Fire Emblem needs more tables

[Jotari]

I'm playing Golden Deer in Three Hopes, don't worry, there's no spoilers, and they keep talking about roundtable discussions. And we even see a few where the characters vote on issues. That's cool and all. But you know what we don't see? Any actual round table. It's just a bunch of dudes standing in an empty room. Every conversation in Fire Emblem is just a bunch of dudes standing in an empty room, or an open field. Three Houses's presentation is notoriously bad because of the stretched backgrounds and model based supports and all, but this is not an issue unique to Three Houses. Cinematography in the series has never been great. Of all the games to fix this issue Three Houses was most primed to do so, as most of the scenes took place in locations with fully modeled environments. There eve is a round table in Three Houses! But they only use it for the tutoring sessions. Only time I remember characters actually using a table in the series is in a Radiant Dawn, and even there they didn't use chairs. Sothis and Garon at least have thrones to sit on, but otherwise there is a serious lack of props and environment detail being used in this series. Even seeing characters hold weapons, something that is a requirement for the game to model to begin with, is rare. It's like a low budget stage play. Only unlike a stage play, these characters can not visually emote anywhere close to that of a thespian. So IS, throw some tables into the scene next time. They're unremarkable, but I think they'd add a lot.

(And yes, I'm using dude as a gender neutral term).

Edited July 10, 2022 by Jotari

[Armchair General]

An table wouldn't really work if you're some king who's usually sitting on his throne, though.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Armchair General

[Saint Rubenio]

Stuff like this is why I love Berwick Saga's cutscenes. They're so pretty and detailed. And they have tables! Please disregard the lack of chairs, the Duchy of Narvia didn't have the budget

Anyway, yes, you're right, but FE just generally needs to work on its cutscenes. For most fo the series they've been quite rudamentary. Two faces talking over a simple background, maybe some overworld sprites walking around pretending to do things. The jump to 3D hurt them a lot too, the cutscenes have looked awful in each of FE's 3D games.

4 hours ago, Armchair General said:

An table wouldn't really work if you're some king who's usually sitting on his throne, though.

Berwick's got this covered too.

[Etrurian emperor]

I recall Radiant Dawn having tables. Not just in the international meetings, but in the strategy meetings at camp too.

[ping]

4 hours ago, Armchair General said:

An table wouldn't really work if you're some king who's usually sitting on his throne, though.

King Arthur: "Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

(The idea of a round table at which everybody is equal would rather fit the average, not-too-feudally-thinking FE lord, too)

[Djunna]

Finally, some good discourse on fire emblem. It is pretty weird that they have a roundtable model for the class session scenes and refuse to reuse it anywhere else.

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Armchair General said:

An table wouldn't really work if you're some king who's usually sitting on his throne, though.

So putting aside the rather famous example of Arthur who was brought up, Three Houses and, maybe Mystery of the Emblem and a tiny portion of Radiant Dawn are the only occasions in the series where you actually play as a monarch (and Marth's lack of access to any tables for much of his game is actually pretty reasonable given that he's travelling through wilderness, not that it'd also be odd if one did show up given he stlil has the resources of an army). For most of the series you're playing as some kind of dispossessed prince who has yet to officially take the throne.

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I recall Radiant Dawn having tables. Not just in the international meetings, but in the strategy meetings at camp too.

I was going to question the international meetings as the only tables I remember from Radiant Dawn were the strategy meetings, but then in writing the above comment I remembered there's a still from Elincia POV at the start of part 2 that shows all the nobles sitting at a table looking disgruntled. Good job Radiant Dawn.

[PostZordem]

First off, thanks for not putting in any spoilers relating to Three Hopes. I've just started playing it recently and I'm on my first playthrough in the Golden Wildfire (or Golden Deer) route. I'm enjoying it so far and would hate to have any part of the game spoiled since I like to go into video games blind. I remember Claude discussing the round table meetings since the Alliance needs to meet up whenever they want to make any decisions. Once I got to see what the roundtable meetings looked like, I was a bit disappointed to see that nobody actually sat in the chairs around the table (or at least stood around the roundtable). I can see why there would be no round table meeting needed for the Kingdom or Empire since Dimitri and Edelgard can just make decisions themselves, but as for Claude and the Alliance, it's a necessary thing to do because of the way the Leicester Alliance operates compared to the Holy Kingdom of Faerghus and Adrestian Empire.

One really detailed room (barring the graphics) I can think of is Corrin's Private Quarters in Fates since it has an actual table among other objects in it.  It is a shame that the round table in Three Houses wasn't utilized more as it would've been a perfect place for the characters to hold a meeting to discuss war strategies and whatnot. So yeah, Fire Emblem could definitely use some more props in the in-game cutscenes, especially the support conversations. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by CyberZord

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, CyberZord said:

First off, thanks for not putting in any spoilers relating to Three Hopes. I've just started playing it recently and I'm on my first playthrough in the Golden Wildfire (or Golden Deer) route. I'm enjoying it so far and would hate to have any part of the game spoiled since I like to go into video games blind. I remember Claude discussing the round table meetings since the Alliance needs to meet up whenever they want to make any decisions. Now I haven't gotten to the point in GW where you get to see said round table meetings take place, but if there's no actual round table included, then it kind of ruins the point of it being a round table meeting. I can see why there would be no round table meeting needed for the Kingdom or Empire since Dimitri and Edelgard can just make decisions themselves, but as for Claude and the Alliance, it's a necessary thing to do because of the way the Leicester Alliance operates compared to the Holy Kingdom of Faerghus and Adrestian Empire.

One really detailed room (barring the graphics) I can think of is Corrin's Private Quarters in Fates since it has an actual table among other objects in it.  It is a shame that the round table in Three Houses wasn't utilized more as it would've been a perfect place for the characters to hold a meeting to discuss war strategies and whatnot. So yeah, Fire Emblem could definitely use some more props in the in-game cutscenes, especially the support conversations. 

The literal mention of an actual table that doesn't exist was what sparked it for me, but really Dimitri and Edelgard have as much reason to utilize tables as Claude does. They might not have their sovereignty split in the style of a confederation, but they still meet with generals and advisors and stuff and carry out battle plans wherein a table would be far more natural than a big nondescript hallway.

[BrightBow]

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Stuff like this is why I love Berwick Saga's cutscenes. They're so pretty and detailed. And they have tables! Please disregard the lack of chairs, the Duchy of Narvia didn't have the budget

Anyway, yes, you're right, but FE just generally needs to work on its cutscenes. For most fo the series they've been quite rudamentary. Two faces talking over a simple background, maybe some overworld sprites walking around pretending to do things. The jump to 3D hurt them a lot too, the cutscenes have looked awful in each of FE's 3D games.

They have plenty of chairs and stools, they just don't use them. Maybe they are afraid to wear them down, because furniture is so expensive.

Also, 3D is not the problem. Radiant Dawn is fine. They had plenty of sets only for cutscenes. Though if you would put a table in the 3 Houses engine, the Switch would probably explode.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, BrightBow said:

They have plenty of chairs and stools, they just don't use them. Maybe they are afraid to wear them down, because furniture is so expensive.

Also, 3D is not the problem. Radiant Dawn is fine. They had plenty of sets only for cutscenes. Though if you would put a table in the 3 Houses engine, the Switch would probably explode.

You're right. There's one in the background.

They just don't use it. Again, unless it's for inter chapter gameplay micromanagement features.

I really question how hard it would be to do some camera work and lip syncs with the characters in those positions.

[PostZordem]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

The literal mention of an actual table that doesn't exist was what sparked it for me, but really Dimitri and Edelgard have as much reason to utilize tables as Claude does. They might not have their sovereignty split in the style of a confederation, but they still meet with generals and advisors and stuff and carry out battle plans wherein a table would be far more natural than a big nondescript hallway.

I mean, it's real enough to the point where the objects are interactable since Corrin and their spouse can sit on the bed or chairs next to the aforementioned table. It may not exist outside of the My Castle area, but everything within "My Castle" seems real enough at least, since there's all of the weapons, tomes and staves that you can take and use in battles in Hoshido and Nohr. The buildings themselves also seem legit since they can be destroyed during invasions. So I'd say the table and everything else in the Castle's vicinity just exist in a different realm than not existing entirely, really.

As for your table utilization point, I'll concede on that point in regards to wartime, but I'll provide a counter-argument as well. Dimitri, Edelgard, and Claude can all use round table meetings as a way to formulate a new war strategy with the others in their army, but in terms of the in-game politics of the Three Houses universe, Dimitri and Edelgard can make political decisions without any need to call a meeting since they're King and Emperor respectively, though they may have an advisor assist them in making a choice or two. Claude gets the short end of the stick, though, as he needs to call a meeting with the other 4 Great Alliance Nobles (I think it was called that) in order to make any decisions of importance for the region, regardless of whether it's during a time of war or peace, and they all need to be on the same page in order for anything to really be done.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, CyberZord said:

I mean, it's real enough to the point where the objects are interactable since Corrin and their spouse can sit on the bed or chairs next to the aforementioned table. It may not exist outside of the My Castle area, but everything within "My Castle" seems real enough at least, since there's all of the weapons, tomes and staves that you can take and use in battles in Hoshido and Nohr. The buildings themselves also seem legit since they can be destroyed during invasions. So I'd say the table and everything else in the Castle's vicinity just exist in a different realm than not existing entirely, really.

As for your table utilization point, I'll concede on that point in regards to wartime, but I'll provide a counter-argument as well. Dimitri, Edelgard, and Claude can all use round table meetings as a way to formulate a new war strategy with the others in their army, but in terms of the in-game politics of the Three Houses universe, Dimitri and Edelgard can make political decisions without any need to call a meeting since they're King and Emperor respectively, though they may have an advisor assist them in making a choice or two. Claude gets the short end of the stick, though, as he needs to call a meeting with the other 4 Great Alliance Nobles (I think it was called that) in order to make any decisions of importance for the region, regardless of whether it's during a time of war or peace, and they all need to be on the same page in order for anything to really be done.

Yes, thematically it is by far most appropriate to Claude, but logistically tables are useful to all humans. They're a very basic, very versatile piece of technology that literally everyone makes use of. Claude could, conceivably, not have his table if he organized his meeting Organization XIII style with a bunch of big thrones (and honestly substitutes like that would not be an issue at all), while Edelgard could also go for King Arthur's literal roundtable philosophy as the whole point of it is that everyone is equal (even if there's a king). Exactly how or why they conduct their meetings is kind of superfluous for this discussion, as all of these characters, as leaders, do require meetings, not just hypothetical meetings, meetings we visibly see on screen where they talk to people and decide things. That's the important thing. That you have a bunch of people fathering together to stare at each other and every single time they're doing so standing up in a half circle with the camera doing nothing but shot reverse shot. Why exactly those people are talking matters hugely for the plot and writing elements, but it's not important at all when discussing the cinematography (well, at least it isn't now because they have such minimal use of cinematography, you can tell a story via visuals, but, aside from characters designs, Fire Emblem is so far from ever attempting to do that that it verges on laughable).

[Vicious Sal]

TH and TH also sit at tables when eating food. 

So the tech is there

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

Isn´t there a giant table in the monastery being used for tutoring and stuff after the timeskip? That one closed off room to the, hmmm, left? I think you can even clip through the table. 

 

Other than that.

Steel chairs as weapons.

Tables as shields.

Throw in some alcohol elixirs.

It´ll be a riot.