Schoolteacher Mafia

[Sunwoo]

"Maybe I'll be sorry later" came a lot sooner than I thought it would.

Somebody here had reminded me that the entire mafia community does not know me all that well, and that some of the things I had said could have really hurt people. First and foremost, I do NOT hate anyone at all. I'm not so petty as to actually break friendships over a game. When I get angry, I don't realize what I'm saying. So I end up screaming things I don't really mean, then I realize I was wrong and apologize once I cool down. This is not an excuse for my behavior, of course, but I think it is something you guys should know in case it ever happens again in the future.

I'm sorry that I reacted the way I did, and if I hurt anyone with the things I said or irreparably ruined the mood of the game, I apologize. There are still a few things that I am not happy about, but if anyone cares that can be addressed when this is over. For now, what I can say is that I am sorry to everyone I may have ruined the game for.

[Paperblade]

Also Shinori is obvtown since Blitzdoom was close enough to a Hooker.

[Paperblade]

so I'm going to sheep him

##Vote: Helios

[Kay]

Paperblade is making a good point and Helios is not looking particularly townish anyway so yeah.

##Vote: Helios

[Shinori]

I'm assuming based off these actions being blocked there is a safeguard.

I will also clarify that I did hook helios. I didn't out that right away because I wanted to see responses from him and other players.

[Helios]

If it were as simple as that, then lategame PoE is in effect on Day 2.

OOOOh Ok, so you can simply say "I think he's scum, but it doesn't matter since he's not close to being lynched". Save that crap for the final 10 minutes of a phase. The fact is that the MancerBoron wagon came up pretty damn quickly, and things could've just as easily swung the other way if a serious and logical argument came up. But since your reads were varying (See your scumread on NNR for reference), I tend to think that you're scumhunting was botched from the getgo, and you were just hopping along with the easy backup wagon as a plan, just in case things went sour for SB. Then you could say "I called him scummy X posts ago" and flip over to him without too much negative attention.

So eventually you do this.

>>Provides a list of thoughts

>>Calls them scumreads after the fact

>>Mentions varying degrees of scum here and town there

>>Confused as to why his post is misinterpreted

More questions? Why is SB scummy to you? You still have yet to justify the vote. Is his lurkyness and being forgettable more scummy than everything else that's happened in game? Is that the best argument you have for scumhunting right now? Justify your vote. Obviously you haven't figured out yet who Roleblocked you, but that's the only thing you mentioned in your votepost.

Geez, I swear no one pays attention to me and comes after the obvious things in question. How often do I have to ask until you see my question. Here I'll wordArt it for you, the way you should when you want to post things that are important enough to be organized or designated as such.

Helios, WHY ARE YOU VOTING SB?

But it IS that simple. NekoRex claimed AND flipped townie, Shinori claimed townie (and I completely forgot about Marth/Blitz's flip and thinking about it now that I've gotten some sleep, a kidnapper AND hooker would probably be overkill) so what else is there to do but go down the list when that player (SB in this case) has done absolutely nothing to warrant himself of ANY town cred? My reads never varied; Neko claimed town!vig. Why the hell would I keep trying to lynch him after that? What do you mean by "hopping with the easy wagon as a backup plan"? When did I EVER hop on the easy bandwagon? I didn't even VOTE Mancer, and momentarily thought I had to because I didn't know D1 wasn't a hammer phase. Shinori was my second top scumread due to his actual play in the game (and then later I thought scum!RB > town!RB) and I stuck to him. How the hell am I jumping on the easy bandwagons? This is a bullshit case son.

5/6 of the people I talked about in that post were clearly stated as scumreads. Number 5 is the only part that you could confuse things with "varying town reads" even though I ended it out saying that Manix's playerslot was slightly scummy due to his predecessor. You're really really really exaggerating things here.

Fair enough, I'll give you my case in bullet format so it's (hopefully) nice and clear and beautiful (i honestly loled at the wordart):

• Caught him lurking a few times but never posted anything
• Hasn't provided any content, only time he scumhunted even remotely was his failed case on Rocker
• He suddenly switched from "Mancer and Shinori are intown fighting" to "lol Mancer is obvscum" when the wagon built up on him
• His last post before this states that he thinks Shinori is scummy for claiming early after he's been considering him town all game.
• He's been extremely forgettable all game, and still would be if I didn't vote him at the start of D2.

On a side note: I really hope that people are looking at this Kay vote on me. This is the definition of opportunism at it's finest. Doesn't do crap the entire game and votes on the biggest wagon that's happening right now.

I've got 5 votes on me right now...should I just out my claim then so we quit wasting time on me (though I'm flattered by all the attention from the ladies) and actually hunt scum?

[Baldrick]

I will also clarify that I did hook helios.

Well, there goes my entire argument. I'm not going to get what I came for anyway.

##Unvote:

Scumreading later.

[scorri]

Honestly, both Paper's and Kay's votes were kinda horrible. They're both just sheeping someone who's probably town and giving no reasoning for it. Paper: Just cause you're proven town doesn't mean you get to be lazy. Do your own scum hunting. If you think Helios is scum, explain why. Don't just say "Well, Shinori's probably town, lets follow him." Just because someone is town doesn't mean their reasoning is always correct. For that matter, I have yet to see an explanation of why Helios is actually scum. Anyone?

Moving on past that, I'm going to

##Vote:Kaoz

I'd like to hear your thoughts please.

[NekoRex]

Forgot I could Bah! post.

One of these days I will survive/participate longer then a single day phase.

Regardless, I think I'll keep an eye on this game.

Will be rooting for the home team, of course.

:3

[Prims]

Also, I'm not even going to address the part that's striked out, but if the remainder was your method of actual scumhunting, I'm far from impressed.

Kaoz needs to provide content, fast. I can't actually get anything out of his ISO because of how little he has posted. I can't really call him a "scum read" because there's nothing to read but I think he may be scum. Same could be said of Kay but her posts feel like she's rushing them due to time; Kaoz is just unmemorable.

##Vote: Manix

re-read turns up Bluedoom taking a lot of potshots at Lucina but actually voting and suspecting the players who were on Lucina's wagon. This is a BS double standard that looks like shitty distancing. Then in #234 NNR is a better wagon than Manix for no well-explained reason. There's also Lucina's ED1 vote on the now-flipped Mancer slot which is still terribly forced.

BBM's case on SB is 10/10 would sheep. I'm OK with that lynch today but don't have anything else to add. Helios lynch is also fine by me due to his super weak reasons for sticking on NNR's wagon during D1. I think the last scum are probably between the four I've suspected in this post... though thinking about it, I actually prefer Helios lynch to SB since Bluedoom was buddying SB pretty hard D1 under circumstances where it wasn't necessary for scum to defend a buddy, which makes me think Bluedoom was treating SB like he would treat a townie.

scorri is likely town; I had problems with her D1 but re-read generally gives me good vibes and her NNR vote looks the least likely to be taking advantage of circumstances due to wagon position.

Rocker is unmemorable but his attitude about the listposting seems less scummy and more comparable to annoyed town!Core from CMV. I also think his ED1 leaned town. Still want more from him like I have all game, even though this game is a pain to re-read.

[Grace]

mmhmm Prims, sure. Because apparently I've gone from being "super obvtown" (I vaguely recall you said that, or something to that effect) to being a scum again. I'm honestly not quite sure how that works.

Anyway, better address stuff.

re-read turns up Bluedoom taking a lot of potshots at Lucina but actually voting and suspecting the players who were on Lucina's wagon. This is a BS double standard that looks like shitty distancing.

Or just an effort to make my playerslot look bad for an easy mislynch (tip: it would have been easy to push a mislynch based on associative tells if my playerslot had stayed in).

Then in #234 NNR is a better wagon than Manix for no well-explained reason.

And how is that a problem with me? I can't decide what stupid wagons scum is going to push. If you're going to say it's because I was a better target then shrug

There's also Lucina's ED1 vote on the now-flipped Mancer slot which is still terribly forced.

I literally can't defend this because no reason was even given in my Role PM (tip: I inherited it from the other two) and damned if I know what Lucina was thinking. Yes, it was awful, but I can't do anything about it now.

[Prims]

mmhmm Prims, sure. Because apparently I've gone from being "super obvtown" (I vaguely recall you said that, or something to that effect) to being a scum again. I'm honestly not quite sure how that works.

Interactions with scum > feelings.

[Prims]

specifically DAY 1 feelings not in general but it's not impossible for scum to write posts that look townie

[Paperblade]

I like how Manix's first reaction is to attack Prims

[Elieson]

Hey hey, Helios finally posted reasons. And here I thought no one listened to me anymore >:|

First off, shinori claimed town. Excellent, he must be proven town then...i didnt know it worked like that. Second, soneone didnt read the rules about Day1 lynching. Y U So Lazy? Third, your bland bullet list said things like kinda scummy or leaning scum. That's not a strong scumread, that's a mild scumread. Which implies you don't have much as reads.

Bullets 1, 2, and 5 fall mostly under Serious Bameta, but I can see where the others are coming from. Hell i pursued SB for a chunk of Day1 (but no one would remember if you didnt bring it up...?) Also the easy wagon I was referring to was SB, not Shinori or anyone else.

@Prims, much better, though I can barely read that pic on my phone...put it in a big bold announcement so I can read it plzkthx ilu2. Sheesh I swear no one respects old guys who try to figure these things out.

@Kay...do you have anything beyond "What they said €€Vote ? Paper at least has a claim with Prims to make his lazybad sheeping sorta wavable. You (and SB and Kaoz for that matter) do not.

Still feel that Scumios or Bascumnas should be lynched today, and I'm confident the flip of one determines the other.

[Paperblade]

Shinori is confirmed town because he claimed and proved Hooker when we have a flipped Mafia Hookerkidnapper

[Grace]

I like how Manix's first reaction is to attack Prims

is this sarcasm or not? would be nice to know.

[Paperblade]

yes

[Elieson]

Shinori is confirmed town because he claimed and proved Hooker when we have a flipped Mafia Hookerkidnapper

I only read kidnapper.

[Paperblade]

- During the night, you may respond to your role PM with "Night X - Let's boogie, <PLAYER>!" You will give the Triple Triad lesson of <PLAYER>'s life; as a result, they will fail to do their night action, all night actions targeting them will fail, and they will not participate in main discussion during the next day (this is known as "kidnapping").

[Grace]

Interactions with scum > feelings.

You're attacking me for what they did, and not what I did.

Slight difference there because scum can do stuff like what Marth did to anyone (read: townies) and apparently townies can be scummy for that? Like, I can see a little bit of relevance but it shouldn't be the basis for your entire case.

[Helios]

@Elieson: I had slight reads on Marth (which progressively grew higher), Manix (which progressively grew smaller) and Kay (which has been shooting up a ton). Had strong reads on NekoRex, Shinori, and SB. That's 6 reads, or above a third of the game. How is that "not a lot of reads"? I'm not allowed to have stronger reads on some players than others anymore or else I don't have a lot of reads?Again, you're exaggerating. And me forgetting a rule that is normally not in games isn't a scumtell. You overlooked Blitz's Role PM and missed that his action hooks, therefore you are scum! If you're going to keep trying to push my lynch based off weak reasons like this you're borderline tunneling, which doesn't make you look any better.

Also Manix, you said you'd actually look into things and make a vote, but all you've done while you've been around is prepare your anus for a defense against any potential attackers. Who do you want lynched this phase and why?

@Prims: You would bring some copypasta into this lol. I looked back at my case on Neko and calling them "weak reasons" is a stretch and you're using hindsight with his flip, especially when most people agreed with me at the time that Neko wasn't looking good. I see your thought process behind the Manix vote but I'm not really understanding your switches from "Lucinallen is scum" to "Manix is like super town sheep sheep" to "Manix is scum lynch lynch lynch" when he hasn't really done anything differently and has played fairly well since subbing in, so you should probably take that into account. I think there are better lynches atm than Manix's based on the reasoning provided.

[Grace]

Prims' opinion flip flop on me is actually making me feel a little bit weird about him, but I don't think it's enough to push any sort of case on so shrug

Also Manix, you said you'd actually look into things and make a vote, but all you've done while you've been around is prepare your anus for a defense against any potential attackers. Who do you want lynched this phase and why?

Yeah okay the magical power of being completely lazy kicked in hard. Right now, I would like a SB lynch. Here's why:

On to SB.

I feel Mancer and Shinori are in-town fighting

If I think Shinori is town then there's no point in reaction testing him when a. he isn't here, and b. some others haven't got much out to judge them on, so I'd prefer to see something from them rather than Shinori/Mancer in-town fighting again.

Out of 5 posts he's mentioned Shinori/Mancer being intown fighting in two different posts. Note the change from "I feel" to being fairly definitive about it. Something I feel needs noting, but isn't something major yet.

Scratch the "isn't something major yet" part, because it's now relevant in light of flips. How could SB have been so sure about the two in-town fighting? Honestly, it doesn't look great. Furthermore:

and Mancer's fake was horribad.

And yet, it wasn't a fake. SB's vote was mostly a sheep vote and because Mancer's claim was unbelivable, from what I can tell. Uh that's not good.

The flipflop of opinions is reallllllly weird as well. (ie: Mancer is town > Mancer is scum for no particularly good reason)

I'm mind of busy right now but I'm just gonna say my action failed too, so Baldrick jumping on Helios is unjustified.

And then drops a vote on Baldrick for... just that? That's really flimsy reasoning imo. Also doesn't look great.

##Vote: SB

[BBM]

itg Prims says that Rocker is Core's alt

But seriously, you can't compare Rocker to Core's meta, that's dumb. Listposting isn't necessarily scummy, but Rocker's are because he just gives a bunch of town and null reads and then sheeps onto some wagon at the end. The thing that really irked me about that post was that he admits that his Paper read is sheeping, but acts like his Mancer vote isn't.

[Elieson]

Helios, is a hooker the same as a kidnapper?

Is an Omniguard considered the same as a Doc? How about a lawyer/framer vs a Tailor, or a role cop vs a full cop?

I guess I'll just visit the mafia wiki and research past games to see how kidnapping ad roleblock are considered one in the same.

I didn't overlook the hook part in Blitzs flip. I read Kidnapping, which implies hooking, and removing from day conversation (which isn't the same as a hook)

And I'm not calling you scummy for misreading rules, I'm calling you lazy for it. Which if anything is antitown. Many of your claimed reads were slight leans. That isn't decisive town that you usually push people to be like (yes this part is Helios meta).

I would pursue Kay or Kaoz or SB of they were here as they are my next strongest scumreads, but they aren't around. So I'm working with what I've got.