Super C9++ - Game over, Town Wins!

[Prims]

is your only issue with Rein his inactivity? What do you think about his D1 + fake cop claim?

[Blitz]

I was thinking inactivity was the reason for which he did not exand on his thoughts, do you think differently?

[Prims]

can't tell what you're trying to say X:

either way, what do you think the intent behind his cop fake was? was it scummy in your opinion?

[Grace]

but what I am not liking allong with this hard push is the fact that they are both trying to make it look like they are unsure of the case (Imo, it is weird to push someone this hard when you are so unsure of the case).

quote my stuff because if you read my uncertainty only exists in the strege/bbm interactions, but nothing else

i'm still feeling it regardless of that one uncertainty

[Sunwoo]

I'm pretty much with Manix. I do not like BBM's content and I think he is the scummiest. The only thing is his interactions with Strege later in the phase, which I need to reread closely before I can make a call on it and I keep being distracted by other things to make that reread. I find SB's absence suspicious and scorri's vote park on Blitz and subsequent inactivity suspicious. I would like Strider to get back here and explain what reads his reaction test garnered him.

[Kay]

I do not get what Kay meant by the trying to frame her for being a killer thing because I do not see how she would suspect there to be a killer. Care to explain how you came to the idea of the existence of the killer Kay?

What I meant was this. Rein wouldn't fake a guilty on me as scum, because if I was lynched and flipped town, he'd be next. It would be a one for one trade, which would be detrimental to scum. The only way I figured that would make sense, was if the mafia thought I was acting so scummy that I couldn't possibly be town, therefore supposing me to be the killer. So, while I think Rein's fakeclaim was dumb, I do not think it had scum intent.

In other words, I never said I thought there was a killer.

[BBM]

Ugh, sorry guys. I have to admit that I was waiting for other people to say stuff because I didn't really have anything to go on.

Also, a heads up, I will unfortunately be missing for most of the weekend, starting Friday afternoon. My family has decided to take an impromptu weekend trip (though it's not even a long weekend so ???).

I don't really like Boron's behaviour. If she feels I'm the scummiest, why isn't she voting for me? I can see that she felt she might have been tunneling, but it's possible to push SB and others while still keeping a vote on me. And her cases on Scorri and SB really come down to lurker prods. Scorri's vote isn't really a park since she hasn't posted since her initial vote other than to say that she had no time just then. And while I can see why she might be frustrated with SB, there isn't really anything to her vote there other than him being online but not feeling like posting. Her case on Rein is much more valid IMO, so the fact that she chose to go for an SB lurkerprod doesn't sit right with me.

Kay, Rein probably would have taken back the claim if it looked like you were about to be turboed before you could come on. I don't think that pulling a reaction test is automatically town, and he never bothered to follow up the test in any way. His play just doesn't feel like it normally does when he's town either, where he posts infrequently but at least attempts to produce content when he does.

D2 scumteam guess: Shin/Rapier, Boron, and Rein.

[Sunwoo]

I don't really like Boron's behaviour. If she feels I'm the scummiest, why isn't she voting for me? I can see that she felt she might have been tunneling, but it's possible to push SB and others while still keeping a vote on me. And her cases on Scorri and SB really come down to lurker prods. Scorri's vote isn't really a park since she hasn't posted since her initial vote other than to say that she had no time just then. And while I can see why she might be frustrated with SB, there isn't really anything to her vote there other than him being online but not feeling like posting. Her case on Rein is much more valid IMO, so the fact that she chose to go for an SB lurkerprod doesn't sit right with me.

D2 scumteam guess: Shin/Rapier, Boron, and Rein.

Yes, I COULD keep my vote on you, or I could also use it to encourage people to talk. Because let's face it, we're halfway into the phase. We have a LOT of scum hunting to be done. Even if I think you're the scummiest, I want to push other people I think may be scum. I am allowed to think you are the scummiest, but use my vote to make others talk if I feel it's just sitting on you accomplishing nothing. You can think it's suspicious all you want, but you're not reading the context.

Even if my "case" on scorri and SB is mostly lurker prodding, are you suggesting that I simply ignore them? When no one ELSE is prodding them either? They could be town, but they could ALSO be lurking scum and ignoring them isn't going to do us any good. Regardless of their alignments, their not participating in this game is hurting my ability to get a good read on them, plus their LACK of interactions with everyone gives me less material to use in my reads.

Voting and prodding lurkers isn't always taking the "easy way out".

[Shinori]

Okay so:

##Unvote:

##Vote: Rapier

Going over his iso made me not really like him.

Botes BBM - Responds to shin - Makes little scumhunting (Imo) - Votes strege with what looked like a fairly decent scum read I would assume - then just goes back to bbm vote right afterwards. Felt like he just sat on the tunneled bbm vote all day and it seemed like he was kind of trying to jump onto the strege wagon but then when he thought there might be a chance he could live he tried to push BBM again.

I know it's not a good post but it explains most of my thought process on Rapier's iso and stuff I think.

[BBM]

So tell me then, Boron, what are you going to do while you wait for them to respond to your prods?

[Sunwoo]

Go to sleep and then go to work in the morning/afternoon? It's three o' clock in the fucking morning and I've been working for hours. Hence why my vote is on SB and not anyone else I named in my paragraph -- because I KNOW he can get in here and give content while I'm not sure about the availability of the others?

Stop trying to make me look bad by implying I'm going to simply park my vote and do nothing in the meanwhile. It's not doing you any favors.

[Sunwoo]

And are you implying that it's impossible to scum hunt while pressure voting someone else? It's not like I can't move my vote if I see something suspicious, or focus on other people while having a vote somewhere else. You really do seem to be trying to make other people look bad to deflect the suspicion off you.

[Prims]

if kay hasnt posted real content by the end of today shes probably sk

[BBM]

And are you implying that it's impossible to scum hunt while pressure voting someone else? It's not like I can't move my vote if I see something suspicious, or focus on other people while having a vote somewhere else. You really do seem to be trying to make other people look bad to deflect the suspicion off you.

If it's impossible to scumhunt while voting someone else, why unvote me in the first place? Your reaction here to automatically make turn it back against me when I'm just attacking you doesn't look good at all. Any scumhunting is going to make other people look worse. I could say the exact same thing you're saying to me right now- you're deflecting suspicion off yourself by making me look bad. And in this case it's actually much more valid, because you're turning a defence of yourself into an attack against me, which I never did to you. What I said about you just making lurker prods had nothing to do with me, if you look.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Boron

Not happy with Shin, but I'm becoming increasingly sure that Boron is scum.

Personally I wouldn't claim 1-shot Vig as SK in this game. The SK gets a bunch of info about which roles are more abundant in the game and a sense of how strong the town is. I'd tie that into the claim somehow by picking a role that I know is unlikely to exist rather than just claiming Vig as SK.

[Grace]

BBM you just shot yourself in the foot with that post

If she feels I'm the scummiest, why isn't she voting for me? I can see that she felt she might have been tunneling, but it's possible to push SB and others while still keeping a vote on me.

Yes, I COULD keep my vote on you, or I could also use it to encourage people to talk. Because let's face it, we're halfway into the phase. We have a LOT of scum hunting to be done. Even if I think you're the scummiest, I want to push other people I think may be scum. I am allowed to think you are the scummiest, but use my vote to make others talk if I feel it's just sitting on you accomplishing nothing. You can think it's suspicious all you want, but you're not reading the context.

boron's response to your accusations is legit imo, it's well explained and yes it is possible to get pressure voting going instead of voteparking your biggest scumread all phase to the exclusion of others (tip: i'm pretty bad in that department)

So tell me then, Boron, what are you going to do while you wait for them to respond to your prods?

Oh gee I wonder BBM (hint: keep poking people regardless). That's a stupid question and you know it.

And are you implying that it's impossible to scum hunt while pressure voting someone else? It's not like I can't move my vote if I see something suspicious, or focus on other people while having a vote somewhere else. You really do seem to be trying to make other people look bad to deflect the suspicion off you.

is also a completely legit response to that. you are deflecting suspicion by making others look bad AND you immediately follow it up with:

If it's impossible to scumhunt while voting someone else, why unvote me in the first place?

exactly the same idea. now let's get to the fun part: boron NEVER implied that you couldn't scumhunt by leaving your vote there, it was an acknowledged possibility (iirc, and if not it's damn implied because people do it by default all the time), she decided to take another approach (which has it's own pros/cons). also re the bolded: what the heck does that have to do with anything? your point against boron is weak and completely unfounded here.

And in this case it's actually much more valid, because you're turning a defence of yourself into an attack against me, which I never did to you.

i'm going to put emphasis on this

If she feels I'm the scummiest, why isn't she voting for me? I can see that she felt she might have been tunneling, but it's possible to push SB and others while still keeping a vote on me.

If she feels I'm the scummiest, why isn't she voting for me? I can see that she felt she might have been tunneling, but it's possible to push SB and others while still keeping a vote on me.

If she feels I'm the scummiest, why isn't she voting for me? I can see that she felt she might have been tunneling, but it's possible to push SB and others while still keeping a vote on me.

let's delve into this again: you discredit her vote pattern to defend yourself that way (oh she isn't voting me so i'm not scummy to her anymore, or to that effect), THEN you push it back onto her with the aforementioned point about the pushing others while not moving votes

So tell me then, Boron, what are you going to do while you wait for them to respond to your prods?

also this is a further point to the discrediting argument and it still came before the starting quote of this paragraph (subtly undermine credibility)

why is it whenever you want to use an argument against someone that it's okay to do so but when others use it it's a big no-no? (and add on your overreact like heck when people call you out on it)

i really really really don't like what you're doing bbm, and i don't give a shit if i'm tunneling at this point because i'm pretty damn sure you're scum

[Grace]

ALSO IN CASE IT WASN'T STILL OBVIOUS

i'm townreading boron like a mofo, compounding with some interactions with strege

Looking through Boron's stuff a big part of it is pressuring people with low activity and attacking wagons, which could be scummy or not depending on what you think of the legitimacy of the wagons (which probably isn't a very reliable way to read people, come to think of it).

this is weak as heck reasoning for suspecting her and to me it doesn't read like a bus

[Tables]

Vote count 2.3 (Updated to post 366)

Rapier (3): Shin, Witch, Shinori

BBM (2): Kay, Manix

Kay (1): Serious Bananas

Cap'n Flint (1): Scorri

Liquid Snake (1): Cap'n Flint

Serious Bananas (1): Sangyul

Sangyul (1): BBM

Not voting (3): Rapier, Liquid Snake, Super Serious Gal

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is June 1st, 10:28pm GMT

Edited May 30, 2013 by Tables

[BBM]

Weak reasoning like that is what a bus can look like. It's a weak prod that doesn't really push or commit but looks good if she flips. Not every bus has to be a hard bus, and most aren't.

And no, Manix, when I say that Boron should be voting for her top scumread, that's not me defending myself. You're seeing things in my posts that aren't there. That's me attacking her. I'd say the same no matter who her top scumread was. I'm not trying to "subtly undermine her credibility". I'm trying to attack her. You always see this in my posts even when I'm town so idk.

Kind of disappointed you're so sure I'm scum that you're not looking at other options at all, because a) I don't think there's enough support for a lynch on me today, b) If I do get lynched at some point, you'll be left with nothing (which is why tunneling is bad even if you do it on scum), and c) You were my first townread

[Grace]

Weak reasoning like that is what a bus can look like. It's a weak prod that doesn't really push or commit but looks good if she flips. Not every bus has to be a hard bus, and most aren't.

and did you even read that I said I don't think it's a bus (it's literally right after it, hard to miss)

And no, Manix, when I say that Boron should be voting for her top scumread, that's not me defending myself. You're seeing things in my posts that aren't there. That's me attacking her. I'd say the same no matter who her top scumread was. I'm not trying to "subtly undermine her credibility". I'm trying to attack her. You always see this in my posts even when I'm town so idk.

you can say that that's not the intention but i'm looking behind your posts, looking for the scum intent. you're obviously going to argue against it, so I'm not swaying my opinion on it because i'm sure what you're doing is scum driven

Kind of disappointed you're so sure I'm scum that you're not looking at other options at all, because a) I don't think there's enough support for a lynch on me today,

time can change things, you know

b) If I do get lynched at some point, you'll be left with nothing (which is why tunneling is bad even if you do it on scum),

boohoo it's not like i can't figure stuff out later anyway

and c) You were my first townread

why the heck is this relevant at all? if it's trying to make me reconsider by trying to get on my good side it isn't working

[Grace]

also ftr i have deathtunneled scum before and it's worked incredibly well that i got nightkilled (schoolteacher), so it's not completely useless

[BBM]

I know you don't think it looks like a bus. That's why I stated I think it does look like a bus.

And c) is there because I'm disappointed that someone I've been townreading the entire game has been scumreading me the entire game. Geez stop overanalyzing everything. >_>

[Grace]

>overanalyzing

are you sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee? i don't think i'm doing enough tbh

also yes i'm aware i promised rereads on a number of people but it's late and i'm about to fall asleep

if i don't give reads/opinions on those people tomorrow PUSH ON ME FOR IT PLEASE

[charlie_]

First off, Tables, I think you're missing someone on the votals from a quick glance at the not voting section.

okay time to be not useless

Not really a big fan of Blitz right now. His early content is weird (although that's typical Blitz) and he keeps asking a lot of questions, especially in #68 and #73. In the latter, he just asks people to expand on their reads when he's only given one his own, and when Boron shows suspicion of him he just shoves it aside calling it a reaction test.

And then #349. Oh gosh that post. He says that he doesn't like BBM's wagon and Rein's inactivity, picking him out over me and a couple of others who also are kind of flailing in that regard. He calls Boron and Manix scummy for it. Then there's a bit of nightkill analysis, and asking SSG to out her target, but neither really contribute to scumhunting. Then he defends Kay, and comments on the masons. Still no more scumhunting there, then says he likes Prims' Rapier case, and then votes Rein despite the fact he's only talked about him being inactive and given no other reasons for it being scummy, or even why his inactivity is scummy.

Later he says the inactivity was why he hadn't expanded on his thoughts, but why does this make him scummy? I dunno why he was going for a pressure (presumably) vote here when he has other scumreads, but doesn't act on them. There's also no mention of his shifting opinion of Prims anywhere, aside from agreeing him on a point against Rapier Rapier.

##Unvote

##Vote: Cap'n Flint

Also those last few posts are just cementing town!BBM into my head. Wouldn't mind lynching Rapier for his weird voting last phase, and he really needs to get in here and do something (says the hypocrite.)

[scorri]

Personally I wouldn't claim 1-shot Vig as SK in this game. The SK gets a bunch of info about which roles are more abundant in the game and a sense of how strong the town is. I'd tie that into the claim somehow by picking a role that I know is unlikely to exist rather than just claiming Vig as SK.

Where'd you get that Kay claimed 1-shot Vig?

Hi, I'm here, reading through stuff, this just pinged my radar on my first skim because, if you go look, Kay claimed vig. That's all. Now, either you know more, in which case, please do share how you know more as a claimed vanilla, or you're basing that assumption off her not shooting last night which a) you don't know if she didn't and b) isn't a safe assumption due to not shooting as town vig isn't the worst decision in the world. I think that Kay was right to not specify which, and I find it odd that you assumed.

[Sunwoo]

Hi, I'm not really here at the moment.

And are you implying that it's impossible to scum hunt while pressure voting someone else? It's not like I can't move my vote if I see something suspicious, or focus on other people while having a vote somewhere else.

If it's impossible to scumhunt while voting someone else, why unvote me in the first place?

How on Earth did you take my post and get the exact OPPOSITE of what I had said?

This reeks of serious misrep, BBM, and your attack on me is rather hypocritical. As Manix pointed out, you DID try to make me look bad by immediately saying, "oh Boron unvoted me although I was her biggest scum read" without even reading the context of that unvote. Your "what are you going to do in the meantime while you wait for SB to respond" also reads like you implying that I'm going to simply vote park on him and do nothing in the meantime. Why ELSE would you say it unless you're trying to make someone look bad? You also completely misinterpreted my quoted post so badly it's not even funny and then wrote a big paragraph about how I'm "deflecting attacks to make you look bad", never mind that you yourself did it to me first.

So tell me, why am I scum?

SB, why do BBM's last posts cement him as town in your mind? I'm not buying it unless you give an actual explanation as to why. If you think he's town so badly, what do you think about Manix and me, and why aren't you trying to convince us otherwise that he's not scum? What are your thoughts on Prims or Shin or Strider or things that have happened?

Prims, can you do something useful other than making scattered 1-line remarks? What are your reads on stuff that's been happening since your last content post?

@scorri: I actually did not pick up on BBM saying that, which is rather interesting. Why did you assume that Kay was a 1-shot vig?

Strider, get back here. What are your reads following your "reaction test" and who do you think is scum now?