Kemono Friends Mafia - Game Over

[Anime27Arts]

5 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Voting them is a good way to get their attention, just saying.

Very true but I wasn't sure who seemed more scummy.  After reading through it again it seems like Macks was a misunderstanding more so than anything. That and he doesn't think my face is scummy like a certain someone.

For now I'm going with ##Vote: Greencapps 

This certainly isn't final and once you explain it I'll probably take it back when you give your point.

[Prims]

Day 1.2 - Votals


Greencapps (2) - Bartozio, Anime27arts
Mackc2 (2) - DefaultBeep, Sunwoo
Rapier (2) - Arcanite, SB.
DefaultBeep (1) - Mackc2
Michelaar (1) - Rex Glacies
Rex Glacies (1) - Michelaar
SB. (1) - Greencapps

Not Voting (3): Magnificence Incarnate, Rapier, Shinori

You have 60 hours and 24 minutes left in the day. With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer. For Day 1 only, the player with the most votes will be lynched (no hammer required).

[Bartozio]

5 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:

Quoting them is better for attention 

Votes are for a response 

Fair. I think she wants a response though.

1 minute ago, Anime27Arts said:

 That and he doesn't think my face is scummy like a certain someone.

....

Am I ever going to hear the end of this, even though it was obviously a joke?

[Anime27Arts]

9 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Fair. I think she wants a response though.

....

Am I ever going to hear the end of this, even though it was obviously a joke?

Yeah I was going for a response. Sorry it's much easier to get people's attention in person.

 

As for the joke I was going to let it slide after that. I only brought it up because I saw Mack's post about knowing the part about my face was a joke. I won't hold it against you xD

[SB.]

The noise to content ratio in this game is waaaaay off.

I think Mackc2 is more scatterbrained than scumbrained. His reaction to Bartozio's vote on him is very much in line with his page 1 play, where he was confused about my vote which was a similar deal. The only thing I could really point out about him is that he sounds a little like he's echoing Boron's point about fuck spam after contributing a fair amount to it himself. Overall I don't think he reads like maf though, he's just a bit impressionable.

##Unvote
##Vote: Bartozio

Speaking of Bartozio, I think that his opinion on Mackc2's reaction doesn't look good. Saying "That would be understandable" but then not expanding on why he's torn between the reaction being scummy or not looks kind of fake. It doesn't look like he has a reason for doubt, but then he's still leaving the option available. It doesn't match up.

[Bartozio]

27 minutes ago, SB. said:

The noise to content ratio in this game is waaaaay off.

I think Mackc2 is more scatterbrained than scumbrained. His reaction to Bartozio's vote on him is very much in line with his page 1 play, where he was confused about my vote which was a similar deal. The only thing I could really point out about him is that he sounds a little like he's echoing Boron's point about fuck spam after contributing a fair amount to it himself. Overall I don't think he reads like maf though, he's just a bit impressionable.

##Unvote
##Vote: Bartozio

Speaking of Bartozio, I think that his opinion on Mackc2's reaction doesn't look good. Saying "That would be understandable" but then not expanding on why he's torn between the reaction being scummy or not looks kind of fake. It doesn't look like he has a reason for doubt, but then he's still leaving the option available. It doesn't match up.

 

3 hours ago, Bartozio said:

If you saw it as a serious argument your reply makes sense, but I'm not entirely sure how much I'm willing to buy into that right now.

I said his reply makes sense under the assumption he took it as a serious argument from me, but that I'm unsure whether I believe he really thought I was being serious. His main argument for believing I was serious is that I actually voted him for it, but he should be aware people are voting for random reasons at that point.

 

[SB.]

What reason would he have to lie about not understanding it as town?

[Bartozio]

23 minutes ago, SB. said:

What reason would he have to lie about not understanding it as town?

I don't really understand the question?

If he is town, there's no point in lying here. If he's scum, he may have wanted to shut down my argument just in case, but later realized he was acting to defensively and lied to hide that fact.

[SB.]

That's my point. Saying that something could be X or the opposite without taking a stance is virtually useless unless you're actively seeking out the opinions of others to help you with the read.  You aren't actually taking a stance so it reads like you're just posting it to look good.

@Prims I'm gone for 24+ hours, probably won't post again until tomorrow night.

[Arcanite]

9 hours ago, Greencapps said:

It was either him or Arc and I like Arc.

<3

8 hours ago, Bartozio said:

This is something only scum could do, since a townie would be focussing on gathering information on other people to much to forget said other people exist...

I'd vote him, but I have an even better case, so FoS I think it's called?

You're not talking to me are you?

[Greencapps]

8 hours ago, Bartozio said:

This is something only scum could do, since a townie would be focussing on gathering information on other people to much to forget said other people exist...

She's new give her some slack.

5 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Anyhow, I'm finding it a bit odd how GreenCaps is not trowing any votes around while being an experienced player (and making a decent amount of posts). That, combined with his reluctance to lynch someone D1 feels very passive to me (the same goes for Anime, but she's only read one game, so I can let it slide a bit more easily).

##Unvote

##Vote: Greencapps

1. It's Greencapps one word 2 ps and no capital C

2. In games I've played on other forums lynching didn't start till after the first night which is why I was so against the ideo of a random lynching at first. I've sense changed my mind on the matter cause it just seems inevitable.

3. I have voted and if you were actually paying any attention you'd see that. Sounds like a scum trying to take out a high profile player 

therefore

##Unvote

##Vote: Bartozio

@Anime27Arts This is your first game right?

Rule #1 is always fact check people's claims. If you don't a scum can easily trick you into believing something false.

I recommend you change your vote. But in the end it's up to you.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Greencapps

[Michelaar]

Bartozio, you're playing very aggresively, especially on the new players, like Arcanite. Is there any specific reason for this? Like, I don't really understand your vote. I'm tempted to vote you because of it, but i'll hold off from that until I hear your explanation.

[Greencapps]

5 hours ago, Anime27Arts said:

It was weird that Glacies thought that no one would die D1. That could be something though this early in the game I think it could just be a newbie mistake.

Regarding Glacies it was just poor wording on his part. 

5 hours ago, Anime27Arts said:

Greencapps and Mack seem to have been taking some jokes extremely serious which seems a little bit off. Almost as if they are eager to try to find a place to throw blame towards.

Can't speak for Mack but I take mafia seriously plus the D1 lynching concept is new to me so perhaps I was a bit too jumpy at first. Didn't expect the joke from SB. and because of the conveniently close timing of the posts it felt very scumy. I've sense changed my tune on SB. after seeing his later posts and see him as a valuable ally for the time being.

5 hours ago, Anime27Arts said:

Boron wants to get down to business get rid jokes and other unnecessary posts which is completely understandable and I will try to limit some of that to a minimum on here. Not necessarily scummy, just wants people to take it more seriously.

Funny how you praise Bart for being serious after condemning me an Mack for the same thing.

5 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Voting them is a good way to get their attention, just saying.

This is utter crap as pointed out by Mack and honestly just feels like a scum trying to get newbies to pile on votes that could unintentionally cause a death. And from your later post it seems to have worked.

Bart is super sus the more I look at it the more he seems to be scum.

Right now Anime you just seem to be going with whatever Bart says which means your scum with him or just super impressionable.

Again think for yourself. Sheep townies are how scum win.

Sorry for the double post lol.

I just had more to say and I only realized after my first.

[Greencapps]

27 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

In games I've played on other forums lynching didn't start till after the first night which is why I was so against the ideo of a random lynching at first. I've sense changed my mind on the matter cause it just seems inevitable.

And if you need proof I've got links.

[Anime27Arts]

1 hour ago, Greencapps said:

Regarding Glacies it was just poor wording on his part. 

Can't speak for Mack but I take mafia seriously plus the D1 lynching concept is new to me so perhaps I was a bit too jumpy at first. Didn't expect the joke from SB. and because of the conveniently close timing of the posts it felt very scumy. I've sense changed my tune on SB. after seeing his later posts and see him as a valuable ally for the time being.

Funny how you praise Bart for being serious after condemning me an Mack for the same thing.

This is utter crap as pointed out by Mack and honestly just feels like a scum trying to get newbies to pile on votes that could unintentionally cause a death. And from your later post it seems to have worked.

Bart is super sus the more I look at it the more he seems to be scum.

Right now Anime you just seem to be going with whatever Bart says which means your scum with him or just super impressionable.

Again think for yourself. Sheep townies are how scum win.

Sorry for the double post lol.

I just had more to say and I only realized after my first.

That's what I figured from Glacies.

I was just asking for an explanation as far as your serious tone. I have yet to really get to know you yet so I don't know what behaviors are odd for you.

## Unvote

 I questioned Mack's seriousness because I've never seen them really serious about anything on all the forums I've seen him in. 

I said nothing about Bartozio. Boron is Sunwoo.  I didn't praise him for being serious,  his personality is just far more serious  than say Mack or Arcanite.

I'm not trying to just go along with Bartozio, I'm just trying to get used to the game.  Sunwoo also said it was best for new players to bounce a vote around and see what happens and from the one game I've seen first day investigations help.

[Greencapps]

23 minutes ago, Anime27Arts said:

Boron is Sunwoo.

Ah my mistake lol.

23 minutes ago, Anime27Arts said:

I have yet to really get to know you yet so I don't know what behaviors are odd for you.

This might bite me in the ass if I'm ever a mafia in a game with you but for now it should just prove my innocence, if you want to read up on my have history I can give you links.

23 minutes ago, Anime27Arts said:

I'm not trying to just go along with Bartozio, I'm just trying to get used to the game.

Yea I don't think your scum just didn't want to rule out the possibility.

No hard feelings man just being thorough in my defense.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Greencapps

[Bartozio]

@Michelaar: My first post was ment as a joke post, neither my case on Arc nor Mack were ment to be taken to seriously (the same goes for Anime, but I think that one was obvious at the very least).

If my other posts feel agressive, it's because I want there to be cases on people so we have something to discuss (more serious content means we have more to go on for our D1 lynch). I personally didn't feel like I was pursuing my cases that aggresively, I'm merely voting on the person I found most suspicious while giving my reasoning for doing so (hoping to get a reaction on it).

51 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

She's new give her some slack.

1. It's Greencapps one word 2 ps and no capital C

2. In games I've played on other forums lynching didn't start till after the first night which is why I was so against the ideo of a random lynching at first. I've sense changed my mind on the matter cause it just seems inevitable.

3. I have voted and if you were actually paying any attention you'd see that. Sounds like a scum trying to take out a high profile player 

1. My appologies.

2. Thank you, this explains things a bit better for me. It's not a completely random lynching, because you can still analyze people's votes and reasoning (as you are doing right now).

3. You casted one vote (without a lot of reasoning) when I posted that, and it was after people were being told to vote more by the more experienced players. Before that, you seemed to be content with letting the shitposting continue (not voting is worse then joke voting at that point imo, because it puts less pressure on people). I can somewhat understand it after your second point, but I don't see what's wrong with my reasoning when I posted it.

51 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

@Anime27Arts This is your first game right?

Rule #1 is always fact check people's claims. If you don't a scum can easily trick you into believing something false.

I recommend you change your vote. But in the end it's up to you.

You're aware she's voting on you because you reacted seriously to a joke post, which is different from my reasoning right? She never once mentions your reluctance to vote people in her posts at all.

27 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

Funny how you praise Bart for being serious after condemning me an Mack for the same thing.

She's praising Boron (now Sunwoo), not me. Aliases are mentioned in the first post of this thread.

27 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

This is utter crap as pointed out by Mack and honestly just feels like a scum trying to get newbies to pile on votes that could unintentionally cause a death. And from your later post it seems to have worked.

Why? Mack mentioned voting is mostly useful for getting a response sure, but you're reacting to accusations because people are voting on you. Other people have mentioned voting more is good, why am I the one who is scummy for saying it?

I'm assuming people are clever enough to not vote for people when they are close to getting lynched. You only got two votes, which is quite far away from being dangerous.

I get the idea that the whole reason you find me scummy is because you believe playing aggresive is scummy. I don't agree with this and actually think playing passively is scummy. Wasting a day is a good thing for scum, not town. We need more information, while the mafia have all the information they need. What is playing passively going to do for us?

I also feel like this play of yours is very defensive. Me and Anime voted you, so you're building up a case against me and painting Anime off as being manipulated by me. Meanwhile, your other vote and reasonings don't seem to have nearly as much reasoning behind them (and you've not given us your opinion of Mack's "weird" responses either (the reason I say it like that is because whether it's weird or not is the topic of discussion)).

While I can somewhat see a towny making any of these actions individually, all put toghether it's not painting a good picture of you in my book.

[Sunwoo]

2 hours ago, Michelaar said:

Bartozio, you're playing very aggresively, especially on the new players, like Arcanite. Is there any specific reason for this? Like, I don't really understand your vote. I'm tempted to vote you because of it, but i'll hold off from that until I hear your explanation.

 

If you don't vote, then you don't get anything done. Like it was already stated, there is no reason to hold onto your vote.

Like so.

##Unvote

##Vote: Michelaar

For the record, I still think Mackc2's reaction to Bartozio's analysis was too overly serious (which feels slightly scummy), but right now a point has to be made.

[Sunwoo]

Also, playing aggressively is not a scum tell.

[DefaultBeep]

I'm awake and also back. Apologies again for the spam, but it looks like there's been more to work with in terms of serious (well, serious for day 1) discussion, which I'm okay with.

Anyway, from what I've gathered...

Greencapps (can I call you Green? Or Greenie? Or would you prefer the full username?) does seem a bit oddly aggressive, but that lines up with how he played in a thread he linked me to previously, so I don't think aggressive play is necessarily abnormal for him.

Anime27Arts (can I call you Anime? Or Arts? Or the full username?) seems to be almost strangely friendly and forgiving with most of the players, although I've been guilty of the same thing at times (especially with the people here I already know). It could very well be nerves for being newer, or just her playstyle, so I won't get too suspicious yet.

Mackc2 (can I call you Mack? Or would you prefer the full?) has been a little all over the place, but that could still be from him being newer than others here (at least I think Mackc2 has only been in one other game? Could be wrong). He's gone back and forth from throwing out jokes and joke votes to being almost weirdly serious though, which I'm not sure what to make of yet.

Sunwoo (your username is already pretty short as it is) did give me that vote earlier, but he was pretty quick to explain that it was more for getting the game going, which I can understand. He's been a little quiet compared to the others here, but observing could just be his playstyle.

I'm gonna hold on to my vote for Mackc2 for now, but the other three are the only ones I really had observations on. The others either haven't been active as much, or don't seem very noteworthy as of yet.

[Michelaar]

Uhm, I did vote though earlier. And unlike others, I'd like to give people the space to explain themselves. Maybe that's not how you play the game, but it is how I play the game. 

Again, I feel like playing aggresively like Bartozio does at the moment is very suspicious, since I feel like there really is no reason to at the moment he did it. But, he explained his vote fine, so I will not place my vote on him, simple as that. 

[Greencapps]

20 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

you believe playing aggresive is scummy.

I don't.

Hell part of some people's reasoning against me, including yours, is that I was to aggressive at first so this claim is blantantly contradictory.

23 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

I also feel like this play of yours is very defensive. Me and Anime voted you, so you're building up a case against me and painting Anime off as being manipulated by me.

I was accused by 2 people with shaky reasoning at best and outright lies at worse. Of course I'm gonna make a defensive play. If anything you think being defensive is a scummy play.

Plus Anime was sus of both me and Mack but decided to vote for me only after you did. I think it's safe to assume you at least influenced her.

26 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

You're aware she's voting on you because you reacted seriously to a joke post, which is different from my reasoning right?

Again perhaps I was a bit jumpy but the timing was really all I had to go off at the moment and that raised a red flag to me. Regardless by your logic throwing your weight around is a good thing I don't see why what I did was any different.

29 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

1. My appologies

It's no big deal just a pet peeve of mine.

29 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

2. Thank you, this explains things a bit better for me. It's not a completely random lynching, because you can still analyze people's votes and reasoning (as you are doing right now).

Yea I knew it wasn't gonna be completely random from the start but I held back my vote to keep a low profile and wait to see how others act till casting. Thus my reaction to the joke.

33 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

3. You casted one vote (without a lot of reasoning) when I posted that, and it was after people were being told to vote more by the more experienced players. Before that, you seemed to be content with letting the shitposting continue (not voting is worse then joke voting at that point imo, because it puts less pressure on people). I can somewhat understand it after your second point, but I don't see what's wrong with my reasoning when I posted it.

I'd have to go back and check but I'm pretty sure I had explained my reluctance before your post and had about as much reasoning as anybody could have for a vote that early. Your reasoning still doesn't hold up.

Again differences in how I perceive D1. To me that's the time to shitpost and have a little fun before shit gets real.

43 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Meanwhile, your other vote and reasonings don't seem to have nearly as much reasoning behind them

Even you agree that early votes don't have to have good reasoning. If you didn't you'd be on Arc's case about this too.

45 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

She's praising Boron (now Sunwoo), not me. Aliases are mentioned in the first post of this thread.

Already been corrected by Anime earlier. I was unaware that aliases were a thing, my mistake.

46 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

(and you've not given us your opinion of Mack's "weird" responses either (the reason I say it like that is because whether it's weird or not is the topic of discussion)).

Didn't really pay much attention to that, give me a sec and go formulate my opinion.

49 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

Wasting a day is a good thing for scum, not town. We need more information, while the mafia have all the information they need. What is playing passively going to do for us?

Also kinda comes down to the different D1s and also some really unfortunate games I've been a part of (rampant double even triple lynchings, just a ton of pointless bloodshed that led to mafia wins) perhaps I'm just a little too concerned that'll happen here so I course corrected too much.

Plus again I have changed my mind a bit on that and even had done so before your post.

For now you continue to be the most sus of everyone here so I'm gonna keep my vote.

5 minutes ago, DefaultBeep said:

Greencapps (can I call you Green? Or Greenie? Or would you prefer the full username?) does seem a bit oddly aggressive, but that lines up with how he played in a thread he linked me to previously, so I don't think aggressive play is necessarily abnormal for him.

Green or Capps is fine, please no Greenie tho. 

In case you guys want to learn my tells here are some games with my role attached:

Detective

Townie, first to be lynched.

Townie, duped by secret role, also known as Dunky Kong initially.

Townie (well I randomized into one)

Mafia, first game

Defender/Cop blend

[Greencapps]

On the Mack debate I'm siding with DB. on this one. Bart didn't do a very good job at making it look like a joke and I can totally see how Mack misconstrued it. Plus people voting is enough to make anyone a little uneasy. I don't think he was being inconsistent at all.

[DefaultBeep]

8 minutes ago, Greencapps said:

Green or Capps is fine, please no Greenie tho. 

In case you guys want to learn my tells here are some games with my role attached:

Detective

Townie, first to be lynched.

Townie, duped by secret role, also known as Dunky Kong initially.

Townie (well I randomized into one)

Mafia, first game

Defender/Cop blend

Alright cool, no problem. Green is just a bit faster and easier to type out than Greencapps, but I figured I'd make sure first.

 

I'm gonna wait until I see more from Mackc2 before doing anything with my vote. He's not necessarily acting overly suspicious, but I'm not 100% sure that anyone else is acting more suspicious just yet.

[Rapier]

18 hours ago, SB. said:

I just like taking any opportunity to shitpost.

You're our champ model.

19 hours ago, Greencapps said:

Lynching without any evidence seems kinda dumb to me. The chance of us actually killing scum are slim and we could end up killing a valuable aly. I'm refraining from voting.

If you don't vote, you don't put pressure. If you don't put pressure, you won't get tells for scumhunting. That line of reasoning is more harmful to town than it is to mafia (who benefits from the town's inaction and passiveness).

 

---

Ok, thoughts.

I'm not liking Greencapps' reactions. He refrains from voting anyone in early game due to lack of evidence for lynching. While I don't think this is good reasoning (as I've stated above), this doesn't make him automatically scum. However, he then points out to SB being scummy in his eyes, yet... he does nothing about it. No pressure, no vote. It feels like a handwaved commentary with zero effort with regards to actual scumhunting, which accomplishes nothing.

Those two "blunders" make me highly skeptical because I wouldn't expect two simple mistakes from someone who claims to be a veteran player. Those actions are also harmful for town, and I don't think it is likely that those two incidences are a complete coincidence.

Ok, granted, he did vote SB 2 pages later and agreed with Sunwoo's logic, even though earlier on he didn't agree with similar points made by other players and refrained from voting. That opinion change seemed like it came from nowhere and it contradicted with his previous posts reinforcing his non-voting stance. That convenient flip-flopping doesn't really sit well with my scumradar.

I also don't like how he says voting a player to get their attention is "utter crap and just feels like a scum trying to get newbies to pile on votes that could unintentionally cause a death."

The context makes it clear he is talking about the votes on him. Problem is, by that point, he only has 2 votes - nowhere as close to being hammered. It also attempts to fear monger (because there is no risk of hammering) and paint scum intent on detractors (because he claims Bart's action feels like he wants to trick newbies into hammering) when there isn't anything explicit or implicit backing this up, which is something scum do to shift the burden from their shoulders and distract.

##Vote: Greencapps

If Bart is scum, why aren't you voting him?

 

I also agree that Mack2c is being overly defensive about the joke reasoning behind Bartozio's vote on him. However, I rather like how he didn't try to paint his voter as scum, instead stating that it makes no sense for scum to act the way he did. I don't agree with his reasoning, but scum usually have the intent of shifting the burden toward someone else and avoiding the limelight, which is not something he did. I'm rather liking this, but it's too early to tell.

With that said, do you have opinions in other people in this game?

 

I'll read Bart because my intuition says there's something useful to learn about from rereading some of his later posts, but for now my opinion isn't formed on the matter.