Super C9++ - Game over, Town Wins!

[scorri]

Prims: Real quick before I sleep. In my defense, I was prodding an inactive who didn't really have any content posts at a point when I thought that the days lynch was set. Since that's no longer true, tomorrow, when it's not 3 in the morning, I'm planning on going through ISO's and a reread of the thread again and hopefully finding a better place to drop my vote. Until then though, I sleep.

[Grace]

okay brain really isn't in the mindset for this but let's have a shot

Manix, you read my ISO, said "hey these don't really look like buddy interactions so I'm just going to dismiss them due to ed1 gutread".

that said i did scan over BBM's iso just then and blah i can see from interactions but he might not be scum but i still have a bad feeling

(bolded mine)

please oh please tell me how I "dismissed" those interactions for my "ed1 gutread" (which in it's own right is a misrep because i'm basing still on the case i made ld1). yes i mentioned my ed1 gutread that i left a note for, but it is not the entirety of my case.

i'll put it this way: at that point in time i was starting to doubt my read on you a little because of said interactions but later i decided that i was going to push this based on other content.

And also, your meta on me not overreacting is faulty. Refer to Trainwreck if you want examples of me overreacting as town. It was far worse than here, actually. IIRC Boron had me yelling and swearing in caps as part of her sig at one point.

i addressed this kind of while I was out, but I also want to mention that trainwreck is still an isolated case (and psych also trolled you into that situation so it was more justified there). as town, you generally (key word) don't react this badly to pressure.

On a more serious note, Manix, saying that BBM is overreacting to the point that any townie would do is a bit faulty. Personally, my worst overreactions have been as town. I mean, I suppose he could be overreacting for being BBM, but it shouldn't be a major point against him.

depends on context more, but townies generally shouldn't react too badly to pressure, because it makes it harder for them and the town to get good reads, etc

also note that this entire point about his reactions is not just a meta point against him, because if someone else reacted similarly I would probably get on their case as well (the content behind the reaction/defenses is also part of the reason)

prims post: re rapier; at that time i'm pretty sure ssg hadn't cc'ed and rapier said he wanted strege to prove his role that night, but rapier hasn't shown since. i'll reread rapier after this post but i was townreading him d1 so :/

BBM: Changed my mind at the start of the day. I already mentioned this.

unless you really don't think divulging the reasons is a good idea, why did you change your mind exactly?

(note: this is the thing that pinged me because scum!prims likes randomly defending/townreading a scumbuddy for no explicable reason)

[Prims]

Forgot about the early interactions between Strege and Shinori at the time I first proposed them as buddies.

I guess it's still remotely possible since Shinori was voting me instead of Strege for most of the day, but I'm more interested in Rapier and the unmemorables right now.

[BBM]

Scum!Prims only defends a buddy if they're about to be lynched (and even then, only earlygame). Shinori is under some pressure, but nothing that would really warrant Prims jumping in, since Shinori hasn't really been active enough to garner a lot of suspicion.

Of course townies shouldn't overreact. But nobody plays optimally all the time, so saying that townies don't overreact is wrong. My play this game hasn't been that good, partially due to a bad start that frustrated me a lot and is still frustrating me. But bad play doesn't mean scummy play.

I'll respond to the rest later since 5 am and all.

SB, why did you call out Rapier for not voting Strege and then not vote him yourself?

[charlie_]

SB, scorri, and Cap'n Flint: You guys need to talk more. I can't get good reads on you guys if you guys have little material. SB, I know that you're around and available more often than you show yourself in mafia. What is your excuse (aside from not feeling mafia)?

Pretty much =/

SB, why did you call out Rapier for not voting Strege and then not vote him yourself?

ok thanks sf but it was bbm saying this

Because he unvoted him when it looked like it was taking off and tried to counterwagon one of my townreads.

Gonna reread after a shower.

[charlie_]

oh sf did get it right

this new system never fails to confuse me

[Tables]

I have bad internet right now and can't make a content post but read the rules about voting (don't need to unvote before revoting)

Indeed. I don't see a need to the bureaucracy of forcing you to type ##Unvote when you're changing your vote, when the fact you've specified a new person you're voting gives away you're changing anyway.

Vote count 2.2 (Updated to post 331)

BBM (3): Kay, Manix, Sangyul

Kay (1): Serious Bananas

Shin (1): BBM

Rapier (1): Witch

Cap'n Flint (1): Scorri

Not voting (6): Rapier, Cap'n Flint, Strege, Liquid Snake, Super Serious Gal, Shinori, Paperblade

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is June 1st, 10:28pm GMT

[Shin]

Tables, Paper died, I should be in not voting instead :P.

Shin is probably scum for calling out Manix's vote as funny in his first post while pushing me and Strege being buddies eight minutes later. Strege pushing Shin while not ever voting him is also a point against him. Bussing IMO.

Someone can't read, DDN! I said the fact that you were trying to put the heat on Strege would either make it a gambit or a jerk move, implying that it's an unlikely scum action. Which is also why I didn't vote you, but you seem to be acting mighty funky! I'm really not getting your line of thought.

It seems I've become BBM's next blame victim, again with the direct comparisons of our actions. Rather than getting information, it seems he's doing his best to shake everybody off of him.

I still don't like Rapier. He joined the Strege wagon "until he gets a better read", and swapped to BBM when things looked bad for Strege. He even gave Strege an "I'll give you a chance to prove yourself tonight" when things were pretty bad. Unless there's some spiritual meaning behind this, I don't think you can blag that I didn't read it, Rapier :P.

##Vote: Rapier

BBM looks bad, but you look worse. It would make more sense on your part than his.

[BBM]

Okay, it seems I misunderstood what you meant by me trying to bush blame onto Strege. That doesn't make the rest of the case invalid though, and you completely misrepresent my case against you by saying it's a comparison with me when it isn't.

SB, why does Rapier voting for a townread of your's make him scummy? And you do know that the unvote came right after the claim, right? This vote feels too easy to me.

[Tables]

Tables, Paper died, I should be in not voting instead :P.

Fixing now. I misdid a thing in the formula. Probably won't retroactively update the vote count because it's not important.

[Shinori]

so I haven't been around but I'm here now and I'm gonna work on getting caught up right now.

[Shinori]

I've got an idea of what I'm gonna do I believe I just haven't got my words typed up in a post. It'll come out sometime tonight though.

[Grace]

i'm so damn lazy (i got distracted yesterday, and brain is finally catching up with me today)

rereading rapier now, as promised

i'll also scan over bbm/sb/shin/boron

[Prims]

Wow, where did everybody go? Slow game. I'm not sure Rapier and Blitz have even made D2 posts yet.

[Grace]

okay so i reread rapier

i still think is ed1 was pretty town based, but his strege points/vote switch do look bad (only thing is metatell =/= metatell + pushing on ssg vote, so that's a complete lie)

i'd half consider lynching him but not really a priority right now

i need to reread strege too because of this blah

[Grace]

but his strege points/vote switch do look bad (only thing is metatell =/= metatell + pushing on ssg vote, so that's a complete lie)

context post btw, look at the paragraph after the vote

[Grace]

okay so next point I want to discuss is the interactions between bbm/strege; because there's things like

I didn't (and don't) think that BBM defending Manix is out of character for him since in my experience he tends to attack votes he doesn't see as valid no matter who they're pointed at. Him comparing his activity to Prims' here and (to a lesser extent) here seems like possibly scummy redirection though. BBM, do you think Prims is scummy right now?

this and [url=http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40281&p=2413892]this entire post which give completely mixed signals to me as to whether it's scum pushing on scum or scum pushing on town

like looking at it in more detail confirms that looking into this is not going to help my read, so that's why i pushed a different avenue

not at all sure what to think of shin/strege interactions either, gut says shin is town over scum though

[Grace]

wow fuck i screwed up that up, gimme a sec

[Grace]

I didn't (and don't) think that BBM defending Manix is out of character for him since in my experience he tends to attack votes he doesn't see as valid no matter who they're pointed at. Him comparing his activity to Prims' here and (to a lesser extent) here seems like possibly scummy redirection though. BBM, do you think Prims is scummy right now?

this and this entire post which give completely mixed signals to me as to whether it's scum pushing on scum or scum pushing on town

like looking at it in more detail confirms that looking into this is not going to help my read, so that's why i pushed a different avenue

not at all sure what to think of shin/strege interactions either, gut says shin is town over scum though

[Grace]

finally fixed it ugh

[Sunwoo]

I'm really sorry about this, my thesis work is taking up a lot more of my time than I had expected and it's hard to focus on both mafia and work. Everyone else's inactivity certainly isn't helping, either. So in other words I STILL have not had the chance to reread, ugh.

I'm going to go on gut reads at the moment since I have nothing else.

Let's see ... scorri vote-parked on Blitz in the beginning of the phase for "having less scum reads than me" and then proceeded to disappear herself. Blitz himself is inactive and pursued Prims to the exclusion of most everyone else (if I am not remembering incorrectly). I know SB is plenty online and it's aggravating that "I'm not feeling mafia" is his excuse for not being active enough in this game. Strider's reaction test via faking cop was a little weird. I can certainly understand the motivation for doing it, but his reasons when asked was "I wanted to see how people would react and to see who to look at," but has not followed through on giving his thoughts on people who "jumped on the wagon" or done anything. Plus, it forced Kay to claim and I'm not pleased about that.

Rapier and Shin ... ugh. I am not sure what to think about Rapier. I'll have to look through his posts in conjunction with the context and the material present at the time before I can make up my mind on him. I feel that Shin is being goofy, not scummy.

##Unvote

##Vote: SB

I'm going to stop tunneling on BBM for the time being and focus elsewhere, because I feel that people who are being inactive with no excuse need more pressure. SB, what are your reads?

[Kay]

Because he unvoted him when it looked like it was taking off and tried to counterwagon one of my townreads.

What does the part about them being your townread have to do with it?

also not sure it's really scummy but I don't think I've ever seen Prims this apathetic before.

[Prims]

I have more D2 content than half the game, including you.

who are the mafias kay

[Blitz]

Alright finally here, firstly, I am not liking the BBm wagon or Rein's inactivity for that matter (I know, I shouldn't be one to talk, but I have the excuse of strikes)

the BBm wagon irks me because Boron and Manix seems to be pusing this case too hard, but what I am not liking allong with this hard push is the fact that they are both trying to make it look like they are unsure of the case (Imo, it is weird to push someone this hard when you are so unsure of the case). There is a possibility I am thinking this because my meta says BBm is town, but I do not think that is the case.

@Manix and Boron, do you have any other scum reads at the moment?

now regarding the death of the previous night, there was only one death, which kinda points that there was only one night kill unless lucky protection or same night target taken by both, which I guess is a possibility cause Paperblade was the towniest one in the group Imo and gave the main push for the Strege wagon.

I would also like to ask SSG to out her target last night if she doesn't mind disclosing it (especially asking if it was Paperblade, in wihich case you should just asnwer thsi bit)

I do not get what Kay meant by the trying to frame her for being a killer thing because I do not see how she would suspect there to be a killer. Care to explain how you came to the idea of the existence of the killer Kay?

Regarding the mason clear, I think s/he should try keep her/himself hidden unless should feel the necissity to out.

I think Prims has some good points about the Rapier thing, but I am more interested in Rein at the moment

##Vote: Rein

[Blitz]

cut by other peopel plus the forgotten bold

##Vote: Rein