Shining Force 2 Mafia: Game Over

[Grace]

also re role deleter/role thief/vanillzer/whatever the heck you want to call it spec: this game isn't bastard so there is likely a counter and that's why you should have shut up about your role Sho arghaslkjasdfasdf

[Grace]

Cuz aside from BBM you had more no. of posts related to that( and well I did make a mental note of BBM too but hey he did claim now)

Actually this probably has to do with you posting trains of thought in consecutive posts (reference pages 4 and 5) which made me thing you wasted more time about Miller and related discussion.

k, response noted marf. i'll extrapolate during D1 if it becomes relevant again.

c/p'ing straight from thoughts QT:

"Your response was fine, but why did you feel the need to note that BBM had claimed? Did that suddenly make him less suspicious or something?"

this is why i dun like marth as much right now given bbm isn't looking the best. i'll put anything else i gather from my reread in a larger post later and stop postspamming

[eclipse]

@Eclipse- Good job misrepping me again. Like you said, you don't think other things are that important. So why is that? Why didn't you find any of the Marth discussion important enough to comment on at all? For that matter, why do you think questioning someone you are slightly suspicious of (Bizz) is less important than asking Prims why he announced how many abilities he has? If people aren't interested in lynching Bizz today, they're most certainly not interested in lynching Prims today.

You're the one getting all fired up 'cause I don't share priorities with you. I don't think Marth is important because I don't think he's important. You'll just have to deal with the fact that what you think warrants attention isn't the same as what I think; you don't see me getting on your case because you didn't think Bizz is a priority. Do I look like I care if everyone else bandwagons my voting/logic? I do what I do for my own reads, and if anyone else agrees with me, that's just great. If not, I'm not going to start arguing with them.

I found it odd that Prims wanted to hide his abilities, and not how many he had. The latter has no bearing on his case, so it makes no sense to reveal it. Just as it makes no sense for you to complain about people misrepping you when you are clearly making a big deal out of something trivial. I am perfectly content to leave my vote where it is.

[Kriemhild]

Oh, boy, I missed a whole lot. But first, Happy Chinese New Year everyone!

Night 0 Results:

Just as you prepare to take flight from HQ to follow [sNIP], you feel something holding you back, like things just aren't normal. In fact, they are assuredly not normal! Your wings are gone, and so is your Role!

You may no longer use your role, and your RolePM has been modified accordingly.

Anyhow, ShoM's claim of losing his role is quite interesting. It's possible that he's scum and faking it, but I doubt that because he has no reason to draw attention to himself D1.

As for how he lost his role, there are many possibilities. I personally think ShoM probably targeted a Paranoid Gun Owner or something, and that he was supposed to die, but since there are no deaths on N0, it was converted into role loss. Besides, ShoM heavily implied that he's Peter (only other character with wings is like... Jaro), and I wouldn't be surprised if Peter's abilities involved auto-resurrection of some sort. Maybe he loses his abilities instead of dying.

I very much doubt ShoM was culted, because he wouldn't just announce his ability loss like that. ShoM isn't an idiot.

Bizz's reaction to ShoM's claim is perfectly understandable, since it's Bizz. I'd be very upset myself if there were a permanent role deleter.

In any case, there's no reason to assume that ShoM's role loss is permanent, and there's always the possibility that he'll get it back later. Based on that, I find Snike to be a little suspicious for pushing ShoM to claim that role. Even if it's caused by a Role Thief, it doesn't mean that the Role Thief is Mafia; it could be a Town Role Thief that targeted ShoM because a) he has a pretty bad survival rate in Mafia and b) ShoM tends to be underestimated a lot so the Thief may have felt that they could have utilized ShoM's role better and c) Thief may have thought that ShoM is scum. I'm not saying that if I were a Role Thief, I'd have targeted ShoM, but I can certainly see the possibility of the Role Thief being Town. Role Deleter is certainly scummy, but there'd be no point for ShoM to roleclaim then.

However, Prims has found more definitive proof of scum in the form of a JoaT investigation, so I'm gonna have to go with ##Vote: Loocy

[Grace]

Okay going on record with a flavor claim here to clear up some stuff I've been saying:

Dear Manix, you are Sir Astral.

You are technically not an actual member of the Force, but you are the advisor to King Granseal and the Shining Force, and quite versed in the knowledge of ancient magical arts and ancient history. Because you know of the evils brought on to the world when Zeon was unsealed, you are aware of the Gizmo's ability of body possession *snip*

*snip*

You are allied with the Shining Force. You win when all threats to you and your fellow Shining Force members have been eliminated.

looking at sho's flavor over here confirms my own (see bolded).

I'm pretty sure it's not a role thief, just some form of vanillzer. Snike's comments about a role thief can't be right. So that's a nullity null.

The vanillzer is scumsided, end of story. All other spec can gtfo.

You might have been culted and lost your role, for all we know.

I super highly doubt that. Also lul cult I doubt it.

facepalm. There was a lot more you could do with your vote Helios, at this time, so why in the world did you choose to place it on someone for a super weak reason???

hi confirmed scum; this post is bad and scummy (holding out on voting; wth?). etc etc cop scan lynch this please

BBM went on a misrep spree which damned if I'm not noting.

etc etc the rest of the stuff wasn't particularly noticeable/i'm getting lazy

[Percivalé]

hi I just got back so I can concentrate now, give me a bit to reread and post seriously now (from the top of my head I really like Snike's responses though and I don't have a scumread on him anymore)

first off though I don't think Prims is faking his scan. if Lucina isn't scum THEN we can worry about it but I doubt it.

Prims taking what I say in a spoiler tag as serious game content though

[Prims]

Proto, do you have any reads unrelated to night results?

[Kriemhild]

Okay going on record with a flavor claim here to clear up some stuff I've been saying:

looking at sho's flavor over here confirms my own (see bolded).

I'm pretty sure it's not a role thief, just some form of vanillzer. Snike's comments about a role thief can't be right. So that's a nullity null.

The vanillzer is scumsided, end of story. All other spec can gtfo.

I super highly doubt that. Also lul cult I doubt it.

facepalm. There was a lot more you could do with your vote Helios, at this time, so why in the world did you choose to place it on someone for a super weak reason???

hi confirmed scum; this post is bad and scummy (holding out on voting; wth?). etc etc cop scan lynch this please

BBM went on a misrep spree which damned if I'm not noting.

etc etc the rest of the stuff wasn't particularly noticeable/i'm getting lazy

Gizmo's ability of Body Possession is a story thing, which is also why it was mentioned in the first paragraph. Anyhow, it doesn't match with ShoM's flavor at all, since the victim is supposed to retain their body, but ShoM lost his wings. Basically, if a Gizmo were in the game, it would involve changing the target's alignment from Town to Mafia, while keeping the ability untouched. Besides, Gizmo is a generic enemy, so I highly doubt it's in the game (unless in the form of King Granseal, which is very possible, but would lack possession abilities).

Basically, I'm pretty sure your flavor and ShoM's are completely unrelated.

[Grace]

Flavor doesn't have to match completely and besides at the least it's implied

anyway less flavorspec, I needed to get that out of the way to clear further confusion up regarding the vanillzer

[Kriemhild]

Proto, do you have any reads unrelated to night results?

I rarely have reads based on posting style. I prefer to work with solid data, not fluffy posts, sorry.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Actually Proto, I am not Peter but...

Dear Sho.M.the.tits, you are Screech.

You are the young birdling of Bedoe, who was blessed with an incredible ability to mature quickly. You are also a skilled aerial combatant (not really) and have the unique talent to not be hindered by Land Effect. However, your hit points are low, and due to this, you are often eliminated quickly in battle.

During the night, you may respond to your RolePM with "Night X: I'm not as strong as you, so I'll support you from the sky in combat against [uSER]." You will learn the alignment of [uSER]. Depending on a specific player, something else may happen as well.

In short, you are the Alignment Cop Vanilla.

You are allied with the Shining Force. You win when all threats to you and your fellow Shining Force members have been eliminated.

[Kriemhild]

Sorry, I forgot about the birdmen because they fail so hard gameplay-wise.

Also, misspelling of Skreech, hmmm...

Anyhow, I stand by my point that ShoM's ability loss was NOT caused by a Gizmo. ShoM, would you mind revealing who you tried to target last night? I'm still curious about my PGO theory and I don't think there's any harm in exposing your target when you never even received results of it.

[Grace]

proto more opinions on actual content: who do you want lynched today (besides lucina)?

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Actually your PGO made me think that instead of removing the target's role, maybe said person takes the first role to target him/her. Thus I feel like not putting humongous target on said person

[NekoRex]

I woke up to 3 pages of :posts: and didn't get much out of them so far except a copscan with a scum result and the info about the vanillaizer.

Also I remembered the reason I'm bad at huge games is because I tend to information overload really easily.

No reads so far but I dunno what the votecount is at so I'll wait to vote Lucina.

[Prims]

I rarely have reads based on posting style. I prefer to work with solid data, not fluffy posts, sorry.

I'm assuming this is a no? Why do you have to answer defensively instead of just stating "no, I don't have any more reads right now"?

[Kriemhild]

proto more opinions on actual content: who do you want lynched today (besides lucina)?

Slightly suspicious of Snike and BBM, not enough to warrant a lynch. I think Bizz and ShoM are Town though.

I'm assuming this is a no? Why do you have to answer defensively instead of just stating "no, I don't have any more reads right now"?

Because you specifically asked for reads that had nothing to do with night results.

[Xinnidy]

Ok 3DS battery died, now is as good a time as ever to try to get what I read and see what I can out with it. Hopefully with less bad wording while I'm at it.

To begin with, I don't like Rocker's or Lucina's behavior throughout this thread. Lucina is kind of a moot point now since her leaving the thread pretty much screamed scum, but Rocker had a lot of chance to answer back and still has the chance to, but hasn't done so, meanwhile I caught him looking at the topic at times. There's not really much to look at from those two post-wise, either. I find Rocker scummy and Lucina is all but confirmed.

I don't know what to think of sho after what Manix just claimed, however, though he's very likely to be town. I suspected him to be either Luke or Skreech, so it's nice that I probably got something right. =) I think gizmo would be more than a vanillizer, though, his ability of body-possessing could mean that maybe he'll appear as sho's old role in inspections, or something like that? From what is said in Manix's role PM, I don't think he's just a vanillizer and that's it.

Additionaly, Sho's AC claim makes me feel less worried about Snike's Miller claim. I really need to look up his posts better but eh... :/

I find Bizz behavior with regards to his role to be town-sided.Outing that his role is scummy by itself is counter-intuitive for mafia. To be fair, I didn't analyze much, but his play seems normal to me, if not a bit over the place at times due to what I believe is tiredness.

If not Lucina, I'd be okay with a Rocker lynch today.

Sometimes I wish I didn't type so slowly that I had to preview multiple times to check for new posts. x.x

[Kriemhild]

Depending on a specific player' date=' something else may happen as well.[/s']

Really, I think it's far more likely that the role less was a result of who you targeted and has nothing to do with who targeted you. Therefore, I very much doubt it's an active Vanillizer, Role Thief, or Role Deleter. Could be a passive version of those roles but that's probably too broken imo. Basically, I think it's something specific to ShoM (since that statement was on his role PM), so unless other players have similar statements in their role PM, it's probably not something to worry about.

[Snike]

This is taking both sides. How can you not see that saying somebody's tone is inappropriate and then saying they have a good point is taking both sides of the argument? And yeah, scum can have good points, but that doesn't change the fact that calling someone out like that at the same time as saying they have a good point allows you to backtrack after a mislynch and wash your hands clean. And yeah, I saw your point about there being bigger fish to fry. That doesn't change the validity of my point, which ISN'T just that you had "mixed feelings" about everyone. The point, I repeat, was that you're setting yourself up to backtrack after a mislynch.

You literally just made that point up on the spot. Especially considering what I said about tone and what I said about content are two entirely unrelated statements. If you honestly expect me to engineer a lynch on Helios, which ends up with him flipping town, then I try and fall back on the fact that I said he made some good points, or vice-versa I blame his tone, I don't know what to say.

In any case, there's no reason to assume that ShoM's role loss is permanent, and there's always the possibility that he'll get it back later. Based on that, I find Snike to be a little suspicious for pushing ShoM to claim that role. Even if it's caused by a Role Thief, it doesn't mean that the Role Thief is Mafia; it could be a Town Role Thief that targeted ShoM because a) he has a pretty bad survival rate in Mafia and b) ShoM tends to be underestimated a lot so the Thief may have felt that they could have utilized ShoM's role better and c) Thief may have thought that ShoM is scum. I'm not saying that if I were a Role Thief, I'd have targeted ShoM, but I can certainly see the possibility of the Role Thief being Town. Role Deleter is certainly scummy, but there'd be no point for ShoM to roleclaim then.

I think I accounted for the town role-thief in option A of my 'thesis defence'. I am also not agreeing with the town!thief spec reasonings given that A shouldn't be factored in on Night 0 and B and C demonstrate a lapse in judgement of hypo-thief, not to mention that you either dismissed or ignored my reasoning for asking for the role.

@Manix: I'm not sure how that confirms it's vanillizer for certain, given that body possession somewhat implies that the body (with the role) is still in play, so wouldn't that point towards more like a role thief/Mimic(I just remembered the role name) type of role? Sidenote: if it is vanillizer, that would work into option B of my 'thesis' where I promptly look like an ass.

Another thing that's bugging me is that Sho's result log's timestamp is odd, given that it looks like it was sent at the 9 hours announcement. If anyone's comfortable with answering this, did anyone else get a result around that time? Maybe I'm just paranoid, if that's the case.

[eclipse]

If you see me in the thread, it's probably because I forgot to close the tab.

Proto, less rolespec/flavorspec (which isn't concrete, because the roles in question haven't flipped), more scumhunting. Do you believe Sho is worth a vote, based on your posts with flavorspec?

Will wait for BBM's reply, but I wouldn't mind lynching him if Lucina were to drop dead before the lynch is over.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Sound rather bastardly of a mod to make me just flat out vanilla should i target player X

...oh wait

[Grace]

Another thing that's bugging me is that Sho's result log's timestamp is odd, given that it looks like it was sent at the 9 hours announcement. If anyone's comfortable with answering this, did anyone else get a result around that time? Maybe I'm just paranoid, if that's the case.

Quote tags adapt around the person's timezone who's quoting it (see how what I'm quoting now is at 11:31 AM, when it isn't that time for you)

[Grace]

also I have further reasons as to why i'm sure it's vanillzer but they're a *secret*

[Prims]

I would be very happy if Lucina were to drop dead before the lynch were over.

Sho, post Read on Player instead of role garbage thank you