What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Alastor15243]

Just now, twilitfalchion said:

True, but this has been a trend since Awakening, where a lot of maps were just open areas with forts in them. Fates (BR and RV at least, haven't played CQ) may have had different map designs, but it was still overall very boring to play through.

Rev? Definitely. Birthright? Eh, I haven't analyzed the map design specifically recently, but I remember having fun with a few maps. Conquest, however, is in a league of its own in terms of map design.

[Sidereal Wraith]

7 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

You could just not play it.

I only even got since Echoes made me hopeful FE would be going in a direction I'd actually enjoy and I can safely say I was more disappointed than even before I played Echoes and assumed Three Houses wasn't that good. (Since even stuff that I didn't even consider they could screw up, like a mini-map, are completely screwed, It's pretty much safe to say I like absolutely nothing about this game I'm over 3 hours into.)

I’ve beaten all the other FE games, and I’d like to keep the tradition going.

[Ottservia]

37 minutes ago, twilitfalchion said:

True, but this has been a trend since Awakening, where a lot of maps were just open areas with forts in them. Fates (BR and RV at least, haven't played CQ) may have had different map designs, but it was still overall very boring to play through.

At least fates and awakening had variety in their map design and not reuse the exact same like 10 maps 20 million times

[Shrimpica]

People say 3H map desing is bad forgetting that more than Half the series has meh designs to begin with.

3H has better map design than FE4, FE6, FE7, FE8, FE11, FE12, FE13, FE14BR, FE14Rev and FE15.

[Strullemia]

Most FE games don't really have great maps anyway.

Only PoR, RD and CQ have really good maps. I haven't played FE1-FE3 FE12 but I've played every other games and people overestimate the map design from the older games.

EDIT: Forgot Thracia

Edited July 24, 2020 by Strullemia

[Samz707]

18 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

People say 3H map desing is bad forgetting that more than Half the series has meh designs to begin with.

3H has better map design than FE4, FE6, FE7, FE8, FE11, FE12, FE13, FE14BR, FE14Rev and FE15.

So far in 3 hours, I'd disagree.

Yes, Echoes has simple maps but so far in the exact same amount of time there's been more actual depth, Mountain tiles that protect you but slow you down (And having an enemy with a shield show up early on, showing how effective they are at stopping attacks, which if you forgot to class-change like me are a rude awakening that you should really get at least one unit as a mage ASAP.)

Yes that one map with a single bridge is kinda simple but it still has depth in that the one-tile wide bridge is a chokepoint you can funnel enemies through, it's simplistic but  there's still an element of capturing a strategic location than taking advantage of it. 

The closest thing so far was a map in TH (First Aux battle.) where I literally spawned one-two tiles away from a grass tile, I didn't rush to the tiles so I'd have an advantage against the last few enemies like the bridge, I was on an advantage right away and just sat there, practically where I spawned, to have an advantage, same with the two-tile bridge on the Red Canyon map, you literally spawn ontop of a good chokepoint so there's no incentive to move up til' everyone's dead, I literally just sit at where I spawned and that's the optimal strategy for an entire map, never had to push up, never had to do anything other than the odd bit of healing and attacks, just sit at where I spawned and win. (I wasted 3 hours in a the monestary to literally win a map in less than 10 minutes by just camping at the very start.)

I'd rather have one good position on a map that I have to make my way towards than literally spawning on one that lets me kill all/most of the enemies on the map.

Even the first real battle, where you're told to "split up" has no real incentive to do so, there's a chest near one route and that's it, your only advantage is that you have a better spot to fight a single archer enemy.

Even the tutorial map of FE6 made it so you were seriously screwed if Lilina died since your boss was an armor dude who'd mess Roy up easily meanwhile literally no armored dudes to encourage magic users have shown up in Three Houses yet Mages have just sorta been "Archers I don't have to pay to get a new bow" so far.

Again, Third map of Echoes, dude with a shield that you'll seriously want to have a magic user defeat, so you have to single out a dude as a signifficant threat and it introduces you to the shield items, Third map of Three Houses, I sat at the bushes I spawned on and that was the entire strategy.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Samz707

[TheChoZenOne]

I like the marriage option for the avatar. As well as child units. But only if they are done well like in Awakening, not like Fates.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

Quote

Fates (BR and RV at least, haven't played CQ) may have had different map designs, but it was still overall very boring to play through.

On 7/21/2020 at 11:29 PM, Shrimperor said:

3H has better map design than FE4, FE6, FE7, FE8, FE11, FE12, FE13, FE14BR, FE14Rev and FE15.

The only actively bad map in Shadow Dagon is Chapter 13: The Wooden Cavalry.

And I will break a lance (Naginata?) for Birthright here. The maps themselves are very much fine with just about two exceptions in my opinion (those being Chapter 18: Leo and Chapter 21: Burning Falls). In pretty much every chapter (and the following takes in account Lunatic only) you are presented with loot in some way, if its stored in a chest it is often threatened by an enemy thief yanking it. 

Spoiler

What difficulty the game presents to you is in my eyes twofold:

For one being able to keep your guys alive during EP, because Birthright gives you a much frailer cast than Conquest – that includes units such as Ryoma oh so revered for being op, yet a General in the lategame will wipe him the fuck out. And tanks are… well Rinkah exists. And X Unit + Guard Naginata.

And secondly, this working directly in conjunction with the mentioned above, the sheer number of enemies you will be facing.

To put this in perspective: You thought Priams Paralogue with 50 enemies was bad? Enjoy your 48 initial enemies in Chapter 25 Traitor revealed and add to that another 54 enemies spawning in from 4 different locations. Or Chapter 24 Tears of a Dragon with 34 initial enemies and 98 enemies being backup (obviously these are the outliers).

The one reason these maps may be boring is that the enemies, especially enemies that should be challenging are not. Xander? The guy gets weaker every time you meet him. Leo? Please, he´s a Dark Knight, almost all alone in the swamp, etc. pp. Playable Conquest units as enemies in Birthright are in general so far beyond redemption, Camillas stats in her Chapter in Birthright surpass lvl 10 Camilla in Conquest by +13HP/+2STR/+9MAG/+2SKL with a lvl difference of 11.

And that is (almost) fine. Because Birthright is supposed to be easy.

[Sidereal Wraith]

Read more classic genre fiction and literature, play less FE. You’ll thank me later.

 

[Icelerate]

On 7/21/2020 at 5:34 PM, Strullemia said:

Most FE games don't really have great maps anyway.

Only PoR, RD and CQ have really good maps. I haven't played FE1-FE4 FE12 but I've played every other games and people overestimate the map design from the older games.

EDIT: Forgot Thracia

That's shocking. 

[Strullemia]

Just now, Icelerate said:

That's shocking. 

Oh whoops, that was a typo.

I meant FE3.

[Troykv]

Each time people talk about Three Houses here is sadness.

It makes me want to reconsider what I actually like and what should be liked.

[Samz707]

39 minutes ago, Troykv said:

Each time people talk about Three Houses here is sadness.

It makes me want to reconsider what I actually like and what should be liked.

Eh just because others don't like it doesn't mean you can't.

I like a good few games that tend to be wildly considered bad, yeah I do agree with the flaws most of the time but I can still enjoy it for what I enjoy in it.

[starburst]

2 hours ago, Troykv said:

Each time people talk about Three Houses here is sadness.

It makes me want to reconsider what I actually like and what should be liked.

Nah, this is the Unpopular Opinions thread. If anything, people are still infatuated with Four Houses to start accepting complaints.

But it is interesting to identify and understand your preferences. For we may like the same game for very different reasons.

Leaving Four Houses aside to avoid an argument about it, I liked Octopath Traveller and would undoubtedly recommend it. However, after I had already played it various times, I realised how different my perception was from that of the immense majority of the Internet. I enjoyed it, but, apparently, for the opposite reasons. 🙃

The presentation and the music are noteworthy, the story is cliched and only passable, and the gameplay is super easy and very broken-prone, but I enjoyed it; even though I had to set various restrains to make it ever challenging.
Well, 99 % of the reviews and comments online will tell you how necessary grinding is, where you should grind, how to save-scum and get powerful equipment early, how to grind for money, how to get advanced classes early… It makes no sense to me! I have completed it at least ten times and would recommend you exactly the opposite if you want to enjoy it. 😂

[Yexin]

don't know if this is an unpopular opinion or not, i've just never seen it anywhere

"there should be more original classes and less recycled ones"

don't know about you, but i'd be much more likely to care for a character if said character works completely different from others, it would actually give me a reason to explore his/her strenghts and weaknesses, aside from the boring "higher bases/growth rates/weapon ranks" thing
more original classes means more ways to create always new strategies to beat different chapters, and removes the "i'll only use this early game character because the others with the same class simply have less space for improvement" aspect most FE games have

Edited July 24, 2020 by Yexin

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Troykv said:

Each time people talk about Three Houses here is sadness.

It makes me want to reconsider what I actually like and what should be liked.

I've levied a few complaints about Three Houses here, but I actually like it a lot ^.^ The monastery stuff can be tedious but it does provide a lot of short term goals to achieve that gets the dopamine flowing.

[Sidereal Wraith]

17 hours ago, Troykv said:

Each time people talk about Three Houses here is sadness.

It makes me want to reconsider what I actually like and what should be liked.

Play the game and formulate your own opinion on its virtues and failings.

[Shrimpica]

13 hours ago, Yexin said:

don't know if this is an unpopular opinion or not, i've just never seen it anywhere

"there should be more original classes and less recycled ones"

don't know about you, but i'd be much more likely to care for a character if said character works completely different from others, it would actually give me a reason to explore his/her strenghts and weaknesses, aside from the boring "higher bases/growth rates/weapon ranks" thing
more original classes means more ways to create always new strategies to beat different chapters, and removes the "i'll only use this early game character because the others with the same class simply have less space for improvement" aspect most FE games have

I think a problem with FE classes in general is how they are mostly limited by weapons. 3H tried to ammend that by trying to add class exclusive skills.

But even then, other than personal skills (and very rarely, prf weapons) not much differentiates charactters.

It's why i think Characters should learn more personal skills as they level up, instead of class ones, and limit class skills to one or two per class. Will make characters more unique. Also, more prfs.

[Yexin]

30 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

I think a problem with FE classes in general is how they are mostly limited by weapons. 3H tried to ammend that by trying to add class exclusive skills.

But even then, other than personal skills (and very rarely, prf weapons) not much differentiates charactters.

It's why i think Characters should learn more personal skills as they level up, instead of class ones, and limit class skills to one or two per class. Will make characters more unique. Also, more prfs.

there are many ways to create more original classes, even excluding skills

movement, stats and weapons are already more than enough elements to play with in order to create original classes, and even if you feel they aren't, you can always add more elements, such as new weapon types or unit types (cavalry, armored and so on)

for example, in a dedicated thread, i expressed my desire to see something resembling the Monk class from D&D and Pathfinder, and i created a class line based on this idea (3H's brawler line is the closest thing to that but it doesn't give me the same feeling): this line's quirk is to let players choose if they want to equip Gauntlets and deal more damage, or equip no weapon (Bare Fists are used instead) and sacrifice damage for passive buffs to Avoid, Crit and Accuracy

imo the best way to handle skills is how FE4 did, meaning "this class gets immediate access to these skills, this other class gets immediate access to these other skills" along with personal skills depending on the character
of course, being this 2020, we could hope for more skills, and thus more diversification and options

Edited July 25, 2020 by Yexin

[lenticular]

17 hours ago, Yexin said:

don't know if this is an unpopular opinion or not, i've just never seen it anywhere

"there should be more original classes and less recycled ones"

don't know about you, but i'd be much more likely to care for a character if said character works completely different from others, it would actually give me a reason to explore his/her strenghts and weaknesses, aside from the boring "higher bases/growth rates/weapon ranks" thing
more original classes means more ways to create always new strategies to beat different chapters, and removes the "i'll only use this early game character because the others with the same class simply have less space for improvement" aspect most FE games have

New and different classes would definitely be nice from the perspective of characterisation, world building and story, but I'd be very wary of how adding too much new stuff would impact the game mechanically. The more "stuff" that gets added, the harder it is to memorise and internalise what it all does. Ideally, for a turn-based tactics/strategy game, I want to spend as little time as possible trying to remember all the different rules and mechanics and as much time as possible thinking about the consequences of the mechanics and how to apply them in interesting ways.

Having recycled classes means I don't need to constantly re-learn that pegasus knights are weak to archers, or whatever. It also means there's less chance of some annoying gotcha where I lose a unit not because of poor tactics but because I overlooked some obscure ability that a particular enemy unit has.

[Yexin]

19 hours ago, lenticular said:

New and different classes would definitely be nice from the perspective of characterisation, world building and story, but I'd be very wary of how adding too much new stuff would impact the game mechanically. The more "stuff" that gets added, the harder it is to memorise and internalise what it all does.

on the contrary, i think unique classes would be much easier to remember, and the reason is precisely because only one character has it
that character's strength and weaknesses are clear the secon you deploy them on the field and engage combat

recycled classes, while easier to remember because you already know those archetypes on a general line since you already have experienced them in past FE games, force IntSys to give characters with the same class differences so minor and stupid you shouldn't even bother considering, and the only result is to make those characters dull and boring, with no real quirk that differentiates them from other
also, the moment you chose to dump characters because you've already been using another character with the same class due to earlier availability, imo that's really poor game design

if you have more characters with unique classes, you don't even have to consider the "male-female" stats difference, to name one: they are made unique by what they are and what they and only they can do
and yes, this makes characters more memorable

19 hours ago, lenticular said:

Ideally, for a turn-based tactics/strategy game, I want to spend as little time as possible trying to remember all the different rules and mechanics and as much time as possible thinking about the consequences of the mechanics and how to apply them in interesting ways.

you're saying that you don't want to waste time learning new mechanics and rules, so how is it that your favorite FE is 3H, which has a gameplay almost as broken as Awakening's, and is full of excessive mechanics?

19 hours ago, lenticular said:

Having recycled classes means I don't need to constantly re-learn that pegasus knights are weak to archers, or whatever. It also means there's less chance of some annoying gotcha where I lose a unit not because of poor tactics but because I overlooked some obscure ability that a particular enemy unit has.

point is, you're playing a strategy game, not a musou: thinking and acquiring as many informations as possible is this kind of games' core
also, if you lose a unit because you didn't want to check skills and stats, that's your fault for being superficial, not the game's for having added new elements
again, your arguments are in complete contrast with the fact that 3H is your favorite FE, which added so many redundant mechanics
i don't get this

Edited July 26, 2020 by Yexin

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Yexin said:

on the contrary, i think unique classes would be much easier to remember, and the reason is precisely because only one character has it
that character's strength and weaknesses are clear the secon you deploy them on the field and engage combat

recycled classes, while easier to remember because you already know those archetypes on a general line since you already have experienced them in past FE games, force IntSys to give characters with the same class differences so minor and stupid you shouldn't even bother considering, and the only result is to make those characters dull and boring, with no real quirk that differentiates them from other
also, the moment you chose to dump characters because you've already been using another character with the same class due to earlier availability, imo that's really poor game design

if you have more characters with unique classes, you don't even have to consider the "male-female" stats difference, to name one: they are made unique by what they are and what they and only they can do
and yes, this makes characters more memorable

you're saying that you don't want to waste time learning new mechanics and rules, so how is it that your favorite FE is 3H, which has a gameplay almost as broken as Awakening's, and is full of excessive mechanics?

point is, you're playing a strategy game, not a musou: thinking and acquiring as many informations as possible is this kind of games' core
also, if you lose a unit because you didn't want to check skills and stats, that's your fault for being superficial, not the game's for having added new elements
again, your arguments are in complete contrast with the fact that 3H is your favorite FE, which added so many redundant mechanics
i don't get this

Not really in a game with perma death.

[Yexin]

16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Not really in a game with perma death.

i could argue that, due to the massive popularity boost FE got these last years, those who play permadeath are nothing but a minority
secondly, in this minority, those who don't reset chapters and actually make use of different characters with the same class are numerically irrelevant

if this doesn't apply to your playstyle, remember, this topic is called "your unpopular FE opinion"

Edited July 26, 2020 by Yexin

[Silver-Haired Maiden]

1 hour ago, Yexin said:

on the contrary, i think unique classes would be much easier to remember, and the reason is precisely because only one character has it
that character's strength and weaknesses are clear the secon you deploy them on the field and engage combat

recycled classes, while easier to remember because you already know those archetypes on a general line since you already have experienced them in past FE games, force IntSys to give characters with the same class differences so minor and stupid you shouldn't even bother considering, and the only result is to make those characters dull and boring, with no real quirk that differentiates them from other
also, the moment you chose to dump characters because you've already been using another character with the same class due to earlier availability, imo that's really poor game design

if you have more characters with unique classes, you don't even have to consider the "male-female" stats difference, to name one: they are made unique by what they are and what they and only they can do
and yes, this makes characters more memorable

My biggest issue with this is that if everyone's unique, unique stops being important or memorable. Unless you majorly downgrade the number of units the game gives you. With a cast of 20 or more characters though it would become a bit of a slog more than anything unique or memorable.

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Yexin said:

i could argue that, due to the massive popularity boost FE got these last years, those who play permadeath are nothing but a minority
secondly, in this minority, those who don't reset chapters and actually make use of different characters with the same class are numerically irrelevant

if this doesn't apply to your playstyle, remember, this topic is called "your unpopular FE opinion"

True, but then there's also been a trend in significantly reducing the number of later game prepromotes you acquire in recent Fire Emblem games too. Especially in Three Houses where you pretty much have your entire team from the start of the second chapter.