Jump to content
XRay

Reinhardt, Thunder's Fist

Recommended Posts

Reinhardt, Thunder's Fist

Reinhardt is famous and got a lot of counters recently for a good reason. Unless you are a player who can anticipate and manipulate the AI well, Reinhardt's existence forces most players to run a counter, or at least a check. As an owner of a triple Reinhardt defense team, triple BH!Lyn defense team, and triple Hector defense team, I can say with confidence that triple Reinhardt defense team is the most broken mono character defense team so far, giving me in excess of 10+ Arena defense wins every week.

Reinhardt combines the best of many, many worlds: the offensive superiority of ranged units; high mobility of cavalry units; insane stat buffs of non-infantry units; magical Weapons' targeting of the generally weaker Resistance stat; and physical Weapons' Brave effect.

The only units that do not fear his Thunder or his Fists are green units who can counter attack and blue units with insanely high Resistance who can also counter attack. Common green units to watch out for are Deirdre, Julia, Sonya, Hector, Titania, Camilla, and PA!Azura. Less common green units include Gronnraven mages with Triangle Adept and Deflect Magic, like Boey. For blue units to avoid, common ones include lance fliers, Peri, and Azura wielding Berkut's Lance and Distant Counter.

Reinhardt can achieve even better performance with Blárblade or surprise unsuspecting players with Raven builds, but those are less common as the investment cost does not justify the marginal returns.

 

Level 40 stats:

HP: 34/38/41
Atk: 29/32/35
Spd: 20/23/26
Def: 23/27/30
Res: 22/25/28

Total: 144~145

Default skills:

Weapon: Dire Thunder
Assist: [none]
Special: Blazing Thunder
Passive A: [none]
Passive B: Vantage
Passive C: Goad Cavalry

 

Dire Thunder:
General use, Arena offense, Arena Defense

Spoiler

Nature: [+Atk, -HP/Spd/Def/Res]

Dire Thunder
Reposition / Rally Def/Res / [flexible Assist]
Moonbow / Aether / Luna
Death Blow 3
Lancebreaker 3 / B Tomebreaker 3 / Swordbreaker 3 / [flexible passive B] / Wings of Mercy / Desperation 3 / Watersweep 3
Hone Cavalry / Fortify Cavalry / [flexible passive C] / Savage Blow 3
Heavy Blade / Quickened Pulse / Attack +3 / Savage Blow 3 / Brash Assault 3 / Phantom Speed 3

This is his most common skill set.

Rally Def/Res-Aether-Wings of Mercy 3: These skills can be run to boost your Arena score. Additionally, on a defense team, Rally Def/Res prevents your units from Assisting their teammates into bad positions and Wings of Mercy can surprise unsuspecting players.

Moonbow-Quickened Pulse: This combination is used to take out even the bulkiest unit green units like lowly merged Hectors.

Desperation 3 — Brash Assault 3: If he manages to survive and get below 50% health, this set makes him enter "Super Saiyan" mode. Brash Assault activates by allowing him to make a follow up attack against any unit who can counter attack, and Desperation moves his follow up attack forward to land four hits consecutively.

Watersweep 3 — Phantom Speed 3: This combination with Hone Cavalry buffs aims to shut down dragons.

Savage Blow 3 — Savage Blow 3: This can be used during Tempest Trials as units are mostly running their vanilla sets with random skills as filler, so Vantage is not a huge threat. With two Savage Blows equipped, he can quickly take down groups of enemy units.

Budget:

Fury 3 / Attack +3: This is basically Death Blow 1.5.

Blárblade:
General Use, Arena offense

Spoiler

Nature: [+Atk/Spd, -HP/Def/Res]

Blárblade+
Reposition / [flexible Assist]
Glimmer / Moonbow / [flexible Special]
Life and Death 3 / Swift Sparrow 2 / Darting Blow 3
Lancebreaker 3 / B Tomebreaker 3 / Desperation 3
Hone Cavalry / Fortify Cavalry / Savage Blow 3 / Threaten Res 3
Speed +3 / Attack +3 / Heavy Blade / Quickened Pulse / Savage Blow 3

Blárblade Reinhardt has better performance with maxed cavalry buffs, but he needs more support from his teammates. Olwen and Ursula can also run the set better since they are faster and can utilize Desperation much more effectively. This build is generally not utilized due to the high investment cost compared to the minimal gain in performance.

Glimmer/Moonbow-Quickened Pulse: This combination is used to allow him to kill more units in his first round of combat. Glimmer is better if he has full cavalry buffs.

Desperation 3: If he runs Speed +3 or has more buffs to his Speed such as from Goad Cavalry, he can run Desperation pretty well.

Savage Blow 3 — Savage Blow 3: This can be used during Tempest Trials as units are mostly running their vanilla sets with random skills as filler, so Vantage is not a huge threat. With two Savage Blows equipped, he can quickly take down groups of enemy units.

Blárblade-Close Counter-Vantage:
Arena offense

Spoiler

Nature: [+Atk, -HP/Def/Res]

Blárblade+
Reposition / Swap / [flexible Assist]
Glimmer / [flexible Special]
Close Counter
Vantage 3
Hone Cavalry / Fortify Cavalry / Threaten Res 3 / Savage Blow 3
Attack +3 / Savage Blow 3

This is a niche build that capitalizes on Reinhardt's high attack and cavalry buffs. As long as enemies are not running things like Firesweep Weapons, Triangle Adept, Watersweep, Hardy Bearing, or be on a fort tile, Reinhardt should have no problem killing things in one hit. This build might not be viable on some non-competitive maps like Tempest Trials on higher difficulties due to the increased bulk from inflated stats.

Reposition / Draw Back / Swap: This is mostly used to pull teammates back, and Swap can also put him out there while pulling units back in one action.

Threaten Res 3: This skill helps Reinhardt kill bulkier green melee units if they land in range.

Savage Blow 3 — Savage Blow 3: This can be used during Tempest Trials as units are mostly running their vanilla sets with random skills as filler, so Vantage is not a huge threat. With two Savage Blows equipped, he can quickly take down groups of enemy units.

Attack +3: Helps him one hit enemies.

Blárraven/Blárserpent:
Arena Assault

Spoiler

Nature: [+Atk/Def, -Spd/Res]

Blárraven+ / Blárserpent+ [Res]
Reposition / Swap / [flexible Assist]
Glimmer
Triangle Adept 3
Bowbreaker 3 / Quick Riposte 3 / R Teombreaker 3
[flexible passive C] / Threaten Res
Attack +3 / Defense +3 / Resistance +3 / Deflect Missile 3

While Reinhardt has the bulk to run a raven build, it is generally better for other units to run this since Reinhardt and Olwen are the only ones who can run Dire Thunder.

Credits:
@bottlegnomes: Watersweep 3-Phantom Speed 3; dragon slaying.

Edited by XRay
Grammar and other writing mistakes; elaborations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, XRay said:

Reinhardt can achieve even better performance with Blárblade

Uh, you should go more into detail with that one because it's quite the bold statement. In comparision to his standard set and Blarraven build I don't see how Reinhardt is supposed be better as a -blade cavalier, especially if he competes with his sister who has much better Spd for that role (he caps at 40 Spd and that's after Hone Cavalry, L&D and Spd+3 seal which is enormous investment).

EDIT:
The Blarblade build that I know utilizes stuff like CC and Vantage to troll your opponent to death with a fully-buffed Reinhardt. It still utilizes +Atk however since it is all about killing everything with 1 hit. Compared to his sister he can reach 81 Atk with full buffs, Atk boon and +3 Atk seal. There is little that would survive that (exceptions being greens with TA and high Res) so I'm not sure what you intend with all that Spd.

Edited by Talandar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Talandar It’s definitely not a bold claim. Reinhardt both has a higher base Atk and bulk compared to Olwen, and with CC Vantage most enemies will just straight up die to 75 Atk at base without getting the chance to attack.

The main issue with Bladehardt is that it requires more investment than his Dire Thunder build for only a marginal increase in performance. It is definitely better than his flagship set, but not much more so. He also left a disclaimer on the actual set outlining exactly this.

Ursula and Olwen prefer Blárblade to to their default weapons since their base Atk is low, but there’s been calcs that demonstrate Reinhardt’s -Blade set is better than both Ursula’s and Olwen’s.

Edited by MrSmokestack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@MrSmokestack
But that doesn't explain why he recommends +Spd and L&D on the A-slot of all things. I do acknowledge the CC+Vantage set but what is he trying to showcase here? That isn't the CC build at all, he even calls a niche build.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Talandar said:

@MrSmokestack
But that doesn't explain why he recommends +Spd and L&D on the A-slot of all things. I do acknowledge the CC+Vantage set but what is he trying to showcase here? That isn't the CC build at all, he even calls a niche build.

The +Spd for regular Blárblade. I am lumping Close Counter with Blárblade because I do not think it warrants own section. I will separate it if it pleases you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This analysis is nice, you managed to cover all of his builds nice and simple. Meanwhile my Ayra thread is like a big lump of explanations at the moment. I think you should elaborate on the "Super Saiyan" mode lol,  people might not understand why it's so damn powerful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NOTE: Apart from the below, the guide is great. I think it's pretty well done. It's just 1p problem I have with it.

Okay serious question:

Why is Blarblade there? It's not a good idea. Like, I can personally understand meme builds that are useful, but Reinhardt is the worst blade cavalry in the game, you even say it yourself. Not to mention that the build is only even useful due to how broken Blarblade is, he doesn't have exclusivity bonus like Leo and Cecilia, and his increased attack is matched by Cecilia anyways, who also has more speed.

A lot of the time, Dire Thunder has more performance than Blarblade because he has a positional advantage with Dire Thunder, whereas Blarblade forces him into an uncomfortable deathball. L&D Reinhardt also doesn't even break 28 Neutral speed, while we have chaarcters like Arvis and Leo who are declared horrible Blade users(Not horrible units, just bad at being broken)... and Arvis has 31 speed, which is somehow too low, while Rein only reaches that with a LAD speed boon. oh boy.

If anything, there should be a BlarOwl+ baiting build. It's not useful, but it has a niche that is best fulfilled by Reinhardt vs. Olwen and Ursula, so it has that going for it. I'd suggest either CC with +Def forge, or DD3 with +Res forge. He at least makes sense while doing that since it fits the statline perfectly: High attack, mediocre defenses, lolspeed.

Edited by warriorman222

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, warriorman222 said:

NOTE: Apart from the below, the guide is great. I think it's pretty well done. It's just 1p problem I have with it.

Okay serious question:

Why is Blarblade there? It's not a good idea. Like, I can personally understand meme builds that are useful, but Reinhardt is the worst blade cavalry in the game, you even say it yourself. Not to mention that the build is only even useful due to how broken Blarblade is, he doesn't have exclusivity bonus like Leo and Cecilia, and his increased attack is matched by Cecilia anyways, who also has more speed.

A lot of the time, Dire Thunder has more performance than Blarblade because he has a positional advantage with Dire Thunder, whereas Blarblade forces him into an uncomfortable deathball. L&D Reinhardt also doesn't even break 28 Neutral speed, while we have chaarcters like Arvis and Leo who are declared horrible Blade users(Not horrible units, just bad at being broken)... and Arvis has 31 speed, which is somehow too low, while Rein only reaches that with a LAD speed boon. oh boy.

If anything, there should be a BlarOwl+ baiting build. It's not useful, but it has a niche that is best fulfilled by Reinhardt vs. Olwen and Ursula, so it has that going for it. I'd suggest either CC with +Def forge, or DD3 with +Res forge. He at least makes sense while doing that since it fits the statline perfectly: High attack, mediocre defenses, lolspeed.

Blarblade+ is still an option, especially considering Reinhardt can reach 51 Atk and 40 Spd after horse emblem buffs, which is not bad at all especially after those buffs are added to combat, so I think it's completely fine to include it even if Reinhardt is not the best Bladetome user. In fact most mages on horses have a specialty with Bladetomes since they get to use the horse emblem +6 buffs to their advantage. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Talandar said:

Uh, you should go more into detail with that one because it's quite the bold statement. In comparision to his standard set and Blarraven build I don't see how Reinhardt is supposed be better as a -blade cavalier, especially if he competes with his sister who has much better Spd for that role (he caps at 40 Spd and that's after Hone Cavalry, L&D and Spd+3 seal which is enormous investment).

1 hour ago, warriorman222 said:

Why is Blarblade there? It's not a good idea.

If you are a whale or like Reinhardt as a character, Blárblade is probably better than Dire Thunder on a triple or full cavalry team since he will be sticking with his team most of the time. With full cavalry buffs, Blárblade Reinhardt outperforms Dire Thunder Reinhardt. Here are some numbers you can replicate with the calculator if you want to check it out. The investment is high, but Blárblade gives Reinhardt the best performance.

Reinhardt +Atk -Def
Dire Thunder, Moonbow
Death Blow, Lancebreaker
Quickened Pulse
6/6/6/6
Player Phase 180:4:11
Player Phase [Merge+10] 174:7:14
Player Phase [Reinhardt+0, Enemies+10] 166:13:16

Reinhardt +Spd -Def
Blárblade, Moonbow
Life and Death, Lancebreaker
Speed +3
6/6/6/6
Player Phase 185:5:5
Player Phase [Merge+10] 180:5:10
Player Phase [Reinhardt+0, Enemies+10] 166:8:21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, XRay said:

The +Spd for regular Blárblade. I am lumping Close Counter with Blárblade because I do not think it warrants own section. I will separate it if it pleases you.

Yeah, this would be good.
They use the same weapon, but these Reinhardt are different in use. One is more EP focused with Vantage and trying to one-shot as much as possible the other is what you would call a 'normal' -blade user. Not to mention they need different boon/banes and seals for that purpose.

Maybe add Glimmer to the Blade builds? It is a viable alternative to Moonbow and can guarantee some kills without having full buffs. +Atk Reinhardt with only Hone Cavalier and no boosting A passive kills Nino and DC Effie with Glimmer proc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Talandar said:

Yeah, this would be good.
They use the same weapon, but these Reinhardt are different in use. One is more EP focused with Vantage and trying to one-shot as much as possible the other is what you would call a 'normal' -blade user. Not to mention they need different boon/banes and seals for that purpose.

Maybe add Glimmer to the Blade builds? It is a viable alternative to Moonbow and can guarantee some kills without having full buffs. +Atk Reinhardt with only Hone Cavalier and no boosting A passive kills Nino and DC Effie with Glimmer proc.

Good point. Actually, I will replace Moonbow with Glimmer. I just checked on the calculator, and with full cavalry buffs, Glimmer gets more kills when I set both cool down to 0.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice thread. I think it's ironic that you and my both did a blue mage that goes on an emblem team and has 4 builds.

But you can have two of these threads? I thought you could have one of these. After all, @Ice Dragon made it sound like you could only have one of these threads.

Edited by Poimagic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Poimagic said:

But you can have two of these threads? I thought you could have one of these. After all, @Ice Dragon made it sound like you could only have one of these threads.

I'm currently limiting reservations to one at a time, but I don't have a problem with anyone starting a second after finishing their first. Basically, "finish what you've started before starting something else".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Poimagic said:

But you can have two of these threads?

I got three. I think I will stop at three for now though. I may do another one on Olivia if no one else does it within a few days, so I can get my whole Arena team out there.

I think I will write about Dancers/Singers or work any missing ones that people have not done next. I will also do Setsuna too if she is not out yet; she was my first archer nuke and I do not want to leave her out after I have done BB!Cordelia and BH!Lyn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

@XRay

I'd suggest a mention of Swordbreaker as an option for the Dire Thunder build as a means of specifically targeting Sigurd for deletion.

Alright, will do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd love to suggest Darting Blow 3 as a budget option for Blade Reinhardt especially if he's +SPD...

With that, he can hit 45 SPD upon initiation; this can be attained with the combo of +3 SPD seal, Hone and Goad Cav.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Frosty said:

I'd love to suggest Darting Blow 3 as a budget option for Blade Reinhardt especially if he's +SPD...

With that, he can hit 45 SPD upon initiation; this can be attained with the combo of +3 SPD seal, Hone and Goad Cav.

Alright, I will add that in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heavy Blade 3 can be a fun option for seal slot since Reinhardt can end up spamming Moonbow or Glimmer, especially if he has a cavalier ally providing him with Hone Cavalry buffs. Plus, since it's a 240 SP cost skill, it can help him boost his Arena score slightly depending on what other skills he has. It may also make Aether less of a liability as a skill should he run that for Arena scoring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Heavy Blade 3 can be a fun option for seal slot since Reinhardt can end up spamming Moonbow or Glimmer, especially if he has a cavalier ally providing him with Hone Cavalry buffs. Plus, since it's a 240 SP cost skill, it can help him boost his Arena score slightly depending on what other skills he has. It may also make Aether less of a liability as a skill should he run that for Arena scoring.

I will add it in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bowbreaker in Slot B is viable, and notably lets him handle most variants of brave lyn on enemy phase. (being able to bait out the other metagame defining hero with 3 move + 2 range is quite nice)

Draw Back is an option for the support slot. 

Wings of Mercy on a unit with 3 move and desperation on a unit with such low speed looks kinds of...sketchy, tbh. Don't know why I would ever run either or those options over a ~breaker skill in slot B.

Edited by Shoblongoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Bowbreaker in Slot B is viable, and notably lets him handle most variants of brave lyn on enemy phase. (being able to bait out the other metagame defining hero with 3 move + 2 range is quite nice)

A properly built BH!Lyn with +Atk or Attack +3 utilizing Brave Bow kills Reinhardt in one volley.

6 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Draw Back is an option for the support slot. 

Most players prefer Reposition. I will add in flexible Assist for those who do not like Reposition.

6 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Wings of Mercy on a unit with 3 move and desperation on a unit with such low speed looks kinds of...sketchy, tbh. Don't know why I would ever run either or those options over a ~breaker skill in slot B.

Wings of Mercy-Reposition allows Reinhardt to be an emergency support unit. Wings of Mercy also gives a higher score than Breakers. Desperation is used in conjunction with Brash Assault when using Dire Thunder, not by itself. Reinhardt has decent enough Speed to run Desperation if you Speed stack for Blárblade.

Edited by XRay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, XRay said:

A properly built BH!Lyn with +Atk or Attack +3 utilizing Brave Bow kills Reinhardt in one volley.

Most players prefer Reposition. I will add in flexible Assist for those who do not like Reposition.

Wings of Mercy-Reposition allows Reinhardt to be an emergency support unit. Wings of Mercy also gives a higher score than Breakers. Desperation is used in conjunction with Brash Assault when using Dire Thunder, not by itself. Reinhardt has decent enough Speed to run Desperation if you Speed stack for Blárblade.

Only variant of brave lyn I've seen that can straight one-round Reindhardt with bowbreaker up is the brave bow + quicken pulse + moonbow build.

Lancebreaker is admittedly more useful overall, but that's something. 

I'm sure wings of mercy has its situational uses, and arena score isn't the worst reason in the world to run an otherwise questionable skill (I have rally def/res on mine purely for the extra arena points. Reposition are Draw Back makes for a strictly better unit...but points).

Reinhardt isn't exactly strapped for mobility without it, so the utility is pretty marginal. And doubling + not getting doubled against otherwise troublesome units just seems like such a better use of a skill slot. 

I guess if you're running the barblade set--yeah, that makes a bit more sense.

On the standard dire thunder, I wouldn't run anything other than a ~breaker.
 

Edited by Shoblongoo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Only variant of brave lyn I've seen that can straight one-round Reindhardt with bowbreaker up is the brave bow + quicken pulse + moonbow build.

Most BH!Lyns I see run Brave Bow. She also generally has Hone Cavalry buff from her allies, so I do not think giving Reinhardt Bowbreaker is a good idea unless he can handle all versions of BH!Lyn.

7 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

I'm sure wings of mercy has its situational uses

Wings of Mercy-Reposition works great on teams with Desperation allies. Reinhardt can strike out on his own on the other side of the map and then teleport back to his teammates and get them out of enemy range. It also reduces the Dancer's/Singer's workload. Generally speaking, what Reinhardt cannot kill in two hits should generally be handled by his teammates. Lancebreaker is okay, but Lance units I see usually die to Reinhardt in two hits anyways and ones that do survive generally run Distant Counter to counter kill Reinhardt with Ridersbane or a Special activation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...