How I imagine a Fire Emblem 4 remake

[Emperor Hardin]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

At least they could reclass into them.

Curate/Cleric was likely because it can't attack, and you need to for the first Prologue chapter. The selection certainly looks like it's just one option per type of class. Specially since it's Mercenary for Male Kris and Myrmidon for Female Kris, but both are sword infantry. So no Hunter due Archer, no Dark Mage due to Mage, no Pirate due to Fighter. But well, that'd be the extent of it, otherwise how to explain Male Kris having Knight to Female Kris Pegasus Knight, outside being both the lance-only classes.

I agree thats the gist of it too, but Fighter is more protagonist-y in FE than Pirate/Brigand is, so Kris having Fighter as an origin over pirate is sticking with that.

Back on the topic of FE4, I'd maybe want a Wyvern Rider or Fighter perhaps, but honestly FE4's very character driven, so its hard to add new characters without changing everything completely.

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, Emperor Hardin said:

I agree thats the gist of it too, but Fighter is more protagonist-y in FE than Pirate/Brigand is, so Kris having Fighter as an origin over pirate is sticking with that.

Back on the topic of FE4, I'd maybe want a Wyvern Rider or Fighter perhaps, but honestly FE4's very character driven, so its hard to add new characters without changing everything completely.

Yeah, that's certainly true.

This reminds me of one idea I had for a hypothetical new character to be added in a remake. Basically a Dragon Rider that could have minor Dáinn blood, because I'm pretty sure IS might go in that direction so we can every Holy Blood playable. Here it is that idea.

One thing to consider when thinking up new characters, is that because we can have the same number of units in both gens (24), if you add a character to one Gen, you got to mind adding another for the other Gen. Perhaps.

[Emperor Hardin]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah, that's certainly true.

This reminds me of one idea I had for a hypothetical new character to be added in a remake. Basically a Dragon Rider that could have minor Dáinn blood, because I'm pretty sure IS might go in that direction so we can every Holy Blood playable. Here it is that idea.

One thing to consider when thinking up new characters, is that because we can have the same number of units in both gens (24), if you add a character to one Gen, you got to mind adding another for the other Gen. Perhaps.

Classes in FE4 aren't created equal either and WyvernLord is a perfect example of that.

I'm thinking if we got a wyvern, it'd be a Dragon rider(don't know what the localized name of that class would be?), the tier below WyvernRider/DragonKnight and would promote to that instead of WyvernLord.

Also thinking of Arden, I think the best thing to do with him would to simply add times in chapters where enemy reinforcements come out and target your castle, giving more occasions to use that rarely used gameplay style.

Do you mean every minor holy blood or every major holy blood as well?

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Classes in FE4 aren't created equal either and WyvernLord is a perfect example of that.

I'm thinking if we got a wyvern, it'd be a Dragon rider(don't know what the localized name of that class would be?), the tier below WyvernRider/DragonKnight and would promote to that instead of WyvernLord.

Also thinking of Arden, I think the best thing to do with him would to simply add times in chapters where enemy reinforcements come out and target your castle, giving more occasions to use that rarely used gameplay style.

Do you mean every minor holy blood or every major holy blood as well?

Oh, by Dragon Rider I meant Dragon Knight. Since Genealogy actually has three dragon riding classes: The standalone and enemy-only Dragon Rider, then the unpromoted Dragon Knight which promotes to Dragon Master. My proposed character would be a Dragon Knight, like Altenna.

We can't have every major holy blood in the original anyway, so yeah, he'd just have minor. The main idea behind him was "use him for eugenics, or leave him unpaired but you can use him in Gen 2 as well."

[Emperor Hardin]

9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Oh, by Dragon Rider I meant Dragon Knight. Since Genealogy actually has three dragon riding classes: The standalone and enemy-only Dragon Rider, then the unpromoted Dragon Knight which promotes to Dragon Master. My proposed character would be a Dragon Knight, like Altenna.

We can't have every major holy blood in the original anyway, so yeah, he'd just have minor. The main idea behind him was "use him for eugenics, or leave him unpaired but you can use him in Gen 2 as well."

Gotcha. Wyvern Lord seems a bit overpowered to me, but the remake might change things.

Ok, a minor dain blooded character, neat!

Honestly opinion, but its hard for me to think of ways that any remake could surpass fan projects like FE4 Binary?

[Acacia Sgt]

10 minutes ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Gotcha. Wyvern Lord seems a bit overpowered to me, but the remake might change things.

Ok, a minor dain blooded character, neat!

Honestly opinion, but its hard for me to think of ways that any remake could surpass fan projects like FE4 Binary?

Surpass how?

[Emperor Hardin]

37 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Surpass how?

As in make a more balanced and/or fun experience.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Kris couldn't because Thief was a standalone class that couldn't promote but could get to level 30, like the Lord class. Genealogy's Thief can promote, so it would certainly be an option for any hypothetical Avatar.

Yeah, but Master Knight fits the exact same criteria and I doubt they'd let that be an option. I could see Thief being unique enough given its extra utility to be off the table. That being said a Thief avatar who is good at combat and will steal from everyone would be a lot of fun.

4 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

At least they could reclass into them.

Curate/Cleric was likely because it can't attack, and you need to for the first Prologue chapter. The selection certainly looks like it's just one option per type of class. Specially since it's Mercenary for Male Kris and Myrmidon for Female Kris, but both are sword infantry. So no Hunter due Archer, no Dark Mage due to Mage, no Pirate due to Fighter. But well, that'd be the extent of it, otherwise how to explain Male Kris having Knight to Female Kris Pegasus Knight, outside being both the lance-only classes. Or maybe that's the reason. Since there's no Female Knights, only Generals.

They could have had male hunter and female archer, if they wanted to. But then you get into the weird reclass sets they have going on there (and abandon after your first playthrough any way).

4 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah, that's certainly true.

This reminds me of one idea I had for a hypothetical new character to be added in a remake. Basically a Dragon Rider that could have minor Dáinn blood, because I'm pretty sure IS might go in that direction so we can every Holy Blood playable. Here it is that idea.

One thing to consider when thinking up new characters, is that because we can have the same number of units in both gens (24), if you add a character to one Gen, you got to mind adding another for the other Gen. Perhaps.

Well you could add a character to gen I without adding one to gen II if you just make Arion playable. I'm like 60% sure the only reason he wasn't playable in the first place was because there wasn't enough room for him in the castle. A more direct consideration would be that adding females in Gen I kind of means two children in Gen II, but they could go the Avatar Sexual route in that and just make new female characters infertile.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Jotari

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well dancer wasn't an option in New Mystery, so it almost wouldn't be a possibility in a Genealogy remake. Though a dancer as the atual prf class of an avatar, with the avatar's backstory playing into dancing, would be neat and carve a good niche for gameplay.

I likewise couldn't see Prince/Princess being an option, but I could see Thief being legitimate. It doesn't feel nearly as "special" a class as Master KNight or Dancer. Though, once again, I don't think Kris was able to be a Thief.

I don't see having mounted or flight when you're not supposed to have it as much of an issue. For one, you always have mounted units. SO that's no concern. As for the flight, that can easily be fixed with those yellow wall tiles blocking off sections of the map. You get flight pretty early in gen 2 any way. The only thing flight would really do is provide disproportionately good utility in the forests of Verdane.

I think a good standard for classes available to an Avatar would be "does this class show up as a generic enemy type?" We don't encounter generic Dancers or Prince/sses, so they're off the table. There's a generic Rogue in the second generation, but I don't think there are any Theives, so I'm inclined to drop them, too. My own selection would look something like:

Male Avatar:

Spoiler

Cavalier -> Paladin(M)

Archer -> Sniper

Mercenary -> Swordmaster

Fighter -> Warrior

Thunder Mage -> Mage Knight

Fenale Avatar:

Spoiler

Troubadour -> Paladin(F)

Archer -> Sniper

Mercenary -> Hero

Pegasus Knight -> Falcon Knight

Fire Mage -> War Mage(F)

This way, we'd get options that aren't available to the player in the base game (i.e. Fire Mage, male Thunder Mage, female Hero in first gen), but should be possible based on what we know about the game. Of course, this is all with the caveat that I'd still prefer the Avatar getting their own unique (infantry) class, and that I'm conflicted about an Avatar existing at all.

[Shadow Mir]

On 3/14/2022 at 6:56 AM, JungleGoutte01 said:

The trinity of magic will work like Radiant Dawn.

No. Just no. While I think the trinity of magic was never handled well when it was relevant, Radiant Dawn was where they really dropped the ball thanks to 99.9% of enemy mages being fire, wind or thunder (something that is also the case in this game). Not that it mattered, because mages were at their worst in that game for various reasons. Back to this game, for this to work, you'd need to have a player unit that has dark magic, and someone to have light magic that isn't Deirdre, Julia, Leif or Lachesis (of whom the former two have really limited availability, and the latter two need to promote first).

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I think a good standard for classes available to an Avatar would be "does this class show up as a generic enemy type?" We don't encounter generic Dancers or Prince/sses, so they're off the table. There's a generic Rogue in the second generation, but I don't think there are any Theives, so I'm inclined to drop them, too. My own selection would look something like:

Male Avatar:

  Hide contents

Cavalier -> Paladin(M)

Archer -> Sniper

Mercenary -> Swordmaster

Fighter -> Warrior

Thunder Mage -> Mage Knight

Fenale Avatar:

  Hide contents

Troubadour -> Paladin(F)

Archer -> Sniper

Mercenary -> Hero

Pegasus Knight -> Falcon Knight

Fire Mage -> War Mage(F)

This way, we'd get options that aren't available to the player in the base game (i.e. Fire Mage, male Thunder Mage, female Hero in first gen), but should be possible based on what we know about the game. Of course, this is all with the caveat that I'd still prefer the Avatar getting their own unique (infantry) class, and that I'm conflicted about an Avatar existing at all.

No wind mage?

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

No. Just no. While I think the trinity of magic was never handled well when it was relevant, Radiant Dawn was where they really dropped the ball thanks to 99.9% of enemy mages being fire, wind or thunder (something that is also the case in this game). Not that it mattered, because mages were at their worst in that game for various reasons. Back to this game, for this to work, you'd need to have a player unit that has dark magic, and someone to have light magic that isn't Deirdre, Julia, Leif or Lachesis (of whom the former two have really limited availability, and the latter two need to promote first).

Bolded part isn't quite right. Enemy Dark Mages are much more abundant in Genealogy than they were in Radiant Dawn, making prominent appearances in chapters 7, 10, and Endgame. Admittedly, they are quite scarce in the first generation (presumably because the Loptyr Cult is still trying to keep under wraps). So, the effect of this change would be that Deirdre would be at a disadvantage against the handful of Mage enemies she could face in chapters 2 and 3 (Arena) - technically, she could have WTD over Sandima in chapter 1, but I'm assuming she Silenced him. As for Julia, she becomes a lot better against the Loptyr Mages from Aed Castle in chapter 7... although she doesn't have a particularly easy time reaching them. She'll also do better against the Dark Mages that show up in the Arena, but worse against the Anima Mages in the Arena, not to mention the Thunder Mages of House Friege. Also, perhaps you've forgotten, but the Sage class (read: Lewyn, Ced/Hawk) also gets access to the Light tome. Suddenly Ced/Hawk is even better against lategame Dark Mages, although he'll have to game the Anima triangle to have WTA over the likes of Hilda, Ishtar, and that one Mage Knight with Tornado.

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

No wind mage?

Well, I wanted to have balance between the male and female Avatars, meaning one elemental Mage each. Wind Mage wound up being cut. Of course, you could replace either "Male Thunder Mage" or "Female Fire Mage" with Wind Mage, but in so doing, you'd be losing another elemental. Of course, each side could just have plain "Mage" instead, but without any Holy Blood, that's a rather boring class. Not to mention, it's a much more common class in the series, whereas it's rarer to get an "Elemental Mage" - only Tailtiu, Amid, Linda, and Ilyana come to mind.

[Shadow Mir]

8 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Bolded part isn't quite right. Enemy Dark Mages are much more abundant in Genealogy than they were in Radiant Dawn, making prominent appearances in chapters 7, 10, and Endgame. Admittedly, they are quite scarce in the first generation (presumably because the Loptyr Cult is still trying to keep under wraps). So, the effect of this change would be that Deirdre would be at a disadvantage against the handful of Mage enemies she could face in chapters 2 and 3 (Arena) - technically, she could have WTD over Sandima in chapter 1, but I'm assuming she Silenced him. As for Julia, she becomes a lot better against the Loptyr Mages from Aed Castle in chapter 7... although she doesn't have a particularly easy time reaching them. She'll also do better against the Dark Mages that show up in the Arena, but worse against the Anima Mages in the Arena, not to mention the Thunder Mages of House Friege. Also, perhaps you've forgotten, but the Sage class (read: Lewyn, Ced/Hawk) also gets access to the Light tome. Suddenly Ced/Hawk is even better against lategame Dark Mages, although he'll have to game the Anima triangle to have WTA over the likes of Hilda, Ishtar, and that one Mage Knight with Tornado.

The thing is, wind magic is already stupidly good compared to other magic types, and I don't see this fixing that. By the by, I consider that in even more need of fixing than shoehorning a double triangle in a game that wasn't designed around it.

[Metal Flash]

I saw someone mention making the avatar infertile in exchange for them surviving gen 1. It`s an interesting idea, though I`m sure many would also like to have the avatar be a parent. Maybe it could be determined by a questionere like the one in FE12. One of the questions could be about if they wish for children or not. Idk, just an idea.

I feel like keeping the base game`s magic triangle works fine, though I would try to rebalance the anima types. Make fire weight less, give thunder more accuracy, make wind heavier. Just my own suggestions, though I believe those here with more knowledge about the ins and outs of FE4 could provide some better alternatives.

[Acacia Sgt]

By "making it like Radiant Dawn" is it in terms of the extent of the bonuses, or making it actually a double-triangle? Since in both Jugdral games both Light and Dark have WTA over Anima.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

I saw someone mention making the avatar infertile in exchange for them surviving gen 1. It`s an interesting idea, though I`m sure many would also like to have the avatar be a parent. Maybe it could be determined by a questionere like the one in FE12. One of the questions could be about if they wish for children or not. Idk, just an idea.

Yeah, that was my suggestion. Obviously, players will want an Avatar who can get married, make babies, and play around with eugenics. Yada, yada, yada. But to introduce them into a system where they didn't exist before raises a ton of questions. Would the Avatar have 0 associated children, 1, or 2? If a male Avatar marries a mother character, and they have 3 kids together, which child gets "disinherited" - the son, the daughter, or the Avatar-specific-kid? Likewise, if a female Avatar marries a father character, and she only has 1 kid, does that child inherit from both parents, or just one? One solution would be to make it so only the female Avatar has kids, and if you're playing with the male Avatar, then you get the substitute units for those kids in the second generation. But then players who go with the male option may feel cheated, and you're also introducing two new characters who have no pre-existing place in the established world. Alternatively, the female Avatar doesn't have kids, and there are no "Avatar kid" units in generation two... but the male Avatar can have kids with an existing mother character. Now it's the players who picked the female Avatar feeling cheated.

Honestly, I'm thinking that, in terms of introducing an Avatar character without disrupting the existing setup any more than is required, it's just less of a headache not to give them any kids. Arguably, they shouldn't even be able to pair with anyone else, but I honestly like the lover system enough (and think it can give bonuses outside of just the kids it produces) to think that a child-free Avatar can still be integrated into it. But if the game were to give us an Avatar who is canonically asexual, then that'd be fine by me.

3 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

I feel like keeping the base game`s magic triangle works fine, though I would try to rebalance the anima types. Make fire weight less, give thunder more accuracy, make wind heavier. Just my own suggestions, though I believe those here with more knowledge about the ins and outs of FE4 could provide some better alternatives.

My "quick and dirty" balancing method is as follows: Fire, Elfire, and Bolganone now have 2 more Might each. Wind, Elwind, Tornado now have 2 less Might.

...That's it, that's the changes. I'd rather avoid an answer that goes "just make the tomes more similar to each other". Rather, I like the idea of each having distinct advantages and disadvantages. Like, Azelle would prefer using his Fire tome in cases where he's either too slow to double, or the opponent is too slow not to get doubled. But if it makes a "doubling difference", then he switches to Thunder. As it stands, once he gets the Thunder tome (Chapter 2 Armory), his Fire tome is essentially obsolete, since Thunder has better triangle against opposing Fire and Thunder Mages. Fire has the advantage against Wind Mages, sure, but by the time those show up, he can buy the Wind tome (Chapter 4 Armory) and actually double, whereas he's never doubling Wind Mages with a Fire tome.

The main criticism I see here is that Thunder magic becomes the least interesting, because it's just the "in-between" of Wind and Fire. Technically Thunder was the "in-between" in the prior system, too, except there it was just inferior to Wind in almost all cases due to its higher Weight, whereas under this system, it would at least do a little more damage. If we wanted to get saucy, we could totally ruin Thunder's stats (say, higher Weight, lower Might), but provide it with a secondary effect (like 1-3 range, or built-in Critical), so it stands out more. Still, I think there would be enough cases where an "in-between" option would be "just right".

All that told, though, I wouldn't mind if they threw in an additional tome of each Anima category. Maybe include a B-rank option with inferior stats, but effective damage against Cavalry (Fire), Armors (Thunder), and Fliers (Wind). Something to give player Mages more options, while also making enemy mages more threatening in certain contexts.

[AnonymousSpeed]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:56 AM, JungleGoutte01 said:

The castle are explorable.

I would prefer we didn't do that, to be honest. I think the menu system in the original works very smoothly, while I was not very fond of exploring the monastery in FE16.

On 3/15/2022 at 1:21 AM, Acacia Sgt said:

This reminds me of one idea I had for a hypothetical new character to be added in a remake. Basically a Dragon Rider that could have minor Dáinn blood, because I'm pretty sure IS might go in that direction so we can every Holy Blood playable. Here it is that idea.

I present this counter-proposal.

19 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well you could add a character to gen I without adding one to gen II if you just make Arion playable. I'm like 60% sure the only reason he wasn't playable in the first place was because there wasn't enough room for him in the castle. A more direct consideration would be that adding females in Gen I kind of means two children in Gen II, but they could go the Avatar Sexual route in that and just make new female characters infertile.

You could also just have an infertile character without them being an avatarsexual, but, well, check my next point.

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Yeah, that was my suggestion. Obviously, players will want an Avatar who can get married, make babies, and play around with eugenics.

Honestly, I'm thinking that, in terms of introducing an Avatar character without disrupting the existing setup any more than is required, it's just less of a headache not to give them any kids.

But if the game were to give us an Avatar who is canonically asexual, then that'd be fine by me.

Is it even worth bothering at all at that point?

I mean, let's ask ourselves this seriously. What kind of player is going to enjoy new Genealogy characters that are sterile? The whole point of the game is that you breed super soldiers, so if you add a new female character and decide to give her no kids to save effort...what's even the point? Who's going to appreciate that addition? You get no eugenics options, you're essentially taunted by being denied them.

Likewise, what's the point of having an avatar character that does none of the things players want avatars to do? An avatar needs to be at least in some sense customizable- in terms of appearance, statistics, or relationships. Preferably all three, but the last one especially. If the game hands you a character and says "this represents you", or leaves that notion implied, but then assigns them a sexuality for you, then...like...why you lyin'? People want avatars that can marry other characters, and people want to breed super soldiers in FE4. So saying the Avatar is divorced from both of those options is to render the entire endeavor utterly pointless.

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

But to introduce them into a system where they didn't exist before raises a ton of questions.

Most certainly, though I'd still be interested in seeing one.

I don't have any proposals for how their kids should work aside from not letting the avatar being a homewrecker. I'll probably come up with some later. I'd at least like to choose the avatar's class and a minor holy blood, excluding the obvious Loptyr and Naga (although I think Naga blood is more actually more debatable). Choosing no holy blood could also be an option, although I'm not sure what benefit you could receive to make up for that. A second personal skill, perhaps.

Speaking of skills. Should there be any reclassing, or fellows who can promote to sword infantry, I propose the following changes to Astra/Luna/Sol. These skills are inheritable by everyone, but only activate when using a sword on foot. Mage Fighters probably don't need the boost, but I think it would be fun. You don't even have to worry about Prince/Princess losing it on promotion, since Lief's parents are set.

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

All that told, though, I wouldn't mind if they threw in an additional tome of each Anima category. Maybe include a B-rank option with inferior stats, but effective damage against Cavalry (Fire), Armors (Thunder), and Fliers (Wind). Something to give player Mages more options, while also making enemy mages more threatening in certain contexts.

Make all wind tomes effective against fliers. Forseti needs the buff, guys.

[Metal Flash]

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Yeah, that was my suggestion. Obviously, players will want an Avatar who can get married, make babies, and play around with eugenics. Yada, yada, yada. But to introduce them into a system where they didn't exist before raises a ton of questions. Would the Avatar have 0 associated children, 1, or 2? If a male Avatar marries a mother character, and they have 3 kids together, which child gets "disinherited" - the son, the daughter, or the Avatar-specific-kid? Likewise, if a female Avatar marries a father character, and she only has 1 kid, does that child inherit from both parents, or just one? One solution would be to make it so only the female Avatar has kids, and if you're playing with the male Avatar, then you get the substitute units for those kids in the second generation. But then players who go with the male option may feel cheated, and you're also introducing two new characters who have no pre-existing place in the established world. Alternatively, the female Avatar doesn't have kids, and there are no "Avatar kid" units in generation two... but the male Avatar can have kids with an existing mother character. Now it's the players who picked the female Avatar feeling cheated.

Honestly, I'm thinking that, in terms of introducing an Avatar character without disrupting the existing setup any more than is required, it's just less of a headache not to give them any kids. Arguably, they shouldn't even be able to pair with anyone else, but I honestly like the lover system enough (and think it can give bonuses outside of just the kids it produces) to think that a child-free Avatar can still be integrated into it. But if the game were to give us an Avatar who is canonically asexual, then that'd be fine by me.

It is a tricky conundrum. The best comprimise I can think is: F!Avatar has her own child, M!Avatar fathers existing children, both die in Belhalla. I am open to other suggestions though.

A random idea I had would be to follow their niece/nephew in gen 2, but you could just as easily make them an unrelated apprentice for the same effect without the need for a off-screen sibling.  

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

My "quick and dirty" balancing method is as follows: Fire, Elfire, and Bolganone now have 2 more Might each. Wind, Elwind, Tornado now have 2 less Might.

...That's it, that's the changes. I'd rather avoid an answer that goes "just make the tomes more similar to each other". Rather, I like the idea of each having distinct advantages and disadvantages. Like, Azelle would prefer using his Fire tome in cases where he's either too slow to double, or the opponent is too slow not to get doubled. But if it makes a "doubling difference", then he switches to Thunder. As it stands, once he gets the Thunder tome (Chapter 2 Armory), his Fire tome is essentially obsolete, since Thunder has better triangle against opposing Fire and Thunder Mages. Fire has the advantage against Wind Mages, sure, but by the time those show up, he can buy the Wind tome (Chapter 4 Armory) and actually double, whereas he's never doubling Wind Mages with a Fire tome.

The main criticism I see here is that Thunder magic becomes the least interesting, because it's just the "in-between" of Wind and Fire. Technically Thunder was the "in-between" in the prior system, too, except there it was just inferior to Wind in almost all cases due to its higher Weight, whereas under this system, it would at least do a little more damage. If we wanted to get saucy, we could totally ruin Thunder's stats (say, higher Weight, lower Might), but provide it with a secondary effect (like 1-3 range, or built-in Critical), so it stands out more. Still, I think there would be enough cases where an "in-between" option would be "just right".

All that told, though, I wouldn't mind if they threw in an additional tome of each Anima category. Maybe include a B-rank option with inferior stats, but effective damage against Cavalry (Fire), Armors (Thunder), and Fliers (Wind). Something to give player Mages more options, while also making enemy mages more threatening in certain contexts.

I like the effective B-rank option, otherwise I have nothing to add.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

6 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Is it even worth bothering at all at that point?

I mean, let's ask ourselves this seriously. What kind of player is going to enjoy new Genealogy characters that are sterile? The whole point of the game is that you breed super soldiers, so if you add a new female character and decide to give her no kids to save effort...what's even the point? Who's going to appreciate that addition? You get no eugenics options, you're essentially taunted by being denied them.

Likewise, what's the point of having an avatar character that does none of the things players want avatars to do? An avatar needs to be at least in some sense customizable- in terms of appearance, statistics, or relationships. Preferably all three, but the last one especially. If the game hands you a character and says "this represents you", or leaves that notion implied, but then assigns them a sexuality for you, then...like...why you lyin'? People want avatars that can marry other characters, and people want to breed super soldiers in FE4. So saying the Avatar is divorced from both of those options is to render the entire endeavor utterly pointless.

That... is a fair point. People love the pairing system, and excluding the Avatar from that may make them seem pointless. Personally, I think I'd like a character that's customizable and around for both generations, whether or not they had kids. But I'm already more in the tank for FE4 than most potential players.

6 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I don't have any proposals for how their kids should work aside from not letting the avatar being a homewrecker. I'll probably come up with some later. I'd at least like to choose the avatar's class and a minor holy blood, excluding the obvious Loptyr and Naga (although I think Naga blood is more actually more debatable). Choosing no holy blood could also be an option, although I'm not sure what benefit you could receive to make up for that. A second personal skill, perhaps.

My suggestion was that choosing no Holy Blood gives the Avatar a new item: the Charm Ring, which grants its wielder the Charm skill and sells for 20K gold. This could be seen as either a "bonus skill" or "bonus money", depending on the player's choice. If they choose holy blood, then instead of the Charm Ring, they'd get a relevant weapon (i.e. Elfire with minor Fjalar, or a Steel Sword with minor Hezul).

5 hours ago, Metal Flash said:

It is a tricky conundrum. The best comprimise I can think is: F!Avatar has her own child, M!Avatar fathers existing children, both die in Belhalla. I am open to other suggestions though.

A random idea I had would be to follow their niece/nephew in gen 2, but you could just as easily make them an unrelated apprentice for the same effect without the need for a off-screen sibling.  

I actually think having them survive Belhalla (or, per my original suggestion, miss it entirely) would work better for the "meta-narrative". If the Avatar is supposed to represent the player, then the player isn't being "killed off". Rather, the player has to live on, and help save Seliph where they were unable to save Sigurd. If the Avatar is killed off at Belhalla, but the game goes on, then they weren't really representing the player, now, were they?

I do think that a "playable in gen 2" Avatar could coexist alongside their own child/ren, if we want them to exist. Like, Finn can be a parent, while also being his own unit in gen 2. It's not necessarily an "either/or" choice.

6 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Speaking of skills. Should there be any reclassing, or fellows who can promote to sword infantry, I propose the following changes to Astra/Luna/Sol. These skills are inheritable by everyone, but only activate when using a sword on foot. Mage Fighters probably don't need the boost, but I think it would be fun. You don't even have to worry about Prince/Princess losing it on promotion, since Lief's parents are set.

Seems reasonable enough. Tine getting to use Sol or Luna after promotion could be a fun little gimmick. I wonder, should dismounting be an option, in such a case? Like, promoted Seliph can Dismount in the base game, but he never has any reason to. With this change, however, a weird build like Chulainn!Diarmuid might actually prefer to get off the horse, at least before going into the Arena.

[Metal Flash]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I actually think having them survive Belhalla (or, per my original suggestion, miss it entirely) would work better for the "meta-narrative". If the Avatar is supposed to represent the player, then the player isn't being "killed off". Rather, the player has to live on, and help save Seliph where they were unable to save Sigurd. If the Avatar is killed off at Belhalla, but the game goes on, then they weren't really representing the player, now, were they?

I do think that a "playable in gen 2" Avatar could coexist alongside their own child/ren, if we want them to exist. Like, Finn can be a parent, while also being his own unit in gen 2. It's not necessarily an "either/or" choice.

Fair point, I just worry that they would either steal the spotlight from the gen 2 characters or people would cry "AvAtAr fAvOuRiTiSiM" due to them surviving while other fan favourite characters perish. Them not being present for the battle could work, like you suggested, they could be tasked with protecting Edian, Oifey, Shannan and the children.

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Choosing no holy blood could also be an option, although I'm not sure what benefit you could receive to make up for that. A second personal skill, perhaps.

No benefit. You just make your avatars weaker. This is not a bad thing.

[AnonymousSpeed]

10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I do think that a "playable in gen 2" Avatar could coexist alongside their own child/ren, if we want them to exist. Like, Finn can be a parent, while also being his own unit in gen 2. It's not necessarily an "either/or" choice.

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

No benefit. You just make your avatars weaker. This is not a bad thing.

Sagely observations.

10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

My suggestion was that choosing no Holy Blood gives the Avatar a new item: the Charm Ring, which grants its wielder the Charm skill and sells for 20K gold. This could be seen as either a "bonus skill" or "bonus money", depending on the player's choice.

Now, I like Jotari's idea. It enables the player character to be truly "based", as the kids call it. However, I like the Charm Band idea more. It's immaculately flexible with such a simple change- not only can you decide whether the player character keeps it or sells it, but you also have to decide if some other character should get it- it becomes a benefit for whoever you want. Don't want to use the avatar at all? Make them a thief and give the money away. I'm not sure if "Charm" is the right skill, but dang, I like it.

10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I actually think having them survive Belhalla (or, per my original suggestion, miss it entirely) would work better for the "meta-narrative". If the Avatar is supposed to represent the player, then the player isn't being "killed off". Rather, the player has to live on, and help save Seliph where they were unable to save Sigurd. If the Avatar is killed off at Belhalla, but the game goes on, then they weren't really representing the player, now, were they?

Yeah, so, that's a good point. Reading that, I make the following proposal.

The avatar character survives Part 1 for whatever contrived reason. You get to use them again in Chapter 6, all growed up and stuff. There is one avatar-linked child (two child units would be a little too much bloat) that the player will get to name. This child is of the opposite sex of the avatar, just as Morgan and Kana were (or not, Iunno). If the avatar is unpaired, you get a substitute character instead. I would prefer the avatar not marry any of the Gen2 characters, which may or may not be a losing battle. In this sense the avatar gives you two characters in part 2 (themselves and their child), just like Edain does (Lester and Lana).

Inheritance would be a little iffy here though. For male avatars, they would have three children. I imagine the avatar-linked child would have no inheritance, while Finn inheritance rules would apply to the avatar. Ergo they join with a crappy C-rank weapon. For female avatars, they would only have one child, but two parents to inherit from. That's a bit of an odd situation without precedent to draw from.

10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Seems reasonable enough. Tine getting to use Sol or Luna after promotion could be a fun little gimmick. I wonder, should dismounting be an option, in such a case? Like, promoted Seliph can Dismount in the base game, but he never has any reason to. With this change, however, a weird build like Chulainn!Diarmuid might actually prefer to get off the horse, at least before going into the Arena.

Oh right, dismounting is a thing. Whoops. Uh...I guess it shouldn't be? I don't know. Might take some playtesting to figure that out.

I don't know. I kinda like this "ride a horse and dismount to fight" idea, though. Could be interesting.

Edited March 16, 2022 by AnonymousSpeed

[Tetragrammaton]

I'd like to see how they remake Leif into a new Lance Jr Lord class.

[Jotari]

20 minutes ago, Tetragrammaton said:

I'd like to see how they remake Leif into a new Lance Jr Lord class.

Lane infantry Leif? Hell yeah, I'd be on board for that. I don't see them actually ever doing that, especially since he has the light brand as a signature weapon, but I really wouldn't mind if they altered weapons of certain characters in remakes (perhaps Sword Lance infantry Leif? Surprisingly, there's never really been a Sword Lance infantry class in the series outside of Chrom and Lucina).

[Acacia Sgt]

I'd agree that the "memento from his dead mother" Light Brand is just too iconic/tied to Leif to not have it. To have his Prince class be a sword/lance hybrid (essentially a dismounted cavalier) does sound like a good idea to shake things up. Would also make it more similar to Lachesis' Princess, since it also wields two weapons types, even if one is Staffs.