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Fire Emblem Heroes - New Heroes (Forces of Will)

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2 minutes ago, Integrity said:

strikeout is a cowardly shorthand for shit you actually mean; if you didn't mean it, you wouldn't have posted it

That's not how life works. Everyone in the history of ever says and/or posts (for our modern times) sarcastic things in the moment out of annoyance or frustration all the time.

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Just now, Fire Emblem Fan said:

That's not how life works. Everyone in the history of ever says and/or posts (for our modern times) sarcastic things in the moment out of annoyance or frustration all the time.

so did you mean it or didn't you, babe

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1 minute ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Did I meant what?

On 5/4/2021 at 11:09 PM, Fire Emblem Fan said:

So, will people start complaining about all the Edelgard alts like they did for Lyn? No? Okay.

 

idk what you think you meant by strikeout, were you ironically complaining or what, it sounds like you're actually mad about it, which implies that the strikeout meant nothing, bro

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3 minutes ago, Integrity said:

idk what you think you meant by strikeout, were you ironically complaining or what, it sounds like you're actually mad about it, which implies that the strikeout meant nothing, bro

It's in strikeout because I was annoyed and venting my own complaining, I'm not seething mad about the banner. Just annoyed, like I've already said. I don't know what you expect a strikeout to mean or what you think it should mean.

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Just now, Fire Emblem Fan said:

It's in strikeout because I was annoyed and venting my own complaining, I'm not seething mad about the banner. Just annoyed, like I've already said. I don't know what you expect a strikeout to mean or what you think it should mean.

given your posts and reports in this thread, i beg to differ with your self-diagnosis

 

perhaps you should disengage my man

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21 minutes ago, Integrity said:

given your posts and reports in this thread, i beg to differ with your self-diagnosis

 

perhaps you should disengage my man

I don't get your meaning, I'm replying to posts replying to me. The only times I'm genuinely upset and/or angry about any of it is when I thought someone was being aggressive and came off to me as talking down at me.

But, I mean, okay, then. I'll exit the thread.

Edited by Fire Emblem Fan

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3 hours ago, Integrity said:

strikeout is a cowardly shorthand for shit you actually mean; if you didn't mean it, you wouldn't have posted it

Is it cowardly? If anything, it draws emphasis to what you are saying (which I personally tend to use italics for), or expresses that you're thinking it and know it is an unpopular opinion. Like so:

 

Fallen Heroes has always been a shallow, pointless banner and they should retire it.

Edited by Fabulously Olivier

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The bottom line is, they are in it to make money, make no mistake.

And since 3H is recent and for the newer era players, their first FE, she is familiar to them. Couple that with her popularity and i can understand why they choose her. It's not personal, just them making money, which runs the game. So i'm fine with it even if i don't really like Edelgard as a character.

That's how i feel, at least. I'm happy with what i get.

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The only real problem I have with the 3H lord spam is that C̶l̶a̶u̶d̶e̶ i̶s̶ e̶x̶c̶l̶u̶d̶e̶d̶ f̶r̶o̶m̶ i̶t̶ they're all pretty samey. Like, ok, IS wants to make money and showering us with the new lords is probably the best way to do that but I'm sure people would be more interested, and therefore have more people willing to spend money, in someone like Dimitri, regardless of whether he fits or not, if he just didn't look like a copy & paste of his previous two alts.

All versions of him have him been lance wielders with his base version being the only one that offers anything substantially different from his other 3. Same thing applies to Claude. Kinda applies to Edelgard except her new one is colorless beast instead of axe but still function almost identical to her legendary version despite that. Like some have said before, 3H has a very customizable job system where any character can be just about anything and Heroes hasn't taken advantage of that. Not even for the pretty obvious stuff like Axe Claude, Dark Mage Edel, or Sword Dimitri that a lot speculated for their brave versions since that's where they have proficiency in outside their base weapon.

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8 minutes ago, NegativeExponents- said:

The only real problem I have with the 3H lord spam is that C̶l̶a̶u̶d̶e̶ i̶s̶ e̶x̶c̶l̶u̶d̶e̶d̶ f̶r̶o̶m̶ i̶t̶ they're all pretty samey. Like, ok, IS wants to make money and showering us with the new lords is probably the best way to do that but I'm sure people would be more interested, and therefore have more people willing to spend money, in someone like Dimitri, regardless of whether he fits or not, if he just didn't look like a copy & paste of his previous two alts.

All versions of him have him been lance wielders with his base version being the only one that offers anything substantially different from his other 3. Same thing applies to Claude. Kinda applies to Edelgard except her new one is colorless beast instead of axe but still function almost identical to her legendary version despite that. Like some have said before, 3H has a very customizable job system where any character can be just about anything and Heroes hasn't taken advantage of that. Not even for the pretty obvious stuff like Axe Claude, Dark Mage Edel, or Sword Dimitri that a lot speculated for their brave versions since that's where they have proficiency in outside their base weapon.

All Dimitris play very differently from each other. Their similarity ends with artwork, lance, and infantry. Just because a unit has the same art does not mean they function the same. In fact, out of the main lords, Dimitri is the most diverse. If you cover up the art and look only at the skills, Dimitri: King of Faerghus is an enemy phase unit, Dimitri: Savior King is a dual phase unit and works really well as a super tank, and FOW!Dimitri here is a player phase unit. If you try to substitute one Dimitri for another in a role where they are clearly not meant for, you will be punished severely. There is no way FOW!Dimitri is going to survive certain things that SK!Dimitri can shrug off as a super tank for example.

Actual skill sets and effects matter far more than superficial things like artwork. And while color-weapon-movement type is important, that alone does not define a unit, and it certainly does not define a unit's role.

Claude and his flying versions are also very different. Claude is a player phase unit, preferably as a Firesweep nuke since Cunning Bow is not very good for damage output and infantry archers and flying archers are better as raw damage nukes since the former have access to Blazing builds and the latter has access to extra stats via Reins. Claude: Almyra's King is a dual phase unit, although not very amazing in my opinion. Claude: King of Unification is great for trolling players on defense, but he is also an okay player phase unit with some enemy phase capability for duelling units in Arena. While you can say that flying Claudes are similar to each other, they are very different from normal Claude and you certainly cannot substitute flying ones with a cavalry one, as the cavalry one will just die.

Similarly for Edelgard, she and Edelgard: Adrestian Emperor are both dual phase units and you can make a case there where they are a bit samey in that regard, but Edelgard: Adrestian Emperor is overall a clear upgrade with better bulk and access to Save skills. Edelgard: Flame Emperor and Edelgard: Hegemon Husk are very different units compared to the first two and they are primarily player phase Galeforcers with just enough enemy phase performance so they do not fall over if an enemy sneezes at them. While the Edelgards within their group are similar, the two groups are very different from each other.

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1 hour ago, NegativeExponents- said:

The only real problem I have with the 3H lord spam is that C̶l̶a̶u̶d̶e̶ i̶s̶ e̶x̶c̶l̶u̶d̶e̶d̶ f̶r̶o̶m̶ i̶t̶ they're all pretty samey. Like, ok, IS wants to make money and showering us with the new lords is probably the best way to do that but I'm sure people would be more interested, and therefore have more people willing to spend money, in someone like Dimitri, regardless of whether he fits or not, if he just didn't look like a copy & paste of his previous two alts.

All versions of him have him been lance wielders with his base version being the only one that offers anything substantially different from his other 3. Same thing applies to Claude. Kinda applies to Edelgard except her new one is colorless beast instead of axe but still function almost identical to her legendary version despite that. Like some have said before, 3H has a very customizable job system where any character can be just about anything and Heroes hasn't taken advantage of that. Not even for the pretty obvious stuff like Axe Claude, Dark Mage Edel, or Sword Dimitri that a lot speculated for their brave versions since that's where they have proficiency in outside their base weapon.

The Brave Versions I feel are the most to blame there. They didn't even do anything particularly interesting with keeping them the same weapon types. Instead they just pulled Archanean Weapons out of their asses. Otherwise though we kind of had to have the legendary versions use the actual relics from in the games. And the first batch of the lords kind of also needed use their default weapons. As that was something akin to advertising for the new game, so there was motive to represent them with their actual main weapon types to provide an idea of what these characters are like. Could the Flame Emperor have been given something other than an axe? Eh...well it wouldn't be the weirdest choice in Heroes. But given the Flame Emperor is an enemy only design for Edelgard and she always uses an axe as an enemy, changing it would be changing it for the sake of changing it rather than actually capitalizing on the malleable class system of Three Houses.

So then that just leaves us with the newest incarnations, in which Edelgard is indeed different a beast unit instead of an axe unit. Did she need to be an armoured unit? Hmm, well it is the most accurate way of representing her as a boss, but I could see the argument in favor of making her a flying unit as she floats. However we have only four potential armoured units from among the laguz (Caineghis, Griffca, Skirmir and Soan). While we have a lot more birds to choose from (ten from the playable characters, plus a few minor characters and bosses #SeekerForPirateBanner). So it does make some sense to cover the basis and make her an armroured unit (though making her the same colour as Caineghis seems ill advised though, I'd prefer to have been red). This also gives us the potnetial for Miklan and Dedue to be armoured beast units too, which gives us a sufficient, if not large, pool of armoured beast units (another option would be the Immovable and the Wind Caller, as the 4 Saints do technically have character designs via their statues).

Now Boar Dimitri, did he have to be a lance unit? Could they have made him axe killer Dimitri or Dimitri with a blooded sword (no on that count, please only unavoidable sword infantry IS)? Yes, I think they could have. But Dimitri as a lance infantry units is in the weapon movement combination that is one of the fewest in the game, given how lance infantry are not a standard class in a lot of games like the other infantry types. So while yeah, four lance infantry Dimitri's are a bit boring, especially with this one looking just like his Brave version in terms of design (I kind of feel they should have made his brave version the fallen unit, ie give him this characterization on that banner, even with the black smoke, I don't think the people who voted for him would be upset, either that or they could have used his alternate Crimson Flower design for his brave variation if they always knew they were going to give him a dedicated Boar alt). One of my more crazier suggestions was to make Boar Dimitri a beast unit whose transformation involves going from a calm looking sprite to a crazy sprite, with his attack manner being plain beating people to death with his hands (I think we have some support conversation that mentions Dimitri punching to show how physically strong he is, and even if there isn't he does have a bit of an obsession over how bloody his hands are, metaphorical, I know, but still suitable for a weapon name). This could also be a good way to reference the gauntlet weapon type without necessarily committing to the gauntlet as a new weapon type. Alternatively, commit to gauntlets as a new weapon type and have Fallen Dimitri be the first unit to use them. That would probably be a seller. In the end they didn't chose those more esoteric alternatives, so lance boar Dimitri it is. Is he a little boring? Yeah, kind of, but he's doing a good job of entertaining me in Forging Bonds.

 

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It's pretty telling that IS knew that Fallen Dimitri and Fallen Edelgard are overpowered since both of them could not appear in randomized maps at all (so Training Tower, Tempest Trials, and Forging Bonds as well as Allegiance Battles, Mjolnir's Strike, and Rival Domains).

This is the first time they've done this for a non-CYL/dancer unit since Surtr, who was released on the latter half of 2018.

At the same time, Knoll, Emmeryn, and Kaze could now appear on randomized maps.

Edited by Roflolxp54

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1 minute ago, Roflolxp54 said:

It's pretty telling that IS knew that Fallen Dimitri and Fallen Edelgard are overpowered since both of them could not appear in randomized maps at all (so Training Tower, Tempest Trials, and Forging Bonds as well as Allegiance Battles, Mjolnir's Strike, and Rival Domains).

This is the first time they've done this for a non-CYL/dancer unit since Surtr, who was released on the latter half of 2018.

At the same time, Knoll, Emmeryn, and Kaze could now appear on randomized maps.

Surtr didn't have that status initially, right? IIRC, it was changed retroactively.

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1 minute ago, Othin said:

Surtr didn't have that status initially, right? IIRC, it was changed retroactively.

Yeah, it was retroactive (same could be said for dancers and the CYL1 units).

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They could probably toss a few more characters to that "not allowed to show up ever" list. Wouldn't mind throwing the likes of Duessel and Shinon there.

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Fallen Edelgard with Save skills already showing up on AR. Damn.

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Just now, Jave said:

Fallen Edelgard with Save skills already showing up on AR. Damn.

Huh, the transform requirement seems like it'd complicate that. How are they getting around that?

I have Cecilia on my Light team, but I may end up needing a traditional Raven time user on Astra as well. Fallen Lyon is great, but he doesn't work on her. 

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8 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

Like some have said before, 3H has a very customizable job system where any character can be just about anything and Heroes hasn't taken advantage of that.

I mean, every game since the Akaneia remakes except Echoes has had the option to change classes, but they've only really used it for Chrom, Lucina, and Ryoma.

Chrom has Paladin for the same weapon with a different movement type and Sniper for the same movement type with a different weapon. Lucina has Sniper for the same movement type with a different weapon. Ryoma has Kinshi Knight for the same weapon with a different movement type.

Right now, the Academy versions of the Three Houses main characters already serve the purpose of having a different movement type with the same weapon, and while all of the other versions of them have had the same movement type and weapon as each other with the exception of Fallen Edelgard, they've all been made to play different roles than their other versions.

Also, I really don't mind all of the post-Academy versions of Dimitri being lance infantry. Lance infantry has historically been an under-represented class due to the class being extremely rare for playable characters in the main series, so the more we get, the better.

Axe armor might be the most common armor class, but armors in general have low representation, so the more the merrier. My only problem is that Flame Emperor has literally the exact same stat spread (+1/-1/0/0/+4) and the exact same default inheritable weapon as Halloween Dorcas. Flame Emperor's stat spread is so generic, it's also basically the same as Legendary Hector's (+3/0/+2/-1/0), but without an exclusive weapon to differentiate themselves. Even if the post-Academy Dimitris and Edelgards all have similar stat spreads, their exclusive weapons and exclusive skills at least differentiate them from each other.

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

I mean, every game since the Akaneia remakes except Echoes has had the option to change classes, but they've only really used it for Chrom, Lucina, and Ryoma.

Chrom has Paladin for the same weapon with a different movement type and Sniper for the same movement type with a different weapon. Lucina has Sniper for the same movement type with a different weapon. Ryoma has Kinshi Knight for the same weapon with a different movement type.

Right now, the Academy versions of the Three Houses main characters already serve the purpose of having a different movement type with the same weapon, and while all of the other versions of them have had the same movement type and weapon as each other with the exception of Fallen Edelgard, they've all been made to play different roles than their other versions.

Also, I really don't mind all of the post-Academy versions of Dimitri being lance infantry. Lance infantry has historically been an under-represented class due to the class being extremely rare for playable characters in the main series, so the more we get, the better.

Axe armor might be the most common armor class, but armors in general have low representation, so the more the merrier. My only problem is that Flame Emperor has literally the exact same stat spread (+1/-1/0/0/+4) and the exact same default inheritable weapon as Halloween Dorcas. Flame Emperor's stat spread is so generic, it's also basically the same as Legendary Hector's (+3/0/+2/-1/0), but without an exclusive weapon to differentiate themselves. Even if the post-Academy Dimitris and Edelgards all have similar stat spreads, their exclusive weapons and exclusive skills at least differentiate them from each other.

Well technically Echoes had class changing too with the use of Pitch Forks to put any character into villager (and thus any non lord class). Of course it's a bit of a stretch to include Mage Valbar in the game on that basis. As even with reclassing, characters still have pretty defined defaults in the games between Archanea and Shadows of Valentia. Three Houses characters do also have default classes based on their appearances as enemies, but it's much less defined compared to previous games with all characters starting in your playable army as villagers. There's definitely suggestions with characters proficiency and relics and stuff, but they do have more freedom to work with when it comes to Three Houses characters compared to previous games. The default Hana being a flying knife unit, I think, would seem a lot more weird compared to Petra appearing as a flying knife unit (even though Knives don't appear in Three Houses, but she's a hunter, so it works imo). Flying Hana wouldn't feel all that much like Hana, but flying Petra still feels like Petra despite her never actually being a flying unit by default in Three Houses. At least in my view. And I pick Petra as an example as she's one of the few times they've used it to be creative. They've by and large usally been rather pedestrian in their Three Houses interpretations. I think Lindhardt could possibly be the most uninspired appearance in the game. Holy Knight sucks as a class in Three Houses, but it's still a thing that exists. And if they weren't going to give Linhardt a pony, they could at least have referenced his crest by introducing Heal Touch as a skill in Heroes. Instead we get what feels like the nine millionth obvious demote infantry healer.

Got a bit off topic hating on Heroes Linhardt there. The TL;DR is that Shadows of Valentia has reclassing too, but reclassing in Three Houses is a different beast to previous games and that should be taken advantage of to reach better class balance in the series.

Edited by Jotari

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20 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

It's pretty telling that IS knew that Fallen Dimitri and Fallen Edelgard are overpowered since both of them could not appear in randomized maps at all (so Training Tower, Tempest Trials, and Forging Bonds as well as Allegiance Battles, Mjolnir's Strike, and Rival Domains).

This is the first time they've done this for a non-CYL/dancer unit since Surtr, who was released on the latter half of 2018.

At the same time, Knoll, Emmeryn, and Kaze could now appear on randomized maps.

TBH, they should disable ALL new units from randomly appearing for 2-3 months, and not re-enable them if that specific unit is found to be overpowered in a live environment.

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@XRay Functionally yes they are all different. But at the end of the day, the average player would still only see one thing when looking at any Dimitri: Blue pointy sticks.

I mean, look at Lyn and Camilla, the two units everyone loves to rage on because they have 7 alts apiece.

  • Lyn has her base form (Sword Infantry), Bridal (Staff Infantry), Brave (Colorless Bow Cav), Valentines (Blue Tome Armor), Legendary (Green Bow Infantry), Summer (Blue Bow Flier), and Ninja alts (Colorless Dagger Flier). Very diverse selection of weapons and move types to pick from.
  • Camilla has her base form (Axe Flier), Easter (Green Tome Flier), New Years (Sword Flier), Summer (Blue Tome Flier), Adrift (Red Tome Flier), Hot Springs (Colorless Dagger Flier), and Brave alts (Staff flier). While they're all fliers, you still have a good variety of weapons to pick from.

Is it fair to compare those two veterans to units who were only added a year and a half ago, not very, especially when you consider that Lyn and Camilla grew up in the early ages of FEH, but they at least have an extremely diverse weapon lineup compared to many other units with alts, and then we come to the Three Houses lords, all three of whom are not shaping up to be any better than others. Byleth is not looking to be any better either when their only alt besides genders is a Red Tome flier, and their expected Legendary Infantry alt can pick between Swords/Reason magic (most likely Blue Tome)/Brawling, a weapon that doesn't even exist in FEH.

If it was just a matter of how everyone functioned, then yeah okay everyone has their uses. But the first thing people see will be their weapon and unit type, and that's usually all a person would need to immediately write off a unit before they even look at their skills. Heck, I myself am not that interested in Boar Dimitri just because I don't think I need him as much as other units, I feel I'm good on fast/strong Blue units already.

Edited by Xenomata

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Now that Hegemon Edelgard is out and is super powerful, I'm thinking it's time they give us another Radiant Dawn banner and grant us some inheritable beast effective weaponry. Or just some more beast effective prfs if distinct inhertiable weapons is just a thing that doesn't happen any more (I assume the Flame Lance isn't inheritable?). There are a few beast effective weapons already, but not that many. Would be nice to have a distinct hard counter for Edelgard. Because wow not only is her player phase offense immense, but she's really bulky too.

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Just now, Jotari said:

Now that Hegemon Edelgard is out and is super powerful, I'm thinking it's time they give us another Radiant Dawn banner and grant us some inheritable beast effective weaponry. Or just some more beast effective prfs if distinct inhertiable weapons is just a thing that doesn't happen any more (I assume the Flame Lance isn't inheritable?). There are a few beast effective weapons already, but not that many. Would be nice to have a distinct hard counter for Edelgard. Because wow not only is her player phase offense immense, but she's really bulky too.

Flame Lance is a prf, yeah.

We've been getting some new inheritable weapons. In addition to seasonals, Annand and Louise each introduced a new series, as well as Gatrie and Melady late last year.

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On 5/7/2021 at 10:51 AM, XRay said:

I think the spacing might be intentional to encourage spending. If you space them out too much, then players can potentially get all the Dimitris for free via free Orbs. If they space them together though, then players will be forced to spend money if they want to have all the Dimitris now since there would not be enough free Orbs generating fast enough.

When you consider my Dimitri-sprees tend to be pity broken by unwanted Edelgards, it gets very expensive orb-wise. Both standard and Legendary Edelgard are at/would be +4, and I never actively pull for her. Granted, if there's something that I can't throw Brave Dimitri at, L!Edelgard is good enough to toss in his place.

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