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Regarding the Sanaki controversy.

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@eclipse suggested that all discussion of Bride Sanaki and the controversy surrounding her should be moved to here, so here I am.

As for my own two cents, I'm just shocked at how controversial the whole situation is. I believe this is the largest controversy surrounding a single unit the game has ever had (outmatching even Ayragate) and a lot of toxicity has been thrown around on both sides. As for where I stand, I don't exactly approve of it for the reasons stated in the locked thread by several people, but I also feel that the backlash is almost completely unjustified, as the seasonal banners are supposed to be all about heroes in cosplay.

Another thing worth noting is how we are pretty much playing out Sanaki's character arc: (FE9/FE10 spoilers in the textbox)

Spoiler

A very large number of people use their platforms to abuse others in Sanaki's name without her ever giving even a hint of approval. This causes a massive-scale conflicts between all sides involved, threatening to destroy Serenes Forest. At this point, despite her protests, Sanaki is powerless to intervene. Time passes with the situation getting worse and worse, until the conflict boils over, causing the divine being of order Ashera Eclipse to petrify the entire battlefield, such that no-one could act, and therefore no-one could perpetuate the conflict.

I guess history really does like to repeat itself, huh?

Anyway, I hope that people's thoughts on the issue can be discussed in a civil manner.

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I didn't even realize that there was controversy. I don't really care either way.

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The way I see it, these Heroes costumes are more of a "for fun" thing. They don't actually mean anything, or at least they usually don't. It's the same thing as the bunny suits, Christmas outfits, alternate classes, Valentine's, other Bridals, etc. Sanaki's just dressed up for the fun of it, she's not actually getting married to anyone.

The Bride class first appeared in Awakening, where it really is much of the same thing. Sure, you can give the Bride class to some woman that's been married off (I gave it to Lissa, who is my spouse in the game), or you can give it to someone unmarried for the skills, stats, and/or weapons.

It's just a for fun thing. Yes, she's young, but guess what? You can do the same thing to her in Awakening :D

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Well, she is a Branded. A few years probably doesn't mean very much for them in terms of physical growth.

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20 minutes ago, KnightOfNohr said:

Well, she is a Branded. A few years probably doesn't mean very much for them in terms of physical growth.

I don't recalled Sanaki being a Branded. Due to Fire Emblem genetics, only Micaiah is one.

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I think, for me, my issue was always with the people who made the decision. It just felt wrong to include her on such a banner with so many other viable, adult options. There were other banners that would have made more sense, and imagine how much nicer it would have been if Anna had been on the banner instead, as everyone had predicted. I'll continue to find the decision creepy, personally, and don't want to be anywhere near Bride Sanaki. I don't care that she's playing dress up in the ingame universe - that was never the issue for me (although some of her lines are still a bit gross to me anyway). 

I don't agree with any of the insults thrown at the people who like Sanaki's art or find or cute, or even who want her for the unit type she is, however. There's nothing wrong with that at all, and a lot of the mud slinging went way too far. I hope future discussions will be much more civil, but when such an emotional topic is in play, it's unlikely... 

Edited by Cute Chao

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41 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

I don't recalled Sanaki being a Branded. Due to Fire Emblem genetics, only Micaiah is one.

Yup, she isn't. Branded marrying Beorc can make Branded or Beorc, and Beorc of Branded ancestry have the chance of producing Branded as well (Zelgius sounds like one of these).

It's important Sanaki isn't Branded, since if she were, she'd be able to hear the voices of the Goddesses, Sacrifice, read hearts, everything Micaiah can do. And that she can't do anything an Apostle is supposed to do when Micaiah can is a core part of her mini Part 4 character arc.

 

As for Sanaki (I accidentally first wrote Micaiah) as bride, there were better options and I don't see why they had to choose her unless as a flower girl. Although a wedding gown isn't totally out of line with what she normally wears so I can see them basing the choice to include her off that. But I'm not going to wade too deep into this water.

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...people pick the weirdest things to get upset over...

Child bride implications notwithstanding--its at least a modest and tasteful piece of attire.

Meanwhile, Halloween Nowi legit looks like she's working a stripper pole.  

Edited by Shoblongoo

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honestly I think this whole controversy is a bit much. I mean I understand where people are coming from cause y'know it is a 10 year old girl in a wedding dress but honestly it doesn't bother me at all. Especially when you've watched enough anime with as much loli sexualization to fill a police department. Really to me it's just a cute girl in a pretty dress. I do realize the implications but really when you have characters like holloween nowi and summer elise in the same game there's not much I need to be complaining about.

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She was 10 in PoR and 13 in RD IIRC.

Is there a particular reason why everyone is assuming this is the PoR version, or does it just sound more dramatic to say "10 year old girl in a wedding dress." 

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1 minute ago, Shoblongoo said:

She was 10 in PoR and 13 in RD IIRC.

Is there a particular reason why everyone is assuming this is the PoR version, or does it just sound more dramatic to say "10 year old girl in a wedding dress." 

I think its the hair. In RD she has long hairs but in both POR and the bridal version Sanaki's hairs are shorter. Though I doubt Sanaki being 13 rather than 10 is going to change any minds. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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9 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

She was 10 in PoR and 13 in RD IIRC.

Is there a particular reason why everyone is assuming this is the PoR version, or does it just sound more dramatic to say "10 year old girl in a wedding dress." 

Her description said that this is in fact the POR version.

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27 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I doubt Sanaki being 13 rather than 10 is going to change any minds. 

...I mean married at 13 is not particularly egregious in a pre-industrial feudal society...

Especially in the context of a girl of Sanaki's station, whose marriage at earliest childbearing age would be more-or-less expected in any Begnion-like empire to secure maximal use of fertile years for proliferation of the royal bloodline. And whose marriage would moreover carry heavy political implications, and be seen as an important tool of public policy for building strong alliances. (the whole institution of marriage in its earliest, most primitive tribal form was just a way to formally unite family-exclusive, kinship-based social structures in such a way that a familial sense of loyalty survived the joinder. i.e. Clan A and Clan B are weaker then Clan C. Clan A has a son. Clan B has a daughter. Through this new-fangled thing called marriage, Clan A and Clan B merge into Clan AB.  Clan AB is now stronger than Clan C)

I would have called bullshit if they had given her the Nowi treatment. That is to say--if they had made the wedding dress gratuitously skimpy and revealing in utter disregard for Sanaki's established character as a ceremoniously adorned, dignified figure, just for the sake of marketing her as a sexy loli to the element of the fanbase thats drawn in by that.

But they (thankfully) didn't go that direction. They showed a restrained hand.   

And the aesthetics of what they produced comes off as sufficiently ceremonious and regal to fit with Sanaki's character.

I'm fine with it. 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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The only thing to be upset over is the fact that you can't say you like Sanaki without getting labelled a pedophile by people anymore.

Otherwise, I think @Shoblongoo put it best:

2 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

...people pick the weirdest things to get upset over...

 

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This post from Reddit explains my thoughts better than I ever would have been able to.

1hRJEr4.png

I'm not outraged, exactly, but I am quite disappointed. And I really wish that even if people don't take issue with it, they'd at least try to understand, try to see from the perspective of those who do take issue with it instead of hurling insults everywhere. You can understand without agreeing. If people were willing to do that this situation probably would have been a whole lot more peaceful.

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You know what--I wasn't even going to use the bridal sanaki I just pulled yesterday for anything other than the upcoming Tempest Trials. 

...but now...just for the lulz...
 

 

 

 


Related image
Image result for fe heroes bridal sanaki injured

 

 

 


^^^ this S-Support is happening

 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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I can't bring myself to care because I don't play Heroes, but you'd think they might realise the optics might not be the greatest.

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I... don't think I could care much less. The outfits are for fun and mean nothing *cough*bunnyoutfits*cough*

I feel like people getting upset over this is really... unnecessary. Like, people bring up "there are actual child brides" and the thing is, if that's an issue you're concerned about, focus on that, an actual issue over something like virtual waifu brides, a non-issue. It seems pointless to be upset about and I bet you that people can spend their time better addressing issues that matter. :/

But that's just my two-cents~ *throws glitter and vanishes*

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The way I see it, people are just seeing the negative implications that aren't there and getting mad because of it. Sanaki only wanted to participate in a festival, if you did the paralogue you'd know.

 

Stop getting mad at video games

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2 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

Especially in the context of a girl of Sanaki's station, whose marriage at earliest childbearing age would be more-or-less expected in any Begnion-like empire to secure maximal use of fertile years for proliferation of the royal bloodline. And whose marriage would moreover carry heavy political implications, and be seen as an important tool of public policy for building strong alliances.

We actually know such child marriage exist in Begnion. Astrid was to marry Lekain and she sure wasn't an adult by the time of POR. So maybe Sanaki's off marrying Veltome?

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here's my two cents,

I don't care, there are other things that are more important to worry about, like if I'm going to pass this summer class, or like how Steam has been removing visual novels, European social climate and etc.

I mean Sanaki's art is really conservative to the likes or Nowi and S!Elise, which I barely heard anything about when she came out

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From all the Tellius characters they could have chosen they went out of their way to choose Sanaki. They could have gone for Elincia or if she's not popular enough (I honestly don't know how popular she is in the CYL) they could have gone with Mia or Nephenee. Those two could have been funny bride characters at the very least.

Sanaki has no romantic partners or interactions that would give you the idea that she has romantic feelings for some one and I'd say that she's a stronger character for it. A bride outfit really doesn't fit her.

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Don't play Heroes, so take my opinion for whatever it's worth.

If I were to look at Bridal Sanaki in isolation, I'd be more willing to accept the excuse of "oh, she's just playing pretend". However, when I look at what IS have been doing ever since Awakening, with characters like Nowi, Elise, and Sakura, it's hard to think of this as just innocent fun. I think all this talk about it just being a festival is missing the wider historical context of what IS has been doing and who they seem to be making these games for now.

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1 hour ago, Shuuda said:

when I look at what IS have been doing ever since Awakening, with characters like Nowi, Elise, and Sakura, it's hard to think of this as just innocent fun. I think all this talk about it just being a festival is missing the wider historical context of what IS has been doing and who they seem to be making these games for now.

...oh that's absolutely going on...

In a much broader sense--looking at the marketing strategy IS has been using to push the Fire Emblem franchise from the niche market it held back in the pre-Awakening era to its modern incarnation of broader appeal and economic success--they've found their bigger, more profitable market in otaku culture. And their method for honing in on it has been to unsubtly load the newer games with all the things that appeal to otaku fetishes. (maids, tsundres, stalkers, lolis...)

That ship has sailed. And to the extent that old veterans from the age when FE was more of a conservative sword & sorcery fantasy setting remain fans of the franchise, I think we just have to accept that this is the new reality of Fire Emblem. 

My attitude towards that whole marketing angle right now is it-is-what it-is and I can accept it, as long as:

1)  The quality of gameplay and storytelling doesn't decline, and the otaku stuff remains a supplement for rather than a replacement to the essential gameplay and story elements of classic fire emblem. (Heroes has been pretty good about delivering consistent updates and expansions with quality F2P content, so I'm willing to give them a pretty wide breadth here)   

2) IS doesn't start retroactively ruining old staples by presenting them in a way contrary to their established backstory and character, for the sake of turning them into dating sim fodder. (i.e. I don't ever want to see something like a maid Clarine, or a performing arts Florina, or a skimpy bikini La'Rachel. Clarine's established character is that she treats everyone else as HER maid--she's not doing that shit herself. Florina's established character is that she's too shy to even talk to most of her male companions. La'Rachel's established character is that she reacts to Ephraim's exposed shoulder like he just flashed his junk. Don't break character.) 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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