worth of Kozaki runs to max out Est. Thanks to Kozaki, I'll have maxed out 5 units, gotten Cain to 1771 & Ursula to 1187. Plus however many runs I feel like doing in the remaining time. Shame I don't have more dupes at level 40, I could probably  have squeezed in a 6th.

Once this is done I'll probably get back to grinding up units to 40. I have so many half trained and untrained people I really need to get up to speed. Spring Lucina's been at level 28 for months.

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16 minutes ago, Falcom said:

I just realized daily orbs are ending tomorrow. Guess we better go for the 10 orbs on the tempest trials. Thank goodness I started saving my orbs.

I wonder if another drought is coming, barring those 10 orbs.

I'm debating on whether to do one more pull on the bride banner or not since I'll have exactly 20 orbs tonight. I have a pretty good Cordelia (+res/-def) and a shitty Lyn (+hp/-spd) already, but I'd still like a Charlotte and/or a better IV Cordelia(+atk) or Lyn while I can. Caeda I don't really care about as a character, but she has nice art and I don't have any infantry blue mages besides 3* Robins and Odins sitting around, so she'd be okay too.

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44 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Is +Spd distant counter builds seriously more common than just slapping Fury on units? On defense, if Azura is getting hit, then she's all kinds of fucked, so I don't see why anyone would give her DC on a defense team. Ephraim I can sort of understand---given that he has the bulk to survive one hit and counter for a ton. (But then you go +Spd on him rather than +Atk, even though 29 is a really shitty speed tier when you used up your A-slot for DC. 29 is doubled by everyone with 31 speed or higher with just Fury 3, which is just another way to say everyone.)

I'll defer to your experience in the +10 range, though.

I don't know why, but the Ephraims and Azuras I see are about 50/50 split between Fury 3 and Distant Counter.

My only guess for Azura is because the player doesn't want to switch skills between their offense and defense teams. Unlike the +0 meta-metagame where players can reasonably have two copies of a character, it's rare for a player to have 22 copies of a 5-star exclusive character unless they really, really like the character (says the person who has pulled 30 Julias).

 

44 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

That sounds more like an argument against Nowi than for her---she's melee, she relies on QR to kill non-reds, and desperation and vantage do nothing for her. Close-counter, -blade, Vantage builds have the advantage of an obscene amount of 1 shots once they drop below Vantage range. (+0 Rein has 89 one shots vs. +10 enemies with Fury 3 while buffed +6 to all stats. +10 goes to 99) This is in addition to the fact that -blade tomes are 2 ranged.

And it's not just a Rein thing, Cecilia +0 has 75 one-shots vs. +10, Fury 3 enemies. (+10 has 85). This is despite green being the worst color due to having the largest amount of disadvantage matchups.

Leo, oddly enough, has only 59 one-shots at +0 vs. +10 Fury 3, but jumps to 81 at +10. (Seems to be because 29 base atk is a bit low to kill most reds at +10, Fury 3.)

I think everyone and their mother agrees that Litrblade is stupid powerful. There is literally no point in comparing anything to a fully decked out Litrblade unit. Why are you even bothering to bring this up?

Secondly, it isn't an argument against Nowi because standard Nowi has one of those skills I mentioned.

 

44 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Also, only =Res, =Hp Nowi variants can tank +Atk, DB 3 Reinahardt. It's an exact KO with -hp. This means Nowi is either -Spd or -Def if she wants to tank Rein. (-Def is preferred if this niche is needed, because her speed means that she'll get doubled even by people running DC if she takes a bane in that stat.)

Nowi has 33 Res with -Res and Fortify Dragons. Reinhardt has 54×2 Atk for a total of 42 damage, leaving Nowi with 7 HP.

 

44 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

And, if we're speaking of +6/+6 buff access, Reinhardt says hi. (He has 27/25 defenses, which is very comparable to Nowi's 30/27 considering he's far better at 1HKOing people than she is---and thus saving HP via Vantage.) So does Camus, of course, but Camus is a bit more specialized---his res means that he's very lucky red mages aren't nearly as min-maxed as the mages in other colors.

Sure, Nowi's builds are cheaper, but they're neither unique nor is she the best at the role.

Reinhardt is S+ and rightfully so. There's no reason to bring him up in this discussion (except as an opponent).

Triangle Adept Camus can do the same that Nowi does against physical units, but can't pull the same feats against magical opponents. Camus without Triangle Adept will get worn down after a few rounds of combat.

 

Not to mention Camus is currently limited to a +1 merge, which is detrimental in the +10 metagame, but I'm not going to bring this up further.

 

44 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Nowi isn't vulnerable to Weaponbreaker because same color units double her without issue to begin with. She has 27 base speed and uses her A-slot for TA 3 rather than a stat passive. This means: Everyone with more than 29 speed and Fury 3 doubles her.

The importance is not that Weaponbreaker would allow opponents to double her, it's that Weaponbreaker would prevent her from activating Quick Riposte.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't know why, but the Ephraims and Azuras I see are about 50/50 split between Fury 3 and Distant Counter.

My only guess for Azura is because the player doesn't want to switch skills between their offense and defense teams. Unlike the +0 meta-metagame where players can reasonably have two copies of a character, it's rare for a player to have 22 copies of a 5-star exclusive character unless they really, really like the character (says the person who has pulled 30 Julias).

I think everyone and their mother agrees that Litrblade is stupid powerful. There is literally no point in comparing anything to a fully decked out Litrblade unit. Why are you even bothering to bring this up?

Secondly, it isn't an argument against Nowi because standard Nowi has one of those skills I mentioned.

Nowi has 33 Res with -Res and Fortify Dragons. Reinhardt has 54×2 Atk for a total of 42 damage, leaving Nowi with 7 HP.

Reinhardt is S+ and rightfully so. There's no reason to bring him up in this discussion (except as an opponent).

Triangle Adept Camus can do the same that Nowi does against physical units, but can't pull the same feats against magical opponents. Camus without Triangle Adept will get worn down after a few rounds of combat.

Not to mention Camus is currently limited to a +1 merge, which is detrimental in the +10 metagame, but I'm not going to bring this up further.

The importance is not that Weaponbreaker would allow opponents to double her, it's that Weaponbreaker would prevent her from activating Quick Riposte.

Fair enough, derp.

 

I guess I just don't value TA 3 units all that highly because 'kill unit, take 0 damage' is something good offensive units manage without problem, regardless of color. (And the best of them can run Fury 3 to tank a single round too.)

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Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Crap, I didn't realize daily orbs ended... I only have 15 orbs now since I did a pull two days ago... Muh wallet...

I have 19 orbs. Can't do a full summon FailFish

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