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Shoblongoo

Pokemon Draft League: Battling Thread

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7 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

Sorry--got called into the office yesterday and a bunch of stuff came up at the last second. 

...looks like @Nym @Michelaar, @X-Naut, and @Ether still have to go too.

Lets try to get this wrapped up in the next few days and move onto Round #3. 

I can take a rain check for any night this week. You around tonight or tomorrow @DisobeyedCargo

I've got work and a buttload of homework tonight. Maybe tommorow...

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16 hours ago, Deltre said:

...yeah...I'm definitely voting [ban Kyurem-B] if we do this again

This is the first draft I've ever played where it wasn't banned and I wasn't really sold on it being banworthy it my prior drafts (always voted against banning it and was always on the losing side of the vote). But seeing it now; the number of things it 1-v-1s and just straight up invalidates via raw stats is pretty egregious. 

@Deltre was asking me why I didn't bring Toxicroak and Rotom-M in our match.

800 pound gorilla in the room: Earth Power + Ice Beam Kyurem-B outspeeds and OHKOs both of them. Using those 'mons would have made my team untenably vulnerable to Kyurem having free reign to force switches and punch holes.  

The threat of Kyurem-B showing up and doing to me what it did do @Emerson basically forced me to build my entire team on being able to check Kyurem 
 

  • An entire offensive line at or above the 317 speed tier + armed with effective damage, to pressure it offensively (ffs--I was running dazzling gleam on foucs sash Azelf, just in case Kyurem popped up as the lead) 
  • In the event that webs went up and Kyurem became faster than my grounded attackers; Porygon2 was there out of necessity just to ensure I had something that could reliably switch in and beat Kyurem defensively. 

    The result of adequately preparing for Kyurem-B was that when it didn't show up, I was underprepared for other threats.

    The result of not adequately preparing for Kyurem-B and just putting together an all-around solid team is...well...that @Deltre  v. @Emerson battle we just saw.

    @Emerson up 5-1, then unboosted Kyurem comes out and just singlehandedly takes out 5/6ths of a team. 

    Thats kinda silly. 
25 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

I've got work and a buttload of homework tonight. Maybe tommorow...

kk. I should be on tomorrow night.

Edited by Shoblongoo

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@Michelaar  I'll try to throw something together today and if you're not available late afternoon/evening my time then I'll be available tomorrow until 4pm EST.

Also @Shoblongoo how about updatintg the OP with W/L, scores and replays?

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4 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

...yeah...I'm definitely voting [ban Kyurem-B] if we do this again

This is the first draft I've ever played where it wasn't banned and I wasn't really sold on it being banworthy it my prior drafts (always voted against banning it and was always on the losing side of the vote). But seeing it now; the number of things it 1-v-1s and just straight up invalidates via raw stats is pretty egregious. 

@Deltre was asking me why I didn't bring Toxicroak and Rotom-M in our match.

800 pound gorilla in the room: Earth Power + Ice Beam Kyurem-B outspeeds and OHKOs both of them. Using those 'mons would have made my team untenably vulnerable to Kyurem having free reign to force switches and punch holes.  

The threat of Kyurem-B showing up and doing to me what it did do @Emerson basically forced me to build my entire team on being able to check Kyurem 
 

  • An entire offensive line at or above the 317 speed tier + armed with effective damage, to pressure it offensively (ffs--I was running dazzling gleam on foucs sash Azelf, just in case Kyurem popped up as the lead) 
  • In the event that webs went up and Kyurem became faster than my grounded attackers; Porygon2 was there out of necessity just to ensure I had something that could reliably switch in and beat Kyurem defensively. 

    The result of adequately preparing for Kyurem-B was that when it didn't show up, I was underprepared for other threats.

    The result of not adequately preparing for Kyurem-B and just putting together an all-around solid team is...well...that @Deltre  v. @Emerson battle we just saw.

    @Emerson up 5-1, then unboosted Kyurem comes out and just singlehandedly takes out 5/6ths of a team. 

    Thats kinda silly. 

kk. I should be on tomorrow night.

Bruh. Come on man. You're killing me here. 
 

No offense to @Emersonof course, but he choked. It happens. It doesn't mean he sucks, far from it. I choked earlier in the game by risking Scizor and it bit me in the ass hard for the rest of the game, especially when you realize that SD just won once Volcanion was weakened/KO'd. You choked by prepping too hard for one specific threat. I choked by prepping too hard for Zapdos (had Z Rock Lando this game) and look what happened vs. Mawile. But not for the fact that he let me Force Palm Mawile at the end (not expecting Tailwind I guess?) he had the game. And even then he could have danced around Tailwind and won with Freeze Dry/Ice Beam into Hydro Vortex + my own LO Recoil. Not to even mention other options that could have been used like Steelvally, Ferrothorn (expecting Earth Power), or Machamp. Or Stealth Rock in general. Stealth Rock doesn't care about defensive stats after all. 

If we want to talk bans for next time I'm all for it. There's plenty of things that could afford to be looked at rn and I won't lie and say we shouldn't even consider talking about KB, even if it is waaaaay down the list. Your reasoning sounds an awful lot like an excuse though (I only lost because x!) and the implication that I only won because of broken mon and that Emerson could do nothing about it (especially given how well he was playing) is kinda insulting to the both of us ngl. Let's not ignore the fact that even if KB got 6 KOs, Mawile still got 5. That's just what happens with 2 strong breakers facing off against Offense.

Bottom line, there was a lot that both you and he could have done differently, but didn't. Among many things, you didn't need to prep as hard as you did for KB. Hera and Yama always take a hit. Yache, Wacan, and Shucca Berry lures can be used. Emerson could have saved Cryo at the end and stalled Tailwind. I think he thought I was Sub Kyurem (correct me if I'm wrong) which is why he sacked Mawile without going for Sucker, but that could have been saved for Sucker Punch mindgames too. I also don't think (again, correct me if I'm wrong) he expected Tailwind to come out there, which gave me an opening to Roost. If Volc had been able to survive Turn 1, it would have done a shit load to KB right then and there, forcing a Roost much sooner and possibly letting Mawile in again (seriously, that thing is horrifying). I don't want to give a turn by turn rn but there was a lot more that went into winning that besides clicking buttons, especially after Scizor got smoked. 

If anything, I think we should reduce the number of picks next time, and then talk about bans. 2 OU 3 UU 3 RU 3 NU 4 PU or something like that. Maybe tweak it a little, but basically, smaller pools means tighter prep. That and I've noticed that a lot of the games so far have been OU picks + filler (guilty of this myself to an extent). 

 

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tbh I have no idea why I didn't Sucker Punch with Mawile onto Kyurem. I really should've but I didn't.

Kyurem itself wasn't the issue, I just kind of blanked at the end and ended up just wasting Mawile and Cryo.

Also why I didn't even attempt to flinch with Dark Pulse is beyond me, I knew Hydro Vortex wouldn't kill from 50%.

Edited by Emerson

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I agree with Deltre, just because a mon sweeps teams does not mean it's broken. Kyu-B has multiple exploitable weaknesses: sub-optimal attacking options, no setup moves, a middling Speed tier, a Stealth Rock weakness, and Dragon/Ice has other huge holes defensively too. It's definitely a pain to defend against and getting it in on offensive teams can secure a kill, but some walls can stand up to it and teams that don't have one can revenge kill it.

Also @Michelaar I'm built now so if you wanna go ping me and I'll be on PS

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4 hours ago, X-Naut said:

@Michelaar ...Can you be on tomorrow morning? (afternoon your time) Or a bit after

Today i'm off to the zoo, tomorrow should be good

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5 hours ago, Michelaar said:

Today i'm off to the zoo, tomorrow should be good

Bleh. Tomorrow I won't be available until 3:30pm or later, the morning's no good for me with work.

I'll be on though, so if that's not too late for you it can work.

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3 hours ago, X-Naut said:

Bleh. Tomorrow I won't be available until 3:30pm or later, the morning's no good for me with work.

I'll be on though, so if that's not too late for you it can work.

I'm available at this moment and I will be now for quite a while.

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58 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

I'm available at this moment and I will be now for quite a while.

I'm here now, let's get it over with

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23 minutes ago, X-Naut said:

I'm here now, let's get it over with

Yup send me the invite, Name's Michelaar.

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