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DefyingFates

Book IV Official Speculation & Discussion Thread

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1 hour ago, SirErrant said:

Yeah, I guess that ship sailed a while ago. At least you can see they've been trying with the Freyja map last month and the Freyr map this month, so maybe there's still hope for the future?

As far as maps go, I really do hope that shot of the modern world from the Part 2 trailer actually does become a series of maps. ūüėĄ

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On 8/29/2020 at 2:56 PM, Sentinel07 said:

As far as maps go, I really do hope that shot of the modern world from the Part 2 trailer actually does become a series of maps. ūüėĄ

...speaking of which, isn't Alfonse supposed to have a nightmare where he's sucked into a world with skyscrapers (presumably our world)? I'd really like to see that happen.

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On 9/3/2020 at 4:51 PM, SirErrant said:

...speaking of which, isn't Alfonse supposed to have a nightmare where he's sucked into a world with skyscrapers (presumably our world)? I'd really like to see that happen.

That's what I was talking about, the modern world nightmare from the Part 2 trailer.

I really hope there are maps on that and not just a trailer thing.

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Well, that was a heavy chapter. I don't think I can recall a time when all 5 chapter segments had significant story bits, not to mention no dialogue at all from the banner units.

Honestly, it's much better this way. A lot more progress was made.

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Omg omg omg

Please PLEASE tell me that IS isn't implying that the below spoiler is true

Spoiler

Are Kiran and Alfonse the same person? WAS ALFONSE FROM EARTH ALL ALONG??
And was FEH...all just one big dream?

 

Edited by MilodicMellodi

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20 minutes ago, MilodicMellodi said:

Omg omg omg

Please PLEASE tell me that IS isn't implying that the below spoiler is true

  Reveal hidden contents

Are Kiran and Alfonse the same person? WAS ALFONSE FROM EARTH ALL ALONG??
And was FEH...all just one big dream?

 

Spoiler

i think what he is saying, is that he and everyone else is the dream of Kiran

 

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1 hour ago, Hilda said:
  Reveal hidden contents

i think what he is saying, is that he and everyone else is the dream of Kiran

 

Spoiler

Omg...then everything is starting to make more sense now, in a way.

Veronica's and Bruno's bouts of supposed insanity were because she was "the villain". As the story stops being about her, she not-so-subtly stops going insane and even helps Askr.

Surtr burning Gunnthra could've been related something that the Summoner experienced in real life, with his own parents. He may have been raised in an abusive household, which is why he's so withdrawn and removed from sight to the point that during the rare times he appears to us, he never takes his hood off at all.

Speaking of Gunnthra, she herself says that Breidablik has the power to "control the worlds". There's a point being that Kiran can summon any version of any hero or villain from any of the game universes, but adding in the dream aspect combined with the fact that only the Summoner can use it...

The Rite of Blades mentions how "When the flames, as foretold, lick the land, Askr the seal shall break". And it just so happens that, despite how the Summoner is mentioned in dialogue, he never has a real role to play in the story after Book 2 other than killing Hel. And as we know, he disappears in Book 4. It's almost like it was all intentional...the story completely focused more and more on the Askr Trio because the "seal" on Askr had broken, and the world was unraveling. The dream world was unraveling, and as a result the Summoner became more removed from the main plot of the story.

I know I'm overthinking all this, but there's so many things that I'm thinking about now about the story.

 

Edited by MilodicMellodi

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30 minutes ago, MilodicMellodi said:
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Omg...then everything is starting to make more sense now, in a way.

Veronica's and Bruno's bouts of supposed insanity were because she was "the villain". As the story stops being about her, she not-so-subtly stops going insane and even helps Askr.

Surtr burning Gunnthra could've been related something that the Summoner experienced in real life, with his own parents. He may have been raised in an abusive household, which is why he's so withdrawn and removed from sight to the point that during the rare times he appears to us, he never takes his hood off at all.

Speaking of Gunnthra, she herself says that Breidablik has the power to "control the worlds". There's a point being that Kiran can summon any version of any hero or villain from any of the game universes, but adding in the dream aspect combined with the fact that only the Summoner can use it...

The Rite of Blades mentions how "When the flames, as foretold, lick the land, Askr the seal shall break". And it just so happens that, despite how the Summoner is mentioned in dialogue, he never has a real role to play in the story after Book 2 other than killing Hel. And as we know, he disappears in Book 4. It's almost like it was all intentional...the story completely focused more and more on the Askr Trio because the "seal" on Askr had broken, and the world was unraveling. The dream world was unraveling, and as a result the Summoner became more removed from the main plot of the story.

I know I'm overthinking all this, but there's so many things that I'm thinking about now about the story.

 

That's a nice theory, personally I interpreted it as the dream part being only book 4. Nightmares and Alfar exist in the dream world. So perhaps book 4 is happening in their dreams. Kiran is not with them maybe because he is not dreaming or he is in another dream in a way similar to Anna being a squirrel (squirrel Anna as a beast unit when IS?). 

This chapter was really good, all 5 segments had a story dialogue and offered something. Really like where the story is going, Sharena having a breakdown realising she might be a changeling and Triandra's sister and Peony might be Alfonse's sister, I think that's the case. Plumeria fighting for herself and not only because boss said so, fighting to keep living as a dream was a nice way to end her. I am still not sure where Freyja is going, I think she is trying to cause them turmoil to make them feel how she did. Next chapter might focus on Triandra and then the final chapter will be Freyja. 

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The chapter is out, guys. Really don't think we need the spoiler tags.

Anyway.

@Hilda

Nice theory.

@MilodicMellodi

I don't think it's that complicated. Each book is pretty self-contained. I think what Hilda meant is that everything that has happened IN BOOK 4 was Kiran's dream. I'm not entirely sure of that, though.

 

It's hard to say where they're going with this since the ending didn't divulge much. I'm glad that they took the time to develop their characters more in this one, though. Pretty much everyone got development: Freyja is losing it even more than she was before with those weird sanity-swings, Sharena's whole changeling thing was developed A LOT, Mirabilis' childhood was brought to light (ironically, when regular Ilyana was introduced into the summoning pool), Alfonse applied his problem-solving skills and good critical thinking to the situation, Kiran was mentioned again (honestly, I think he's just in a different dream which Alfonse will jump into in the next chapter), and Anna got to be a squirrel. Oh, and Peony's favorite thing ever is listening to people's dreams. ... I kind of want a scientist alt of her now, as a researcher in the field of sleep study. Anyway.

Yeah, it was a good chapter.

Also, book 3 was about death. Book 4 is about dreams. Of course the wake would follow the funeral. (Haaaaaaa-)

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I also loved how every part of the chapter had a ton of substance. Hopefully this is the trend going forward, at least for the rest of Book 4! I like that we got Mirabilis' backstory as well and Sharena's breakdown was really interesting, but now that she herself has started thinking she's a changeling I fear we're going to get a cop-out about her being the real Sharena all along. Otherwise I liked Freyja taunting everyone throughout until she snapped near the end about wanting them to suffer and just how shaken Sharena was by the news. I was curious what Alfonse meant at the end, but

3 hours ago, Hilda said:
  Hide contents

i think what he is saying, is that he and everyone else is the dream of Kiran

 

Makes sense. I wonder if this is indeed the case? It'd potentially the "real world" portion of the second trailer too, if that's where everyone needs to go to escape.

1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

and Anna got to be a squirrel

A small thing, but I like that they explored Anna's money grubbing habits in the main story. All in all, this was a fantastic chapter!

1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

Also, book 3 was about death. Book 4 is about dreams. Of course the wake would follow the funeral. (Haaaaaaa-)

You got me with this one, well played xD

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6 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I also loved how every part of the chapter had a ton of substance. Hopefully this is the trend going forward, at least for the rest of Book 4! I like that we got Mirabilis' backstory as well and Sharena's breakdown was really interesting, but now that she herself has started thinking she's a changeling I fear we're going to get a cop-out about her being the real Sharena all along. Otherwise I liked Freyja taunting everyone throughout until she snapped near the end about wanting them to suffer and just how shaken Sharena was by the news. I was curious what Alfonse meant at the end, but

Makes sense. I wonder if this is indeed the case? It'd potentially the "real world" portion of the second trailer too, if that's where everyone needs to go to escape.

A small thing, but I like that they explored Anna's money grubbing habits in the main story. All in all, this was a fantastic chapter!

You got me with this one, well played xD

I feel certain that at least SOMETHING happened with Sharena, even if they go the route of her not being a changeling.

It would feel anticlimactic and kind of a waste if that whole story lead to absolutely nothing but brief angst for Sharena.

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I think Kiran might be dreaming he’s Alfonse. I feel that’s the link between what Anna was talking about and Alfonse mentioning he could only recall his time with Kiran

Edited by Arcphoenix

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10 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

Question: Did Sharena ever dispaly the same gate-opening ability as Alfonse does?

Not yet. For what it's worth, according to the Dragalia Lost crossover she either can't or isn't anywhere near as good at it as Alfonse, I can't remember which.

Edited by DefyingFates

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@Druplesnubb

That's a very good point. I hadn't thought of it since I don't recall them actually using it before. We just know that Askran royalty can do it. Either putting Sharena's fears to rest or confirming them, it's a good test...kind of. Maybe her opening a gate or something is how the next book starts because "whoops, new world we can't close the door to. Someone get Veronica and hope she helps us."

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1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

@Druplesnubb

That's a very good point. I hadn't thought of it since I don't recall them actually using it before. We just know that Askran royalty can do it. Either putting Sharena's fears to rest or confirming them, it's a good test...kind of. Maybe her opening a gate or something is how the next book starts because "whoops, new world we can't close the door to. Someone get Veronica and hope she helps us."

I...didn't realise that's what you were going for Druple, that is clever! I'm not so sure this chapter's going to end on a cliffhanger given how past books have been self-contained until now, but having Sharena open a gate would be a nice way to test her ability. If she never demonstrated the ability to that'd be another thing for her to worry about too, huh?

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Well here's my theory. At some point the protagonists will need to open a gate to another world (maybe to rescue Alfonse from another dream), but they can't use Alfonse to do it since their Alfonse is actually Kieran. It will then turn out that Peony has this ability, and in the epilogue she will use it to allow the fairies to visit their original worlds.

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7 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

Well here's my theory. At some point the protagonists will need to open a gate to another world (maybe to rescue Alfonse from another dream), but they can't use Alfonse to do it since their Alfonse is actually Kieran. It will then turn out that Peony has this ability, and in the epilogue she will use it to allow the fairies to visit their original worlds.

IIIIII don't think Peony can open portals. Even if she's the original Sharena, her human DNA is gone, along with the Askr royal blood. I also think people are reading into the Alfonse = Kiran thing too much -- I really don't think he's the summoner.

Also, pretty sure you mean Kiran. Kieran is a totally different character (and he is awesome.)

As for opening portals, though, it could happen. For example, maybe they could open a portal back to Askr...so that they could unleash yet another crazed monarch into their country. If this happens, it'll probably just be for the big boss fight, though, then (hopefully) Veronica or Bruno can close it. The fairies are fairies forever now, though, so there's no reason for them to leave dreamland. Also, Plumeria might be dead now.

Speaking of which, that was really something else, Freyja openly bidding the fairies to suffer and die for the sake of tormenting the mortals. Good plot development and really showed Freyja's next-level insanity.

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Honestly, I don't think Peony is the girl Sharena kept swapping with.

Looking back at the dialogue (even going back again to look it over), Sharena doesn't specify the girl she did it with, despite apparently remembering a lot more. From her tone, it doesn't sound to me like Peony is the one, otherwise you'd think Sharena would have said as much.

Peony also doesn't seem to have the same problem Sharena has, as we can infer that her feeling sad at hearing the word "sister" is likely because of Triandra (as indicated from the Book 4 Part 2 trailer).

Perhaps this is just me, but there doesn't really seem to be any build-up to the idea that Peony is the one Sharena was swapping with, though I suppose we might find out for sure next chapter, or the one after with certainty.

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14 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:

Honestly, I don't think Peony is the girl Sharena kept swapping with.

Looking back at the dialogue (even going back again to look it over), Sharena doesn't specify the girl she did it with, despite apparently remembering a lot more. From her tone, it doesn't sound to me like Peony is the one, otherwise you'd think Sharena would have said as much.

Peony also doesn't seem to have the same problem Sharena has, as we can infer that her feeling sad at hearing the word "sister" is likely because of Triandra (as indicated from the Book 4 Part 2 trailer).

Perhaps this is just me, but there doesn't really seem to be any build-up to the idea that Peony is the one Sharena was swapping with, though I suppose we might find out for sure next chapter, or the one after with certainty.

The evidence for Peony being Sharena's changeling is the following:

1. The book 3 art showing them kind of yin-yang-ing.

2. The mid-book video showing Peony as Sharena's reflection at one point before it turned back into Sharena's reflection.

3. When Sharena's remembering her dreamworld childhood (and having something of a mental breakdown) in this last chapter, she mentions a sister whom she refers to as "Sis."

The main argument against it is that Peony and Sharena don't look the same, and Sharena described the "other girl" (her changeling) as looking "just like her" and to the point of being able to fool each other's families.

I'm not taking a super strong stance on this yet since really it could go either way, but if Sharena and Peony really are each other's changelings, then them not looking like each other can be explained pretty easily: when Peony drank the nectar, she physically transformed. Several features changed. So, she could have looked like Sharena when they were both human, but that changed when she became a fairy (eye color, hair color, being part plant or whatever, having butterfly wings, and so on.) Plus, kids tend to gain more unique physical features as they grow older and look more similar to one another when young. So, Peony and Sharena went through their own sets of changes since they were children. Ergo, they look different now, but could have looked alike when they were kids.

 

Along that theory's line of reasoning, Sharena is probably the real Sharena, especially since she had a home and good family to go back to, while Peony would have followed her sister. That said, I don't know if Sharena will stay the same as she is right now. I could see her needing to rescue Kiran and Alfonse (at least, but will probably be rescuing Anna and the fairies too) at some point and winding up drinking that nectar and becoming a fairy (Lance Astra Mythic, maybe?), especially since she's not sure who she is anyway. Maybe since she's an adult (or near so) when she drinks it, she'll be able to transform back and forth under certain conditions or something (allowing us to get a Sharena alt while making book 4 remain self-contained, and resolving the "I abandoned my friends" thing.) I could see Freyja somehow turning good and maybe that would bring Freyr back to life or something, too. Who knows? Sharena's a "happily ever after" type so, *shrug*.

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19 hours ago, Mercakete said:

The evidence for Peony being Sharena's changeling is the following:

1. The book 3 art showing them kind of yin-yang-ing.

2. The mid-book video showing Peony as Sharena's reflection at one point before it turned back into Sharena's reflection.

3. When Sharena's remembering her dreamworld childhood (and having something of a mental breakdown) in this last chapter, she mentions a sister whom she refers to as "Sis."

The main argument against it is that Peony and Sharena don't look the same, and Sharena described the "other girl" (her changeling) as looking "just like her" and to the point of being able to fool each other's families.

I'm not taking a super strong stance on this yet since really it could go either way, but if Sharena and Peony really are each other's changelings, then them not looking like each other can be explained pretty easily: when Peony drank the nectar, she physically transformed. Several features changed. So, she could have looked like Sharena when they were both human, but that changed when she became a fairy (eye color, hair color, being part plant or whatever, having butterfly wings, and so on.) Plus, kids tend to gain more unique physical features as they grow older and look more similar to one another when young. So, Peony and Sharena went through their own sets of changes since they were children. Ergo, they look different now, but could have looked alike when they were kids.

 

Along that theory's line of reasoning, Sharena is probably the real Sharena, especially since she had a home and good family to go back to, while Peony would have followed her sister. That said, I don't know if Sharena will stay the same as she is right now. I could see her needing to rescue Kiran and Alfonse (at least, but will probably be rescuing Anna and the fairies too) at some point and winding up drinking that nectar and becoming a fairy (Lance Astra Mythic, maybe?), especially since she's not sure who she is anyway. Maybe since she's an adult (or near so) when she drinks it, she'll be able to transform back and forth under certain conditions or something (allowing us to get a Sharena alt while making book 4 remain self-contained, and resolving the "I abandoned my friends" thing.) I could see Freyja somehow turning good and maybe that would bring Freyr back to life or something, too. Who knows? Sharena's a "happily ever after" type so, *shrug*.

I suppose we'll find out in a month. :)

Honestly, I just really hope that, like you said, Sharena gets something that could be used as an alt.

Edited by Sentinel07

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8 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

I suppose we'll find out in a month. ūüôā

Honestly, I just really hope that, like you said, Sharena gets something that could be used as an alt.

Yeah. You know, Sharena's design is really set up for a fairy alt, too. All the fairies have flowers growing out of their hair, and if you look at the ends of Mirabilis' hair, they end in a sort of chrysanthemum design. If you look at Sharena's hair, the end of it is tied off in a similar way. And those little pseudo-pigtails she has coming out from under the main body of her hair (the ends of her braids) could easily turn into trumpet flowers like what we see on top of Mirabilis' head.

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59 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Yeah. You know, Sharena's design is really set up for a fairy alt, too. All the fairies have flowers growing out of their hair, and if you look at the ends of Mirabilis' hair, they end in a sort of chrysanthemum design. If you look at Sharena's hair, the end of it is tied off in a similar way. And those little pseudo-pigtails she has coming out from under the main body of her hair (the ends of her braids) could easily turn into trumpet flowers like what we see on top of Mirabilis' head.

Huh, indeed so. ūüėĄ

Edited by Sentinel07

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