Jump to content
BlackSymphony

What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Just cause it's a story of war and the horrors of it does not mean it needs to go full edge on us. 

I mean, geez, AM and SS were just damn depressing with how they generally have not a lick of lighter moments. I don't want to be some edgelord, but trying to commit to it only becomes annoying. 

Sure but full rom-com stuff like Awakening would be awful personally, I played TH for 2 hours (Technically 3 but I had to take breaks because the academy stuff is literally more dull than my work job) today about 20 min of that was combat. The rest was essentially padding, so adding even more to it is the last thing I want.

Three Houses also tried to tackle people taking lives for the first time, it was a complete failure since the regular battle dialogue still played , so they'd taunt the dude then freak out but they tried.

That said, FE game with blood when? Desarix got His head put on a pike and there was blood in the Gaiden manga, where's my FE game where a killing Edge crit causes Anime blood hose syndrome? and I guess some explosion spell sends gibs everywhere because the Echoes scene where Celica gets stabbed is ruined by the shiny white blood.

Edited by Samz707

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Sure but full rom-com stuff like Awakening would be awful personally, I played TH for 2 hours (Technically 3 but I had to take breaks because the academy stuff is literally more dull than my work job) today about 20 min of that was combat. The rest was essentially padding, so adding even more to it is the last thing I want.

Three Houses also tried to tackle people taking lives for the first time, it was a complete failure since the regular battle dialogue still played , so they'd taunt the dude then freak out but they tried.

That said, FE game with blood when? Desarix got His head put on a pike and there was blood in the Gaiden manga, where's my FE game where a killing Edge crit causes Anime blood hose syndrome? and I guess some explosion spell sends gibs everywhere.

Don't compare manga and game here, please. Manga offers more freedom compared to games, which have standards that must be met.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Sure but full rom-com stuff like Awakening would be awful personally,

Awakening a romcom, really? I dunno what kind of romcoms you’ve been watching where characters overcome adversity through realizing their mistakes and fight for a future worth believing in. Awakening is more like your average battle-shounen if nothing else

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

I don’t understand why people expect every character to be fleshed out and fully 3 dimensional. In the case of shadow dragon specifically. I don’t think it needs to flesh out any more of its characters. It’s very much so Marth’s story and it doesn’t aspire to be anything more than that. I think the story is fine as is. It’s a simple coming of age hero’s journey. The characters are only fleshed out as much as is necessary to get across its ideas and that’s totally fine.

It being Marth's story shouldn't detract from everyone else. Other characters should be fleshed out for the sake of Marth's story. 

As far as storytelling go the motto ''Your enemies shall define you'' typically is one to follow. Our achievements are made all the greater by the force one must overcome to get there. Path of Radiance is clearly Ike's story before anyone else, and that journey is all the more impactfull because the shadow of the Black Knights is always there. Marth's story on the other hand is hindered by every single one of his enemies being a non entity to Marth's story. Michalis might be important to Archenea but he's certainly not important to Marth. That this goes for Medeus, the grand antagonist and the arch nemesis of Marth's house as well reflects very poorly on Marth's journey. 

What are the Starks without the Lannisters? What's Luke Skywalker without Darth Vader and what's Mario without Bowser? Infinitely lesser is what they would be. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It being Marth's story shouldn't detract from everyone else. Other characters should be fleshed out for the sake of Marth's story. 

As far as storytelling go the motto ''Your enemies shall define you'' typically is one to follow. Our achievements are made all the greater by the force one must overcome to get there. Path of Radiance is clearly Ike's story before anyone else, and that journey is all the more impact because the shadow of the Black Knights is always there. Marth's story on the other hand is hindered by every single one of his enemies being a non entity to Marth's story. Michalis might be important to Archenea but he's certainly not important to Marth. That this goes for Medeus, the grand antagonist and the arch nemesis of Marth's house as well reflects very poorly on Marth's journey. 

What are the Starks without the Lannisters? What's Luke Skywalker without Darth Vader and what's Mario without Bowser? Infinitely lesser is what they would be. 

Pretty much this. Marth also needs other characters to talk to aside from the boring adviser guy and the plot important princess. He really would have benefited from additional scenes where he talks with either Caeda and/or Hardin, especially the latter considering how big they play up Marth and Hardin's friendship in the sequel, which as mentioned earlier, is someone you wouldn't really notice from playing Shadow Dragon considering they have only one conversation with each other, and Hardin doesn't say or do anything after his recruitment.

Edited by Gregster101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't entirely agree with people that the horrors of war should be more central to the narrative. 

It should obviously be present to some extend and that Fates often discounted the horrors of war was to its detriment. But taking this stance too far would ignore that Fire Emblem stories were never very grim and that they always made room for lighthearted moments. You can still tell its a somewhat Nintendo take on war. There are often dark themes like slavery, brutal occupation, massacre and numerous rape implications but in almost every game there's more lighthearted material to counter this. The artstyle and personalities of many characters have always been anime inspired and colorful, Team L'arachel was a comedy trio long before the Awakening days and there's no shortage of juvenile scenarios like Lalum's aforementioned accusation of Roy looking at her bum. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't entirely agree with people that the horrors of war should be more central to the narrative. 

It should obviously be present to some extend and that Fates often discounted the horrors of war was to its detriment. But taking this stance too far would ignore that Fire Emblem stories were never very grim and that they always made room for lighthearted moments. You can still tell its a somewhat Nintendo take on war. There are often dark themes like slavery, brutal occupation, massacre and numerous rape implications but in almost every game there's more lighthearted material to counter this. The artstyle and personalities of many characters have always been anime inspired and colorful, Team L'arachel was a comedy trio long before the Awakening days and there's no shortage of juvenile scenarios like Lalum's aforementioned accusation of Roy looking at her bum. 

Yeah, there are. Like how Awakening has the fact that there is actually the darkest timeline where Grima won and basically destroyed the world, but then we have the cases of everyone in Awakening having quirky personalities that causes us to forget that they are fighting for a legit horrid monster that has destroyed the world once. 

There generally needs to be a balance of both sides. Have some lighthearted and funny moments, but not at the expense of just making us completely forget the stakes at hand.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It being Marth's story shouldn't detract from everyone else. Other characters should be fleshed out for the sake of Marth's story. 

As far as storytelling go the motto ''Your enemies shall define you'' typically is one to follow. Our achievements are made all the greater by the force one must overcome to get there. Path of Radiance is clearly Ike's story before anyone else, and that journey is all the more impact because the shadow of the Black Knights is always there. Marth's story on the other hand is hindered by every single one of his enemies being a non entity to Marth's story. Michalis might be important to Archenea but he's certainly not important to Marth. That this goes for Medeus, the grand antagonist and the arch nemesis of Marth's house as well reflects very poorly on Marth's journey. 

What are the Starks without the Lannisters? What's Luke Skywalker without Darth Vader and what's Mario without Bowser? Infinitely lesser is what they would be. 

You’re looking at the story the wrong way. Shadow dragon’s story is very basic hero’s journey. Like let me ask you this? What is the point of shadow dragon? What messages or ideas is it trying to get across? And are fleshing out its side characters necessary to get those things across?

the difference with path of radiance is that it has that theme of family and bonds beyond blood. The greil mecenaries consider each other family and rely on each other, so developing the relationships between those characters is necessary to get across that thematic point. Also Path of radiance is just as much Ike’s story as it is Ellincia’s and even just the Laguz in their entirety. 
 

For shadow dragon it’s not necessary because the core of its story is simply Marth’s journey to reclaim his kingdom. So long as the story accomplishes that goal, it should be fine. Fleshing out the side characters any more than they already have is simply unnecessary. Yeah one of the main messages at the end is that he couldn’t have done it alone but you don’t need to flesh out side characters to get that message across. That message is already clear through being able to recruit new units through Ceada or the forced decoy you have to use in the prologue. Would it be nice if we got more wrys backstory? Yes, it would.

but is it necessary? No, not really 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't entirely agree with people that the horrors of war should be more central to the narrative. 

It should obviously be present to some extend and that Fates often discounted the horrors of war was to its detriment. But taking this stance too far would ignore that Fire Emblem stories were never very grim and that they always made room for lighthearted moments. You can still tell its a somewhat Nintendo take on war. There are often dark themes like slavery, brutal occupation, massacre and numerous rape implications but in almost every game there's more lighthearted material to counter this. The artstyle and personalities of many characters have always been anime inspired and colorful, Team L'arachel was a comedy trio long before the Awakening days and there's no shortage of juvenile scenarios like Lalum's aforementioned accusation of Roy looking at her bum. 

Same but Three Houses tries to tackle it more (well more than FE7) with the first kill (and maybe PTSD? since some of the cast mention not exactly being fine afterwards like Dorothea) so I brought it up. (even if it's a failure personally.)

As for the Juvenile scenerios, they were IMO, never as bad as Awakening was, Roy never worries about his dad then Lilina socks him the face for it, sure there was wacky support stuff but I never got the impression in any of the supports that "Wow, this character is actually an bit of a iredeemable ass." nor was it ever super painful to read in the ones I've seen. (Which I know is very much a "Me" thing but that's how flat the humor lands.)

41 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Awakening a romcom, really? I dunno what kind of romcoms you’ve been watching where characters overcome adversity through realizing their mistakes and fight for a future worth believing in. Awakening is more like your average battle-shounen if nothing else

Fiction isn't just a single genre, Yes Awakening is Battle-shounen but alot of the comedy is striaght outta bad anime scenes involving love-interests (Which are naturally more common in romcoms) that's really painful to watch for me, movies/video games/anime don't always stick to a single genre. (MGS is serious spy-fiction generally for instance but frequently breaks the genre.)

42 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Don't compare manga and game here, please. Manga offers more freedom compared to games, which have standards that must be met.

Yeah but Blood generally only puts a game up to 15 Rating for us Europeans instead of 12 (Frankly I'm amazed FE has stayed 12 rated all these years, considering well, the incest, rape implications, murder and all that lovely child-friendly stuff.)  and while I can't speak for other rating boards, there are a good few PEGI games that are still rated 12 despite blood/sometimes even a bit  of mild gore. (And if Older games tend to get re-rated for a modern re-release, they usualy tend to end up being ranked lower, Duke 3D was 18 back in the 90's but now is only 16 nowadays on the Switch Port storepage and that's probably mostly due to the strippers.)

I know Tomb Raider 2 on the PS1 (Has blood and "Undetailed" gibbing, basically when the character model just detaches without gore/blood effects and usually vanishes after landing) on the PS1 is rated Teen by the ESRB.(And apparently was re-rated to 12 by PEGI for the App store re-release  after originally being 15 according to fan-sites, though it's hard to tell for sure since the App store version got pulled.)

Edited by Samz707

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Focusing on one character only and ignoring everyone else is one way to make me hate the Characters and Story of a game. 

I don't want MCs to be blackholes.

As for bases and hubs and stuff, well
I like how Berwick Saga did it, since i am playing that game atm

dQI83he.png

Edited by Shrimperor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

You’re looking at the story the wrong way. Shadow dragon’s story is very basic hero’s journey. Like let me ask you this? What is the point of shadow dragon? What messages or ideas is it trying to get across? And are fleshing out its side characters necessary to get those things across?

the difference with path of radiance is that it has that theme of family and bonds beyond blood. The greil mecenaries consider each other family and rely on each other, so developing the relationships between those characters is necessary to get across that thematic point. Also Path of radiance is just as much Ike’s story as it is Ellincia’s and even just the Laguz in their entirety. 
 

There's no more basic a heroes journey then Star Wars and they still massively benefited from having Darth Vader around. The same can be said of all those sort of stories including Path of Radiance...especially Path of Radiance due to how it benefits from the Black Knight. A heroes journey needs a villain and preferable a deeply personal one to the hero.  

Sure. Path of Radiance does have other themes its very interested in but Path of Radiance is still primarily Ike's journey from mercenary boy to hero. And every step of this journey is helped by the Black Knight being the imposing villain Ike must defeat. That's the big theme of POR. Many other themes are present, sometimes very strongly so but they take second place compared to Ike's journey and are wrapped up in another game after Ike's hero's journey is complete. 

13 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

For shadow dragon it’s not necessary because the core of its story is simply Marth’s journey to reclaim his kingdom. So long as the story accomplishes that goal, it should be fine. Fleshing out the side characters any more than they already have is simply unnecessary. Yeah one of the main messages at the end is that he couldn’t have done it alone but you don’t need to flesh out side characters to get that message across. That message is already clear through being able to recruit new units through Ceada or the forced decoy you have to use in the prologue. Would it be nice if we got more wrys backstory? Yes, it would.

but is it necessary? No, not really

I wouldn't say its just a journey about Marth reclaiming his kingdom. After all there's still a large chunk of the game left to go when he accomplishes that. Marth's homeland being taken is the catalyst of his journey and not its central theme. Its not just reclaiming Altea but slaying Medeus like his ancestor before him that's a big chunk of Marth's story. From the very start Marth is aware of, and expected to perform the duty of holding Falchion and slaying Medeus rather than just free his own homeland. And this gets undermined by the target of his destiny being a non entity. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

You’re looking at the story the wrong way. Shadow dragon’s story is very basic hero’s journey. Like let me ask you this? What is the point of shadow dragon? What messages or ideas is it trying to get across? And are fleshing out its side characters necessary to get those things across?

the difference with path of radiance is that it has that theme of family and bonds beyond blood. The greil mecenaries consider each other family and rely on each other, so developing the relationships between those characters is necessary to get across that thematic point. Also Path of radiance is just as much Ike’s story as it is Ellincia’s and even just the Laguz in their entirety. 
 

For shadow dragon it’s not necessary because the core of its story is simply Marth’s journey to reclaim his kingdom. So long as the story accomplishes that goal, it should be fine. Fleshing out the side characters any more than they already have is simply unnecessary. Yeah one of the main messages at the end is that he couldn’t have done it alone but you don’t need to flesh out side characters to get that message across. That message is already clear through being able to recruit new units through Ceada or the forced decoy you have to use in the prologue. Would it be nice if we got more wrys backstory? Yes, it would.

but is it necessary? No, not really 

 

15 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I wouldn't say its just a journey about Marth reclaiming his kingdom. After all there's still a large chunk of the game left to go when he accomplishes that. Marth's homeland being taken is the catalyst of his journey and not its central theme. Its not just reclaiming Altea but slaying Medeus like his ancestor before him that's a big chunk of Marth's story. From the very start Marth is aware of, and expected to perform the duty of holding Falchion and slaying Medeus rather than just free his own homeland. And this gets undermined by the target of his destiny being a non entity. 

I believe Marths' journey is about the case of confronting the evils of man in regards to war. 

  • You have Camus, who serves the evil in the war out of loyalty as a knight, showing how even loyalty can become a fault for someone and lead to greater harm.
  • You have Michalis, who acts sort of as an evil while working with evil for the sake of his ambitions in making his nation be the strongest, which shows how ambitions can destroy one.
  • You have Gharnef, who is the evil that simply covets power and wants to rule everything, showing how power corrupts someone so horribly. 

Medeus never expresses what his desires are, but is overall meant to be the "embodiment" of all the evil, because all the other people are simply working for him, and he is ultimately the final enemy to be overcome. 

However, I do stand by the notion that Shadow Dragon needed to have more development of other characters and stories for them all. Marth should actually have interacted with the other characters and learned more. The same for other characters also developing their own issues. Like the entire case of Minerva and Maria having to deal with having to fight their own brother Michalis. Or Linde in how she wants to avenge her father by killing Gharnef. 

Sure, with the huge cast of characters in Shadow Dragon, a rather short game when we think about it, that doesn't mean that there isn't potential to be explored. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

Focusing on one character only and ignoring everyone else is one way to make me hate the Characters and Story of a game. 

I don't want MCs to be blackholes.

As for bases and hubs and stuff, well
I like how Berwick Saga did it, since i am playing that game atm

 

Yeah that's pretty much my problem with Byleth, since it seems sudden and out of place when anyone suddenly likes them  Alm has a personality, I can see why other characters would like Alm while with Byleth it feels like I've literally accidently skipped a bunch of dialogue between Byleth and other characters.

Edited by Samz707

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Yeah that's pretty much my problem with Byleth, since it seems sudden and out of place when anyone suddenly likes them  Alm has a personality, I can see why other characters would like Alm while with Byleth it feels like I've literally accidently skipped a bunch of dialogue between Byleth and other characters.

Byleth isn't a blackhole though. The game puts much much more focus on the lords themselves than Byleth, and people can actually build relationships with other.

He will seem like a Blackhole if you don'T do supports or Paralogues.

Well, FE's support system is retarded anyway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Byleth isn't a blackhole though. The game puts much much more focus on the lords themselves than Byleth, and people can actually build relationships with other.

He will seem like a Blackhole if you don'T do supports or Paralogues.

Well, FE's support system is retarded anyway

I got Bernie and Lindhardt's C supports and it's basically them suddenly liking Byleth,  only Sylvain's so far actually broke this trend.

Are they sarcastic? I dunno since the game frequently lacks a sarcastic option in appropriate scenes.

Are they a hard-ass warrior person? Some conversations let you say stuff among that but others dont.

There's no real consistent tone to their conversation options in my 7 hours to gather any sort of actual personality, If they sarcastic why is it frequently not an option, if they're a military hardass, why is that also only occasionally an option.

The only trend I notice is that they seemingly don't question things much, considering how many times something happens that most people would ask about and Byleth just sorta ignores it and moves on. (Felix talking about the Boar Prince on crimson flower where if it wasn't for the internet talking about Dimitri , I'd have had no clue what he was on about and probably assume it was some PG rated slur towards Claude and not asking Jeralt about Leonie.)

Its a problem with other characters too, Casper I still know nothing about despite talking to him as often as possible, same with Petra aside from not speaking good, their monestary dialogue is mostly character-less.

Edited by Samz707

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I don’t understand why people expect every character to be fleshed out and fully 3 dimensional. In the case of shadow dragon specifically. I don’t think it needs to flesh out any more of its characters. It’s very much so Marth’s story and it doesn’t aspire to be anything more than that. I think the story is fine as is. It’s a simple coming of age hero’s journey. The characters are only fleshed out as much as is necessary to get across its ideas and that’s totally fine.

For Shadow Dragon alone, maybe. But with Mystery of the Emblem already existing, then for the overarching narrative of Archanea, I think Hardin definitely should have been fleshed out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

For Shadow Dragon alone, maybe. But with Mystery of the Emblem already existing, then for the overarching narrative of Archanea, I think Hardin definitely should have been fleshed out.

Yeah that’s fair. I can see that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

As for bases and hubs and stuff, well
I like how Berwick Saga did it, since i am playing that game atm

A support has been obtained.

Also, just wondering, does doing paralogues unlock dialogue later, or have I just drawn the short end of the stick on them plot-wise? 'Cause both I've done so far, (Ashe's and Ingrid's) have been basically pseudo-grind maps.

*I forgot about Lorenz's paralogue, that one was fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Ottservia said:

I don’t understand why people expect every character to be fleshed out and fully 3 dimensional. In the case of shadow dragon specifically. I don’t think it needs to flesh out any more of its characters. It’s very much so Marth’s story and it doesn’t aspire to be anything more than that. I think the story is fine as is. It’s a simple coming of age hero’s journey. The characters are only fleshed out as much as is necessary to get across its ideas and that’s totally fine.

i dont think every person who go into war have that multi dimensional persona either. like maybe most of them are forced into war or just there because he's capable enough using a weapon. Not necessarily everyone need a sob story. IMO thats reserved for main characters first and foremost. Imagine if people start complaining advance wars or total war didnt fleshed out enough soldier 😁

12 hours ago, Benice said:

Yeah, that was an idea I toyed around with re; a remake fo Binding Blade. One of mine was that Roy should promote after ch. 16 into a mounted knight lord class, then maybe promote into a 3rd tier class and become a wyvern-riding type class, (since one of the themes of FE6's plot is kinda Roy being the successor of Hartmut, even though he isn't his descendant, so a wyvern might be good for pushing that theme a bit more) after 21/x. I don't mind him getting the BB when he does, though. (I really would like it to have a lot more uses than it does in the OG, though.)

oh, not realy unpopular then
-----
another unpopular: The less we got Self-insert/avatar char in FE games the better.

Spoiler

sorry if someone already said it, i cant resist it

FE is not western RPG no need to mimic them. its not like many western RPG are successful with that idea either, since i've played a handful RPG with custom char as main,  and hardly ever remember the main character more than the side character. The total count of character present in the game also differs greatly. and some other reason too...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Shrimperor said:

...that's nothing, considering how long the game is

I disagree, 7 hours is always a lot of time with a game. Regardless if the game is 9, 13 or 50 hours long.

I think Battalions should have been x-com style additional soldiers (So generics with random names), with the Battalion type dictating their class/starting stats, it'd add to actually feeling like you have an army (instead of everyone just having Jojo Stands). I guess maybe they could also do the DS thing with the reinforcements,  where you can deploy additional "Leaderless" Battalions if your unit count drops below a certain point, They'd still have to be inferior to named units though.

Edited by Samz707

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Samz707 said:

I disagree, 7 hours is always a lot of time with a game. Regardless if the game is 9, 13 or 50 hours long.

7 hours could give you a feeling of the game

But nothing in depth about the characters

4 hours ago, Samz707 said:

I think Battalions should have been x-com style additional soldiers (So generics with random names),

Then they wouldn't be gambit attacks but shadow dragon nameless peeps.

Dunno about you, but i am not a fan of that. The only playable generics in FE should be like the ones in that FE5 escape mechanic

4 hours ago, Samz707 said:

it'd add to actually feeling like you have an army

It will just add units to the bench.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Samz707 said:

I think Battalions should have been x-com style additional soldiers (So generics with random names)

so, generic units without portrait? or like what? *never play xcom*

if generic unit without portrait that serves to make the battlefield more crowded with controlable unit.. i dont think we need that kind of unit in FE
If something else, please explain

Edited by joevar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, joevar said:

so, generic units without portrait? or like what? *never play xcom*

if generic unit without portrait that serves to make the battlefield more crowded with controlable unit.. i dont think we need that kind of unit in FE
If something else, please explain

I wouldn't mind if Fire Emblem took a note from Trails of Cold Steel and given NPCs character arcs that make you care about them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...